Why is racism unfair?

[Professor.Arturo]

Ok, this is a serious non-trolling question

 

You can make fun or jokes about the Scots and Jews (being mean) or the English, or the Yanks, or the Irish etc. Everyone laughs (mostly) even in Scotland its acceptable to make fun of, or racist jokes about Lithuanians, as well as other races and nobody bats an eyelid.

 

Make a joke about a Pakistani, muslim, African etc......and suddenly you can be the devil incarnate!

 

Who came up with the list? the list that says its ok to make fun of these guys over here, but you cant make fun of those guys over there. Like a section A and a section B.

 

I am not talking about JKB, but society in general, why are some races/religions fair game...and others are taboo?

[Pete Seeger]

Racism has no place in society. But some people are far too easily offended in my opinion and jump to conclusions as soon as you mention the word black. Some of it is just so hypocritical.

[John Findlay]

When I was a bairn growing up in Royston Mains Place in the late 60s and early 70s I played outside in the street with my American cousins. Nothing unusual you may think except for the fact that they were black Americans.

 

Here is the thing. We didnt notice. We honestly did not give a jot for the colour of their skin. They were bairns we were bairns and we just played as bairns did in those days.

 

The someone, who I have no idea came up with the CRE. Commission for race equality. I believe this has caused more racism than it ever solved/stopped.

To me the CRE told black people they were different and because this message kept getting rammed down their throats they started to believe it.

When in fact they are not different not different at all.

 

Racism is unfair and always will be.

 

 

 

 

John

[Professor.Arturo]

Remember before the PC days? the older members will remember a tv show called the Comediens.

 

Frank Carson (Irish) used to tell a string of Irish jokes.

 

Remember Charlie Williams? he told all the black jokes......he was black!

 

But your right, too many people nowadays are looking for a reason to be offended.......just ask that Danish cartoonist.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Remember before the PC days? the older members will remember a tv show called the Comediens.

 

Frank Carson (Irish) used to tell a string of Irish jokes.

 

Remember Charlie Williams? he told all the black jokes......he was black!

 

But your right, too many people nowadays are looking for a reason to be offended.......just ask that Danish cartoonist.

 

I've seen Charlie Williams twice and he was a very funny guy, and your spot on about him joking about people his own colour.

 

How would Alf Garnett go down these days?

[jambo121]

Racism has no place in society. But some people are far too easily offended in my opinion and jump to conclusions as soon as you mention the word black. Some of it is just so hypocritical.

 

I think that comment is very naive and slightly worrying. Mention the word Black followed by something derogatory then you may have a problem but mention the word Black on its own as a reference to a group of people, then its quite acceptable, please don't use the word COLOURED though.

 

In reference to your jokes Ratcatcher I'm sure you will find it difficult to get away with a derogatory Mick or Jock joke on TV nowadays. Most of the jokes which are towards ethnic groups are extreme generalisations, lack a lot of intelligence and appeal to peoples prejudices hence why they are unacceptable.

[The Doctor]

There are current comedians who tell what could be deemed racist jokes, Jimmy Carr tells many about gypsies, Chris Rock has a whole set about 'niggers'.

 

If you put 'world's most offensive joke' into you tube you'll get loads of them.

[hughesie27]

There are current comedians who tell what could be deemed racist jokes, Jimmy Carr tells many about gypsies, Chris Rock has a whole set about 'niggers'.

 

If you put 'world's most offensive joke' into you tube you'll get loads of them.

Can a joke be rascist if told by a person of that ethinticity(sp)?

[The Doctor]

Can a joke be rascist if told by a person of that ethinticity(sp)?

 

I don't see what difference it makes.

 

I'd say a racist joke is one which ridicules someone because of their race, stereotypes them, or makes them appear inferior in some way.

 

Context is key though. I don't find Jimmy Carr or Jerry Sadowitz offensive at all, but Roy 'Chubby' Brown disgusts me.

 

I think it's all about irony.

[hughesie27]

I agree with you about RCB but if your mate or anyone of Scottish origin called you a Jock in an inferior manner would you be offended by its rascism?

Would your opinion on it being a rascist remark differ if it was spoken from the mouth of a 'Scottish pakistani'. I'm sure you know what i mean by that comment it's jsut a bit hard for me to put it in correct terms.

[The Doctor]

I agree with you about RCB but if your mate or anyone of Scottish origin called you a Jock in an inferior manner would you be offended by its rascism?

Would your opinion on it being a rascist remark differ if it was spoken from the mouth of a 'Scottish pakistani'. I'm sure you know what i mean by that comment it's jsut a bit hard for me to put it in correct terms.

 

I dislike the term 'Jock', I've only ever heard irritating English rugger types use it and they're all self-abusing half wits.

 

It would bother me less if a Scotsman used it, regardless of their ethnicity, but honestly Hughsie it's such an unlikely scenario, I can't really get my head round it!

 

I love hearing Pakistanis speaking with broad Scots accents, ala Navid in Still Game. Comedy gold.

[hughesie27]

I dislike the term 'Jock', I've only ever heard irritating English rugger types use it and they're all self-abusing half wits.

 

It would bother me less if a Scotsman used it, regardless of their ethnicity, but honestly Hughsie it's such an unlikely scenario, I can't really get my head round it!

 

I love hearing Pakistanis speaking with broad Scots accents, ala Navid in Still Game. Comedy gold.

Certainly not suggesting anything. Just showing it's hard to draw the line.

[Sheriff Fatman]

How would Alf Garnett go down these days?

 

Probably quite well given that Alf Garnet was always meant to be a parody of racism, it's just the racists were too thick to realise.

[Sheriff Fatman]

Frank Carson (Irish) used to tell a string of Irish jokes.

 

He still does and you can't get the bugger to shut up if you meet him. It's just a shame that his jokes are as unfunny now as they were then.

[Tazio]

This is more interesting to me as it comes a few days after a thread about the BNP started by the same poster.

[K1874M]

I don't see what difference it makes.

 

I'd say a racist joke is one which ridicules someone because of their race, stereotypes them, or makes them appear inferior in some way.

 

Context is key though. I don't find Jimmy Carr or Jerry Sadowitz offensive at all, but Roy 'Chubby' Brown disgusts me.

 

I think it's all about irony.

 

Racisms only an issue when it offends.... not all racism offends.

[tynie1874]

if u mention the word polish people taking our jobs thats racist i myself speak alot about polish people and there doings-wrong, and i get told by lots of people that it's racist when i clearly would'nt think it would be.

[Professor.Arturo]

This is more interesting to me as it comes a few days after a thread about the BNP started by the same poster.

I thought that might get picked up on, so to clear it up before we go on.

 

1. The other thread, I made my views clear that I would not like them in power, or any of the thugs that follow them.

 

2. As for this thread its different. Its all about comedy, and all but the most PC comedians will offend someone.

 

I loved Dave Allen, a lot of his stuff nowadays would be deemed sectarian by a certain section. Does it make him any less funny?

[Ibrahim Tall]

But your right, too many people nowadays are looking for a reason to be offended.......just ask that Danish cartoonist.

 

The cartoons were ****e, and pretty offensive. I'm not even Muslim and i can still see why some were annoyed even if the actions that followed were extreme to say the least.

[John Findlay]

I thought that might get picked up on, so to clear it up before we go on.

 

1. The other thread, I made my views clear that I would not like them in power, or any of the thugs that follow them.

 

2. As for this thread its different. Its all about comedy, and all but the most PC comedians will offend someone.

 

I loved Dave Allen, a lot of his stuff nowadays would be deemed sectarian by a certain section. Does it make him any less funny?

 

Dave Allen in my eyes was one of the funniest comedians ever.

 

 

 

 

John

[doctor jambo]

Humour should be excused from the Racist tag

It is there to make people laugh- even the racists

People take themselves too darn seriously these days

It is hard to think of a successul comedian who does not poke fun about something- hair colour, weight, gender, occupation, race, nationality, religion

If everyone would get off their high horse and JOIN IN we would all be a lot happier and contented

The "racist" tag attatched to Kevin Bloody Wilson and RCB is merely people who lack the intelligence to respond in a similar manner

There is a big difference between cracking a stereotype joke and shouting racist abuse at someone

[jack D and coke]

Funny how everybody can slag gingers off but fart in the general direction of a black/pakistani and your up sh*te creek. If someone called me a white b*stard i'd think i needed a to get myself out in the sun a bit more. Everybody is far too easily offended nowadays. Its like those football fans who shout and swear and abuse players for 90 minutes then the player flicks the fingers at them they report them to stewards. Knobends. And as for those big girls blouse black players who play the race card everytime they get involved in some controversy they really get on my t*ts. Grow up!

[Say What Again]

I love the advert that this thread has generated at the top of the page

[Toggie88]

I agree that racism has no place in society. However, by being so tough on racism it has actually caused more racism. Like John Findlay said, as kids you don't notice. It's only when you get older and you get it drummed into you that racism is wrong you actually begin to notice.

 

South Park, while not being the most PC cartoon actually had a really good episode a while back. Chef (the only black character) wanted to change the towns flag - which was a bunch of white stick men hanging a black stick men. The community was split, some wanted to keep it as it was tradition and others seen it as racist and wanted it changed.

 

Stan and Kyle (two 8 year olds) wanted to keep the flag. It didn't come out until the end that they thought that the reason people wanted the flag changed is because it showed violenve. It never even dawned on them that one character was black and the others were white.

 

I thought it was a very good message. It's something that happens in society all the time.

 

I went to a RC Primary School, next door to a ND school. We didn't know in the first few years of school that we were segregated due to religion. It was just a different school.

[The Doctor]

Humour should be excused from the Racist tag

It is there to make people laugh- even the racists

People take themselves too darn seriously these days

It is hard to think of a successul comedian who does not poke fun about something- hair colour, weight, gender, occupation, race, nationality, religion

If everyone would get off their high horse and JOIN IN we would all be a lot happier and contented

The "racist" tag attatched to Kevin Bloody Wilson and RCB is merely people who lack the intelligence to respond in a similar manner

There is a big difference between cracking a stereotype joke and shouting racist abuse at someone

 

Yeah that's right Roy 'Chubby' Brown is in no way a vile misogynist wife beater who believes the repulsive jokes he tells, I must be of of such low intelligence not to have realised it before now.

 

M'on the wife beaters!

 

Idiotic statement.

[doctor jambo]

Yeah that's right Roy 'Chubby' Brown is in no way a vile misogynist wife beater who believes the repulsive jokes he tells, I must be of of such low intelligence not to have realised it before now.

 

M'on the wife beaters!

 

Idiotic statement.

 

I have no idea if the jokes he tells are in any way representative of his views or not

he is showbiz, a performer earning a living by pandering to a sector of society ( all beit a pretty crass one)

He has the right to talk about whatever he wishes, and if you dont find it funny, dont listen

Some of his stuff is pretty amusing

As I pointed out, nearly all comedy is offensive to someone, otherwise you end up with bland, boring comedy

All the greatest comedy was racist/offensive

Porridge had "black Jock" etc

Get over it

[deesidejambo]

Ok, this is a serious non-trolling question

 

You can make fun or jokes about the Scots and Jews (being mean) or the English, or the Yanks, or the Irish etc. Everyone laughs (mostly) even in Scotland its acceptable to make fun of, or racist jokes about Lithuanians, as well as other races and nobody bats an eyelid.

 

Make a joke about a Pakistani, muslim, African etc......and suddenly you can be the devil incarnate!

 

Who came up with the list? the list that says its ok to make fun of these guys over here, but you cant make fun of those guys over there. Like a section A and a section B.

 

I am not talking about JKB, but society in general, why are some races/religions fair game...and others are taboo?

 

 

Its because some cultures are mature enough that they can take a joke, whereas other cultures are insecure and sensitive to their own behaviours, in which case any criticism in the form of humour can strike at their own insecurities.

[stew mc]

Dave Allen in my eyes was one of the funniest comedians ever.

 

 

 

 

John

 

...and may your God go with you!!

[i8hibsh]

What gets me is that when you think of a racist [and i'm pretty sure I call this right]we think of a white male.

 

why is this?

 

I can assure each and everyone of you there are as many non white racists than whites.

 

Robert Mugabe for instance is a vile racist pig. But noone ever tags him as a racist.

 

I also strongly believe that every single adult human being has a racist opinion or thought (although I am sure the JKB god squad will profess otherwise)

 

This does not make you racist - it makes you human

[Walter Payton]

Its because some cultures are mature enough that they can take a joke, whereas other cultures are insecure and sensitive to their own behaviours, in which case any criticism in the form of humour can strike at their own insecurities.

 

Could be true- but could it also be argued that respect is an idea so foriegn to our culture nowadays that disrespect doesn't cause the shock that it does in other cultures? Maybe this isn't a case of them being "insecure" or "insensitive" but more a case of something we're lacking.

 

A good example of this would be "mother" jokes. In other cultures the mother figure is so revered and respected that nobody would dare insult their own or somebody elses mother (and in times not so long ago the same could be said here). In our culture if you were to show anger at somebody disrespecting your mother, you'd be labelled "over-sensitive" and "unable to take a joke".

[Rick Grimes]

As The Doctor says, context is king in these kind of discussions.

 

As for the original question as to why its more acceptable to make jokes about Scots, Welsh, Gingers etc - you can't underestimate the fact that jokes about those groups have a vastly different weight than those about ethnic minorities in this country. The former has centuries of history behind it & has approached, if not completely become, regional banter. Jokes about those who, at best, have two or three generations of history in this country are instrinsically different as they're too often still rooted in or delivered in a "send them back" or "if they don't like it, they can leave" context.

 

If a family has been here for 2-3 generations then to deny they're just as British, or Scottish, is ridiculous, but that perception still exists.

 

Neither is really acceptable, at least if meant with genuine venom, but to deny that there's a difference is to ignore the facts.

 

Personally, I reckon EVERYTHING is up for humour as long as the jokes remain jokes & don't have an underlying motivation.

[Rick Grimes]

What gets me is that when you think of a racist [and i'm pretty sure I call this right]we think of a white male.

 

why is this?

 

I can assure each and everyone of you there are as many non white racists than whites.

 

Because as a straight, white male, aged 18-50 you've little to fear in terms of the effects of such obvious racism or prejudice.

 

Robert Mugabe for instance is a vile racist pig. But noone ever tags him as a racist.

 

I also strongly believe that every single adult human being has a racist opinion or thought (although I am sure the JKB god squad will profess otherwise)

 

This does not make you racist - it makes you human

 

100% correct. Mugabe in particular should be called out more for this.

[Hen Broon]

 

I am not talking about JKB, but society in general, why are some races/religions fair game...and others are taboo?

 

 

Didn't someone get huckled a few years ago for calling John Hartson a fat Welsh barsteward?

[DikT.]

I have been racially abused many times here. Does it worry me? Not particularly. You walk outside you are oyibo which mean white person. If I called someone in our beloved country black man to his face then I would be deemed racist.

[Rick Grimes]

I have been racially abused many times here. Does it worry me? Not particularly. You walk outside you are oyibo which mean white person. If I called someone in our beloved country black man to his face then I would be deemed racist.

 

 

only by the most over-sensitive of people.

[Boris]

Why is racism unfair?

 

Surely by definition, no?

[Ibrahim Tall]

Didn't someone get huckled a few years ago for calling John Hartson a fat Welsh barsteward?

 

It was Bellamy i'm sure. Think it was during the semi final?

[DikT.]

only by the most over-sensitive of people.

 

I happen to agree, but can you imagine the outrage there would be if I shouted out in the street " Hey black man"?

[Bindy Badgy]

Didn't someone get huckled a few years ago for calling John Hartson a fat Welsh barsteward?

 

I think it was Craig Bellamy the abuse was aimed at.

[doctor jambo]

[QUOTE=jam tartan;356731]Because as a straight, white male, aged 18-50 you've little to fear in terms of the effects of such obvious racism or prejudice.

 

 

100% correct. Mugabe in particular should be called out more for this.

 

Unless you want to be a policeman/fireman/ work for the racial equlity board or even want to be an MP/MSP (all woman short lists)

IN these jobs state sanctioned descrimination seems to be fine in the name of ,erm, equality.

You either discriminate against NOBODY for ANY reason, or you give up this pretence at equality, all it does is brew resentment and feed the racists ammunition

[Say What Again]

Didn't someone get huckled a few years ago for calling John Hartson a fat Welsh barsteward?

 

He went to court and was found guilty of racially-aggravated breach of the peace.

 

Though, as others have said, Bellamy was the target and not Hartson.

 

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/scotland/Fan-fined-for-racism-after.2659825.jp

[269miles]

I have been racially abused many times here. Does it worry me? Not particularly. You walk outside you are oyibo which mean white person. If I called someone in our beloved country black man to his face then I would be deemed racist.[/QUOTE]

 

I worked with a Sikh who was highly offended if you called him black. For him it was the ultimate insult , worse than being called '****.'

Another workmate used to call him '****' just to wind him up. Or he did until the guy snapped and called him the 'N word'.

 

I also work with Sikhs at the moment : a never ending source of racist jokes about Muslims.

[Rick Grimes]

[QUOTE=jam tartan']Because as a straight, white male, aged 18-50 you've little to fear in terms of the effects of such obvious racism or prejudice.

 

 

100% correct. Mugabe in particular should be called out more for this.

 

Unless you want to be a policeman/fireman/ work for the racial equlity board or even want to be an MP/MSP (all woman short lists)

IN these jobs state sanctioned descrimination seems to be fine in the name of ,erm, equality.

You either discriminate against NOBODY for ANY reason, or you give up this pretence at equality, all it does is brew resentment and feed the racists ammunition

 

 

 

positive discrimination is very, very rarely used in this country. if you believe the tabloids, its every second day.

 

whether or not its a good idea is another argument altogether... its one i'm split on with myself

[DikT.]

I have been racially abused many times here. Does it worry me? Not particularly. You walk outside you are oyibo which mean white person. If I called someone in our beloved country black man to his face then I would be deemed racist.[/QUOTE]

 

I worked with a Sikh who was highly offended if you called him black. For him it was the ultimate insult ' date=' worse than being called '****.'

Another workmate used to call him '****' just to wind him up. Or he did until the guy snapped and called him the 'N word'.

 

I also work with Sikhs at the moment : a never ending source of racist jokes about Muslims.[/quote']

 

 

And that is where I am coming from. It is OK for people of every other race and nationality and religion to take the mickey out of others. Only in this country do we seem to be hyper sensitive and too worried about offending people. If they are offended let them **** off back to their own country. I guess this will now spark the debate that this is their country. Fine, abide by our laws and cultures.

[Rick Grimes]

I worked with a Sikh who was highly offended if you called him black. For him it was the ultimate insult , worse than being called '****.'

Another workmate used to call him '****' just to wind him up. Or he did until the guy snapped and called him the 'N word'.

 

I also work with Sikhs at the moment : a never ending source of racist jokes about Muslims.

 

 

i could see why he might get a bit angry about that. its not particularly accurate and demonstrates a fair bit of a lumping together of everyone non-white.

 

i'm guessing by your tone tho that he may have had other reasons for not liking it...

[Mark_Mywords]

I happen to agree, but can you imagine the outrage there would be if I shouted out in the street " Hey black man"?

 

I remember the days when you could buy a 'black man' from the icy.

[this_is_my_story]

He went to court and was found guilty of racially-aggravated breach of the peace.

 

Though, as others have said, Bellamy was the target and not Hartson.

 

 

This is an example of crazy things have become.

 

The 'guilty' party has referred to Bellamy as "a wee Welsh b*stard".

His preferred insult was the word 'b*stard', and Bellamy, evidently, is Welsh.

This quote from the article:

 

Mr McSporran then asked what would have happened had a fan abused Bellamy's ex-team-mates John Hartson by calling him "a fat b*****d" or Neil Lennon "a ginger b*****d".

 

The PC said he would have told off the person involved - but would not have arrested him or her as that was not deemed an offence.

-----------------------------------------------------

Oh, but wouldn't it have been 'weightist' if he'd said that about Hartson? Or

if he had called Lennon "a ginger b*stard", he'd be guilty of 'hairism' would he not??

 

What's also hilarious, and makes a complete mockery of this, is that Bonar has been convicted of racially abusing Bellamy, yet the Welsh are the same race as Scots! We are both caucasian white in terms of race. So, racist it most certainly is not - xenophobic, maybe, but not racist.

 

Just goes to show how political correctness carries way too much weight, and those who are sucked in by it just simply can't think for themselves.

[Denny Crane]

if u mention the word polish people taking our jobs thats racist i myself speak alot about polish people and there doings-wrong, and i get told by lots of people that it's racist when i clearly would'nt think it would be.

 

 

OK. As someone who has Polish roots within my mother's side of the family (and reasonably qualified to evaluate your words on Poles), maybe you can provide a sample of your monologue and I can deem as to whether or not it offends?

[The Doctor]

My favourite racism story concerns Poles and happened to me in conversation with a service user at the homeless drop-in I run.

 

This guy started to slag off "the Poles", for coming here, taking our jobs (no, honest, no hint of irony) taking our houses, benefits, food, women, anything he could think of. It was just a rant really, peppered with four letter words and derogatory terms.

 

I pulled him up and told him to hang on a minute, Poles historically are very close to Scots, I said. Culturally they're very similar, racially they're closer to us than most other European nations, we're like cousins. They fought with us against the Nazis, many settled here after WWII, there's a long history of connection between Scotland and Poland.

 

He paused for a moment, thought about what I'd said and replied, "Yeah, that's right, my Grandad was a Pole"!

 

That sums up the idiocy of racism for me, ignorant, thoughtless, stupidity.

[Boab Mugabe]

What gets me is that when you think of a racist [and i'm pretty sure I call this right]we think of a white male.

 

why is this?

 

I can assure each and everyone of you there are as many non white racists than whites.

 

Robert Mugabe for instance is a vile racist pig. But noone ever tags him as a racist.

 

I also strongly believe that every single adult human being has a racist opinion or thought (although I am sure the JKB god squad will profess otherwise)

 

This does not make you racist - it makes you human

 

Boab is a good Hearts man. Regular face at aways.