Hickey’s at the wheel

[Last Laff]

12 minutes ago, letsalldothebeattie said:

I get Aaron has the potential and could go all the way in the game but im not comfortable with throwing big money at him, he has just come into the team, the lad is on a couple hundred a week if that to then go a throw 10k at him a week is excessive and turning us into the English clubs. 1-2k a week no more is sensible and if we need to after that up it to another sensible amount

 

Fair point.  My fear is our past recent history of managing to balls up decent transfer money for all the players we have brought through.  I would hate for him to go elsewhere on the cheap if he doesn’t sign a new contract. 

[Jambo83]

33 minutes ago, Last Laff said:

 

Yes because the club didn’t benefit from giving Craig Gordon, the last player with this amount of potential, a massive wage rise.  The last thing we need it the player to give the excuse he wasn’t valued or wanted enough when his head will be spinning all over the place. 

Bit different to be fair.  Gordon was older and an established international footballer with a European reputation.  I can recall Buffon praising him when he was with us.

[Last Laff]

8 minutes ago, farin said:

We prob just hedged our bets & instead of paying out a compensation fee at the beginning decided to go for a sell on clause of 30% instead. 

 

 

Celtic wanted to keep him as they saw his potential that’s why this clause has (apparently) been inserted.  It’s a ridiculous amount instead of a small compensation fee - they’ve seen us coming and now we are developing the player and giving him game time to benefit Celtic massively too.  Sickening the thought of them getting a massive amount of money for him having him only been there a year. 

[Last Laff]

Just now, Jambo83 said:

Bit different to be fair.  Gordon was older and an established international footballer with a European reputation.  I can recall Buffon praising him when he was with us.

 

True.  

[Bull's-eye]

Best to enjoy watching him playing in a Hearts shirt at the moment, yes I know it's difficult for the JKB booboys to enjoy watching Football. But, it doesn't look like we're going to be able to hold onto him for very long despite the poor training and shambles of a medical team. 

 

With all the hindrances he faces playing for us and still being able to put in a shift must equate to a valuation of about £20m so the 30% is small change really.

[Homme]

He's a fully fledged first team squad member. Given his potential I reckon you would offer around the average wage for our first team that way there is scope to improve over the years or when milestones are reached. 

 

If his progress continues we will net a decent transfer fee at some point. Got to speculate to accumulate sometimes. 

[tokyowalnut]

32 minutes ago, Notts1874 said:

Short answer. It doesn't and shouldn't.

 

But I demand klarifikashun!

 

[Forrest]

3 hours ago, Barack said:

Doesn't really matter if he's Light Years ahead on Pluto. It's a ridiculous thing to say.

 

 

A light year is a measure of distance, not time 👨‍🎓

 

IMO, release on a free transfer to one of our USA tie-ups, with a 95% sell-on for an immediate move to Man City. 

 

In a similar way to Webster to Wigan then Rangers, but with us benefitting this time.

Edited October 1, 2019 by Forrest

[shed1874]

47 minutes ago, Noah Claypole said:

Best to enjoy watching him playing in a Hearts shirt at the moment, yes I know it's difficult for the JKB booboys to enjoy watching Football. But, it doesn't look like we're going to be able to hold onto him for very long despite the poor training and shambles of a medical team. 

 

With all the hindrances he faces playing for us and still being able to put in a shift must equate to a valuation of about £20m so the 30% is small change really.

You have chosen not to watch Hearts.

[JamboAndrew]

1 hour ago, Notts1874 said:

Short answer. It doesn't and shouldn't.

This.

 

It never ceases to amaze me how angry people can get at baseless gossip.

 

Maybe, let's pass judgement after he, hopefully, moves for mega money. As if, and that's a big if, there is a 30% sell on fee, then the west coast media will sing about it from the rooftops.

 

Given his age and the restrictions around contracts and all that I'd actually be surprised. As that's why the development fee exists, as young kids can't be tied into contractual obligations.

[Jambo 4 Ever]

1 hour ago, Noah Claypole said:

Best to enjoy watching him playing in a Hearts shirt at the moment, yes I know it's difficult for the JKB booboys to enjoy watching Football. But, it doesn't look like we're going to be able to hold onto him for very long despite the poor training and shambles of a medical team. 

 

With all the hindrances he faces playing for us and still being able to put in a shift must equate to a valuation of about £20m so the 30% is small change really.

hopefully the training will get sorted soon

[Bull's-eye]

12 minutes ago, shed1874 said:

You have chosen not to watch Hearts.

 

[kila]

£5m in January with him joining City but back on us on loan to the end of the season with another year loan following. The boy is clearly going places, and he'll end up at a big club. City seem like the ones sniffing about most, with Meshino and the youth academy tournaments already showing a good relationship. That sort of money to City is peanuts/low risk for such a promising young player.

 

Celtic will probably spend their cut on more disco lights for their recurring big Champions League nights.

 

 

[Shanks]

30% sell on fee to celtic, ****ing hell.

[Heres Rixxy]

I love how everyone is an expert on contracts and scouting.

 

It was clear 2 years ago Hickey would be a better player than Wighton? Was it?

 

We should have had the foresight and paid for Hickey to avoid a sell on clause? What about the dozens of other players you've never heard of where this probably happened and it worked in our favour?

 

Hindsight is a beautiful thing!

[upgotheheads]

30 minutes ago, Longshanks said:

30% sell on fee to celtic, ****ing hell.

 

No doubt when we sell him there will be a sell-on clause. Swings and roundabouts.

[Mikey1874]

1 minute ago, upgotheheads said:

 

No doubt when we sell him there will be a sell-on clause. Swings and roundabouts.

 

Celtic will invest the money in their youth set up.

 

Leading to more good players coming to Hearts. 

[KyleLafferty]

I thought Hickey left Celtic on his own accord? 

[Sid]

What exact age did we make the call on Hickey where we should have known beyond doubt he would develop as well and as quickly as he has and thrown hundreds of thousands of pounds on him?  
Cochrane looked like he was something special when he burst onto the scene. Luke we have been right to give him a wage cap busting contract? Time will tell but Hickey could stall and Cochrane kick on. 
point is, at a very young age, very difficult to make such a big financial call especially for a club like ours only just rebuilding our financial structure. Giving away x% of potentially nothing is better than couple of hundred grand on a speculative call. 
hindsight is a wonderful thing for challenging a club stance. 

[buzzbomb]

If Man City want Hickey at say £2M, to avoid paying Celtic a sell-on fee, sell them Hickey for £20K and another youth player for £2M, then buy back the other youth player for £20K.

[stevie1874]

42 minutes ago, buzzbomb said:

If Man City want Hickey at say £2M, to avoid paying Celtic a sell-on fee, sell them Hickey for £20K and another youth player for £2M, then buy back the other youth player for £20K.

Can you imagine the seethe from the media 😂

[shed1874]

1 hour ago, Sid said:

What exact age did we make the call on Hickey where we should have known beyond doubt he would develop as well and as quickly as he has and thrown hundreds of thousands of pounds on him?  
Cochrane looked like he was something special when he burst onto the scene. Luke we have been right to give him a wage cap busting contract? Time will tell but Hickey could stall and Cochrane kick on. 
point is, at a very young age, very difficult to make such a big financial call especially for a club like ours only just rebuilding our financial structure. Giving away x% of potentially nothing is better than couple of hundred grand on a speculative call. 
hindsight is a wonderful thing for challenging a club stance. 

 

Hearts are and have been in discussion's with Hickey's father its a slow process as player is young.

 

Hickey exploded onto the scene at parkhead then the next week scottish cup final. No one out with Hearts had interest until then. 

 

Hickey has become a regular since giving his potential earnings a boost. As far as I'm aware the intention is for him to progress at Hearts on same deal with added renegotiated pay bonuses structure. I'm led to believe Hearts can't change the timeline at the present time until he is 18

Edited October 1, 2019 by shed1874

[buzzbomb]

38 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

Can you imagine the seethe from the media 😂

It's what I'd do...

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 hours ago, Smithee said:

 

I don't claim to know his contract situation at Celtic, but could development fees have been waived in exchange for a sell on?

 

 

 

Why would they be entitled to a development fee? We developed him first then he jumped ship to them and after not being offered a pro contract comes back to us. Unless I've got that all wrong. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

7 hours ago, DS98 said:

£7-£10k 😂😂😂

 

It’s a bit early on a Tuesday to be on the vodka

 

Maybe not they're 11 hours ahead in kiwi land! 

[on&up2017]

5 hours ago, Notts1874 said:

Short answer. It doesn't and shouldn't.

I agree.

What I didn’t add, and should have.  If & when we sell Hickey, if it is confirmed a 30% sell on fee has been agreed instead of paying a minimal development fee, then and only then should an explanation be sought. Hope that clears things up, gents.

[Bazzas right boot]

5 hours ago, Last Laff said:

 

Celtic wanted to keep him as they saw his potential that’s why this clause has (apparently) been inserted.  It’s a ridiculous amount instead of a small compensation fee - they’ve seen us coming and now we are developing the player and giving him game time to benefit Celtic massively too.  Sickening the thought of them getting a massive amount of money for him having him only been there a year. 

 

 

It's not sickening, it's perfectly sensible thing for a club to do if possible. 

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, on&up2017 said:

I agree.

What I didn’t add, and should have.  If & when we sell Hickey, if it is confirmed a 30% sell on fee has been agreed instead of paying a minimal development fee, then and only then should an explanation be sought. Hope that clears things up, gents.

 

 

It's perfectly clear. 

 

We paid no money up front and celtic agreed to a sell on clause. 

 

At the time it suited both clubs. 

 

It's perfectly clear. 

Couldn't be clearer tbh. 

 

 

[Getintaethem]

2 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

It's perfectly clear. 

 

We paid no money up front and celtic agreed to a sell on clause. 

 

At the time it suited both clubs. 

 

It's perfectly clear. 

Couldn't be clearer tbh. 

 

 

 

Dont you think that was bad business on our part?

[Heriot_jambo]

Hypothetically what would happen if Celtic bought him, would they have to pay only 70% of the agreed fee or would the whole sell on thing be void? 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Getintaethem said:

 

Dont you think that was bad business on our part?

 

Nope. 

 

Just means we need to whack on more when negotiating if and when bids come in. 

 

£10m, nope need to be £15m cos celtic are getting £5m. 😉

 

It is what it is, we got the player that was the important thing in all this. 

 

It could have been better, but whatever happens it's not bad business. 

Good player for us, if we sell for money, then it's all good. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

8 minutes ago, farin said:

 

You do have it all wrong I’m afraid, Aaron left us & went to Celtic for 4 years, they developed him. They did offer him a pro contract which he turned down, so when he signed for us we were then due Celtic a development fee. Instead of paying it we negotiated a sell on fee with them instead of paying out for him upfront. 

 

So in fact the only thing I got wrong was the fact they offered him a pro deal.And how do we know our development prior to going there was not more beneficial?  Seems a situation lawyers will drool over.  

[ford donald]

6 hours ago, on&up2017 said:

30% sell on fee, really!?  

 

This needs clarified by the club, one way or the other.  If it is true and we had the option of a small composition fee then it is really been badly mismanaged. I'll probably get pelters for being negative and having a go at Levein, I am not, if it were any management structure overseen by someone other than him it would still be poorly dealt with.

 

We need foresight and forward thinking and planning, not standing still in any department of the club, especially the football side.

 Looks like a gamble from Hearts point of view,looks a bit stupid now.

[Neon]

Assuming the sell on clause is only until the end of his current contract, Hold on to him until then sign a new deal and sell him to the club he wants to go to.

 

[Unknown user]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

So in fact the only thing I got wrong was the fact they offered him a pro deal.And how do we know our development prior to going there was not more beneficial?  Seems a situation lawyers will drool over.  

 

It's got nothing to do with how beneficial the time was, development fees are based on the amount of time spent with each club, there's a specific formula to work it out.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

It's got nothing to do with how beneficial the time was, development fees are based on the amount of time spent with each club, there's a specific formula to work it out.

 

See the big smilie face at the end?

[Unknown user]

1 minute ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

See the big smilie face at the end?

 

Jesus, that was meant to be funny?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Smithee said:

 

Jesus, that was meant to be funny?

 

For anyone with a modicum of humour I suppose. Thus ruling you out. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

2 minutes ago, farin said:

 

A sports lawyer would love to hypothesis the pros & cons of it I’ll bet. 😄

 

We took a punt on a youngster not knowing if it would pay off, if we do sell him on for a large fee Celtic will get their cut but we’ll still be quids in on the deal in the end. 

 

What will piss our fans off is that it's the wealthiest club in the league (and for others another reason altogether) but I suspect that is the exact reason they felt powerful enough to stipulate this. The club will no doubt put some kind of sell on clause in any future move for he lad which, if his development continues at this pace, will out do the sellik one in monetary terms. 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

For anyone with a modicum of humour I suppose. Thus ruling you out. 

Well obviously, and we all know you're famed for having a right good larf, I should have known better!

 

But anyway, you asked, and now you know why Celtic were due a development fee, happy days eh?

[Unknown user]

 

18 minutes ago, neonjambo said:

Assuming the sell on clause is only until the end of his current contract, Hold on to him until then sign a new deal and sell him to the club he wants to go to.

 

I very much doubt that, it'll be valid until his registration is transferred to another club, and if a fee is involved in that transfer they'll get their share. 

[shed1874]

On paperwork Hickey is a developing youth player in reality he's played big games from knowhere thrust into the big time.

A multi talented modern player making his way in his career while studying and taking the bins out.

The fans believe in his abilities for his age some fear he will be burnt out lose his way or fail. Other's see a world class player on a different level to his peers with the world at his feet. Heart's are in control along with his father they are seeking to re package the present deal until they can legally negotiate agan . By that time Hickey will have a full season at Pro level with more expeience and admirers many more millions will be offered. Hearts can only wait 

[Spoleto]

Jeez. Yet another thread with people bumping their gums about something they know nothing about and turning a positive into a negative. 

 

Really!!

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

 

It's not sickening, it's perfectly sensible thing for a club to do if possible. 

 

It is.

 

And behind the scenes I understand there is an element of cooperation and goodwill between most clubs over young players and their development.

 

Having a good relationship with the Celtic youth set up is not the worst thing in the world. If Celtic youngsters see Hickey doing well more will come to us having had a good foundation. 

 

It isn't the same as hating Celtic which I mostly do. Any money they get will be spent on their youth set up. So that's money recycled for the good of the Scottish game. 

[stevie1874]

If Hearts were to sell him, It might be better selling him to a Southampton rather than a top English club with a sell on clause. If he is a success the bigger clubs come calling at mega bucks and if he’s already at a big club then no sell on clause. 

[Kiwidoug]

9 hours ago, DS98 said:

£7-£10k 😂😂😂

 

It’s a bit early on a Tuesday to be on the vodka

I call it an investment.  Never mind.  I see that the BBC now report Hickey as a Celtic story.  In a way I'm glad our national team is such a failure.  The whole game is so Glasgow centric.

[Mikey1874]

3 minutes ago, Kiwidoug said:

I call it an investment.  Never mind.  I see that the BBC now report Hickey as a Celtic story.  In a way I'm glad our national team is such a failure.  The whole game is so Glasgow centric.

 

Scotland doing well (sort of) was the only period it lessened.

 

Outside the rare challenges like the early 80s under Jim MacLean and Ferguson..

[TheBigO]

27 minutes ago, stevie1874 said:

If Hearts were to sell him, It might be better selling him to a Southampton rather than a top English club with a sell on clause. If he is a success the bigger clubs come calling at mega bucks and if he’s already at a big club then no sell on clause. 

Southampton you say. Interesting

[graygo]

3 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Why would they be entitled to a development fee? We developed him first then he jumped ship to them and after not being offered a pro contract comes back to us. Unless I've got that all wrong. 

 

Every team involved in a  player's development from age 12 to 23 gets a cut of future transfer fees.

 

Annexe 4 and 5 if anyone can be ersed reading it. Obviously Hearts and Celtic have agreed to circumvent this.

 

https://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/regulations_on_the_status_and_transfer_of_players_en_33410.pdf

Edited October 1, 2019 by graygo

[hmfcbilly]

1 hour ago, stevie1874 said:

If Hearts were to sell him, It might be better selling him to a Southampton rather than a top English club with a sell on clause. If he is a success the bigger clubs come calling at mega bucks and if he’s already at a big club then no sell on clause. 

Never done celtic any harm selling van dijk to Southampton. Longer term, I reckon we would get more money via a sell on as he will likely have more chance to develop at Southampton than man city. I'd rather he stayed for 2 or 3 more seasons at least and continued to develop with hearts though