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The Frenchman Returns

Council reveals £314m overhaul of Edinburgh centre

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The Frenchman Returns
50 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

I agree with that. As an example all the buses coming in from Corstorphine through Murrayfield now go along Princes Street. Why isn't there a route going up Morrison Street and then maybe going passed the University , or through the Meadows and directly to the Royal Infirmary. That would cause less congestion at the east end of Princes Street and the North Bridge where there is often a bus snarl up. 

That’s a very good example. If the 31 which goes through Haymarket, Princes St and then up the Bridges was rerouted via the Meadows it would serve a wider area, reduce congestion and speed up the journey time. 

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Seymour M Hersh
16 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

 

The council has its head up its arse and are a complete waste of skin.

 

True dat! 

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Seymour M Hersh
11 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

 

 

On another note...the city bypass is not fit for purpose and  they can’t widen it. They need to build a bypass on top of the bypass. This should run from the M8/Hermiston direct to the A1 (possibly one on/off ramp for emergency vehicles) with no on/off ramps along it.  If you would need to come off at any point, then you go on the bottom and if you want to go the full length, then you go on the top, spreading the flow of traffic and easing congestion.

 

Perhaps banning lorries from overtaking each other would help the traffic flow. 

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Mikey1874
16 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

As  I said it's around the 500k mark. 

 

And increasing every year 

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frankblack
4 hours ago, FWJ said:

Which greenways don’t have a frequent bus service (and what is ‘frequent’). Also - if the bus is slower aren’t you going to encourage more people to drive the route instead - reversing any benefit?

 

Off the top of my head, Telford Road has a couple of buses on it that run around 30 mins plus.

 

Why are motorists penalised when they don't make use of the greenway.

 

Quote

The 20mph limits are in places with lots of pedestrians and were put in place as a safety measure.

 

 

I think that argument doesn't hold up except around schools.  Examples - why have 20mph on Granton or Drumbrae Drive but not Clermiston Road or Drumbrae Road?

 

Quote

 Don’t know about traffic lights, but I agree, they shouldn’t change immediately.  Isn’t there someplace where there is a countdown on pedestrian crossings which helps to encourage pedestrians from crossing before green - sounds like a good idea to me.

 

London has that.  Seems to work.

 

Quote

ISTR that avoiding all buses going through Princes Street is one of the things that the Council are looking into (maybe in this review). There is also early talk of a tram going from Haymarket to Nicholson Street via Morrison Street and Lauriston Place as an alternative east-west crossing. 

I’ve a feeling that if more buses are routed via George Street or Queen Street people would complain about that too though.

 

I’m not anti-car, I’ve got one and I occasionally drive through town, but I’m quite prepared to take 4th place behind pedestrians, trams and buses.

 

I used to drive to work but don't have parking now I'm at Haymarket so have a bus card.

 

There are other things that cause congestion that need reviewed - positioning of bus stops near traffic lights, removal of the bays for buses to pull off the road at bus stops causing tailbacks.

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Mikey1874

Just looking at the response to the survey 

 

1. They are going to do more 'traffic modelling' to look at impacts of closing streets 

 

2. They accept there will be some "initial" effects on business of closing streets 

 

3. All the changes will be monitored against travel times, bus use, activity, vehicle movements 

 

My worry is the Council doing what they want and the challenge is to take people with them, though there are always a vocal minority with strong views. 80% of people seem to support this. 

 

 

Edited by Mikey1874

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Dunks
9 hours ago, Old Castle Rock said:

The button on pedestrian crossings should have a 30 second delay for safety reasons and give motorists and CYCLIST'S a chance to stop, they go to red instantly and people walk out trusting the traffic to break in an instant 

 

That just isn't true.

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luckyBatistuta
On 08/09/2019 at 09:11, Old Castle Rock said:

They build these cycle segregated lane's and cyclist still use the road's and pavements up and down Leith Walk 

 

Hardly see any cyclists use them.

 

9 hours ago, Old Castle Rock said:

The button on pedestrian crossings should have a 30 second delay for safety reasons and give motorists and CYCLIST'S a chance to stop, they go to red instantly and people walk out trusting the traffic to break in an instant 

Whoever signed this present system off clearly has never done a road test it's very dangerous especially in wet and wintery conditions 

 

Cyclists a chance to stop :lol: why would they do something they don’t want to 🙀

 

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Stuart Lyon
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

Just looking at the response to the survey 

 

1. They are going to do more 'traffic modelling' to look at impacts of closing streets 

 

2. They accept there will be some "initial" effects on business of closing streets 

 

3. All the changes will be monitored against travel times, bus use, activity, vehicle movements 

 

My worry is the Council doing what they want and the challenge is to take people with them, though there are always a vocal minority with strong views. 80% of people seem to support this. 

 

 

The 80% who support this are the 2400 people from the 3000 respondents to the CeC's request for comments on the proposal 0.6% of Edinburgh's population!!!!!! Hardly grounds for going ahead with it.

Edited by Stuart Lyon

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frankblack
42 minutes ago, Stuart Lyon said:

The 80% who support this are the 2400 people from the 3000 respondents to the CeC's request for comments on the proposal 0.6% of Edinburgh's population!!!!!! Hardly grounds for going ahead with it.

 

My guess would be the survey was primarily circulated to cycling and other groups likely to back them.  The first I heard of it was after their consultation ended, and I do follow Edinburgh interest groups.

 

The anti car approach of this council will eventually see offices relocating out of Edinburgh.

Edited by frankblack

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Cade

The bike lanes on Leith Walk aren't officially open yet.

They were left half done last year and filled in with pishy tarmac that's going to be dug up when the work commences.

That's why nobody uses them

Edited by Cade

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pablo
54 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

 

The anti car approach of this council will eventually see offices relocating out of Edinburgh.

 

Can't see that happening anytime soon tbh.

 

There's a chronic shortage of Grade A office space in Edinburgh. That's why it changes hands for more than anywhere else except London. Many clients are from the professional services and the tech industry, very few clients request parking spaces and development are mostly pre let before completion. Semple Street and Capital Square for example. 

Edited by pablo

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frankblack
1 hour ago, pablo said:

 

Can't see that happening anytime soon tbh.

 

There's a chronic shortage of Grade A office space in Edinburgh. That's why it changes hands for more than anywhere else except London. Many clients are from the professional services and the tech industry, very few clients request parking spaces and development are mostly pre let before completion. Semple Street and Capital Square for example. 

 

If your office isn't by a train station you need car parking for your employees to get there that live in Fife, the Lothians, Borders etc.

 

If you are a serious company you want to recruit the best people for the job, not just the most local.

 

If introduced, an employee parking tax would be a job killer.

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Mikey1874
2 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

My guess would be the survey was primarily circulated to cycling and other groups likely to back them.  The first I heard of it was after their consultation ended, and I do follow Edinburgh interest groups.

 

The anti car approach of this council will eventually see offices relocating out of Edinburgh.

 

I saw it and responded. Though I check the news daily because of my business.

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/should-edinburgh-city-centre-pedestrianised-15163996

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pablo
19 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

If your office isn't by a train station you need car parking for your employees to get there that live in Fife, the Lothians, Borders etc.

 

If you are a serious company you want to recruit the best people for the job, not just the most local.

 

If introduced, an employee parking tax would be a job killer.

 

I'm not sure that you understand the current economic situation in Edinburgh, the lack of Grade A office space in the market, the specifications of recent new developments or the changing needs of a modern workforce. 

 

City Centre offices such as those proposed at The Haymarket, are being built without car parking. The other concentration of commercial buildings are in West Edinburgh, which has the best connections for all modes of transport already. That only leaves Leith, which is a smaller more vibrant marketwith many agencies and the like, and that's getting a tram line anyway. 

 

Edited by pablo

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XB52
On 08/09/2019 at 09:37, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I'm not sure you are correct there. As long as I could remember our population was around the 480k mark now it's around the 500k mark. 

75000 increase in 20 years

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frankblack
5 minutes ago, pablo said:

 

I'm not sure that you understand the current economic situation in Edinburgh, the lack of Grade A office space in the market, the specifications of recent new developments or the changing needs of a modern workforce. 

 

City Centre offices such as those proposed at The Haymarket, are being built without car parking. The other concentration of commercial buildings are in West Edinburgh, which has the best connections for all modes of transport already. That only leaves Leith, which is a smaller more vibrant marketwith many agencies and the like, and that's getting a tram line anyway. 

 

 

That only works for offices near walking distance to Haymarket and Waverley.

 

This new plan will move buses further away and make it less attractive.

 

I am not just talking about financial sector here.  Big and small.

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pablo
2 minutes ago, frankblack said:

 

That only works for offices near walking distance to Haymarket and Waverley.

 

This new plan will move buses further away and make it less attractive.

 

I am not just talking about financial sector here.  Big and small.

 

Make what less attractive? Edinburgh as a key investment area (on a European level) for business and office developments? Can't see it myself, for the reasons I stated previously.

 

I think there's some good ideas in the plans. What's not in any doubt is that the population continues to grow and people will have to move around the city differently in the future.

 

 

 

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All roads lead to Gorgie
2 hours ago, Cade said:

The bike lanes on Leith Walk aren't officially open yet.

They were left half done last year and filled in with pishy tarmac that's going to be dug up when the work commences.

That's why nobody uses them

Where you get bike lanes that use part of pavements you always get pedestrians standing in them chatting away to mates or on their phone oblivious to any approaching cyclists. Even where it is obvious that paths are split such as in the Meadows pedestrians still stray into the cycle lane frequently.

Hopefully in time this problem will sort itself out with better awareness and more people cycling and walking will go a long way towards reducing congestion on the roads around the city.

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All roads lead to Gorgie

The number of tour buses on the Waverley Bridge is getting out of hand right now so making it a pedestrian only area might be a good idea. The taxi drivers might not see it that way though as they would have to go via the mound to get to the pick up in Market Street. 

The start point for the city tours would have to move somewhere. Regent Road maybe?

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luckyBatistuta
1 minute ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

The number of tour buses on the Waverley Bridge is getting out of hand right now so making it a pedestrian only area might be a good idea. The taxi drivers might not see it that way though as they would have to go via the mound to get to the pick up in Market Street. 

The start point for the city tours would have to move somewhere. Regent Road maybe?

 

I always go via the mound to get to the rank anyway, it’s way quicker. You just sit in gridlock at the Princes Street junction, because of the ruddy tram. You’re right about the tour buses though...and how that ghost bus is even allowed on the road, I’ll never know, It spews out smoke continuously.

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All roads lead to Gorgie
4 minutes ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

I always go via the mound to get to the rank anyway, it’s way quicker. You just sit in gridlock at the Princes Street junction, because of the ruddy tram. You’re right about the tour buses though...and how that ghost bus is even allowed on the road, I’ll never know, It spews out smoke continuously.

There is a bit of pavement that sticks out across from the Wetherspoons and if there are tour buses in front of it waiting to move forward they block the road there and cause some serious congestion. I wouldn't use my car on the bridge unless travelling southwards for that reason and that would be very rare as I avoid driving in the center of town now anyway. You Taxi guys do a great job getting people moving around the city especially during the summer.

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Seymour M Hersh
2 hours ago, XB52 said:

75000 increase in 20 years

 

Did you use a calculator to work that out?

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frankblack
2 hours ago, pablo said:

 

Make what less attractive? Edinburgh as a key investment area (on a European level) for business and office developments? Can't see it myself, for the reasons I stated previously.

 

I think there's some good ideas in the plans. What's not in any doubt is that the population continues to grow and people will have to move around the city differently in the future.

 

 

 

 

I'm just pointing out the obvious - firms will go elsewhere if the city is not fit to attract employees - crap public transport, engineered congestion, and a probable parking tax on employees city wide.

 

Not all firms can afford to rent office space in the city centre and those will be hammered by the parking tax.

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luckyBatistuta
37 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

There is a bit of pavement that sticks out across from the Wetherspoons and if there are tour buses in front of it waiting to move forward they block the road there and cause some serious congestion. I wouldn't use my car on the bridge unless travelling southwards for that reason and that would be very rare as I avoid driving in the center of town now anyway. You Taxi guys do a great job getting people moving around the city especially during the summer.

 

Try bud 😊 we’re not all bad. Some bad apples, as in all walks of life. I reckon that’s the worst junction in town now, since the tram started running.

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XB52
1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Did you use a calculator to work that out?

Must be better than your one that said 20000. 

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All roads lead to Gorgie
23 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

That’s a very good example. If the 31 which goes through Haymarket, Princes St and then up the Bridges was rerouted via the Meadows it would serve a wider area, reduce congestion and speed up the journey time. 

A few years ago I was on a bus from the south side which was re routed through the meadows because the North Bridge was shut, someone was threatening to jump off it or had already done so sadly. 

The bus used Lothian Road to reach the west end before turning towards Haymarket, it was still a time when turning left into Shandwick Place was allowed and I thought why isn't this a regular route at the time. 

Just remembered it did a loup of Charlotte Square I think. Anyway you get the picture. 

Edited by All roads lead to Gorgie

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Seymour M Hersh
11 hours ago, XB52 said:

Must be better than your one that said 20000. 

 

What are you wittering about?

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felix
15 hours ago, luckyBatistuta said:

 

I always go via the mound to get to the rank anyway, it’s way quicker. You just sit in gridlock at the Princes Street junction, because of the ruddy tram. You’re right about the tour buses though...and how that ghost bus is even allowed on the road, I’ll never know, It spews out smoke continuously.

 

It's not smoke, it's ectoplasm. 👻

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XB52
1 hour ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

What are you wittering about?

you were the one that made a weird post about me using a calculator. I was just pointing out that, if I had needed to use a calculator, it was obviously better than the one you must have used when you said the population had only increased by 20000 in the last 20 years.

No idea why you went off on that tangent anyway. Surely it's a good thing that people want to live and work in our city??

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felix
14 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm just pointing out the obvious - firms will go elsewhere if the city is not fit to attract employees - crap public transport, engineered congestion, and a probable parking tax on employees city wide.

 

Not all firms can afford to rent office space in the city centre and those will be hammered by the parking tax.

The council are at pains to discourage parking in new city centre office developments, and demand is high for the right sized accommodation in this sector.

 

 

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FWJ
14 hours ago, frankblack said:

 

I'm just pointing out the obvious - firms will go elsewhere if the city is not fit to attract employees - crap public transport, engineered congestion, and a probable parking tax on employees city wide.

 

Not all firms can afford to rent office space in the city centre and those will be hammered by the parking tax.

If firms can’t find the office accommodation in the city centre there is a lot more being built out in the west - as Pablo points out this is very well served by buses, trams and trains - I was out meeting someone at Edinburgh Park Station at about 8am a couple of weeks ago and was amazed at how busy it was with people getting off. I dare say the currently underused Edinburgh Gateway Station will go the same way when all the new building goes on around it. (“International Business Gateway” or something)

I would say what would attract employees to Edinburgh, especially the type it wants to attract, is its peerless medieval and Georgian core untouched by the motorway madness that gripped places like Glasgow in the 60s (indeed right up to a couple of years ago).

It is the lack of traffic and provision for it that helps make Edinburgh the place it is.

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luckyBatistuta
51 minutes ago, felix said:

 

It's not smoke, it's ectoplasm. 👻

 

I knew it was busturds that ran it

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Famous 1874

Travelling in and around Edinburgh with public transport is becoming worse and worse.

Was in Germany last week and they have got it nailed.

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TheBigO

So what about delivery vans to all the restaurants and hotels which service our tourists?

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kila
1 hour ago, TheBigO said:

So what about delivery vans to all the restaurants and hotels which service our tourists?

 

Special council golf carts with trailers. Drop food off, return leg can be shipping Americans back to the airport.

 

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TheBigO
26 minutes ago, kila said:

 

Special council golf carts with trailers. Drop food off, return leg can be shipping Americans back to the airport.

 

Its a thought!

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