The silence from FOH

[wavydavy]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Pretty sure the people at the club are aware as well without foh issuing some sort of statement which goes against what they say they will do.

 

Yes but there seems to be a lot of teflon coatings around in that area.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

I think it seems the only language that AB and her pals on FOH understand, money that is. AB herself actually said that the fans must be happy with things because of our season ticket sales so she equates money first above the fans enjoyment.

 

What she forgets is that people buy their season tickets mostly before a ball has been kicked and I hardly think too many would be buying them now.

 

In fact if the rules for ordinary shopping applied to season tickets then there would be a lot of folk demanding a refund.

 

Why would anyone be entitled to a refund?

 

[wavydavy]

Just now, graygo said:

 

Why would anyone be entitled to a refund?

 

 

Because what is on offer is rubbish and not value for money. If you buy goods in a shop like that then most decent shops offer a refund.

 

I am not expecting to get a refund it was just a way of putting the point over.

[Bull's-eye]

We need a statement so we can all criticise the statement. 

 

That'll sort everything out.

[graygo]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

Because what is on offer is rubbish and not value for money. If you buy goods in a shop like that then most decent shops offer a refund.

 

I am not expecting to get a refund it was just a way of putting the point over.

 

A season ticket guarantees a seat at games, nothing about entertainment, nothing about winning games. You know that though, just venting.

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

A season ticket guarantees a seat at games, nothing about entertainment, nothing about winning games. You know that though, just venting.

 

If you know I know it why say it again? Are you not just venting as well then?

[graygo]

Just now, wavydavy said:

 

If you know I know it why say it again? Are you not just venting as well then?

 

Aye, venting is good. Nothing wrong with venting.

[Prof]

22 minutes ago, Paulp74 said:

This season is a write off. Levein will be in charge for the rest of the season IMO.

 

That is the depressing conclusion I have come to. If that is how it turns out then Levein’s reputation will be in absolute tatters. 

[wavydavy]

1 minute ago, graygo said:

 

Aye, venting is good. Nothing wrong with venting.

 

I suppose it depends a lot on where it comes from. 

[Rocky jamboa]

2 minutes ago, Prof said:

That is the depressing conclusion I have come to. If that is how it turns out then Levein’s reputation will be in absolute tatters. 

As will Budge's!

[Ernie Eskilsson]

3 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Anyone cancelling dd because we are playing shite are idiots, FOH is about the long game. 

 

I really think you're wide of the mark wanting them involved,much as I think this farce has gone on long enough. 

Anyone calling fellow fans idiots is wide of the mark. This isn’t only about us playing shite it is about; CL’s horrendous style of football which is both mind-numbingly boring to watch and ineffective,  our taking only 31 points from the last 105, about his failure to develop a great crop of youngsters, his over-reliance on loan deals, his recruitment of poor/injured/over-the-hill players, his stubbornness in continually selecting (f’ing protecting in his words) poor performing players, his messing about with our defence which in times of trouble he should be seeking to stabilise (he’s started with 3 at the back in each of the last 4 games and had to change every time as it hasn’t worked).

 

It is unhealthy to have our manager on the Board as despite Ann’s statement he is NOT being held to account. He is in season 6 of his 5 year plan and we’re going backwards. Not one youngster, Hickey’s current form notwithstanding, has developed into a first team regular. 

 

FOH is not in place to direct the manager BUT we don’t blindly donate over £10m for our opinion not to be heard. The FOH must ensure, as a minimum, that the Board is fully aware of the views of loyal, sensible supporters. The FOH is an amazing group but the club ignores its views at its peril.

[JamboAl]

2 hours ago, Walter Bishop said:

There has been nothing to be positive about for at least a year, we are going in the wrong direction all over the club and if we are not careful we could see ourselves back in the championship. 

 

I know you are one of leveins fan boys and a happy clapper to boot, so as everything in your garden is rosey, carry on supporting your man, I'm sure you'll end up with all you hoped for. 

Your second paragraph gives the show away.

It's not really about FoH, is it?

Edited October 6, 2019 by JamboAl

[jayjay]

4 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Anyone cancelling dd because we are playing shite are idiots, FOH is about the long game. 

 

I really think you're wide of the mark wanting them involved,much as I think this farce has gone on long enough. 

Wrong! The people that are continuing to pay despite being taken the piss out of are the idiots...... Easily swung about.

[Coco]

It is not just the FoH representatives who are too quiet.  There are non executive directors on the Board who are supposed to temper, guide and discipline the executive management.  I don't believe any of them have the courage to go against Budge and Levein.

 

And the fans are too quiet too.  Hard to believe that any other club's supporters would be so quiet about a manager with such a poor record.

[jambali]

4 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

I don't see that as their role at all. We aren't getting a vote on the manager or team selection and with some of the horrific opinions on here I'm glad. 

 

 

- and even when FoH are the largest share holder, that will be the case, thank goodness!

 

I don't mind their silence, but when I hear the FoH board regurgiteting Craig's comments like "after 4 or 5 games" it's clear they are following a party line. They don't need to do that either.

[leginten]

1 minute ago, Coco said:

It is not just the FoH representatives who are too quiet.  There are non executive directors on the Board who are supposed to temper, guide and discipline the executive management.  I don't believe any of them have the courage to go against Budge and Levein.

 

And the fans are too quiet too.  Hard to believe that any other club's supporters would be so quiet about a manager with such a poor record.

 

As a support we are super-tolerant. We even have fans who are so supine that they regard any suggestion that we should be doing better as “entitlement”. Desperate to toe the party line, I suppose in an attempt to show that they are better fans than the critics. 

[taylor75]

When the federation of hearts take over do you think hearts should get rid of the directors box seating?

[davemclaren]

Just now, taylor75 said:

When the federation of hearts take over do you think hearts should get rid of the directors box seating?

Yes, make them stand. 

[jambogemz]

3 hours ago, portobellojambo1 said:

I think we need to understand that there is a distinction between the board of the football club and the FoH board, along with those items which will be referred back to the major shareholding (the FoH contributors) once that shareholding has changed hands. The football side of the business will continue to be run by the football board and FoH will continue to have two representative on the board. What defers back to the contributors will continue to be as is, i.e. the name of the club, the colours to be worn by the club, where the club is based and finally whether or not the major shareholding stays with the fans or would be sold to a third party. The latter part is possibly the most significant. At the moment the major shareholding isn't held by the contributors, it is held by Bidco. The shareholding will move to FoH once the original loan has been repaid in full. Withdrawing contributions would create one of two situations, the first being that it would take longer for the shareholding to change hands, the second being that the present holder of the major shareholding could look at alternative means of repayment, one of those being that the shareholding, in effect the club, is sold to an outside third party. While I don't think this would be considered, it is an option and shouldn't be ignored by those considering ceasing contributions. The football board are aware of the feelings of the fans, it is for them to act accordingly.

Great post. PJ1

[Walter Bishop]

1 hour ago, JamboAl said:

Your second paragraph gives the show away.

It's not really about FoH, is it?

Yeah, it is. But we all know your agenda. 

 

 

[Walter Bishop]

20 minutes ago, taylor75 said:

When the federation of hearts take over do you think hearts should get rid of the directors box seating?

The federation, When they taking over?

[pettigrewsstylist]

I want them to do exactly as they are. Now is not their/ our time.

Good example from them so far i think.

[JamboAl]

3 minutes ago, Walter Bishop said:

Yeah, it is. But we all know your agenda. 

 

 

Read the first reply to your OP.

 

[sadj]

****ing hell what a thread

[Marvin]

6 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

Anyone cancelling dd because we are playing shite are idiots, FOH is about the long game.

 

I really think you're wide of the mark wanting them involved,much as I think this farce has gone on long enough. 

 

I said as much in yesterday's match thread.

[Maple Leaf]

5 hours ago, graygo said:

Did everyone miss the bit about FoH not getting involved with footballing matters with the club?

 

I think I did.  What I recall was the FoH statement that they would not publicise confidential discussions in the HMFC boardroom.

 

I could be wrong.

[graygo]

32 minutes ago, Maple Leaf said:

 

I think I did.  What I recall was the FoH statement that they would not publicise confidential discussions in the HMFC boardroom.

 

I could be wrong.

 

The main channel connecting both boards will continue to be via the two Foundation directors who serve as non-executive directors on the club board. In keeping with that structure and ethos, the Foundation won’t comment publicly on any club related matters and that extends to first team performances.

 

http://www.blogfoundationofhearts.org

 

Edit: I can see how I might have misunderstood what is being said here.

[taylor75]

3 hours ago, Walter Bishop said:

The federation, When they taking over?

Oops...foundation ment 

[Rudy T]

Fans are threatening to cancel DD’s out of frustration and anger. It’s the only thing left that they think will get the message through to Ann Budge that CL needs shown the door. Unfortunately it’s entirely counterproductive but I can understand why it’s now becoming a possibility for some.

 

There was a glimmer of hope after Hibs and Aberdeen. But it’s over now it’s clear to see and if he remains DDs will start getting cancelled it’s inevitable, whether that makes them idiots or not doesn’t matter it will start happening.

[andi17]

18 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

Until professional, unbiased decisions are made in the best interests of the team, fans will remain suspicious of cliques or closed shops. 

 

Maybe some people with more power in these organisations than the ordinary fan on the street are deciding from their own standpoint what stance should be taken rather than gathering info from what the wider audience think?

BRAVO 

[Francis Albert]

I am getting a bit tired of the "fan owned not fan run" mantra. We are fan run at the moment ... by one particular fan.

The real issue is how fans who own the club and fans generally  can influence the way the club is run. No-one thinks the fans should pick the team.or formation (the old "fan run" straw man) even if as at present they could hardly do a worse job. 

The current FoH governance arrangements are IMO just too hands off with just a minority of non-exec club board members. No other buyer putting up £10m plus would accept (or ever has accepted) such a hands off remote influence/control.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

FOH really do need to step up here. They are completely invisible at the moment and that’s not acceptable given the state we’re in. If they think that they can get away with doing nothing then they’re sadly mistaken. This is a serious test for them it’s been a poor show.

[afanderson33]

On 07/10/2019 at 19:41, Francis Albert said:

I am getting a bit tired of the "fan owned not fan run" mantra. We are fan run at the moment ... by one particular fan.

The real issue is how fans who own the club and fans generally  can influence the way the club is run. No-one thinks the fans should pick the team.or formation (the old "fan run" straw man) even if as at present they could hardly do a worse job. 

The current FoH governance arrangements are IMO just too hands off with just a minority of non-exec club board members. No other buyer putting up £10m plus would accept (or ever has accepted) such a hands off remote influence/control.

 

The difference is we are being run by a Craig Levein fan, not a Hearts fan.

[OTT]

On 07/10/2019 at 19:41, Francis Albert said:

I am getting a bit tired of the "fan owned not fan run" mantra. We are fan run at the moment ... by one particular fan.

The real issue is how fans who own the club and fans generally  can influence the way the club is run. No-one thinks the fans should pick the team.or formation (the old "fan run" straw man) even if as at present they could hardly do a worse job. 

The current FoH governance arrangements are IMO just too hands off with just a minority of non-exec club board members. No other buyer putting up £10m plus would accept (or ever has accepted) such a hands off remote influence/control.

 

Indeed. 

 

There has to be an avenue for the FOH making the fans feelings known when it reaches a certain point. I think when polls for the manager are coming up 90% GTF the board need to take action. Its disappointing that it has gotten to this point, and you'd have hoped surely, that having FOH reps on the board would provide the board with a finger on the pulse to fan feeling. 

 

Whilst I do understand as things stand that Budge is the majority shareholder, when things change we can't have this sort of situation where the biggest* shareholder is being roundly ignored by the board. For frivolous shit, yes I get it. Day to day involvement, absolutely not. But when the expectation of the fans are being so comprehensively failed there needs to be noise from the foundation. 

 

I do understand the need for a CEO to be able to work without interference from a third party, that makes sense. But given the significance of the footballing side of the business its surely an area where the FOH are qualified to weigh in and at least make clear the fan unrest regarding results. 

 

I do understand its a slippery road to go down, for example, we're sitting 4th, we get pumped 5-0 by Celtic, there will be an element of the support screaming for change. Obviously that wouldn't qualify for what I'm talking about. The underachievement under Levein has been so continuous and consistent that I think the fans are well within their rights to call for change.   

[Guest ToqueJambo]

48 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

FOH really do need to step up here. They are completely invisible at the moment and that’s not acceptable given the state we’re in. If they think that they can get away with doing nothing then they’re sadly mistaken. This is a serious test for them it’s been a poor show.

 

Is it in the FoH’s mandate to pressure the club to sack the manager? I suppose they could survey contributors and present findings but they can’t just take it upon themselves to demand change can they?

[Rudy T]

22 minutes ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Is it in the FoH’s mandate to pressure the club to sack the manager? I suppose they could survey contributors and present findings but they can’t just take it upon themselves to demand change can they?

 

If the FoH board members have to tell AB and the rest of the board that the fans aren’t happy, then in all honesty all hope is lost. They can’t demand anything, pay AB and the game changes, which is why no one should be cancelling. It should be noted if we (foh) can’t pay AB back she can flog the club to someone else.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Rudy T

[Kiwidoug]

All I know is that I've been bitterly disappointed for three years now.  How can we possibly have got everything so badly wrong on the field for so long.

 

Levein may not be the only problem but he should have been shifted ages ago.  Holding three key positions is simply wrong, particularly when has under performed so badly.

 

We're possibly putting FoH at risk now.  Things are that bad and they can't be fully examined and resolved until Levein has gone.

[Guest ToqueJambo]

8 minutes ago, Rudy T said:

 

If the FoH board members have to tell AB and the rest of the board that the fans aren’t happy, then in all honesty all hope is lost. They can’t demand anything, pay AB and the game changes, which is why no one should be cancelling. It should be noted if we (foh) can’t pay AB back she can flog the club to someone else.

 

Exactly. She knows full well the mood amongst the fans.

[graygo]

1 hour ago, ToqueJambo said:

 

Exactly. She knows full well the mood amongst the fans.

 

Of course she does, which makes a mockery of folk screaming about getting the message across. What they really mean is they are going to apply pressure until she gives them what they want. I won't call it bullying as some get upset at that. (For the record I already have on another thread)

[Coco]

By this point the non-executive directors on the club Board should be looking to remove the Director of Football given his dreadful performance.   

 

However, looking at the Board directors - and one of them in particular - how can they be expected to take an independent view of the executives?

 

https://www.iod.com/services/information-and-advice/resources-and-factsheets/details/What-is-the-role-of-the-NonExecutive-Director

 

[1874robbo]

7 minutes ago, Coco said:

By this point the non-executive directors on the club Board should be looking to remove the Director of Football given his dreadful performance.   

 

However, looking at the Board directors - and one of them in particular - how can they be expected to take an independent view of the executives?

 

https://www.iod.com/services/information-and-advice/resources-and-factsheets/details/What-is-the-role-of-the-NonExecutive-Director

 

Safest job in football 

[CJGJ]

15 minutes ago, Coco said:

By this point the non-executive directors on the club Board should be looking to remove the Director of Football given his dreadful performance.   

 

However, looking at the Board directors - and one of them in particular - how can they be expected to take an independent view of the executives?

 

https://www.iod.com/services/information-and-advice/resources-and-factsheets/details/What-is-the-role-of-the-NonExecutive-Director

 

Why should they be looking to remove him?...just because you say so

 

Well sorry I don't agree and would not want to put that type of pressure on people who are trying to help the club and FOH

 

Getting pretty close to bullying in my opinion

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Just now, CJGJ said:

Why should they be looking to remove him?...just because you say so

 

Well sorry I don't agree and would not want to put that type of pressure on people who are trying to help the club and FOH

 

Getting pretty close to bullying in my opinion

Bullying?

[CJGJ]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

Bullying?

Perhaps if you were able to see the abuse they are already receiving from a minority of idiots then you might change your tune

 

I expected more of you and yes it is 'bullying' if people are writing to you demanding things change or else

 

Still your fine where you are seems to be your viewpoint

[Walter Bishop]

8 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Perhaps if you were able to see the abuse they are already receiving from a minority of idiots then you might change your tune

 

I expected more of you and yes it is 'bullying' if people are writing to you demanding things change or else

 

Still your fine where you are seems to be your viewpoint

Bullying?

 

So in your opinion did Levein "bully" Vanececk?  Was he bullying his players after his interview at the weekend? 

 

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

17 minutes ago, CJGJ said:

Perhaps if you were able to see the abuse they are already receiving from a minority of idiots then you might change your tune

 

I expected more of you and yes it is 'bullying' if people are writing to you demanding things change or else

 

Still your fine where you are seems to be your viewpoint

 

Trying to patronise from a position of idiocy as usual!

[Jodami]

Realistically I can appreciate that the 2 FoH reps on the board are in a delicate situation. They may well be pushing for Levein to be removed but ultimately it seems that Budge is the decision maker. I wouldn't expect them to make any public statements either.

 

This is the short term we are discussing though. I presume that when we take over next year then every single director will be voted on by the FoH members. That would be to endorse the current board members and select new ones. In the unlikely (or is it!!) scenario that Levein is still on the board then is it not almost certain he would be removed on the back of that vote. 

[Forever Hearts]

1 hour ago, CJGJ said:

Why should they be looking to remove him?...just because you say so

 

Well sorry I don't agree and would not want to put that type of pressure on people who are trying to help the club and FOH

 

Getting pretty close to bullying in my opinion

You really are a delicate little flower.

 

Bullying. 😂

[davemclaren]

43 minutes ago, Jodami said:

Realistically I can appreciate that the 2 FoH reps on the board are in a delicate situation. They may well be pushing for Levein to be removed but ultimately it seems that Budge is the decision maker. I wouldn't expect them to make any public statements either.

 

This is the short term we are discussing though. I presume that when we take over next year then every single director will be voted on by the FoH members. That would be to endorse the current board members and select new ones. In the unlikely (or is it!!) scenario that Levein is still on the board then is it not almost certain he would be removed on the back of that vote. 

Don’t think that’s how it will work. 

[Jodami]

27 minutes ago, davemclaren said:

Don’t think that’s how it will work. 

How do you see it working Dave? I had presumed the members would select a chairperson and a board for a fixed term in the way that other fan owned clubs do. I am a bit remiss and looking at my FoH communications, is there a structure they have already outlined.