Best manager ever?

[Bazzas right boot]

Ferguson's achievements with Aberdeen are unbelievable. 

Then to turn around man Utd... 

 

Can't see how it is even a debate. 

Won't be repeated, ever. 

 

Alex Ferguson is the correct answer. 

[Jamie86]

34 minutes ago, Morgan said:

Folk can shove Jose (a wee bit) and Pep (a big bit) right up their arse in a ‘best manager ever’ thread.

 

 

What's your arguments against both? 

[Zico]

2 hours ago, The Spy Who Loved Me said:

I must mention Giovanni Trapattoni.

 

Trapattoni guided Juventus to six Serie A championships, two Coppa Italias and all three major European Cups.

We often get a bit Anglo-centric in a debate like this and while Fergie, Stein, Busby, Shankly, Paisley and Clough should all be in the conversation, so should Trapattoni, Lippi, Sacchi, Michels and Hitzfeld. 

[rudi must stay]

Clough was a brilliant manager

 

Couldnt seperate him and Fergie, both could make any team win. It's amazing how often Ferguson got it right in the big games and that's wasn't luck, and Clough was exactly the same. Organised to a tee

Edited August 24, 2019 by rudi must stay

[King prawn]

Ferguson in my opinion

[rudi must stay]

33 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

Ferguson's achievements with Aberdeen are unbelievable. 

Then to turn around man Utd... 

 

Can't see how it is even a debate. 

Won't be repeated, ever. 

 

Alex Ferguson is the correct answer. 

 

Both had exactly the same style (attacking football, build people up)

 

Klopp and Pep are the same. Way to be as a manager

[Craig_]

11 minutes ago, Zico said:

We often get a bit Anglo-centric in a debate like this and while Fergie, Stein, Busby, Shankly, Paisley and Clough should all be in the conversation, so should Trapattoni, Lippi, Sacchi, Michels and Hitzfeld. 

 

Well said. Probably an argument for a few from back in the day too, the likes of Valery Lobanovski (Korobochka's mentor!), Herbert Chapman, Matthias Sindelar etc.

[Zico]

Just now, Craig_ said:

 

Well said. Probably an argument for a few from back in the day too, the likes of Valery Lobanovski (Korobochka's mentor!), Herbert Chapman, Matthias Sindelar etc.

Lobanovski was going to go on my list!

[Craig_]

9 minutes ago, Zico said:

Lobanovski was going to go on my list!

 

Have you read Inverting The Pyramid? Fascinating book about not only the shifts in tactics over the years, but also the characters who brought about these changes.

[rudi must stay]

I know Clough and him didn't get on but Don Revie was successful too. Interestingly, and I may be wrong with this comment but I think him and Ferguson had a similar hard style

[Zico]

3 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

Have you read Inverting The Pyramid? Fascinating book about not only the shifts in tactics over the years, but also the characters who brought about these changes.

I haven’t - one of those books that I want to read but never get round to! 

[Cruyff Turn]

33 minutes ago, Craig_ said:

 

Well said. Probably an argument for a few from back in the day too, the likes of Valery Lobanovski (Korobochka's mentor!), Herbert Chapman, Matthias Sindelar etc.

These guys were innovators of the game as well. I’d add Rinus Michels, Ernst Happel and Johan Cruyff to that list as well. 

[Weakened Offender]

1 hour ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

I forgot he won the league with Derby too, although I don’t remember as I was about 4 or 5. Great achievements with both clubs then and won their only titles, although I would argue taking Dundee Utd to the EC Semi Final was a greater achievement than doing it with Derby.  Of course  Clough won the EC twice with Forest too and they must surely be the only European club that have won the EC / CL more times than they have won their domestic title.

 

I suppose you could argue taking Dundee United to a European Cup Semi Final was a greater achievement than doing likewise with Derby County if he didn't go on to win back to back wins with Forest.

 

Had United reached that final the English set up today may have been completely different, mind. And they were robbed.

[benny]

Sir Alf Ramsay.

Ipswich Division 2 and 1 winner and off course 1966.

Nobody comes close.

[Andyp1874]

Pat Fenlon. 

[Graham Thomson]

3 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

Brian Clough was the greatest manager.

True but he was better when he had Peter Taylor with him, they were a great team! 

[Kiwidoug]

Clough was just tremendous.  Anyone remember him at Tynie.  Friendly against Forest I think.  3-0 win to them.

 

Around 30 years ago.  

[RobNox]

Brian Clough, not only a great manager but a real character (and I agree with others, Peter Taylor was an integral part of Clough's success, he was never really the same without Taylor).

 

Just so many memorable stories and quotes.  He signed Scottish hard man Kenny Burns from Birmingham where he played centre forward (iirc), and moved him to centre back at Forest.  Apparently, he always referred to Kenny as Kenneth, which somewhat detracts from the hard man persona.  He also used to refer to Teddy Sheringham as Edward.

 

I also recall him being asked what had attracted him to Roy Keane when he signed Roy for Forest, and he replied that he had beautiful eyes.

 

He loved to wind up reporters.  At one press conference, a reporter referred to him as Brian, to which he responded 'it's Mr Clough to you'.  The next reporter than addressed him as Mr Clough, to which he replied 'please, call me Brian'.  

[karipidis]

7 hours ago, VALDOS' said:

I think it's a tough question because the likes of clough and Sir Alex would struggle starting out in the modern game(as in right now) , likewise some managers today would have been laughed out the dressing room 30 years ago. 

Why would Sir Alex struggle? One of his greatest strengths was to evolve his management style and tactics with the modern game. 

[karipidis]

4 hours ago, benny said:

Sir Alf Ramsay.

Ipswich Division 2 and 1 winner and off course 1966.

Nobody comes close.

Nobody comes close!?!? 

[Remain Nameless01]

Only one answer, SAF!

[Bickfest]

I suspect we'd struggle to reach broad agreement on the best Scottish manager ever, far less the best worldwide. In SAF, Stein, Shankly and Busby we have produced 4 giants of the game each of whom could lay claim to the title of best ever, but none of whom would. Shanks himself reckoned Stein was the best of them and at that time it would have been hard to argue with, but SAF's achievements subsequently dwarf the others', albeit with extrordinary resources that the rest could only have dreamt of.

Edited August 25, 2019 by Bickfest

[Special Agent Dale Cooper]

Marcello Lippi for me. I'll be lazy and let Wikipedia explain why...

 

Throughout his career as a manager he won one World Cup title, five Serie A titles, three Chinese Super League titles, one Coppa Italia, one Chinese FA Cup, four Italian Supercups, one UEFA Champions League, one AFC Champions League, one UEFA Supercup and one Intercontinental Cup. He is the first and to date the only coach to win both the UEFA Champions League and the AFC Champions League.^[4]

He was named the world's best football manager by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) both in 1996 and 1998, and world's best National coach in 2006.^[5] He is the first coach to have won the most prestigious international competitions both for clubs in different continents, and for national teams (the UEFA Champions League and the Intercontinental Cup in 1996 with Juventus; the AFC Champions League in 2013 with Guangzhou; and the FIFA World Cup in 2006 with Italy).

[Bull's-eye]

Craig Levein.

[ri Alban]

9 hours ago, ShadyAcres said:

Bob Paisley. 

Probably!?

[Irufushi]

9 hours ago, Morgan said:

Folk can shove Jose (a wee bit) and Pep (a big bit) right up their arse in a ‘best manager ever’ thread.

 

 

 

His jobs at Porto and Inter were incredible achievements . For me he’s the best in my lifetime, purely based on those two jobs. 

[ri Alban]

Fabio Capello wasn't bad either.

[LarrysRightFoot]

10 hours ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Great achievements with both clubs then and won their only titles.

A certain Dave Mackay managed Derby to a league title 

[Marvin]

11 hours ago, Weakened Offender said:

 

Clough won the league twice. With two very unfashionable clubs.

 

Taking Derby County to the EC Semi Final. 😊

 

The same Derby County Dave Mackay played for. Incidentally Dave thought  Clough was a bully.

[VALDOS']

4 hours ago, karipidis said:

Why would Sir Alex struggle? One of his greatest strengths was to evolve his management style and tactics with the modern game. 

In my opinion I think he would struggle with "player power" which has accelerated in the last, 5 years.

Plenty ex players said he knew who needed a bollocking and who needed an arm around the shoulder to bring the best out of them, but even then there was a fiery intimidating character than I'm not sure the wet wipes of the modern game could cope with. 

[letsalldothebeattie]

In my lifetime theirs only one and that’s the great Sir Alex Ferguson

[Fozzyonthefence]

10 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Ferguson's achievements with Aberdeen are unbelievable. 

Then to turn around man Utd... 

 

Can't see how it is even a debate. 

Won't be repeated, ever. 

 

Alex Ferguson is the correct answer. 

 

Only won the EC twice though and he was at one of the biggest clubs in the world.  They were in a mess when he took over but they were never going to stay that way. 

 

Are we discounting all the great non UK managers by the way?  All seems a bit Brexitish

[luckydug]

1 hour ago, Special Agent Dale Cooper said:

Marcello Lippi for me. I'll be lazy and let Wikipedia explain why...

 

Throughout his career as a manager he won one World Cup title, five Serie A titles, three Chinese Super League titles, one Coppa Italia, one Chinese FA Cup, four Italian Supercups, one UEFA Champions League, one AFC Champions League, one UEFA Supercup and one Intercontinental Cup. He is the first and to date the only coach to win both the UEFA Champions League and the AFC Champions League.^[4]

He was named the world's best football manager by the International Federation of Football History & Statistics (IFFHS) both in 1996 and 1998, and world's best National coach in 2006.^[5] He is the first coach to have won the most prestigious international competitions both for clubs in different continents, and for national teams (the UEFA Champions League and the Intercontinental Cup in 1996 with Juventus; the AFC Champions League in 2013 with Guangzhou; and the FIFA World Cup in 2006 with Italy).

Can't argue with that. 👍

[luckydug]

4 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

Only won the EC twice though and he was at one of the biggest clubs in the world.  They were in a mess when he took over but they were never going to stay that way. 

 

Are we discounting all the great non UK managers by the way?  All seems a bit Brexitish

Correct !

If we are counting managers based in England then we have to count managers based overseas as well.

As far as Scotland goes I would say Jock Stein. 

 

[1971fozzy]

10 hours ago, south morocco said:

Subjective.  Different eras, different players, budgets, I’ll go for Ferguson. Constantly building new winning teams 

 

100%

Fergie all the way. What he did was incredible

 

Did Clough not get Forest relegated ?

[indianajones]

Ian Cathro. 

 

Seriously though, it has to be Fergie. I don't like man utd but what he managed to achieve was unreal. 

Edited August 25, 2019 by indianajones

[1971fozzy]

22 minutes ago, VALDOS' said:

In my opinion I think he would struggle with "player power" which has accelerated in the last, 5 years.

Plenty ex players said he knew who needed a bollocking and who needed an arm around the shoulder to bring the best out of them, but even then there was a fiery intimidating character than I'm not sure the wet wipes of the modern game could cope with. 

 

Wet wipes 😂😂😂

[John Findlay]

11 hours ago, AW1 said:

Always a daft question this. Players evolve so do managers and coaching. There can only be a greatest manager of each era never a greatest manager of all time.

In my lifetime 

80s........ Brian Clough 

90s........ Sir Alex Feguson 

00s........ Jose Mourinho(might get slated but look at what he won between 2003 and 2010)

"Teenies"....... Pep Guardiola 

Managers dont win trophies. Football players do though.

[1874_and_proud]

Fergie, then Bobby Robson (watch his doc on netflix) then Clough. Tommy Walker must be top 10....

[Who_put_the_ball_in...]

Tommy Walker

[Seymour M Hersh]

11 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Ferguson's achievements with Aberdeen are unbelievable. 

Then to turn around man Utd... 

 

Can't see how it is even a debate. 

Won't be repeated, ever. 

 

Alex Ferguson is the correct answer. 

 

In your opinion. 

[Seymour M Hersh]

For me it's Bill Shankly followed by Bob Paisley. Just my opinion though. 

[Marvin]

40 minutes ago, 1971fozzy said:

 

100%

Fergie all the way. What he did was incredible

 

 

To think Fergie coulld have signed for us, he was on his way out of Man U had they lost that FA Cup final to Crystal Palace and WM had a gentleman's agreement with Sir Alex that he'd sign for The Famous.

[Bazzas right boot]

28 minutes ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

In your opinion. 

 

Nah, it's the correct answer. 

 

What he achieved with Aberdeen is unparalleled and then at Man utd he taken it even further. 

Broke the OF. 

Broke Liverpool. 

 

Was successful in two eras as well, pre money/ bosman  and post sky money / bosman. 

 

Imo what he done with Aberdeen was more impressive than his Man utd work but he's the best manager. 

FACT. 😂😂😂

[Seymour M Hersh]

Just now, Smith's right boot said:

 

Nah, it's the correct answer. 

 

What he achieved with Aberdeen is unparalleled and then at Man utd he taken it even further. 

Broke the OF. 

Broke Liverpool. 

 

Was successful in two eras as well, pre money/ bosman  and post sky money / bosman. 

 

Imo what he done with Aberdeen was more impressive than his Man utd work but he's the best manager. 

FACT. 😂😂😂

 

Dear oh dear. 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

Dear oh dear. 

 

 

I jest ofc. 

Folk always entitled to thier opinion

 

In all honesty I think what has happened to man Utd after Fergie is also further evidence of how important and good he was as a manager. 

 

I don't think anyone comes close to him, Robbie was getting their with us, but..... 🙄

[Fozzyonthefence]

59 minutes ago, Smith's right boot said:

 

Nah, it's the correct answer. 

 

What he achieved with Aberdeen is unparalleled and then at Man utd he taken it even further. 

Broke the OF. 

Broke Liverpool. 

 

Was successful in two eras as well, pre money/ bosman  and post sky money / bosman. 

 

Imo what he done with Aberdeen was more impressive than his Man utd work but he's the best manager. 

FACT. 😂😂😂

 

I think it’s the Aberdeen achievements that put him up there (obviously taking into account the Man U trophies too) but imo that was harder to do than what he did at arguably the biggest club in the world in the modern game where money is so much more important than it used to be

[Bazzas right boot]

6 minutes ago, Fozzyonthefence said:

 

I think it’s the Aberdeen achievements that put him up there (obviously taking into account the Man U trophies too) but imo that was harder to do than what he did at arguably the biggest club in the world in the modern game where money is so much more important than it used to be

 

 

I think so. 

 

But he built clubs, legaceys. Some of the more modern managers stay for a few years then leave, he was much more imo. 

 

Also, from the names mentioned only manager that was successful in what you might call the traditional era and the modern era. 

Before bosman, vast amounts of money Etc.

[Morgan]

12 hours ago, Jamie86 said:

What's your arguments against both? 

Money and resources, in both cases.

 

Consider that versus what Cloughie and Taylor did on sweeties, and you’ll see my point.

[H2]

13 hours ago, Smith's right boot said:

Ferguson's achievements with Aberdeen are unbelievable. 

Then to turn around man Utd... 

 

Can't see how it is even a debate. 

Won't be repeated, ever. 

 

Alex Ferguson is the correct answer. 

It was interesting listening to Gary Neville when he said times have changed, Man u can not go out and get any player they want, (Basically what he was alluding too Fergie times)  Man U in the past would have signed Harry Kane, and others, but now they can't (because others have the finances to hold on to players and many other clubs can compete in the transfer market). Had Clough had Fergie's resources he would probably have been more successful. Now hopefully you can see the debate 🙂 and that Brian Clough is the correct answer (after Tommy Walker of course).