The Labour party

[RobboM]

5 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

If we had not voted for Brexit Boris would not be PM. But we did and people got extremely pissed off and bored by Parliament's failure to deliver or come close to delivering any form of Brexit. 

But most post-election analysis on the crucial loss of traditional Labour votes suggest it was more down to Corbyn and the Corbynistas' desire to recreate the sort of socialist paradise enjoyed in Eastern Europe (and by Corbyn on his holidays there) until 1990, their sympathy for terrorists, their absurd advent calendar of daily promises of ever greater expenditure, a streak of anti-Semitism, and so on. 

 

Where's your evidence?
In the YouGov analysis just 3% of former Labour voters cited "extremism", compared to 10% who said "tactical voting". Corbyn and Brexit were the main issues for former Labour voters changing.
 

[Francis Albert]

6 minutes ago, RobboM said:

Where's your evidence?
In the YouGov analysis just 3% of former Labour voters cited "extremism", compared to 10% who said "tactical voting". Corbyn and Brexit were the main issues for former Labour voters changing.
 

Did YouGov expand on what "Corbyn" and "Brexit" meant? 

Or for that matter what the motivation for "tactical voting" was?

Edited January 3, 2020 by Francis Albert

[Diadora Van Basten]

9 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

It was more Corbyn and his supporters than the likes of Starmer who caused Labour to lose votes in the North of England and elsewhere.

Whatever myths and self-justification the Corbynistas ply.

I think Brexit was an issue in the North of England and Corbyn’s position in the election v May was that he would implement it.

 

It was the likes of Starmer and Watson who pushed for a people’s vote a policy popular in London but very unpopular in the North of England.

 

In the end the Labour position was unclear and cost them seats in the election v Boris.

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, Diadora Van Basten said:

I think Brexit was an issue in the North of England and Corbyn’s position in the election v May was that he would implement it.

 

It was the likes of Starmer and Watson who pushed for a people’s vote a policy popular in London but very unpopular in the North of England.

 

In the end the Labour position was unclear and cost them seats in the election v Boris.

Can't argue with that. 

Whether Corbyn was just a hopeless leader or in a hopeless position ... maybe both.

[The Mighty Thor]

So the NEC have announced the rules for the leadership race.

 

Candidates must gain the support of 10% of MPs/MEPs as well as support of 5% of constituency parties or support of 3 affiliated bodies/trade unions.

 

That'll ensure the unions decide who goes through and most likely who fills the top seats. 

 

Plus ca change.

[Zico]

Long-Bailey’s a stick-on. Wonder if she’s still sure that she voted Ed Milligan’s for leader!

 

The Tories will be pissing themselves laughing. The country, not so much. 

[Jee]

Labour need a bigger swing than what was achieved by Blair in 1997. That ain't happening regardless of whose leader.

 

Being Labour leader is a good job not to get right now. 

 

 

 

 

[The Mighty Thor]

McCluskey puts Unite behind Long Bailey and the continuity candidate looks odd on to be the next leader. 

 

Mesmeric stuff. 

 

The Tories will be pissing themselves with the absolute free hand they'll have for the next 15 years. 

[Jambo-Jimbo]

16 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

McCluskey puts Unite behind Long Bailey and the continuity candidate looks odd on to be the next leader. 

 

Mesmeric stuff. 

 

The Tories will be pissing themselves with the absolute free hand they'll have for the next 15 years. 

 

I think it was the morning after the election and IDS was on sky news, when asked whom he'd prefer to be the next leader he replied from a Tory point of view Rebecca Long-Bailey because she is nothing more than a Corbyn clone and the public had twice rejected Corbyn, he could bearly control his delight at the prospect that Labour would choose Rebecca Long-Bailey.

[SwindonJambo]

Keir Starmer the hot favourite by all accounts. For me it has to be him. Wrong Daily and Boris will get an even bigger majority next time.

[The Mighty Thor]

15 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

Keir Starmer the hot favourite by all accounts. For me it has to be him. Wrong Daily and Boris will get an even bigger majority next time.

Still think the unions block/momentum lemmings will swing it for RLB, then again I think labour is done for anyway. 

 

 

 

[SwindonJambo]

19 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Still think the unions block/momentum lemmings will swing it for RLB, then again I think labour is done for anyway. 

 

 

 

That would be a disaster. RLB was on the radio last night. Imho, she's never a PM in a million years, leaving Boris and his silver spooned chums a free rein to do as they please with no-one effective to hold them to account 

[Brighton Jambo]

If Labour elect RLB they are done possibly forever.  I’m no labour voter but for the good of the UK they need to be credible again.  
 

I can’t believe they could be as self indulgent as that.  

[Dawnrazor]

13 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

If Labour elect RLB they are done possibly forever.  I’m no labour voter but for the good of the UK they need to be credible again.  
 

I can’t believe they could be as self indulgent as that.  

I think if Long Bailey wins and Burgon or Angela Raynor win the race for Deputy Leader we might a split in the party.

[Brighton Jambo]

1 minute ago, Dawnrazor said:

I think if Long Bailey wins and Burgon or Angela Raynor win the race for Deputy Leader we might a split in the party.

Good point.  For the sake of the country I hope that does happen.  

[Dawnrazor]

3 minutes ago, Brighton Jambo said:

Good point.  For the sake of the country I hope that does happen.  

It won't be good in the short term, it'll give the conservatives and free pass for at least 1 probably 2 elections, but in the long term it'll be, imo, much better for the labour party, I'm a conservative voter most of the time but a strong, robust, credible opposition is a must, we've not had that for over 10 years now.

[jumpship]

1 hour ago, Dawnrazor said:

It won't be good in the short term, it'll give the conservatives and free pass for at least 1 probably 2 elections, but in the long term it'll be, imo, much better for the labour party, I'm a conservative voter most of the time but a strong, robust, credible opposition is a must, we've not had that for over 10 years now.

Like the old firm, tories and labour need each other to carve up the votes. 

 

If labour finally and fatally collapse,new parties with real radical ideas will come to the table. You can see the public have a taste for it with UKIP/Brexit party.  Only problem with that was they stood for one issue. 

 

In Scotland its SNP V's Unionist parties. 

 

Imo, it's good that labour are finished. 

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP are a disaster to each individual that lives in Scotland, and to Scotland as a whole. IMO

 

You and your fellow Brits are a disaster for Scotland. 

 

Tick Tock!

[jumpship]

6 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

The SNP are a disaster to each individual that lives in Scotland, and to Scotland as a whole. IMO

 

 

 

I had a pretty eye opening conversation with a guy who's worked in the oil industry for years. 

 

Now he doesn't support Scottish independence but not because we are to wee, to poor, to stupid like most britnats think. 

 

He said it was because Westminster has completely wasted Scotland's natural resources. And continues to do so. No investment, no infrastructure,  everything is sold off to the highest bidder. At the moment thats the Chinese.  

 

He pointed out that not one penny of Scotland's oil money has been saved or reinvested.  

 

The UK and Norway found oil at the same time. The UK has actually pulled more oil out the ground than Norway. But Norway has their public owned oil company.  Infrastructure, rigs, boats the lot. Reinvested billions.

 

The UK sold everything off. 

The chat about it costs more for the UK to get oil out the ground... that's the reason.  

 

At this moment Norway sits with $1.5 trillion in the bank. 

 

Scotland sits with a share of £1.5 trillion worth of debt. 

 

The SNP are bad for Scotland? 

 

[Harry Potter]

3 hours ago, Hunky Dory said:

Your opinion is utterly worthless.

Why because he does not support the SNP,  deary me.

[maroonlegions]

21 hours ago, Dawnrazor said:

It won't be good in the short term, it'll give the conservatives and free pass for at least 1 probably 2 elections, but in the long term it'll be, imo, much better for the labour party, I'm a conservative voter most of the time but a strong, robust, credible opposition is a must, we've not had that for over 10 years now.

Says it all eh. You must be proud of your parties class war on the poor and disabled and the mentally ill.

 

Still proud of your parties austerity  related DEATHS too on all manner of people..

 

And remember those who voted Tory now and in the past gave their blessings to AUSTERITY and all the utter misery it has and still does inflicted of millions of people.By  anyone voting Tory  the gave their WILL to such draconian policies. Dragging the UK back to the VIctorian times, this is what this government want.

 

 

Never mind you have another sociopath in your gestapo ranks.

 

 A one Dominic Cummings. 

 

He and his  Tory kind are one set of utterly nasty individuals , not one ounce of human empathy in them.

 

You may rejoice in the Labours shite fest just now but remember  it's a very different state of affairs in Scotland. I will laugh my ass off if Scotland votes for independence, for it will be a direct result of the Tories , oh the fecking irony eh.      

 

 

 

 

    

Edited February 18, 2020 by maroonlegions

[Dawnrazor]

38 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Says it all eh. You must be proud of your parties class war on the poor and disabled and the mentally ill.

 

Still proud of your parties austerity  related DEATHS too on all manner of people..

 

And remember those who voted Tory now and in the past gave their blessings to AUSTERITY and all the utter misery it has and still does inflicted of millions of people.By  anyone voting Tory  the gave their WILL to such draconian policies. Dragging the UK back to the VIctorian times, this is what this government want.

 

 

Never mind you have another sociopath in your gestapo ranks.

 

 A one Dominic Cummings. 

 

He and his  Tory kind are one set of utterly nasty individuals , not one ounce of human empathy in them.

 

You may rejoice in the Labours shite fest just now but remember  it's a very different state of affairs in Scotland. I will laugh my ass off if Scotland votes for independence, for it will be a direct result of the Tories , oh the fecking irony eh.      

 

 

 

 

    

Yep, proud of everything!!

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, maroonlegions said:

Says it all eh. You must be proud of your parties class war on the poor and disabled and the mentally ill.

 

Still proud of your parties austerity  related DEATHS too on all manner of people..

 

And remember those who voted Tory now and in the past gave their blessings to AUSTERITY and all the utter misery it has and still does inflicted of millions of people.By  anyone voting Tory  the gave their WILL to such draconian policies. Dragging the UK back to the VIctorian times, this is what this government want.

 

 

Never mind you have another sociopath in your gestapo ranks.

 

 A one Dominic Cummings. 

 

He and his  Tory kind are one set of utterly nasty individuals , not one ounce of human empathy in them.

 

You may rejoice in the Labours shite fest just now but remember  it's a very different state of affairs in Scotland. I will laugh my ass off if Scotland votes for independence, for it will be a direct result of the Tories , oh the fecking irony eh.      

 

 

 

 

    

Can you provide the source of that Cummings quote please. 
 

Thanks in advance. 

[Nookie Bear]

2 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Says it all eh. You must be proud of your parties class war on the poor and disabled and the mentally ill.

 

Still proud of your parties austerity  related DEATHS too on all manner of people..

 

And remember those who voted Tory now and in the past gave their blessings to AUSTERITY and all the utter misery it has and still does inflicted of millions of people.By  anyone voting Tory  the gave their WILL to such draconian policies. Dragging the UK back to the VIctorian times, this is what this government want.

 

 

Never mind you have another sociopath in your gestapo ranks.

 

 A one Dominic Cummings. 

 

He and his  Tory kind are one set of utterly nasty individuals , not one ounce of human empathy in them.

 

You may rejoice in the Labours shite fest just now but remember  it's a very different state of affairs in Scotland. I will laugh my ass off if Scotland votes for independence, for it will be a direct result of the Tories , oh the fecking irony eh.      

 

 

 

 

    

 

 

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

Can you provide the source of that Cummings quote please. 
 

Thanks in advance. 

 

I will answer it for you: he never said it. 
 

Plenty of ammunition to throw without resorting to embarrassing made-up nonsense you pick up from your sad echo chambers. 

[main]

Would be interesting if blue labour got a shot. Clearly Labour’s left has just been completely rejected by the electorate and even if starmer wins, they won’t win the main centrist votes off Boris Johnson. Won’t happen though. 

[Francis Albert]

4 hours ago, main said:

Would be interesting if blue labour got a shot. Clearly Labour’s left has just been completely rejected by the electorate and even if starmer wins, they won’t win the main centrist votes off Boris Johnson. Won’t happen though. 

What is "blue labour"? The electable party of the left?

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Can you provide the source of that Cummings quote please. 
 

Thanks in advance. 

Suspect you might be waiting a long time. A classic example of what political debate means today ... just make things up (applies to most sides).

[main]

12 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

What is "blue labour"? The electable party of the left?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Labour

 

[Francis Albert]

5 hours ago, main said:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Labour

 

Thanks it is news to me ... never heard the phrase before. I assumed it just meant anti-Corbynista centrist or "right wing" of Labour.

Fair to say I think that Blue Labour has not yet made much headway though they seem to have some potentially decent ideas.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Maroonlegions posting pish?

 

well I never 

[jumpship]

5 hours ago, Zlatanable said:

Thanks for the reply.

'Now he doesn't support Scottish independence but not because we are to wee, to poor, to stupid like most britnats think. ' < I hated this sentence, because it made me realise that you don't appreciate people enough, and how people can have valid, different opinions, at the same time, without anyone being stupid. 

 

I get the point of the story you tell. Alternate history. Which isn't a solid foundation for living in the moment. Or building a future.

 

I deliberately said 'The SNP are a disaster to each individual that lives in Scotland, and to Scotland as a whole. IMO', because The SNP are incapable of viewing the British Isles, with any wisdom, because, they start with the answer, no matter the question. 

 

Many people have tried to attempt doing politics like this in the past, none have lasted. 

 

 

 

 

Suppose I look at the comparability of it. From the looks of it you don't.  

 

You say the SNP are bad but exclude to mention how it would look under another party. I see that a lot of folks who dislike the SNP do the same. 

 

 

 

[manaliveits105]

On 18/02/2020 at 05:11, ri Alban said:

You and your fellow Brits are a disaster for Scotland. 

 

Tick Tock!

Hope you have a watch that doesn't need batteries

[JustinT]

1 hour ago, Zlatanable said:

I don't understand the first two sentences of that. Sorry. 

 

As for the second bit, it's silly. IMO.

 

I was saying that the SNP are bad for people in Scotland, because every question has the same answer. That is not a healthy state to be in. 

Totally agree.

 

The snp are an extremist nationalist party that has one purpose for its existence that is to separate Scotland from England/rest of the UK. The snp relies heavily upon failure and acrimony as it simply must create arguments for separation whether true or false. Separation would from its outset have begun on a platform of falsehoods as it would have been built upon very mostly upon dubious fake manufactured deception deliberately deployed by the snp in order to achieve their singular objective. No thanks. 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by JustinT

[Justin Z]

[JustinT]

5 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

The hysterical laugh gif response. It seems a typically bog standard reply from those who have no coherent argument and resort instead to displaying immaturity. Normally I see reasoned arguments for remaining within the UK and unfortunately your hysterical laugh gif/other gifs/etc on behalf of separation. Sad.

[Justin Z]

[ri Alban]

6 hours ago, manaliveits105 said:

Hope you have a watch that doesn't need batteries

Solar powered. Aw naw, don't tell me the Sun is running oot.

 

 

[Boris]

6 hours ago, JustinT said:

Totally agree.

 

The snp are an extremist nationalist party that has one purpose for its existence that is to separate Scotland from England/rest of the UK. The snp relies heavily upon failure and acrimony as it simply must create arguments for separation whether true or false. Separation would from its outset have begun on a platform of falsehoods as it would have been built upon very mostly upon dubious fake manufactured deception deliberately deployed by the snp in order to achieve their singular objective. No thanks. 

 

Can you give an example of SNP extremism?

 

Dubious, fake, manufactured...you could be referring to Better Together...

[jake]

The collapse of the labour vote in northern England is in my opinion similar to what's happened in Scotland.

I think Corbyn's policies were on the whole something both sets of voters wouldn't be against.

Anti semitism didnt play a part again my opinion.

For me it's all cumulative.

Northern England labour voters from generations before have always voted Labour.

They are anything apart from the ignorant described ironically by those who say they are left leaning.

They feel let down by Labour as Scotland has .

Labour took for granted it's working class base.

Ignored on a variety of issues especially in Northern England i.

We had the SNP to spearhead our discontent .

What options did they have and perhaps if you can view it that way maybe you can see where they are coming from.

In my experience the parts of England which turned their backs on Labour are very aware of politics and quite rightly felt Labour were not worth a vote.

As has Scotland.

[Dawnrazor]

Dawn Butler who's running for the Deputy Leaders role was on the tele this morning and said, in a debate abour transgenderism, that "babies are born without sex" that's sure to get millions behind her!

 

[dobmisterdobster]

33 minutes ago, Dawnrazor said:

Dawn Butler who's running for the Deputy Leaders role was on the tele this morning and said, in a debate abour transgenderism, that "babies are born without sex" that's sure to get millions behind her!

 

 

Not sure what to say other than in a sexually dimorphic species like humans, the baby's sex is determined at conception by the father's reproductive cells.

 

The fact that a high-ranking politician doesn't understand a basic biological fact is unsettling.

[JustinT]

2 hours ago, Boris said:

Can you give an example of SNP extremism?

 

Dubious, fake, manufactured...you could be referring to Better Together...

Nationalism is extremism, fact. I take it you're a nationalist and don't care for being Better Together?

[JustinT]

2 hours ago, jake said:

The collapse of the labour vote in northern England is in my opinion similar to what's happened in Scotland.

I think Corbyn's policies were on the whole something both sets of voters wouldn't be against.

Anti semitism didnt play a part again my opinion.

For me it's all cumulative.

Northern England labour voters from generations before have always voted Labour.

They are anything apart from the ignorant described ironically by those who say they are left leaning.

They feel let down by Labour as Scotland has .

Labour took for granted it's working class base.

Ignored on a variety of issues especially in Northern England i.

We had the SNP to spearhead our discontent .

What options did they have and perhaps if you can view it that way maybe you can see where they are coming from.

In my experience the parts of England which turned their backs on Labour are very aware of politics and quite rightly felt Labour were not worth a vote.

As has Scotland.

Good points about Labour's collapse. The Snp are demonstrating the same failures as Labour did though. Council Taxes are due to increase drastically, the Cal Mac Ferry fiasco, The children's hospital debacle, Derek Mackay, Alex Salmond, public fiscal spending cuts, cuts to public services etc etc. The Snp though don't care about failure and perversely crave it as they'll take any opportunity to shift blame onto big bad Westminster. The people of Scotland are growing very tired of Snp failur, their excuses and deliberate warfare against the UK. The Snp are a one policy party and for them its all about separation.  We deserve far far better than an extremist nationalist separatist Snp party that not only delivers failure but seeks it in order to shift blame onto Westminster and the UK.

Edited February 20, 2020 by JustinT

[Costanza]

Extremism: the fact of someone having beliefs that most people think are unreasonable and unacceptable

 

There are many valid criticisms of the SNP but poor use of hyperbole to demonstrate an individual point of view, doesn't add anything substantive to the debate.

 

[JustinT]

6 minutes ago, Costanza said:

Extremism: the fact of someone having beliefs that most people think are unreasonable and unacceptable

 

There are many valid criticisms of the SNP but poor use of hyperbole to demonstrate an individual point of view, doesn't add anything substantive to the debate.

 

I disagree with you. The Snp are fundamentally a 'nationalist cult' That is in my book an extremist one. It has only one reason for existing which is Scottish nationalism. It is based around one policy only.

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by JustinT

[Justin Z]

I'm going to break something to you that may be hard to take, so be sure you're sitting down:

 

Nobody cares what's in your book.

[Costanza]

Extremist. Cult. One policy entity.

These are just base soundbites and you're adding nothing of value to the debate. 

 

[JustinT]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

I'm going to break something to you that may be hard to take, so be sure you're sitting down:

 

Nobody cares what's in your book.

55% did just a few years ago when we the Scots voted to decisively remain within the UK.

[Justin Z]

You can be absolutely certain that within the margin of measurable, statistical error, zero out of that 55% cared what's in your book, either.

[JustinT]

 

Just now, Justin Z said:

You can be absolutely certain that within the margin of measurable, statistical error, zero out of that 55% cared what's in your book, either.

I'll keep making reasoned points and observations and you continue with your nonsense gifs and insults, ok with you?