Deodato Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 Loving this thread. I watched I Believe In Miracles on iTunes, and have it downloaded on all my devices as (a) I am a nervous flyer and (b) it is the most genuinely enjoyable documentary of all time. The cast of characters make it such a special achievement, and then there's the soundtrack - I don't think there's a better example of music editing in existence. To be clear, I'm not old enough to recall what he did but it is so important for people like to know about what John Roberston brought to the game ('Ryan Giggs with both feet' - a powerful description from a team mate) It's the chapter that risks being lost, so this film has a preservation value. I'd urge doubters to watch the links below and acknowledge what Clough did and the time span he did it in. Eumir Deodato But there's more. Hugh McIlvanney does a nice 25 minute documentary on what he achieved with Forrest here: And if you want to OD on Cloughie, this is a nice retrospective with family members brought into the narrative. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 38 minutes ago, H2 said: It was interesting listening to Gary Neville when he said times have changed, Man u can not go out and get any player they want, (Basically what he was alluding too Fergie times) Man U in the past would have signed Harry Kane, and others, but now they can't (because others have the finances to hold on to players and many other clubs can compete in the transfer market). Had Clough had Fergie's resources he would probably have been more successful. Now hopefully you can see the debate 🙂 and that Brian Clough is the correct answer (after Tommy Walker of course). Clough never had Fergie finances tho, so it is a hypothetical debate you are putting forward. You could be correct, however he might have went all jj with the SMG money. 😂 Fergie is also not the man Utd manager and hasn't been for about 5 years so imo Neville is talking pish. Again he doesn't know what Fergie would be doing now, he's just guessing. I'd counter and say they wouldn't be finishing 6th for a start. But again, who knows. You've also discounted saf achievements at Aberdeen. That is right up with cloughs at Forrest on it's own,imo. Ferguson is still the correct answer unless you want to talk about ifs and buts. 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2 Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Smith's right boot said: Clough never had Fergie finances tho, so it is a hypothetical debate you are putting forward. You could be correct, however he might have went all jj with the SMG money. 😂 Fergie is also not the man Utd manager and hasn't been for about 5 years so imo Neville is talking pish. Again he doesn't know what Fergie would be doing now, he's just guessing. I'd counter and say they wouldn't be finishing 6th for a start. But again, who knows. You've also discounted saf achievements at Aberdeen. That is right up with cloughs at Forrest on it's own,imo. Ferguson is still the correct answer unless you want to talk about ifs and buts. 👍 🙂 Clough brought Derby and Forrest up from nothing. Fergie took four or five years to get any success at the then so called "richest team in the world". You can add hypotheses to your or any such debate, but still struggling to your "Can't see how it is even a debate". I somehow have an inkling that maybe Gary Neville knows a bit more about it, and has a bit more credibility than you or me, don;t think Sky Sports will be offering either of s a job anytime soon.🙂. If you want to employ the best manager and have the dosh - Pep is the answer. But overall - Clough is still the correct answer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 28 minutes ago, H2 said: 🙂 Clough brought Derby and Forrest up from nothing. Fergie took four or five years to get any success at the then so called "richest team in the world". You can add hypotheses to your or any such debate, but still struggling to your "Can't see how it is even a debate". I somehow have an inkling that maybe Gary Neville knows a bit more about it, and has a bit more credibility than you or me, don;t think Sky Sports will be offering either of s a job anytime soon.🙂. If you want to employ the best manager and have the dosh - Pep is the answer. But overall - Clough is still the correct answer. Clough is good, the argument is a good one. I still think saf success at Aberdeen is under appreciated and for me he pips it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 5 hours ago, Morgan said: Money and resources, in both cases. Consider that versus what Cloughie and Taylor did on sweeties, and you’ll see my point. Oh really, who was the first £1m player and who signed him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 4 hours ago, Smith's right boot said: Clough never had Fergie finances tho, so it is a hypothetical debate you are putting forward. You could be correct, however he might have went all jj with the SMG money. 😂 Fergie is also not the man Utd manager and hasn't been for about 5 years so imo Neville is talking pish. Again he doesn't know what Fergie would be doing now, he's just guessing. I'd counter and say they wouldn't be finishing 6th for a start. But again, who knows. You've also discounted saf achievements at Aberdeen. That is right up with cloughs at Forrest on it's own,imo. Ferguson is still the correct answer unless you want to talk about ifs and buts. 👍 Again, who signed the first £1m player? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 37 minutes ago, ri Alban said: Oh really, who was the first £1m player and who signed him? Trevor Francis. Brian Clough. to you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ri Alban Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 6 minutes ago, Morgan said: Trevor Francis. Brian Clough. to you! Get in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted August 25, 2019 Share Posted August 25, 2019 1 minute ago, ri Alban said: Get in! 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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