The Labour party

[Justin Z]

58 posts of complete tripe and you're getting upset at other people simply reacting the way your contributions deserve. "Making reasoned points and observations"--your dog and your parents' opinions don't count.

 

If you wanna carry on as comic relief for the board, that's absolutely fine by me, pal.

[JustinT]

1 minute ago, Justin Z said:

58 posts of complete tripe and you're getting upset at other people simply reacting the way your contributions deserve. "Making reasoned points and observations"--your dog and your parents' opinions don't count.

 

If you wanna carry on as comic relief for the board, that's absolutely fine by me, pal.

Excellent post once again from Justin Z. Why be reasoned and civil when insults and gifs do the trick instead. 

 

I'm going to ignore your posts from now on and refrain from replying to your posts. As I said I'll continue to make reasoned points and observations you carry on doing what it is you do. 

[Justin Z]

Yes, you do that, as you were on my ignore list from about post 4 but I was having such fun with your inanity as I kept seeing it quoted.

 

Before you go though, lemme guess: You're a fan--a devotee, even--of Ben Shapiro, am I right?

 

Edit: Oh, and . . .

  

14 minutes ago, JustinT said:

Excellent post once again from Justin Z.

. . . thank you very much.

Edit 2: Reasoned points and observations  

 

 

Edited February 20, 2020 by Justin Z

[Boris]

10 hours ago, JustinT said:

Nationalism is extremism, fact. I take it you're a nationalist and don't care for being Better Together?

So you are an extremist then, by your own definition, given your British nationalism.

I'd like Scotland to govern itself and wouldn't see myself as nationalist, per se. 

[Alex Kintner]

I just don’t know what to think in terms of Labour now. The expert political commentator I follow on Twitter seems to have had a complete meltdown and done a 180° turn when it comes to Labour so I’m so confused. Do I believe what they said before or believe what they’re saying now? To make matters worse, they’ve now decided to exile themselves from Twitter so I’m lost.

 

.

 🤷🏻‍♂️

Edited February 21, 2020 by Alex Kintner

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

I just don’t know what to think in terms of Labour now. The expert political commentator I follow on Twitter seems to have had a complete meltdown and done a 180° turn when it comes to Labour so I’m so confused. Do I believe what they said before or believe what they’re saying now? To make matters worse, they’ve now decided to exile themselves from Twitter so I’m lost.

 

.

 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

Lawson?

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

I just don’t know what to think in terms of Labour now. The expert political commentator I follow on Twitter seems to have had a complete meltdown and done a 180° turn when it comes to Labour so I’m so confused. Do I believe what they said before or believe what they’re saying now? To make matters worse, they’ve now decided to exile themselves from Twitter so I’m lost.

 

.

 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

[sadj]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Lawson?

Surely that would be expert on everything? I do believe however on this occasion you are correct. I could write a 5 word sentence here , however in his honour this is a paragraph to explain nothing and a paragraph to touch on the subject and set me it up so i can write a novel. 
 

It hasn’t gone down well either , seems a number of people haven’t appreciated his latest tweets on twatter. Between questioning his motives , his “attacks” on Riley etc and accusations of him being very unsavoury in his comments to some about their mental health. 

[Nookie Bear]

20 minutes ago, sadj said:

Surely that would be expert on everything? I do believe however on this occasion you are correct. I could write a 5 word sentence here , however in his honour this is a paragraph to explain nothing and a paragraph to touch on the subject and set me it up so i can write a novel. 
 

It hasn’t gone down well either , seems a number of people haven’t appreciated his latest tweets on twatter. Between questioning his motives , his “attacks” on Riley etc and accusations of him being very unsavoury in his comments to some about their mental health. 

 

Ha!

 

I find Lawson's tweets interesting in a way but always get the impression he has read his history, he has checked his facts, he has considered his position, but he has no sense of the prevailing mood or feeling in the country, or any region of it. In that respect, he reminds of Rees-Mogg. I suppose that's what happens when you are commentating from South America. 

[Justin Z]

5 hours ago, Boris said:

So you are an extremist then, by your own definition, given your British nationalism.

I'd like Scotland to govern itself and wouldn't see myself as nationalist, per se. 

 

As usual, Boris, you have far more patience and tact than I do.

 

But yes, exactly, and yet he's also somehow shocked when people simply laugh at his self-contradictory, reactionary, ridiculous "reasoned points and observations".

[Alex Kintner]

2 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Lawson?

Yes. Not sure how I’m going to interpret the current political hotbed without his on-the-pulse musings. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, Alex Kintner said:

Yes. Not sure how I’m going to interpret the current political hotbed without his on-the-pulse musings. 🤷🏻‍♂️

That’s not another flounce out of the room, is it?

 

👋🏻 

[maroonlegions]

[Dawnrazor]

14 minutes ago, maroonlegions said:

Well thats the smoking gun right there!!! Political reporter seen with political advisor, I bet thats the first time thats ever been seen because that absolutely never happens!!!

[John Findlay]

2 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

One day you will have a thought of your own.

[Haken]

Haven't read all this thread and don't normally say too much on political threads.  But it always strikes me as interesting that experienced Scottish Labour figures like Gordon Brown or Alasdair Darling don't stand as MSPs and take on the SNP.  It's almost as though it's not worth their time financially.

 

A strong government needs a strong opposition.

[Nookie Bear]

3 hours ago, maroonlegions said:

Got the source of that Dominic Cummings quote yet? 

[Nookie Bear]

More fake news from our political correspondent. The picture is a photoshopped fake...

 

 

[JustinT]

17 hours ago, Boris said:

So you are an extremist then, by your own definition, given your British nationalism.

I'd like Scotland to govern itself and wouldn't see myself as nationalist, per se. 

For the record I've stopped replying to scottish nationalists who in my opinion are hoping to silence and fake news the Scottish electorate into separating the Scots from the rest of the UK. Just because I don't reply to them doesn't mean they've silenced me or won any argument. Its because its pointless being drawn into their extremist view of a singular extreme nationalist viewpoint. I hate nationalism and flag waving. We're better together as part of a united UK in my opinion. I won't be replying to you again boris.

[jack D and coke]

Funny signing up for a football board to tell people they’re extremist nationalists who are hoodwinked by a cult and shoehorning his seethe into literally every post. The No Thanks avatar is hilarious too. 
They need to wise up and see just exactly what they’re shovelling in other people’s direction. 
I think my country would be better governing itself. I don’t hate anyone and don’t even particularly like the SNP. Perhaps if they could engage their brain they’d also realise voting yes and voting SNP are completely different things. 

Edited February 22, 2020 by jack D and coke

[Justin Z]

6 hours ago, JustinT said:

For the record I've stopped replying to scottish nationalists who in my opinion are hoping to silence and fake news the Scottish electorate into separating the Scots from the rest of the UK. Just because I don't reply to them doesn't mean they've silenced me or won any argument. Its because its pointless being drawn into their extremist view of a singular extreme nationalist viewpoint. I hate nationalism and flag waving. We're better together as part of a united UK in my opinion. I won't be replying to you again boris.

 

Translation: "For the record I've stopped replying to people who say they're not nationalists but whom I deem as such because I don't have any 'reasoned points and observations' to rebut anything they say. Just because I don't reply to them doesn't mean I won't repeatedly claim that I do. It's because I hold an extremist view of a singular extreme nationalist viewpoint. I hate nationalism and flag waving that doesn't involve the Union Jack. We're better together as part of a united, nationalist UK in my opinion. I won't be challenged on my self-contradictory shite boris."

 

[The Mighty Thor]

5 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

Funny signing up for a football board to tell people they’re extremist nationalists who are hoodwinked by a cult and shoehorning his seethe into literally every post. The No Thanks avatar is hilarious too. 
They need to wise up and see just exactly what they’re shovelling in other people’s direction. 
I think my country would be better governing itself. I don’t hate anyone and don’t even particularly like the SNP. Perhaps if they could engage their brain they’d also realise voting yes and voting SNP are completely different things. 

That's not a hearts supporter. 

This one is the type to have Wales v Belgium VHS in a drawer somewhere. 👍

[Boris]

8 hours ago, JustinT said:

For the record I've stopped replying to scottish nationalists who in my opinion are hoping to silence and fake news the Scottish electorate into separating the Scots from the rest of the UK. Just because I don't reply to them doesn't mean they've silenced me or won any argument. Its because its pointless being drawn into their extremist view of a singular extreme nationalist viewpoint. I hate nationalism and flag waving. We're better together as part of a united UK in my opinion. I won't be replying to you again boris.

 

You are more than entitled to your opinion, as others are theirs.  Pity you can't see your own contradiction regards nationalism.

 

I know you aren't going to answer this, but you may read it: don't you think it is possible to want an independent Scotland without being a Scottish nationalist?

[pablo]

18 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

You are more than entitled to your opinion, as others are theirs.  Pity you can't see your own contradiction regards nationalism.

 

I know you aren't going to answer this, but you may read it: don't you think it is possible to want an independent Scotland without being a Scottish nationalist?

 

I'll answer it, if I may. Yes, I'm sure you can find a supporter of separation who isn't a nationalist. In the same way you occasionally meet an old firm fan who isn't a bigot. It's possible, but unusual. 

[Montgomery Brewster]

11 hours ago, Haken said:

Haven't read all this thread and don't normally say too much on political threads.  But it always strikes me as interesting that experienced Scottish Labour figures like Gordon Brown or Alasdair Darling don't stand as MSPs and take on the SNP.  It's almost as though it's not worth their time financially.

 

A strong government needs a strong opposition.

These jokers have other fish to fry. 
 

Brown is yesterday’s man that gets wheeled out to ramble on about better together every now and then. Although haven’t seen him much lately so maybe the pennies finally dropped that nobody listens to windbags stuck in a colonial Britain that no longer exists.

[jack D and coke]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Thor said:

That's not a hearts supporter. 

This one is the type to have Wales v Belgium VHS in a drawer somewhere. 👍

That’s for certain. A strange fella. This one and Lawson. 

[The Mighty Thor]

9 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

That’s for certain. A strange fella. This one and Lawson. 

Aye. Another interloper joining the board for some unmoderated, unchallenged shite-housery, which generally ends with a long standing member getting an extended period on the naughty step for telling them to do one.  

[Justin Z]

1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

I'll answer it, if I may. Yes, I'm sure you can find a supporter of separation who isn't a nationalist. In the same way you occasionally meet an old firm fan who isn't a bigot. It's possible, but unusual. 

 

An exceptionally blinkered view considering the remarkable diversity you'd see at any independence march. The flags of 50 or more countries--most certainly including the other members of the Union--represented. Sans Antarctica I saw at least one from every continent.

 

What a strange fiction people must invent for themselves to try to claim that independence--governing one's own country--is abnormal. That it must be the product of a fictional sort of nationalism, invented in their fevered little heads.

[jack D and coke]

13 minutes ago, The Mighty Thor said:

Aye. Another interloper joining the board for some unmoderated, unchallenged shite-housery, which generally ends with a long standing member getting an extended period on the naughty step for telling them to do one.  

It’s hilarious. From post number one this tube has tried to flame the board. 

[jack D and coke]

10 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

An exceptionally blinkered view considering the remarkable diversity you'd see at any independence march. The flags of 50 or more countries--most certainly including the other members of the Union--represented. Sans Antarctica I saw at least one from every continent.

 

What a strange fiction people must invent for themselves to try to claim that independence--governing one's own country--is abnormal. That it must be the product of a fictional sort of nationalism, invented in their fevered little heads.

Really is pretty mental to think that Scotland, to them, is merely somewhere like Yorkshire and also much better when governed by public schoolboys toffs. You notice armies and stuff are brought into a lot too. Absolutely love war. 

[pablo]

37 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

An exceptionally blinkered view considering the remarkable diversity you'd see at any independence march. The flags of 50 or more countries--most certainly including the other members of the Union--represented. Sans Antarctica I saw at least one from every continent.

 

What a strange fiction people must invent for themselves to try to claim that independence--governing one's own country--is abnormal. That it must be the product of a fictional sort of nationalism, invented in their fevered little heads.

 

To be honest with you, you prove time and time again that you understand next to nothing about this country or it's people. On top of that you have no skin in the game, other than wanting to stay her when your university finishes. 

 

That's cool, and I hope it works out for you, and your view is as valid as anyone else's. But I think you talk shite on this topic. 

[Justin Z]

5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

To be honest with you, you prove time and time again that you understand next to nothing about this country or it's people. On top of that you have no skin in the game, other than wanting to stay her when your university finishes.

 

To be honest with you, I am happy for someone who would list their location as "North Britain" to conclude I understand next to nothing about this country or its people, and to think I talk shite on this topic.

 

On top of that, I have a significant amount of skin in this game, having invested heavily in putting down roots here. It makes absolutely no economic sense for the United Kingdom or for me to be in the position of getting chucked out in two weeks, but here I am. I am white and English speaking so I have not been targeted directly by these ten years of jingoistic, exclusionary Tory nationalism. But I have been caught up in it nonetheless.

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Justin Z

[pablo]

13 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

To be honest with you, I am happy for someone who would list their location as "North Britain" to conclude I understand next to nothing about this country or its people, and to think I talk shite on this topic.

 

On top of that, I have a significant amount of skin in this game, having invested heavily in putting down roots here. It makes absolutely no economic sense for me or for the United Kingdom to be in the position of getting chucked out in two weeks, but here I am. I am lucky to be white and English speaking so I have not been targeted directly by these ten years of actual nationalism--jingoistic, exclusionary Tory nationalism. But I have been caught up in it nonetheless.

 

As I said, that's fine. But what roots have you put down? Do you own property, have a pension, kids in the education system, pay any income tax? 

 

You're right our half arsed British racism will seem like a walk in the park if you have to return to your own version complete with lynchings, Rodney King style beatings and just generally one of the most backward racially divided countries in the world. Good luck.

 

 

[coconut doug]

12 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

Got the source of that Dominic Cummings quote yet? 

 

The comment was in was made by a journalist called Watt i think who was commenting on a paper Cummings had written for Michael Gove. The link below gives a critique of the report and confirms Cummings eugenic credentials.  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/15/dominic-cummings-wealth-genes-inequality  The guardian also links the report so you can do as i did and read a few pages and get a feel for Cummings thought processes and philosophy. 

      To me it is clear he is an old school eugenicist who holds the poor in contempt or second class citizens at best and tries to justify this view on the poor having inferior genes. The quote is only partly verbatim but the sentiment absolutely clear. 

  Thanks to ML for drawing our attention to this. 

[coconut doug]

33 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

To be honest with you, you prove time and time again that you understand next to nothing about this country or it's people. On top of that you have no skin in the game, other than wanting to stay her when your university finishes. 

 

That's cool, and I hope it works out for you, and your view is as valid as anyone else's. But I think you talk shite on this topic. 

 

Despite disagreeing with Justin Z from time to time i am genuinely impressed with his understanding of matters Scottish and have said so previously. Maybe we don't all have the same life experiences or perspective and our views often seem entrenched and perhaps it takes someone from outside to shed a little light on our issues. His ability to deconstruct opposing arguments is clearly a massive irritant to many but i applaud him for having done so. 

    To say he doesn't understand because he is not from here or has no skin in the game is a dangerous view to have IMO. Telling him he talks shite is  just an insult as is comparing Indy supporters with the old firm. I wonder how many Rangers fans fall into the Indy category. 

 

Any time you want to demonstrate your knowledge and understanding on pertinent matters please be assured that i am prepared to discuss things amicably open mindedly. 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

The comment was in was made by a journalist called Watt i think who was commenting on a paper Cummings had written for Michael Gove. The link below gives a critique of the report and confirms Cummings eugenic credentials.  https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/oct/15/dominic-cummings-wealth-genes-inequality  The guardian also links the report so you can do as i did and read a few pages and get a feel for Cummings thought processes and philosophy. 

      To me it is clear he is an old school eugenicist who holds the poor in contempt or second class citizens at best and tries to justify this view on the poor having inferior genes. The quote is only partly verbatim but the sentiment absolutely clear. 

  Thanks to ML for drawing our attention to this. 

Does Cummings make the actual statement that maroonlegions attributed to him?

[coconut doug]

22 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

Does Cummings make the actual statement that maroonlegions attributed to him?

 

Not as far as i can see. The exact words of the meme appear to have been written by somebody called Watt when paraphrasing Cummings comments in his report.

 

Do you think that the sentiments expressed are inaccurate?

[Nookie Bear]

13 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

Not as far as i can see. The exact words of the meme appear to have been written by somebody called Watt when paraphrasing Cummings comments in his report.

 

Do you think that the sentiments expressed are inaccurate?

So it’s a quote applied incorrectly to someone to make a point. A lie. Expect that from the Tories, or Trump, but not the moralising left. 
 

As I said in the post, there is enough mud to sling without fabricating crap to back up your agenda. The same goes for using blatantly photoshopped pictures. If you’re using those tactics to try and get your message across then you’re losing whatever argument you’re trying to make. 

[coconut doug]

1 hour ago, Nookie Bear said:

So it’s a quote applied incorrectly to someone to make a point. A lie. Expect that from the Tories, or Trump, but not the moralising left. 
 

As I said in the post, there is enough mud to sling without fabricating crap to back up your agenda. The same goes for using blatantly photoshopped pictures. If you’re using those tactics to try and get your message across then you’re losing whatever argument you’re trying to make. 

 

ML did not attribute the quote to Cummings, that is your interpretation. This quote is Will Black's take after having read 237 pages of Eugenicist rubbish written by somebody who has no qualifications in the subject. here's his article https://medium.com/@willblack_53220/forget-cumberbatch-see-what-brexit-manipulator-really-thinks-of-you-a9aa346bbc16  The quote is a summary of his thoughts.

  Neither is it mud slinging or a lie as you claim unless of course you believe that Cummings is not a eugenics believer.

  I do agree that photoshopped images are not helpful but some are meant to be humorous and shouldn't be taken too seriously. This one merely puts the BBC editor close to the Tories. If you want to read more into then that is up to you. 

[Dawnrazor]

7 minutes ago, coconut doug said:

 

ML did not attribute the quote to Cummings, that is your interpretation. This quote is Will Black's take after having read 237 pages of Eugenicist rubbish written by somebody who has no qualifications in the subject. here's his article https://medium.com/@willblack_53220/forget-cumberbatch-see-what-brexit-manipulator-really-thinks-of-you-a9aa346bbc16  The quote is a summary of his thoughts.

  Neither is it mud slinging or a lie as you claim unless of course you believe that Cummings is not a eugenics believer.

  I do agree that photoshopped images are not helpful but some are meant to be humorous and shouldn't be taken too seriously. This one merely puts the BBC editor close to the Tories. If you want to read more into then that is up to you. 

Is Dominic Cumming being a "eugenics believer" based on this " Cummings said he believed rich would-be parents would inevitably select embryos with “the highest prediction for IQ” and floated the idea that “a national health system should fund everybody to do this” to avoid an unfair advantage for the wealthy"?

[Justin Z]

4 hours ago, pablo said:

As I said, that's fine. But what roots have you put down? Do you own property, have a pension, kids in the education system, pay any income tax?

 

Yes, not yet, I'm childfree, and I haven't been given the opportunity to.

 

My master's tuition was not exactly cheap either--we international students have to pay through the nose.

 

4 hours ago, pablo said:

You're right our half arsed British racism will seem like a walk in the park if you have to return to your own version complete with lynchings, Rodney King style beatings and just generally one of the most backward racially divided countries in the world. Good luck.

It is not a pleasant thought, at all. Nor is it pleasant watching No 10 do everything in its power to emulate it.

 

Edited February 22, 2020 by Justin Z

[Justin Z]

Thanks @coconut doug, I appreciate that very much.

 

[Nookie Bear]

1 hour ago, coconut doug said:

 

ML did not attribute the quote to Cummings, that is your interpretation. This quote is Will Black's take after having read 237 pages of Eugenicist rubbish written by somebody who has no qualifications in the subject. here's his article https://medium.com/@willblack_53220/forget-cumberbatch-see-what-brexit-manipulator-really-thinks-of-you-a9aa346bbc16  The quote is a summary of his thoughts.

  Neither is it mud slinging or a lie as you claim unless of course you believe that Cummings is not a eugenics believer.

  I do agree that photoshopped images are not helpful but some are meant to be humorous and shouldn't be taken too seriously. This one merely puts the BBC editor close to the Tories. If you want to read more into then that is up to you. 

When you print a set of words in quotation marks, over a picture of Dominic Cummings and his name at the bottom...you are attributing a quote. To try and deny it is pointless and I would have more respect if ML just owned up the fact he copied and pasted without checking. 
 

If he is a eugenic believer then I assume there would be numerous actual quotes you can use. 
 

And did ML come across as being humorous when he used the photoshopped pic? He sounded quite upset, as a further attack on the principles he holds dear. Was it “humorous” when the Daily Record photoshopped Skacel spitting on Lennon? How about I post a pic of you photoshopped with young Thai boys? 
 

It’s funny when it’s a clear photoshop job - not when it’s a deliberate attempt to mislead. 

[maroonlegions]

And the Tories sink to new lows.

 

What kind of reptile mutant  would even think this up, what kind of mid set do you need to be an utter b*******.

 

Work until you are 75, then  retire  and if you need your state pension you can work for it, yes that's right work for the fecking money you have already worked for in your contributions all of your working fecking life..

 

 

 

 

BBC.COM

 

Retired 'could work for pension'

 

[maroonlegions]

On 22/02/2020 at 16:50, Nookie Bear said:

When you print a set of words in quotation marks, over a picture of Dominic Cummings and his name at the bottom...you are attributing a quote. To try and deny it is pointless and I would have more respect if ML just owned up the fact he copied and pasted without checking. 
 

If he is a eugenic believer then I assume there would be numerous actual quotes you can use. 
 

And did ML come across as being humorous when he used the photoshopped pic? He sounded quite upset, as a further attack on the principles he holds dear. Was it “humorous” when the Daily Record photoshopped Skacel spitting on Lennon? How about I post a pic of you photoshopped with young Thai boys? 
 

It’s funny when it’s a clear photoshop job - not when it’s a deliberate attempt to mislead. 

Its really funny that you get upset every time one of your kind is seen for what they really are,cold hearted reptiles, who in no way serve the people...    Cummings is a eugenics believer.. 

[maroonlegions]

Brutal.

 

EDINBURGHLIVE.CO.UK

 

 

Hard-working Edinburgh residents paying more in council tax than London's super-rich

[maroonlegions]

Fecking reptile.

 

And some on here attack Labour..

 

Remember this @George?
Is he even aware of the suffering he has caused  and still are causing to so many people.?