US drone strike takes out top Iranian general

[maroonlegions]

8 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Being right can be dangerous to your health, better to live in ignorant bliss. 👍

Or live on the edge and dice with danger..

 

 

 

 

[Sharpie]

15 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Mind Lockerbie? Did Iran or Libya have the chance to investigate or was it just Scotland/UK/America.

You are correc t to some extent in that statement, but normally  a country such as Canada who lost many people in the aircraft downing would be allowed to participate in any investigation and are not, much evidence as was available has already been destroyed or interfered with. I am not sure Iran or Libya lost other than the bomber anyone in the Lockerbie bombing, nor was the aircraft or the airfield used for departure anything to do with them, so other than the later identified suspect, no right of access.

[Space Mackerel]

22 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Mind Lockerbie? Did Iran or Libya have the chance to investigate or was it just Scotland/UK/America.

There’s an excellent documentary about the Lockerbie bombing I watched about a year ago. It goes into much more detail than the stuff you watched on the MSM here. I’ll try and dig it out. 

 

I’m not going to go into detail as the usuals will shout “conspiracy theorist” 

 

 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

12 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Or live on the edge and dice with danger..

 

 

 

 

 

Reminds of that classic book.

 

The Tigers Revenge

          By

   Claud Bawls

 

[Sharpie]

Just had lunch and watching the News, its really an experience, apparently there was also a failed attempt to take out another guy in Yemen at the same time as the General. Trump and Pompeo, Trump on Fox news Pompeo on MSM each contradicting the other, Trump stating clearly that another four Embassies were targeted by Solemiani, Pompeo does not seem to agree with this. Republican Senator says the briefing given to them was the most disgraceful briefing on military matters he has seen in his nine years in the Senate. Another politician said the whole thing was sophomoric, and this briefing was given by the USA's top Intelligence people, Pompeo et al. One reporter just sat and said the President is a liar, and no one was shocked everyone just kept going on as if they had said looks like it could rain. His, Trumps penchant to lie has just become a normal fact of life. It actually was like watching a movie where you enjoyed the intrigue but knew the actors had all been paid and had movd on to do another movie. It is for me almost  impossible to believe that Trump can screw up dealing with Iran, and he may have at some time have to deal similarly with Russia, China or North Korea. He will not be able to use what one of his people called as in the Irani case a Preemptive Assassination.

Having said all that I don't think he is going to be around much longer to have to make any of these decisions.

[Maple Leaf]

32 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

Just had lunch and watching the News, its really an experience, apparently there was also a failed attempt to take out another guy in Yemen at the same time as the General. Trump and Pompeo, Trump on Fox news Pompeo on MSM each contradicting the other, Trump stating clearly that another four Embassies were targeted by Solemiani, Pompeo does not seem to agree with this. Republican Senator says the briefing given to them was the most disgraceful briefing on military matters he has seen in his nine years in the Senate. Another politician said the whole thing was sophomoric, and this briefing was given by the USA's top Intelligence people, Pompeo et al. One reporter just sat and said the President is a liar, and no one was shocked everyone just kept going on as if they had said looks like it could rain. His, Trumps penchant to lie has just become a normal fact of life. It actually was like watching a movie where you enjoyed the intrigue but knew the actors had all been paid and had movd on to do another movie. It is for me almost  impossible to believe that Trump can screw up dealing with Iran, and he may have at some time have to deal similarly with Russia, China or North Korea. He will not be able to use what one of his people called as in the Irani case a Preemptive Assassination.

Having said all that I don't think he is going to be around much longer to have to make any of these decisions.

 

You keep saying that and I keep hoping that you're right.

[Sharpie]

33 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

You keep saying that and I keep hoping that you're right.

 

Well to boost your confidence I was just as sure I would win that 70,000,000 lottery last week.

[redjambo]

54 minutes ago, bobsharp said:

 

Well to boost your confidence I was just as sure I would win that 70,000,000 lottery last week.

 

Did you win?

[Sharpie]

2 hours ago, redjambo said:

 

Did you win?

 

In my simple mind yes, in my bank account no.

[redjambo]

Just now, bobsharp said:

 

In my simple mind yes, in my bank account no.

 

The other way around would have been nicer.

 

I just hope you're more accurate with your Trump predictions.

[DETTY29]

Iran admits plane brought down dye to human error and will be brought to account.

[FWJ]

8 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

Iran admits plane brought down dye to human error and will be brought to account.

Yup, being reported on the radio just now.  
They’ve gone from insisting it wasn’t a few hours ago to admitting it was.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621

Edited January 11, 2020 by FWJ

[ri Alban]

9 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Yup, being reported on the radio just now.  
They’ve gone from insisting it wasn’t a few hours ago to admitting it was.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-51073621

They've explained why. USAF(They call them something else) in their airspace.

[AlphonseCapone]

On 08/01/2020 at 11:39, AlphonseCapone said:

A modern aircraft with several back-up engines has crashed in what is a ridiculously rare event, at what just happens to be the same time and in the same place that missiles and military aircraft were kicking about? 

 

Sounds plausible. 

 

#logic

#obviously 

 

[ri Alban]

10 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

#logic

#obviously 

 

I supposed a broken clock is right twice a day.

👍

[OBE]

The statement said it had done so due to "human error" after the plane flew close to a sensitive site belonging to Iran's Revolutionary Guards.

 

What, 3 miles out in a straight line from an international airport? 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Old Blue Eyes

[The Internet]

Well this is surprising. 

[XB52]

Well that's me shown to be totally wrong, not for the first time. This might have the effect of stopping any real retaliation by Iran for the assassination so maybe some good comes out of a terrible tragedy

[Jambo-Jimbo]

So it was a tragic accident afterall.

It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to have been right about this all along, because 176 people died as a result of this tragic mistake.

Perhaps now all these conspiracy theories can be consigned to the rubbish bin where they belong.

 

I'm glad that Iran has taken the opportunity which had been offered to them, and make no mistakes this is a watershed moment in the history of Iran and the wider Middle East, no country likes to admit they made a huge mistake in shooting down a passenger plane so for Iran to come clean and admit their guilt really is a pivotal moment and just shows the huge pressure the Iranian regime was being put under, not least from within, because most of the dead were their own citizens.

 

It is my hope that some good can come from this tragedly and that all sides can get back around the table and serious dialogue can begin to de-escalate the tensions in the ME, not just right now but in the future.

 

At least now the families of the dead can have some form of closure, they now know how & why their loved ones died.

[ri Alban]

Trump caused this shite just so he could look like the peacemaker. Pull out of the nuke peace accord and make it look like he fixed it, after new negotiations. Same pish as North Korea.

No assassinated General, no plane blown from the sky. Arsehole!

[Victorian]

.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Victorian

[Victorian]

The Americans are partly responsible for the wider context.   Contributing to the conditions in which actions occur.    But the only responsibility for the specific action falls on Iran.     To blame the Americans for Iran's irresponsibility with lethal weaponry is obtuse in the extreme.

[Don Dan]

1 minute ago, Victorian said:

The Americans are partly responsible for the wider context.   Contributing to the conditions in which actions occur.    But the only responsibility for the specific action falls on Iran.     To blame the Americans for Iran's irresponsibility with lethal weaponry is obtuse in the extreme.

I was just thinking the same. 
To add a further obvious point, sadly in a conflict, there is always collateral damage.

 

[SectionDJambo]

Whilst they’ve, finally, admitted the obvious, to say they thought this aircraft was a threat is still stretching the imagination. Were there not other aircraft taking off beforehand? This aircraft was still climbing, from take off only a minute previously, from the airport of the capital.
If the Revolutionary Guard get this jumpy from a regular flight coming out of Tehran, what are they going to be like when they can fire off nuclear weapons?
There are still many questions to be answered, not least why they tried to cover it up in the first place. They’re, clearly, not as good as the Russians in denial about catastrophic events like this. The Russians  just keep telling lies, no matter how obvious they are, which isn’t much different from the current “leader of the free world”.

In all my time on this earth, I cannot remember a time when so many nutters were running countries. 

[Zico]

39 minutes ago, Victorian said:

To blame the Americans for Iran's irresponsibility with lethal weaponry is obtuse in the extreme.

Im sure there’ll be a few on this thread who’ll try. 
 

And the idea that thinking that Western intelligence agencies know when missiles are being fired due to watching ‘bad movies’

[Mikey1874]

Ukrainian investigators have been involved alongside Iran. It was Ukrainian flight.

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Victorian said:

The Americans are partly responsible for the wider context.   Contributing to the conditions in which actions occur.    But the only responsibility for the specific action falls on Iran.     To blame the Americans for Iran's irresponsibility with lethal weaponry is obtuse in the extreme.

 

Correct. In delict/tort law these are essentially the concepts of proximate cause and contributory negligence.

[Mikey1874]

48 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

Whilst they’ve, finally, admitted the obvious, to say they thought this aircraft was a threat is still stretching the imagination. Were there not other aircraft taking off beforehand? This aircraft was still climbing, from take off only a minute previously, from the airport of the capital.
If the Revolutionary Guard get this jumpy from a regular flight coming out of Tehran, what are they going to be like when they can fire off nuclear weapons?
There are still many questions to be answered, not least why they tried to cover it up in the first place. They’re, clearly, not as good as the Russians in denial about catastrophic events like this. The Russians  just keep telling lies, no matter how obvious they are, which isn’t much different from the current “leader of the free world”.

In all my time on this earth, I cannot remember a time when so many nutters were running countries. 

 

Good points. Iran saying "the jet turned to a sensitive area belonging to Iran's Revolutionary Guards" isn't credible as any excuse. 

 

This sort of thing involving Iran did happen once before with similar initial explanations. Hopefully no one bombs another passenger plane in retaliation this time. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

[AlphonseCapone]

5 hours ago, ri Alban said:

I supposed a broken clock is right twice a day.

👍

 

Still waiting on your time 😉

[AlphonseCapone]

5 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Good points. Iran saying "the jet turned to a sensitive area belonging to Iran's Revolutionary Guards" isn't credible as any excuse. 

 

This sort of thing involving Iran did happen once before with similar initial explanations. Hopefully no one bombs another passenger plane in retaliation this time. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

 

It also makes zero sense in that all flights have flight plans so why did it either have permission to go over a sensitive path, especially one so sensitive you get blown out the sky. And why wouldn't the defense guys know to expect it. Or are they saying it went off plan? If so why? And that's easily verified. 

[Mikey1874]

6 minutes ago, AlphonseCapone said:

 

It also makes zero sense in that all flights have flight plans so why did it either have permission to go over a sensitive path, especially one so sensitive you get blown out the sky. And why wouldn't the defense guys know to expect it. Or are they saying it went off plan? If so why? And that's easily verified. 

 

Exactly. Hopefully it will be verified. 

 

See from 4.25 in video below for history repeating itself pretty much exactly.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Mikey1874

[SectionDJambo]

11 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Good points. Iran saying "the jet turned to a sensitive area belonging to Iran's Revolutionary Guards" isn't credible as any excuse. 

 

This sort of thing involving Iran did happen once before with similar initial explanations. Hopefully no one bombs another passenger plane in retaliation this time. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

I remember that terrible event well. There’s little doubt that was, at least, some of the motivation for the PanAm plane bombing, which only went wrong, for those planning it, by the device not going off over the Atlantic, due to a delay in take off of the plane.

The Americans were the first to “accidentally” bring down a commercial aircraft. Sadly, they haven’t been the last.

[OBE]

This Ukranian 737 would,ve been transmitting their unique signature assigned to all scheduled civil aircraft.

 

"Human Error" The Iranians claim...A missile system commander is gonna loss the heid...literally! 

[SectionDJambo]

It seems such an extreme mistake for trained military personnel to make.
Not being a conspiracy theorist doesn’t stop me wondering if there  was someone, or something, on that aircraft that the Iranians didn’t want to leave Iran, but had no other means of doing it. 
Innocent lives lost is not something that the Iranians have a record of caring much about.

[Mikey1874]

10 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

It seems such an extreme mistake for trained military personnel to make.
Not being a conspiracy theorist doesn’t stop me wondering if there  was someone, or something, on that aircraft that the Iranians didn’t want to leave Iran, but had no other means of doing it. 
Innocent lives lost is not something that the Iranians have a record of caring much about.

 

Classic of why conspiracy theories start.

 

People thinking something couldn't have happened. Then joining other dots. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

17 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

This Ukranian 737 would,ve been transmitting their unique signature assigned to all scheduled civil aircraft.

 

"Human Error" The Iranians claim...A missile system commander is gonna loss the heid...literally! 

 

I'd imagine the entire crew who were manning that anti-aircraft battery will have been relieved of their duties.........................permanently.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

14 minutes ago, SectionDJambo said:

It seems such an extreme mistake for trained military personnel to make.
Not being a conspiracy theorist doesn’t stop me wondering if there  was someone, or something, on that aircraft that the Iranians didn’t want to leave Iran, but had no other means of doing it. 
Innocent lives lost is not something that the Iranians have a record of caring much about.

 

Can see a problem with that, inasmuch that now the Iranians have admitted fault, they will probably have to work closely with all the other countries involved, in other words whilst they can still lead the investigation they can't keep control of it because there will now be several other parties also investigating alongside the Iranians.

[redjambo]

I can't help thinking of the Iranian head of civil aviation who emphasised 100% that the one thing he was sure of was that it hadn't been a missile strike. Either nobbled or incompetent.

[Mikey1874]

9 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Can see a problem with that, inasmuch that now the Iranians have admitted fault, they will probably have to work closely with all the other countries involved, in other words whilst they can still lead the investigation they can't keep control of it because there will now be several other parties also investigating alongside the Iranians.

 

They were /are already working with Ukraine on the investigation.

 

Ukraine itself was the place a Malaysian passenger jet was shot down by Russian missile by Russian supported 'separatists' something that is still denied.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Mikey1874

[OBE]

Just now, redjambo said:

I can't help thinking of the Iranian head of civil aviation who emphasised 100% that the one thing he was sure of was that it hadn't been a missile strike. Either nobbled or incompetent.

 

Both!

[redjambo]

31 minutes ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

This Ukranian 737 would,ve been transmitting their unique signature assigned to all scheduled civil aircraft.

 

Not going to show on pure radar or if it was an eyeball judgement.

[SectionDJambo]

Don't want to become a conspiracy theorist after saying I'm not one. But the Iranians have had plenty time to remove any evidence they don't want seen. It's such an extreme "mistake", to be an astonishing one to make. An aircraft climbing next to an international airport, after plenty more have just passed by, presumably.

I just think there is more to this than the Iranians are letting on. 

[Mikey1874]

Just now, SectionDJambo said:

Don't want to become a conspiracy theorist after saying I'm not one. But the Iranians have had plenty time to remove any evidence they don't want seen. It's such an extreme "mistake", to be an astonishing one to make. An aircraft climbing next to an international airport, after plenty more have just passed by, presumably.

I just think there is more to this than the Iranians are letting on. 

 

It's more showing incompetence and dysfunction.

 

And automatic reactions to deny and protect. Shown in other events. They've denied killing up to 1400 Iranians recently just protesting about the cost of living. 

[redjambo]

54 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Good points. Iran saying "the jet turned to a sensitive area belonging to Iran's Revolutionary Guards" isn't credible as any excuse.

 

Spot on.

[Jambo-Jimbo]

13 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

They were /are already working with Ukraine on the investigation.

 

Ukraine itself was the place a Malaysian passenger jet was shot down by Russian missile by Russian supported 'separatists' something that is still denied.

 

 

 

Yeh, the Ukrainian team arrived in Tehran yesterday morning and there was talk about a Canadian team as well going out.

[Mikey1874]

12 minutes ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

 

Yeh, the Ukrainian team arrived in Tehran yesterday morning and there was talk about a Canadian team as well going out.

 

BBC have talked to Ukraine's Government security officials.

 

As the evidence came in yesterday Ukraine said it's clear and obvious and you can't deny it. 

[highlandjambo3]

4 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

So it was a tragic accident afterall.

It gives me no pleasure whatsoever to have been right about this all along, because 176 people died as a result of this tragic mistake.

Perhaps now all these conspiracy theories can be consigned to the rubbish bin where they belong.

 

I'm glad that Iran has taken the opportunity which had been offered to them, and make no mistakes this is a watershed moment in the history of Iran and the wider Middle East, no country likes to admit they made a huge mistake in shooting down a passenger plane so for Iran to come clean and admit their guilt really is a pivotal moment and just shows the huge pressure the Iranian regime was being put under, not least from within, because most of the dead were their own citizens.

 

It is my hope that some good can come from this tragedly and that all sides can get back around the table and serious dialogue can begin to de-escalate the tensions in the ME, not just right now but in the future.

 

At least now the families of the dead can have some form of closure, they now know how & why their loved ones died.

I think in the short term this has given both sides the opportunity to step back and, more importantly, be seen by each other’s minions to have scored a hit............ unfortunately, like two fat blokes out jogging and desperate for a breather, once they have taken a breath they will be at it again........absolute nap. 

Edited January 11, 2020 by highlandjambo3
Sorry, when I say “scored a hit” I didn’t mean the passenger jet, I meant the missiles they fired at the American base.

[highlandjambo3]

1 hour ago, Old Blue Eyes said:

This Ukranian 737 would,ve been transmitting their unique signature assigned to all scheduled civil aircraft.

 

"Human Error" The Iranians claim...A missile system commander is gonna loss the heid...literally! 

That’s what I was thinking earlier on.......some poor captain will be hung for this. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

45 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

BBC have talked to Ukraine's Government security officials.

 

As the evidence came in yesterday Ukraine said it's clear and obvious and you can't deny it. 

 

I think when the video of the missle hitting the plane emerged, it was the final straw and there was nothing else but for the Iranians to admit it.

 

[Mac_fae_Gillie]

3 hours ago, SectionDJambo said:

Don't want to become a conspiracy theorist after saying I'm not one. But the Iranians have had plenty time to remove any evidence they don't want seen. It's such an extreme "mistake", to be an astonishing one to make. An aircraft climbing next to an international airport, after plenty more have just passed by, presumably.

I just think there is more to this than the Iranians are letting on. 

Actually no other aircraft had taken off for 20mins and the UKR flight was late, there is a chance that it was an unexpected blip on the radar that the defence force was not expecting and who at the time were on full alert expecting a USA counter strike.. just a bitching set of circumstances. 

Can't see that it was turning to a sensitive base been an excuse though as it had only been in air 2 mins really think this would be a normal banking move near an airport as it would still be under ATC control.