Coronavirus Super Thread ( merged )

[JudyJudyJudy]

49 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Ferguson predicted 44k deaths in Sweden by the start of May, without a lockdown.  In the event, there were 2500ish. 

Imagine that Ferguson on “ countdown “ doing the numerical sums lol 

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Nope I felt the lockdown was the right thing to do , albeit a week or so earlier . How ever u think That most experts would think again about another lockdown due to the harm it would do , which me and  Co others have  already mentioned . It’s a balancing act . I doubt very much that the general population could stand another lockdown if there was a second wave ( there won’t be ) . So if you feel safer living in your house so be it , I am out and about now and enjoying myself and feeling less anxious , more happy and relaxed . 

 

I have never been living in the house from the outset, nor feeling unsafe. I actually give it little thought aside from taking an interest in reading some of the science as I do many science topics.

It is what it is. I have led a reckless life and should probably have already been dead several times over. If this gets me it gets me. But I don't expect everyone else to be so fatalistic.

And if I had to stay in the house for the safety of others I would.

[JFK-1]

2 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Imagine that Ferguson on “ countdown “ doing the numerical sums lol 

 

He's for some reason fixated on a Ferguson. The head researcher on the study was actually a Dr Seth Flaxman. And there were 18 of them working on it. Presumably all had their own fag packet.

[Pasquale for King]

1 minute ago, JamesM48 said:

Imagine that Ferguson on “ countdown “ doing the numerical sums lol 

5545 deaths from 76k cases compared to 2490 deaths and 18k cases here with double the population. Soft lockdown didn’t work really. 

[Governor Tarkin]

Flaxman could do his sums on a Rizla packet.

[JFK-1]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

5545 deaths from 76k cases compared to 2490 deaths and 18k cases here with double the population. Soft lockdown didn’t work really. 

 

You're right, it didn't.
 

Quote

As of May 15, Sweden had a per capita death rate of 35 in every 100,000 people, which is significantly higher than the corresponding figures in Denmark, Finland, and Norway, which were 9.3, 5.2, and 4.7, respectively.

 

[Enzo Chiefo]

9 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Imagine that Ferguson on “ countdown “ doing the numerical sums lol 

Up against Diane Abbott. Would be a close game👍

[Enzo Chiefo]

18 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'll ignore the sidestep.

 

The figures you quoted to prove he's talking shit were figures to show what would happen if we didn't lock down, correct?

No sidestep. We can't un-lockdown. We did so we can't undo that. The closest example was Sweden where they didn't. They applied his figures as I mentioned. They looked at them and discarded them. Nobody in their right mind expected 80% of the UK population to become infected. That's what his figures were based on.

[JFK-1]

19 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I'll ignore the sidestep.

 

The figures you quoted to prove he's talking shit were figures to show what would happen if we didn't lock down, correct?

 

You know as well as I do you're never going to get a shred of sense out of it. It has now declared i'm a closet Trump fan. And you as a contributor to the Trump thread know how laughable that is.

[Fxxx the SPFL]

FWIW my take on this is i don't think there will be another lockdown even if cases/deaths go up drastically in the winter the main reason being the economy is fecked at present and is likely to take two/three/four years to recover allegedly if you beleive the media.

If we go into another lockdown there will be more and more redundancies, companies closing down etc. we have a stark choice having an economy or more significant deaths. There would be thousands more people out of work with no hope of a job for years to come with a further lockdown which is why we have to reduce the number of coronavirus cases to as small an amount as possible (which we are doing gradually) then just try and get on with life as best as possible open everything back up all businesses/travel etc all imo of course.

[Unknown user]

16 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

No sidestep. We can't un-lockdown. We did so we can't undo that. The closest example was Sweden where they didn't. They applied his figures as I mentioned. They looked at them and discarded them. Nobody in their right mind expected 80% of the UK population to become infected. That's what his figures were based on.

 

We have no idea what would have happened, this is a very different country from Sweden, and we still have no idea why some countries or even some people are hit much worse than others.

 

Epidemiologists make estimates based on a bunch of fairly pessimistic assumptions, its what they do, and there are so many variables. It's what they have to do, the worst thing they could ever do is under estimate. 

And then people come along, all grumpy at being locked up and outraged that They couldn't accurately tell the future and misrepresenting/misunderstanding what's happened and why.

 

This is a disease we don't know or understand, it's starting to come out that some who survive may have suffered brain damage, some may never be able to breathe the same again. It isn't just about x thousand died, we still don't know what it is or what the long term effects are.

It's absolutely right to be cautious and to protect the vulnerable, whoever they are.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Smithee

[JudyJudyJudy]

27 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

5545 deaths from 76k cases compared to 2490 deaths and 18k cases here with double the population. Soft lockdown didn’t work really. 

Sorry which countries are you comparing. ? 

[Enzo Chiefo]

20 minutes ago, JFK-1 said:

 

You know as well as I do you're never going to get a shred of sense out of it. It has now declared i'm a closet Trump fan. And you as a contributor to the Trump thread know how laughable that is.

😂😄. You're great entertainment if nothing else. I KNOW you're not a Trump fan ...I ridiculed you for name checking him so often a few days ago.  And IT??😂😂. Unless you"re one of those woke gender neutral pronoun obsessives ..is yet another belter.  Well worth the admission money😁

[Jambo 4 Ever]

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

😂😄. You're great entertainment if nothing else. I KNOW you're not a Trump fan ...I ridiculed you for name checking him so often a few days ago.  And IT??😂😂. Unless you"re one of those woke gender neutral pronoun obsessives ..is yet another belter.  Well worth the admission money😁

TBF everyone needs to stand down a bit, we're all good jambos here 

[Enzo Chiefo]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

TBF everyone needs to stand down a bit, we're all good jambos here 

Well said Smithee👍

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Well said Smithee👍

👍

 

[JFK-1]

9 minutes ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

😂😄. You're great entertainment if nothing else. I KNOW you're not a Trump fan ...I ridiculed you for name checking him so often a few days ago.  And IT??😂😂. Unless you"re one of those woke gender neutral pronoun obsessives ..is yet another belter.  Well worth the admission money😁

 

So people who respect the views of experts rather than the unqualified uneducated babbling of non experts are "great entertainment?"

I'm guessing you live in a fantasy   reality of hysterical entertainment morning to night since the vast majority of sane people do respect the views of the experts over those of something like you.

As for woke gender shite I couldn't give the proverbial flying. You're an 'it' in terms of being a low quality conspiracy wacko.

In fact exactly the mind of wacko who follow the wacko Trump and his science denial conspiracy mongering. He's like you, too stupid to know what he doesn't know. 

[Pasquale for King]

50 minutes ago, JamesM48 said:

Sorry which countries are you comparing. ? 

Sweden and Scotland, they had over 4 times the cases we’ve had, over double the deaths with only twice the population. 

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Enzo Chiefo said:

Up against Diane Abbott. Would be a close game👍

I think they would beat that horrible **** Patel though or any other of the Tory government who’s counting of tests or deaths leave a lot to be desired.

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, JFK-1 said:

 

You're right, it didn't.
 

 

Thanks, actual numbers don’t lie. 

[Ainsley Harriott]

2 hours ago, Willie Hamilton genius said:

Ferguson predicted. 400,000 deaths of mad cow disease

There were less than 5000

He has similar stats for at least 2 other pandemics, so your point is what?

Hes a pesemistic fellow

[Pasquale for King]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

We have no idea what would have happened, this is a very different country from Sweden, and we still have no idea why some countries or even some people are hit much worse than others.

 

Epidemiologists make estimates based on a bunch of fairly pessimistic assumptions, its what they do, and there are so many variables. It's what they have to do, the worst thing they could ever do is under estimate. 

And then people come along, all grumpy at being locked up and outraged that They couldn't accurately tell the future and misrepresenting/misunderstanding what's happened and why.

 

This is a disease we don't know or understand, it's starting to come out that some who survive may have suffered brain damage, some may never be able to breathe the same again. It isn't just about x thousand died, we still don't know what it is or what the long term effects are.

It's absolutely right to be cautious and to protect the vulnerable, whoever they are.

Yet BJ seems fine, well not any worse, it’s like he maybe didn’t have it 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Pasquale for King said:

Yet BJ seems fine, well not any worse, it’s like he maybe didn’t have it 🤔🤷🏾‍♂️?

 

Would we be able to tell if he was brain damaged?

[Pasquale for King]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Would we be able to tell if he was brain damaged?

Fair point, I’m still trying to find out who cuts his hair so I can make sure I don’t go there. 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

We have no idea what would have happened, this is a very different country from Sweden, and we still have no idea why some countries or even some people are hit much worse than others.

 

Epidemiologists make estimates based on a bunch of fairly pessimistic assumptions, its what they do, and there are so many variables. It's what they have to do, the worst thing they could ever do is under estimate. 

And then people come along, all grumpy at being locked up and outraged that They couldn't accurately tell the future and misrepresenting/misunderstanding what's happened and why.

 

This is a disease we don't know or understand, it's starting to come out that some who survive may have suffered brain damage, some may never be able to breathe the same again. It isn't just about x thousand died, we still don't know what it is or what the long term effects are.

It's absolutely right to be cautious and to protect the vulnerable, whoever they are.

 

you know for a fact that the assumptions were pessimistic? plenty modelling is done with best estimates with some allowance - it’s not always the best course of action to use pessimistic assumptions

 

it’s unlikely that two countries/data sets will be exactly the same with all the same characteristics or regions within a country for that matter which pretty much makes all modelling redundant and fall into the we’d never know what would have really happened category

 

i don’t know if Sweden is significantly different to Scotland to invalidate using the similar (very basic) model being discussed - you seem to infer you do know - I doubt you do

 

such a basic model with the factor so far out would suggest there is absolutely massive differences in the two - real fundamental stuff - maybe there is - would be good to hear what they are how you would classify their impact 

 

correct about out the newness of the disease - one thing we do know about it with a fair degree of confidence is frankly the only thing the authorities needed to know and the key reason of lockdown - that’s why they’re bashing on with trying to repair the economy and accepting the covid risks which come with that (not saying I agree or disagree with this course of action but it’s understandable)

 

 

 

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

you know for a fact that the assumptions were pessimistic? plenty modelling is done with best estimates with some allowance - it’s not always the best course of action to use pessimistic assumptions

 

it’s unlikely that two countries/data sets will be exactly the same with all the same characteristics or regions within a country for that matter which pretty much makes all modelling redundant and fall into the we’d never know what would have really happened category

 

i don’t know if Sweden is significantly different to Scotland to invalidate using the similar (very basic) model being discussed - you seem to infer you do know - I doubt you do

 

such a basic model with the factor so far out would suggest there is absolutely massive differences in the two - real fundamental stuff - maybe there is - would be good to hear what they are how you would classify their impact 

 

correct about out the newness of the disease - one thing we do know about it with a fair degree of confidence is frankly the only thing the authorities needed to know and the key reason of lockdown - that’s why they’re bashing on with trying to repair the economy and accepting the covid risks which come with that (not saying I agree or disagree with this course of action but it’s understandable)

 

 

I know very little about epidemiology or the methods used by those who've been experts in the subject for decades but yes, from what I've read the question these guys are answering in these type of circumstances is usually "How bad could it be?"

[JFK-1]

44 minutes ago, Pasquale for King said:

Thanks, actual numbers don’t lie. 

 

And aside from having a considerably higher rate of deaths than their Nordic neighbours who went into lockdown it's not the case that they did nothing at all.

Among other  things they issued guidelines instructing people to practice strict social distancing and banned gatherings of more than 50. The major difference is that they advised pretty much the same things everybody else did. But unlike others didn't enforce it.

And it appears they may have a largely obedient population. A quote from a Swedish government minister.
 

Quote

“The Swedish government took very strict measures against COVID-19. The government took these measures by asking the public to follow them, not by imposing bans,” said Linde.
 

“For example, we advised everybody should stay at home on the Easter. 96% of people followed it. Therefore, the government is acting with suggestions, not prohibitions,” she added.

Some media outlets make it look “like everyone in Sweden is out drinking and partying,” she said. “That is not the case.”

 

 

[JyTees]

This thread is depressing!

 

Comparing wearing a facemask everywhere with wearing a seat belt in a car. FFS. They've really got to some folks.

[Georgecowie]

2 hours ago, Pasquale for King said:

Sweden and Scotland, they had over 4 times the cases we’ve had, over double the deaths with only twice the population. 

Double the deaths with twice the population is not much of a headline is it? More testing done? Or I guess a soft lockdown would lead to more cases. But if the deaths per capita are pretty similar who is right and who is wrong? 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, JFK-1 said:

 

And aside from having a considerably higher rate of deaths than their Nordic neighbours who went into lockdown it's not the case that they did nothing at all.

Among other  things they issued guidelines instructing people to practice strict social distancing and banned gatherings of more than 50. The major difference is that they advised pretty much the same things everybody else did. But unlike others didn't enforce it.

And it appears they may have a largely obedient population. A quote from a Swedish government minister.
 

 

 

 

still not lockdown tho

 

even if it was lockdown but without the official name you’d expect them to have similar deaths to their Nordic neighbours?

 

i think you’re saying they had considerably higher? if so suggests a different approach to the lockdown of their Nordic neighbours

 

seems its not so easy to just invalidate the high-level model applying to Sweden so now questioning if Sweden actually did lockdown with contradictions 

 

maybe the model was just dross or deliberately dross to wield the fear stick

 

i remember one of the experts commenting on the models saying something like some of these models will be really useful we just don’t know what ones yet

 

full lockdowns like we saw before are done - the plan is now to live with the risk of covid - unless we’re lucky and it disappears or a vaccine works people will continue to die from/with covid

 

we just need to take realistic precautions based on risk factors to reduce the risk of a bad outcome and hope for the best - just like flu and car accidents etc

[JFK-1]

31 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

still not lockdown tho

 

even if it was lockdown but without the official name you’d expect them to have similar deaths to their Nordic neighbours?

 

i think you’re saying they had considerably higher? if so suggests a different approach to the lockdown of their Nordic neighbours.

 

Between 8 and 9 times higher than Norway. Presumably the difference being Norway implemented full lockdown while Sweden allowed the likes of restaurants to stay open but insisted on limited customers to allow strict social distancing.

What can you say, they went their own way because no one knew how this would pan out. It was akin to a lockdown but not total as it was elsewhere and and not enforced as it was elsewhere.

[DETTY29]

Decent put down.

 

 

 

[ri Alban]

4 hours ago, Georgecowie said:

Double the deaths with twice the population is not much of a headline is it? More testing done? Or I guess a soft lockdown would lead to more cases. But if the deaths per capita are pretty similar who is right and who is wrong? 

Pity Scotland couldn't shut their borders. 

[Herbert.]

13 hours ago, jonnothejambo said:

 

After going to Australia last year on Emirates Business Class we will never go Economy on long haul again. 

 

We will be staying at home until we decide to go back down under. 

 

Nothing in Europe appeals. All the hassle at the Airport etc. 

 

May change when there is a vaccine but we wouldn't feel comfortable going anywhere just now. 

 

We are lucky that we can afford it. 

 

 

 

Business class is the way forward, I went business with finnair, best flight ever. They must turn the turbulence off up front and keep it for the cattle in the back. 

[ri Alban]

5 hours ago, JyTees said:

This thread is depressing!

 

Comparing wearing a facemask everywhere with wearing a seat belt in a car. FFS. They've really got to some folks.

Really!!! 

Put it this way, there are more people out and about whilst we come out of lockdown. So wearing a face mask to stop further spread, isn't to much to ask, is it? . Well... it is if your a fecking twit. 

 

As for the seat belt, it's the policing of the mask that is comparable to the wearing of a seat belt. A cop doesn't stand at your vehicle before anyone set off, but if they are so stupid and don't give a feck, that the Polis catch them not  wearing their's after they've had a few pints driving up the road, which is their god giving right to do, isn't it. Well... Tough shit. 

 

Let's hope they haven't left the dead prostitute in the boot. 

 

 

I'll be watching the posting when King Boris' England starts wearing them. 

[ri Alban]

18 hours ago, AlimOzturk said:

And so it begins. This is what I was afraid of from the ****ing start. If this is an over riding success there  and people comply then watch compulsory mask wearing spreading like wild fire where ever you want to go. That is a total and utter  disgrace. 
 

Hoping I am just being paranoid Doubt I am though 
 

Are you back working today, bud? 

 

 

Hope everything goes well! 👍

[vegas-voss]

10 hours ago, JamesM48 said:

I beg to differ . Living with the chronic anxiety of the last 4 months has led to people having serious  mental health issues , to almost suicide . There is also the impact of lack of physical exercise for those who have had to shield or socially iSolate as well as those with ongoing health conditions such as cancer who haven’t been seen by consultants etc due to CV . Unemployment caused by tr lockdown has caused family tensions and issues which may take a long time to heal. 

I will echo that as a workmate just returned two weeks ago and he doesn't look good at all and struggling physically.He looks a bit of a wreck to be honest and despite just reaching retirement age is worried that retiring will just see him regress more.Really brought it home to myself that despite being ok with how things are more and more as the weeks went on for others it just got worse.

[OBE]

19 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

I can't get my head round the idea of wanting to go on an overseas holiday. 

Airports make me angry at the best of times. To be accurate, people at airports... I'd probably lose my mind with current restrictions in place. 

Then there's the thought of being stuck in an aircraft for a couple of hours breathing recycled air that's been breathed out by others. Another nasty concept at the best of times.

Then when you get anywhere, the locals will resent you being there because you've come from the UK, which is a Covid breeding ground in their eyes.

And half the stuff you want to do is either closed or severely restricted. 

None of it's for me. You can keep your Costa Brava and all of that palaver, I'm telling you mate I'd rather have a week down Margate with all the family.

 

 

 

Stuck in an aircraft for the duration of the flight, highly recommended.

 

Cabin air in modern aircraft is replenished between 16 and 20 times per hour, average maybe every 3 minutes 30 seconds. Also passes through HEPA (High Efficiency Particle Arrestors) filters that allegedly captures 99.99% of harmful bacteria, just bad luck if your sat beside Snotters for the duration. 

 

70% proof Whisky...sorted...

Edited July 15, 2020 by OBE

[Samuel Camazzola]

10 minutes ago, jonesy said:

Got a free upgrade on a Finnair flight once (Xi’an to Helsinki). 
 

All good, except the Chinese bloke next me tanned a bottle of red in about 15 mins (I’m guessing he was also upgraded) and promptly passed out only to wake up a few minutes later while vomiting all over himself. 

[JudyJudyJudy]

1 hour ago, vegas-voss said:

I will echo that as a workmate just returned two weeks ago and he doesn't look good at all and struggling physically.He looks a bit of a wreck to be honest and despite just reaching retirement age is worried that retiring will just see him regress more.Really brought it home to myself that despite being ok with how things are more and more as the weeks went on for others it just got worse.

That’s sad . Yes lockdown has probably given some people a glimpse into their future if they haven’t got much of a social life or friends and then have to retire 

[JudyJudyJudy]

12 minutes ago, Lord BJ said:

Modelling isn’t designed to give a definitive answer. By their nature they have a large number of variables. These variable are tweaked to provide a variety of scenarios, 

 

These scenarios aren’t used to determine what happens. It more gives you a view of the direction of travel against other scenarios. 

 

Modelling is far from the be all and end all or even close to it. It’s just pieces of information that decision makers use to inform decisions. . 
 

As @Smithee points out the Neil Ferguson produced a variety of models that triggered the decision to make a lock down. However, the 400k scenario was just a scenario which was essentially do nothing. There were lots of alternate scenarios produced, willing to wager one or two won’t be a million miles away. What made it a ‘valuable’ piece of info is gave a indicator of the delta in terms of key factors between different strategies. 
 

As an aside Ferguson has came out after he resigned and claimed if we went into lockdown earlier we would have halved the death rate U.K. wide. 
 

Experts in something like this are in someways similar to  most people they don’t know the answer. They have a opinion which will be based on varying degrees of knowledge, access to info, Psychological biases etc.
 

Whilst, I’m of the belief they are probably they are best informed it doesn’t mean they are right.  It’s really a case of which expert you pick to believe🤷🏻‍♂️
 

@JamesM48 made a good post talking about the damage that lockdown has done and will do from economical and social aspect. I have to say I look at the damage lockdown has done and will do and finding myself wondering if the cure will turn out to be more damaging than the actual virus. Time will tell. 
 

We desperately need to get the wheels turning in Scotland. No one thinks the risk has disappeared, however, as humans we live with risks everyday. This Is another risk that we will learn to have to live with. However, following some pretty common sense procedures should see us ok. 

Ohh and @Governor Tarkin has clearly moved from Oxgangs and started residing in a number of posters mind. His ability to trigger posters😂

 

👍👍👍

[SectionDJambo]

2 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

I will echo that as a workmate just returned two weeks ago and he doesn't look good at all and struggling physically.He looks a bit of a wreck to be honest and despite just reaching retirement age is worried that retiring will just see him regress more.Really brought it home to myself that despite being ok with how things are more and more as the weeks went on for others it just got worse.

Your workmate has understandable concerns, but depending on his circumstances, retirement can have great benefits to your health and general wellbeing.

I retired at the end of November. After the Christmas bounce, it took a wee bit of discipline to make sure I got out for exercise.

Especially if your workmate has a physical job, it's desirable he gets outside for a couple of reasons, off the top of my head. 

First, it will be more enjoyable and measured physical movement than he probably has at work. Walking around watching the world go by and noticing things you didn't before. Providing your brain with daylight, particularly in winter, is really beneficial.

Second, you'd be surprised at the number of times you see the same faces during your daily exercise. People who over time will start to acknowledge you and then have wee conversations after a while. This has been really noticeable to me, especially after lockdown, when people of all ages were outside. It's good to talk to people.

The last thing he wants to do is sit at home all day. Maybe be good for him too, if the other guys at work could meet up with him for a couple if drinks, now and again, once the pub trade returns to some normality.

[I P Knightley]

2 hours ago, OBE said:

 

Stuck in an aircraft for the duration of the flight, highly recommended.

 

Cabin air in modern aircraft is replenished between 16 and 20 times per hour, average maybe every 3 minutes 30 seconds. Also passes through HEPA (High Efficiency Particle Arrestors) filters that allegedly captures 99.99% of harmful bacteria, just bad luck if your sat beside Snotters for the duration. 

 

70% proof Whisky...sorted...

I know that that's the logic of it but, somehow, it just never feels like I've been in a health spa when I've been on a plane. Perhaps it's the gin?

 

 

[vegas-voss]

18 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Your workmate has understandable concerns, but depending on his circumstances, retirement can have great benefits to your health and general wellbeing.

I retired at the end of November. After the Christmas bounce, it took a wee bit of discipline to make sure I got out for exercise.

Especially if your workmate has a physical job, it's desirable he gets outside for a couple of reasons, off the top of my head. 

First, it will be more enjoyable and measured physical movement than he probably has at work. Walking around watching the world go by and noticing things you didn't before. Providing your brain with daylight, particularly in winter, is really beneficial.

Second, you'd be surprised at the number of times you see the same faces during your daily exercise. People who over time will start to acknowledge you and then have wee conversations after a while. This has been really noticeable to me, especially after lockdown, when people of all ages were outside. It's good to talk to people.

The last thing he wants to do is sit at home all day. Maybe be good for him too, if the other guys at work could meet up with him for a couple if drinks, now and again, once the pub trade returns to some normality.

I think that is one of his fears he lives alone now and other than work even before this he was hardly out the house.He has told me he has been trying to get out for walks as he feels so unfit so hopefully over the coming weeks he starts to improve.Thanks for that reply though he is a good guy who has just started to let the world get on top of him even before Covid came along but that seems to have made things far worse.

[XB52]

7 hours ago, Georgecowie said:

Double the deaths with twice the population is not much of a headline is it? More testing done? Or I guess a soft lockdown would lead to more cases. But if the deaths per capita are pretty similar who is right and who is wrong? 

Surely it makes more sense to compare Sweden with other countries close by. Not got a clue regarding density of population but surely comparing Sweden with Finland, Denmark, Norway is a fairer comparison. This shows how much worse Sweden did 

[SectionDJambo]

3 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

I think that is one of his fears he lives alone now and other than work even before this he was hardly out the house.He has told me he has been trying to get out for walks as he feels so unfit so hopefully over the coming weeks he starts to improve.Thanks for that reply though he is a good guy who has just started to let the world get on top of him even before Covid came along but that seems to have made things far worse.

He sounds like a guy who is worth keeping an interest in, especially at worrying times like this. Walking is great for the heart and mind, and doesn’t have to be for big distances. I wish him, and others of a similar situation, well.

[Governor Tarkin]

8 minutes ago, XB52 said:

Surely it makes more sense to compare Sweden with other countries close by. Not got a clue regarding density of population but surely comparing Sweden with Finland, Denmark, Norway is a fairer comparison. This shows how much worse Sweden did 

 

The time to judge Sweden will be in a couple of years once the bigger picture becomes clearer. Sure they've taken a hit with excess deaths this year, but nobody yet knows how they will fare with second/third waves (if they come) with any increased level of antibodies in the general population on account of higher infection rates this time around. It may yet have proved a prudent tactic as other countries are forced back into stricter lockdowns. 

There's plenty of opposing expert opinion floating around but nobody really knows for sure.

[vegas-voss]

7 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

He sounds like a guy who is worth keeping an interest in, especially at worrying times like this. Walking is great for the heart and mind, and doesn’t have to be for big distances. I wish him, and others of a similar situation, well.

I said that to him as he has been trying to go longer distances ( in his mind they are long but are actually quite short ).I told him instead of doing the one walk to get himself out 3 or 4 times for 20 mins each throughout the day.He is also one of these people that couldnt tell you anyone who even lived in his street.It used to be a bit of a joke at the work that he was barely out the house apart from work but its worrying now after seeing how he has come back.My father in law is the same age but the difference in the two of them is really telling.

[kila]

1 minute ago, vegas-voss said:

I said that to him as he has been trying to go longer distances ( in his mind they are long but are actually quite short ).I told him instead of doing the one walk to get himself out 3 or 4 times for 20 mins each throughout the day.He is also one of these people that couldnt tell you anyone who even lived in his street.It used to be a bit of a joke at the work that he was barely out the house apart from work but its worrying now after seeing how he has come back.My father in law is the same age but the difference in the two of them is really telling.

 

An older recuse dog that doesn't need walked much might help? Motivation to get out for a walk and a pal around the house too.