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The Frenchman Returns

Council reveals £314m overhaul of Edinburgh centre

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The Frenchman Returns

Major changes are being discussed around the George IV Bridge/High Street

 

some artists impressions

George IV Bridge at Bedlam Theatre

 

The Mound

 

Forrest Road

 

George IV Bridge

 

 

 

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frankblack

Another chance for them to stick the boot into the motorist.

 

Ridiculous proposal and complete waste of money.  Its time these tossers actually spent some money on decent facilities for the residents rather than the tourists.  We are crying out for a decent size indoor music venue for big events and not some half baked rehash of the Ross Bandstand that is no use in the middle of winter.

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robroy1874

Must be so inconvenient for the Council actually having permanent residents wanting to move around in Edinburgh

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Mikey1874
3 minutes ago, robroy1874 said:

Must be so inconvenient for the Council actually having permanent residents wanting to move around in Edinburgh

 

100,000 increase in population over 20 years is the inconvenience. 

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Lemongrab

How about doing something about the state of the roads outside the city centre?  The ones a scheme like this will throw more traffic onto.

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hughesie27

Those pictures don't really suggest much change other than the bit outside Doctors?

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vegas-voss
1 hour ago, frankblack said:

Another chance for them to stick the boot into the motorist.

 

Ridiculous proposal and complete waste of money.  Its time these tossers actually spent some money on decent facilities for the residents rather than the tourists.  We are crying out for a decent size indoor music venue for big events and not some half baked rehash of the Ross Bandstand that is no use in the middle of winter.

What can they actually do to make it better for motorist it's horrendous as it is just now driving in Edinburgh.Its an old city and the infrastructure just isn't there.

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Debut 4
37 minutes ago, Lemongrab said:

How about doing something about the state of the roads outside the city centre?  The ones a scheme like this will throw more traffic onto.

All the edinburgh folk over the years who used to live centrally .now pushed to the outskirts, are becoming the forgotten people. 

 

:sadrobbo:

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Sexton Hardcastle

Should really be spending money on the massive housing crisis rather than tarting up the areas around the posh schools.

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Kennedy Bakircioglu

I'm Edinburgh born and bred. Love the suggested changes. I'd ban all car driving in the city centre. Get a bus, cycle, tram etc. People above moaning, stop being so selfish and find alternative methods of getting into the city. 

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The Frenchman Returns
54 minutes ago, hughesie27 said:

Those pictures don't really suggest much change other than the bit outside Doctors?

 

more than Forrest Road, Harry Potter World getting a step closer

 

The Edinburgh City Centre Transformation document will be considered by councillors on Thursday.

 

The strategy has been published after about 80% of locals backed the vision in the second round of public consultation.

High Street closed


As part of the strategy, Cockburn Street, Forrest Road, Victoria Street, Waverley Bridge and Lawnmarket will close to traffic - while Bank Street will be shut except for buses and taxis and Candlemaker Row will only be open to buses.

The High Street is also set to be closed to traffic between North Bridge and St Mary's Street.

 

The strategy also includes proposals for "reallocation of traffic lanes" on a host of streets including Cowgate, the Bridges corridor, Lothian Road, St Andrew Square and Princes Street.


Forrest Road will close to traffic completely


People and cycles have priority at George IV Bridge at Bedlam Theatre

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The Real Maroonblood
23 minutes ago, vegas-voss said:

What can they actually do to make it better for motorist it's horrendous as it is just now driving in Edinburgh.Its an old city and the infrastructure just isn't there.

Exactly.

Anyone who takes their car into the city centre are stupid.

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The Frenchman Returns

Victoria-Street.jpg?resize=500%2C349&ssl=1Victoria St

 

Waverley-Bridge-plaza.jpg?resize=500%2C366&ssl=1Waverley Bridge

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TheOak88

Where are they getting the money to do all this?

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Stuart Lyon
35 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

 

more than Forrest Road, Harry Potter World getting a step closer

 

The Edinburgh City Centre Transformation document will be considered by councillors on Thursday.

 

The strategy has been published after about 80% of locals backed the vision in the second round of public consultation.

High Street closed


As part of the strategy, Cockburn Street, Forrest Road, Victoria Street, Waverley Bridge and Lawnmarket will close to traffic - while Bank Street will be shut except for buses and taxis and Candlemaker Row will only be open to buses.

The High Street is also set to be closed to traffic between North Bridge and St Mary's Street.

 

The strategy also includes proposals for "reallocation of traffic lanes" on a host of streets including Cowgate, the Bridges corridor, Lothian Road, St Andrew Square and Princes Street.


Forrest Road will close to traffic completely


People and cycles have priority at George IV Bridge at Bedlam Theatre

BBC scotland article on 6/9/19

 

The strategy has been published after about 80% of locals backed the vision in the second round of public consultation

 

CeC’s own paper accessed via Twitter yesterday on progressing the plan

 

This (2nd consultation) saw almost 80% of more than 3000 respondents agreeing with aims to reduce number etc etc

 

Reading the BBC version implies that these proposals are backed by 80% of locals; by inference Edinburgh’s total population!

 

*0% of 3000 is 2400 which represent 0.6% of Edinburgh's population!!!!

 

Looking at the plans for the Mound unless this include removal of bus stops then traffic will back-up behind stopped buses as there is no room to overtake. More congestion and pollution. This is the CeC adopting another vanity project like the trams. Other cities are doing it so our "visionaries" want to do it too!

Edited by Stuart Lyon

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DETTY29

Introduce a tax where if you press your car, bus, lorry,  van, taxi, horn there is a £100 fine.

 

After 3 you are banned from driving in the city unless you pay a £10k release fee.

 

Exemptions if you can prove you were saving a life by doing so.  Preventing giving yourself a heart attack or aneurysm doesn't count.

 

Invest in a monorail.

 

Might lose world heritage status though.

 

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FWJ

Motorways on stilts - it’s the way forward.

Who wants to live in a medieval city built centuries before motorised transport?

Edited by FWJ

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been here before
3 hours ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Major changes are being discussed around the George IV Bridge/High Street

 

some artists impressions

George IV Bridge at Bedlam Theatre

 

The Mound

 

Forrest Road

 

George IV Bridge

 

 

 

 

How come artists impressions never have jakeys wearing old suit jackets along with tracky bottoms and shoes or fat gits with single crutches clinging onto their Greggs bag for dear life in them?

 

 

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Craig_

Looks great. About time we invested in more civic spaces. George Street especially could be a gem in the summer. As could Waverley Bridge, which is currently a complete mess.

 

Should be looking to get more of the private gardens opened up too. What they've done in St Andrew Square is tremendous. 

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, Kennedy Bakircioglu said:

 People above moaning, stop being so selfish and find alternative methods of getting into the city. 

 

Or stop going into the city. 

This will leave more room for students and tourists.

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Governor Tarkin
11 minutes ago, been here before said:

 

How come artists impressions never have jakeys wearing old suit jackets along with tracky bottoms and shoes or fat gits with single crutches clinging onto their Greggs bag for dear life in them?

 

 

 

Or pishing with rain and blowing a gale like it is for a fair chunk of the time.

 

The picture wouldn't look so great with some lycra clad meanace being blown sidey-ways and wiping out an old wifie struggling against the monsoon with an inside-out brolly.

 

Reality doesn't sell.

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DETTY29
25 minutes ago, FWJ said:

Motorways on stilts - it’s the way forward.

Who wants to live in a medieval city built centuries before motorised transport?

The thing is what the hell does the city do?

 

How do you make a medieval town centre fit for purpose in any generation?

 

I sympathise with councillors, when they aren't wasting money.

 

 

Edited by DETTY29

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Governor Tarkin
10 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

Should be looking to get more of the private gardens opened up too.

 

Why? These are the folk who live in the Newtown townhouses' gardens.

 

I'd sure as **** object if the council opened my private garden up for jakeys to lie about in with their tap aff and staffies to shite in.

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FWJ
16 minutes ago, DETTY29 said:

The thing is what the hell does the city do?

 

How do you make a medieval town centre fit for purpose in any generation?

 

I sympathise with councillors, when they aren't wasting money.

 

 

Exactly.

Edinburgh was not built for cars.

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All roads lead to Gorgie

They would actually be better starting to get the already pedestrianised streets like Rose Street up to scratch. The surface there is terrible with the tiles sunken in places. Open up Charlotte Sq to the public just like St Andrews Sq as well. 

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Francis Albert

Why the obsession with trees and foliage in what should be an urban environment? - George Street is being turned into some sort of linear garden centre, to be repeated in the old town it seems. The city streets should be urban with separate parks and gardens providing a contrast. As it is St Andrews Square has been converted into an extended tacky coffee shop. The heritage we have is an unplanned medieval town of high density high rise buildings, as intensely and uncompromisingly urban as anywhere but blessedly not far from open  spaces . The new town is  one of the best planned Georgian townscapes in Europe or anywhere with broad streets lined by beautiful stone buildings with uncluttered lines and vistas, with separate gardens (which should of course be opened to the public … but as they are - a contrasting oasis in the urban scene).

By all means control traffic but "beautify" the bits of the city that most need it … largely outside the old and new towns.

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Francis Albert
46 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Why? These are the folk who live in the Newtown townhouses' gardens.

 

I'd sure as **** object if the council opened my private garden up for jakeys to lie about in with their tap aff and staffies to shite in.

I have rarely seen anyone in the New Town gardens. 

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luckyBatistuta
2 hours ago, Debut 4 said:

All the edinburgh folk over the years who used to live centrally .now pushed to the outskirts, are becoming the forgotten people. 

 

:sadrobbo:

Nailed it bud.

 

2 hours ago, Kennedy Bakircioglu said:

I'd ban all car driving in the city centre. 

stop being so selfish

 

:facepalm::facepalm::facepalm:

 

54 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Or stop going into the city. 

This will leave more room for students and tourists.

 

The clowncil dream

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Francis Albert
23 minutes ago, All roads lead to Gorgie said:

They would actually be better starting to get the already pedestrianised streets like Rose Street up to scratch. The surface there is terrible with the tiles sunken in places. Open up Charlotte Sq to the public just like St Andrews Sq as well. 

Agreed. Always deserted except during the book festival. But please no tacky coffee shop structure which would be even more of an eyesore in the relatively unspoilt Charlotte Square.

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FWJ

Sorry to be a smarmy pedant about this - but it’s St Andrew Sq.  

It’s up there with “Princess Street”

 

Sorry....

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skinnybob72

While it’s a lovely idea to have all these pretty open spaces with trees and no traffic it seems to have been ignored that we live in a cold, wet and windy place most of the year. 

 

The council have already clogged the city up with the widening of pavements, replacing roundabouts with lights, bus lanes, etc. This is just an expensive extension to that. 

 

It’s all very well saying that folk with cars should use public transport but that is a rose tinted view. Public transport is slow, unreliable and relatively expensive. It takes me 30 mins to drive to work in the city (leaving at daft o’clock to avoid gridlock..) but it takes about 75 mins on public transport. I have zero intention of using public transport when it would add an extra 7.5hrs a week to my commute. 

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FWJ
6 minutes ago, skinnybob72 said:

While it’s a lovely idea to have all these pretty open spaces with trees and no traffic it seems to have been ignored that we live in a cold, wet and windy place most of the year. 

 

The council have already clogged the city up with the widening of pavements, replacing roundabouts with lights, bus lanes, etc. This is just an expensive extension to that. 

 

It’s all very well saying that folk with cars should use public transport but that is a rose tinted view. Public transport is slow, unreliable and relatively expensive. It takes me 30 mins to drive to work in the city (leaving at daft o’clock to avoid gridlock..) but it takes about 75 mins on public transport. I have zero intention of using public transport when it would add an extra 7.5hrs a week to my commute. 

I wouldn’t say public transport in Edinburgh is ‘slow, unreliable or relatively expensive’ TBH.

The thing is, if everyone wanted to drive to their work in Edinburgh then the city could not function. 

Which parts of the city centre would we knock down to build faster, wider roads and more car parks?

The Abercrombie and Plumstead plan for Edinburgh is a bit of an eye-opener.  

Motorway on stilts by Princes Street Gardens, high level fly over from Leith Street up to the Pleasance etc.

 

But if people want faster, easier driving through central Edinburgh what are we to do?

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Dunks

Disappointed at the lack of tram tracks in those images :(

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Harry Potter
3 hours ago, The Real Maroonblood said:

Exactly.

Anyone who takes their car into the city centre are stupid.

Its a lottery anyway, roads closed, roadworks, best not to try it.

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Dannie Boy
3 hours ago, Kennedy Bakircioglu said:

I'm Edinburgh born and bred. Love the suggested changes. I'd ban all car driving in the city centre. Get a bus, cycle, tram etc. People above moaning, stop being so selfish and find alternative methods of getting into the city. 

 

Better still don’t go into the city. I rarely do now. Parking is a nightmare and expensive. I’ve a bus pass but there are just a good shops on the outskirts and you can do lots of shopping of shopping on line with very good delivery times and it’s more often than not free. 

Edinburgh is more and more geared and designed for the tourist. 

As much as I’d initially balked at the thought of imposing a tourist tax based on this article I introduce it and let the tourist pick up the bill.  

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The Real Maroonblood
21 minutes ago, Harry Potter said:

Its a lottery anyway, roads closed, roadworks, best not to try it.

Exactly.

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Zlatanable
3 hours ago, TheOak88 said:

Where are they getting the money to do all this?

You can download a PDF of the plans so far, here. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/connectingplaces/downloads/file/18/city_centre_transformation_delivery_plan

 

Funding Strategy

A number of meetings were held during the preparation of this Delivery Plan to set out an overall strategy in relation to how the Programme would be funded.

  1. 7.2.1  Phase 1

    Phase 1 of the CCT programme includes the projects that are currently at varying stages of development, which will span across the first five years of the programme. These projects are expected to be funded from a mixture of developer contributions, match funding grants from Sustrans and the Council’s Capital Programme.

    George Street and First New Town and Charlotte Square both have identified funding gaps of £12.3m and £1.3m respectively. Funding for these projects will be considered as part of the transport capital allocation process for 2020 onwards.

  2. 7.2.2  Phase 2

    Currently, funding for around £0.5m of feasibility and design studies have been agreed with Sustrans. As of July 2019, confirmation of funding to carry out feasibility studies for Leith Street to Jeffrey Street, Pedestrian Priority Zone and Lothian Road has been received. The studies will be fully funded by Places for Everyone (Sustrans). Further submissions to Sustrans are to be made for the remaining £1.0m of feasibility studies.

  3. 7.2.3  Phase 3
    A number of working assumptions were made during this phase for strategy-setting purpose. The

    following options for potential sources of funding were identified:

    •   Developer Contributions: Infrastructure projects arising as a result of growth within the city can be partially funded through the recouping of funds from developers.

    •   Capital Programme: Future realignment of the Council’s capital programme, along with any additional funding that may be made available to fund Council priorities.

    •   Strategic Transport Projects Review (STPR2): STPR 1, published in 2008, was a review of large-scale inter-regional transport projects that lead to funding for projects such as the Forth Replacement Crossing and the duelling of the A9. 2018 saw agreement that a second review would take place, and it is expected that bids for elements of CCT will be made. 

    •  Sustrans / Transport Scotland: Continuation of applications to Sustrans to receive match funded grants. Construction has previously been 50/50 match funded, however Sustrans / Transport Scotland now permit other relevant projects (publicly funded or otherwise) to be included as part of a wider funding pool to match their contributions.

 

To ensure the Programme will be both deliverable and affordable, the sourcing of funds will be suitably phased in accordance during Project Set up.

Research on potential additional funding contributors, including third-party, will continue throughout the Programme.

Cost Management and Control

Based on the established cost estimate, financial reviews at key decision points will be carried out regularly to ensure the Programme can be delivered within the agreed baseline budget and funds are available for the planned expenditure.

Costs will be recorded on the Council’s financial system and monitored by the Commercial Manager. Costs will be reported back to the Programme Board on a monthly basis. All the expenditure will be closely monitored including the internal costs to ensure they are in line with the Programme baseline budget.

Programme Cashflow

A cashflow will be produced during the Programme Set Up phase taking account of all the expected funding from Sustrans and contributions from other parties.

This cashflow will be monitored on a monthly basis and will be used to understand and manage the financial aspects of the Programme. Any changes to the cashflow will be agreed by the SMT prior to implementation and a record made of the changes and reason as to their implementation.

Budget Update Procedure

A detailed budget will be produced during the Programme Set Up phase to inform the cashflow. It will be monitored on a monthly basis in coordination with the cashflow. Any changes to the budget will be agreed by the SMT and a record made of the changes and reason as to their implementation.

Budget and Cost Reporting

Cost reporting will be performed as noted in the table below:...

 

 

And the 'finalised strategy' is here, https://indd.adobe.com/view/8da3a6e5-94d7-436f-81ed-1b8b90049ed1

Edited by Zlatanable

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Governor Tarkin
1 hour ago, Francis Albert said:

I have rarely seen anyone in the New Town gardens. 

 

Probably because they're private.

 

 

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Dannie Boy
9 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

You can download a PDF of the plans so far, here. http://www.edinburgh.gov.uk/connectingplaces/downloads/file/18/city_centre_transformation_delivery_plan

 

Funding Strategy

A number of meetings were held during the preparation of this Delivery Plan to set out an overall strategy in relation to how the Programme would be funded.

  1. 7.2.1  Phase 1

    Phase 1 of the CCT programme includes the projects that are currently at varying stages of development, which will span across the first five years of the programme. These projects are expected to be funded from a mixture of developer contributions, match funding grants from Sustrans and the Council’s Capital Programme.

    George Street and First New Town and Charlotte Square both have identified funding gaps of £12.3m and £1.3m respectively. Funding for these projects will be considered as part of the transport capital allocation process for 2020 onwards.

  2. 7.2.2  Phase 2

    Currently, funding for around £0.5m of feasibility and design studies have been agreed with Sustrans. As of July 2019, confirmation of funding to carry out feasibility studies for Leith Street to Jeffrey Street, Pedestrian Priority Zone and Lothian Road has been received. The studies will be fully funded by Places for Everyone (Sustrans). Further submissions to Sustrans are to be made for the remaining £1.0m of feasibility studies.

  3. 7.2.3  Phase 3
    A number of working assumptions were made during this phase for strategy-setting purpose. The

    following options for potential sources of funding were identified:

    •   Developer Contributions: Infrastructure projects arising as a result of growth within the city can be partially funded through the recouping of funds from developers.

    •   Capital Programme: Future realignment of the Council’s capital programme, along with any additional funding that may be made available to fund Council priorities.

    •   Strategic Transport Projects Review (STPR2): STPR 1, published in 2008, was a review of large-scale inter-regional transport projects that lead to funding for projects such as the Forth Replacement Crossing and the duelling of the A9. 2018 saw agreement that a second review would take place, and it is expected that bids for elements of CCT will be made. 

    •  Sustrans / Transport Scotland: Continuation of applications to Sustrans to receive match funded grants. Construction has previously been 50/50 match funded, however Sustrans / Transport Scotland now permit other relevant projects (publicly funded or otherwise) to be included as part of a wider funding pool to match their contributions.

 

To ensure the Programme will be both deliverable and affordable, the sourcing of funds will be suitably phased in accordance during Project Set up.

Research on potential additional funding contributors, including third-party, will continue throughout the Programme.

Cost Management and Control

Based on the established cost estimate, financial reviews at key decision points will be carried out regularly to ensure the Programme can be delivered within the agreed baseline budget and funds are available for the planned expenditure.

Costs will be recorded on the Council’s financial system and monitored by the Commercial Manager. Costs will be reported back to the Programme Board on a monthly basis. All the expenditure will be closely monitored including the internal costs to ensure they are in line with the Programme baseline budget.

Programme Cashflow

A cashflow will be produced during the Programme Set Up phase taking account of all the expected funding from Sustrans and contributions from other parties.

This cashflow will be monitored on a monthly basis and will be used to understand and manage the financial aspects of the Programme. Any changes to the cashflow will be agreed by the SMT prior to implementation and a record made of the changes and reason as to their implementation.

Budget Update Procedure

A detailed budget will be produced during the Programme Set Up phase to inform the cashflow. It will be monitored on a monthly basis in coordination with the cashflow. Any changes to the budget will be agreed by the SMT and a record made of the changes and reason as to their implementation.

Budget and Cost Reporting

Cost reporting will be performed as noted in the table below:...

 

 

And the 'finalised strategy' is here, https://indd.adobe.com/view/8da3a6e5-94d7-436f-81ed-1b8b90049ed1

 

and EU funding.......................... oh wait!!! 

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Ray Gin

Sounds great. Well done Edinburgh Council. 

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Mikey1874
3 hours ago, Stuart Lyon said:

BBC scotland article on 6/9/19

 

The strategy has been published after about 80% of locals backed the vision in the second round of public consultation

 

CeC’s own paper accessed via Twitter yesterday on progressing the plan

 

This (2nd consultation) saw almost 80% of more than 3000 respondents agreeing with aims to reduce number etc etc

 

Reading the BBC version implies that these proposals are backed by 80% of locals; by inference Edinburgh’s total population!

 

*0% of 3000 is 2400 which represent 0.6% of Edinburgh's population!!!!

 

Looking at the plans for the Mound unless this include removal of bus stops then traffic will back-up behind stopped buses as there is no room to overtake. More congestion and pollution. This is the CeC adopting another vanity project like the trams. Other cities are doing it so our "visionaries" want to do it too!

 

Suppose what you are implying is people should not rely too much on consulting. Although I don't know if the Council would do what they want anyway.

 

The concern I have is whether they have tested the implications and knock on effects of the proposals. They have hired some 'expert' consultant. But previous history doesn't give complete confidence. 

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benny

Car tax for going into the City the way forward.

 

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Harry Potter
1 minute ago, benny said:

Car tax for going into the City the way forward.

 

more monies for the potless council.

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AlphonseCapone
2 hours ago, skinnybob72 said:

While it’s a lovely idea to have all these pretty open spaces with trees and no traffic it seems to have been ignored that we live in a cold, wet and windy place most of the year. 

 

The council have already clogged the city up with the widening of pavements, replacing roundabouts with lights, bus lanes, etc. This is just an expensive extension to that. 

 

It’s all very well saying that folk with cars should use public transport but that is a rose tinted view. Public transport is slow, unreliable and relatively expensive. It takes me 30 mins to drive to work in the city (leaving at daft o’clock to avoid gridlock..) but it takes about 75 mins on public transport. I have zero intention of using public transport when it would add an extra 7.5hrs a week to my commute. 

 

Don't know where in the city you live but I disagree completely.

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Zlatanable

Have I heard of this before?

Seems new to me.

I doubtless missed it.

 

So on Tuesday the council are voting on a binding acceptance of this plan?

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Mikey1874
14 minutes ago, Zlatanable said:

Have I heard of this before?

Seems new to me.

I doubtless missed it.

 

So on Tuesday the council are voting on a binding acceptance of this plan?

 

Need to keep a closer look on news if you are interested in Edinburgh. 

 

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/13899/edinburgh-residents-call-visionary-solutions-majority-backs-traffic-reduction

 

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/news/edinburgh-news/should-edinburgh-city-centre-pedestrianised-15163996

 

 

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frankblack
5 hours ago, vegas-voss said:

What can they actually do to make it better for motorist it's horrendous as it is just now driving in Edinburgh.Its an old city and the infrastructure just isn't there.

 

They are actively engineering slowdowns in the road to obstruct motorists while not running any frequent bus services on same roads.

 

Time for these clowns to ditch their vanity tram project and reverse the damage they have caused to the roads in the city.   Princes Street is gridlock at rush hour as buses have to give way to these monstrosities.

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frankblack
26 minutes ago, benny said:

Car tax for going into the City the way forward.

 

 

How will that be collected?

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Zlatanable
6 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

I accept your criticism. 

I have been mainly trying to keep up with changes in Criagmillar/Portobello.

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