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Maroon Sailor

Bury

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The Treasurer
9 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

It has plenty to do with it. West Ham could've gone bust a decade ago after the crash hit Iceland harder than anyone. Look at them now. They're in London, so they attracted new owners, had a new stadium built for them at the taxpayer's expense (!), and constantly attract players drawn to the bright lights and big city. 

 

The never-ending silverware drought in English football's traditional hotbed of the north-east is not a coincidence. It's a result of the north-east being more economically deprived than anywhere else. Sunderland, for example, paid massively over the odds on mercenaries for God knows how long - precisely because good players just won't go there. 

 

Loads of clubs are mismanaged all the time, including my English one not so long ago. As much as anything else, location determines whether they'll rebound from that mismanagement (remember Southampton a decade ago? Look at them now), or pay the consequences for decades.

Not for the first time you are talking out your arse.

WHU did not have a stadium built for them, they took on the white elephant Olympic Stadium when no-one else wanted to (apart from Orient).

Clubs in the south/south east may have an advantage, location wise, over clubs further north, but overseas players will go wherever they are offered the best deal.

 

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Harry Potter

Deal to save them failed last night, looks like they are finished, real shame.

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John Findlay

Maybe Charlie's Green can buy their history. Oh hang on it's the EFL and FA he would have to deal with. Not the rollover and tickle our tummies SPFLand SFA.

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hmfc_liam06

Sad times for them.

 

I hope we reached out to offer any help we could.

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SectionDJambo

We know as well as anyone that all the fans want to do is go along to support their team. Sustainability before gambling on vanity projects.  It’s something the owners of some clubs don’t seem to appreciate. 

Fans who support Bury instead of United or City have my respect. At least they didn’t have some local morons trying to hasten their demise.

I hope they can still be saved, financially, and climb back into the league.

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Maroon Sailor

Bury was were it all started for Terry McDermott. These clubs are not only part of the community but offer a great platform for players to start their careers and develop as players

 

Sadly the Premier League is like winning the lottery for parasites who have no interest in the history and meaning of football clubs.

 

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upgotheheads

We could have been here and it was so close.

 

Bryan Jackson was on Good Morning Scotland today and described the Hearts receivership as the hardest he dealt with.

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The Treasurer

I think some of their nearer neighbours whose weekly wage bill would have saved them were in a better position to "reach out"

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Maroon Sailor
Posted (edited)

Looks like G.Neville is getting stick

 

At least his Mum was there at their darkest hour

 

Quoted tweet is unavailable so must have been pretty nasty

 

Strike that the arsehole deleted it

 

 

 

 

Edited by Maroon Sailor

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afanderson33
11 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

I think some of their nearer neighbours whose weekly wage bill would have saved them were in a better position to "reach out"


Man City gave them a training ground for free

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The Treasurer
5 minutes ago, afanderson33 said:


Man City gave them a training ground for free

Bit pointless when they had nothing to train for

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Nookie Bear
2 hours ago, hmfc_liam06 said:

Sad times for them.

 

I hope we reached out to offer any help we could.

 

Why would we?

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Armageddon

Bad timing for Callum Booth, left Dundee United on the 24th July with 12 months left on his contract to chase a very very decent wage.

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afanderson33
9 minutes ago, The Treasurer said:

Bit pointless when they had nothing to train for


They gave them it like 5 years ago 

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The Treasurer
5 minutes ago, afanderson33 said:


They gave them it like 5 years ago 

Fair enough.

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RobboM
17 hours ago, Jack Torrance said:

BBC News - Bolton and Bury: A message from a football club that bounced back
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-49479847

 

The last two paragraphs 

:greggy:


For those who didn't click through to the BBC article it had examples of several clubs that had gone into liquidation and a factual recounting of the Rangers demise and subsequent rebirth through Sevco.

If you look at the same article now, however, you'll see that history has been re-writted to remove ANY reference to Rangers as a liquidated club. Astonishing given they ar surely THE most high profile recent liquidation in British football.

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Tasavallan

My own hands-on experience of liquidation was with Darlington FC and the fantasist George Reynolds.  Killed the club single handed with his 25,000 all-seater stadium .  He was not of this world and I have no idea how he got a fit-for-purpose licence from the FA.

 

As I felt for those Darlo fans back in 2012 (a bad year), so I feel for the Shakers' fans today.   UOM use Gigg Lane so may not be lost to the league for long.  Assuming Bury 2019 FC is not formed somewhere in the lower non-leagues. 

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Mikey1874
10 hours ago, Allowayjambo1874 said:

The EFL are 100% complicit in allowing this to occur. The financial Fair Play rules were brought in by UEFA to stop this from happening but the English have completely ignored them and allowed all sorts of loopholes to be utilised by their clubs and the debt below the EPL is staggering.

About 75% of Championship clubs wages to turnover is more than 100% and in league one at least 5-6 are doing the same. How on earth can that be sustainable and be allowed to continue? The English league however allow it. I am sure Bury were paying out 135% of their turnover on wages, which is just mental.

A well run club in England is one that is spending 85% of it's turnover on wages, in any other industry that would be a suicidal business plan.

Thank goodness the Scottish clubs (bar one) have got their house in order and now most have a wages to turnover of about 65% and most are relatively stable.

 

This article in The telegraph lays the figures re debt/wages in stark terms: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/08/20/experts-warned-efl-two-years-ago-clubs-like-bolton-bury-faced/

 

And here is one that shows how the Championship clubs are gambling heavily to get the promised land http://financialfootballnews.com/championship-2018-finances-wages/

 

 

So for example who knows what Aston Villa would have done if not promoted. Relegated sides with massive wage bills seem to have the biggest challenges. 

 

Derby owner bought the stadium for £80 million to cancel their debt. 

 

Tick tock. 

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Tasavallan

Unlike at Hearts with FOH and Budge & Co., many clubs in financial difficulties go into liquidation as the main creditor is usually HMRC who do not normally negotiate debts.  Oldco went insolvent as nobody wanted to invest old money after bad money and as a result Newco/Sevco rose from the asheswith the help of their chums at the SFA

 

As has been demonstrated, clubs that end up going insolvent tend to return by another entity/name as they have loyal supporters.  Clubs generally do not disappear forever, even Bradford PA metamorphosed eventually.  

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Maroon Sailor

Took a while before they got their brackets back though ! Bradford (Park Avenue)

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Tasavallan

For the record, and for those apologists that frequent this board, to quote:

 

The Rangers Football Club plc entered administration on 14 February 2012. Subsequently, HMRC refused to allow Rangers to exit administration via a CVA and accordingly The Rangers Football Club plc entered liquidation on 31 October 2012. 

 

They were as dead as the Norwegian Blue.  What happened thereafter was no different to insolvent Airdrie FC taking over Clydebank FC and transferring its name by deed poll. 

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Tasavallan
Posted (edited)
31 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Took a while before they got their brackets back though ! Bradford (Park Avenue)

Not as long as my father's club.  He supported Gateshead AFC whose ground (Redheugh Park) was at the bottom of our street (sadly no more as now Team Valley industrial estate).  They went up and down like a pair of hoor's drawers and I believe they reformed at least 3 times. 

 

Now based at the Gateshead Stadium, they were demoted to the National League North at end of 2018/2019 season due to financial irregularities (too much Savaloy, pease pudding & stottie cakes).    

Edited by Tasavallan

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McCrae
Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

Even by the EFL's non-existent standards, :cornette:

 

The broader points Conn makes are spot on too.

 

1. Football is only a reflection of broader society; and especially, broader economic attitudes. The UK's Greed Is Good vulture capitalism, which is about to intensify far more if No Deal happens, rewards complete shysters (Exhibit A: the Prime Minister himself) and screws everyone else. 

 

2. Have a look at the Premier League right now. No Sunderland or Middlesbrough. No Leeds or Sheffield Wednesday. No Nottingham Forest or Derby. But instead, Brighton, Bournemouth, Palace, Watford and Norwich. Four of those clubs' 'natural' level is the Championship; Bournemouth's is below even that.

 

But what do those five clubs have in common? They're all in the south - and bit by bit, at all levels except among the very elite, English football's coming to reflect the chronic socioeconomic neglect of the north. It's easy to laugh at the likes of Newcastle as they lurch from one crisis to the next - but the biggest problem they face in attracting either good players or rich investors is geography. And that's true for a whole bunch of other big city clubs outside the south and south-east.

 

 

 

Pretty extreme post based on flawed logic.

 

The EPL has been dominated by the Manchester based clubs and to an extent Liverpool. In no way are these clubs thought of as being based in the South by English people. They are regarded as being Northern. 

 

It’s a positive that clubs such as Norwich can play in the top division and is a sign that the league has healthy competition. As a side note Norwich is not a south of England club... they are based in East Anglia.

 

The last club to be kicked out of the league was a southern  based club, Maidstone.  How does that fit in with your argument.

 

Trying to link BREXIT to this debate Is just nonsense. No evidence to support your baseless claims that football will be negatively impacted.  The changes in freedom of movement are more likely to create opportunities for our younger players and if anything this is a positive.

 

There is no evidence to support any of your claims and your lack of understanding of UK geography kills your argument.

Edited by McCrae

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Mikey1874
6 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Bury was were it all started for Terry McDermott. These clubs are not only part of the community but offer a great platform for players to start their careers and develop as players

 

Sadly the Premier League is like winning the lottery for parasites who have no interest in the history and meaning of football clubs.

 

 

2 hours ago, Tasavallan said:

My own hands-on experience of liquidation was with Darlington FC and the fantasist George Reynolds.  Killed the club single handed with his 25,000 all-seater stadium .  He was not of this world and I have no idea how he got a fit-for-purpose licence from the FA.

 

As I felt for those Darlo fans back in 2012 (a bad year), so I feel for the Shakers' fans today.   UOM use Gigg Lane so may not be lost to the league for long.  Assuming Bury 2019 FC is not formed somewhere in the lower non-leagues. 

 

Money attracts some very dubious characters.

 

There are issues with hindsight making things easy but EFL must tighter their consideration of what is 'fit and proper'. 

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Ribble
5 hours ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Looks like G.Neville is getting stick

 

At least his Mum was there at their darkest hour

 

Quoted tweet is unavailable so must have been pretty nasty

 

Strike that the arsehole deleted it

 

 

 

 

 

When the whole Bury thing started hitting the news I found out that Gigg Lane is only 5 miles from Salford, made me wonder why the Man U group went for virtually amateur Salford and didn't invest in a local football league club instead!

 

I do feel sorry for Bury but I think a fair bit of that is due to them being my favourite crap wee team to try and win the champions league with on champ man!

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Jack Torrance
3 hours ago, RobboM said:


For those who didn't click through to the BBC article it had examples of several clubs that had gone into liquidation and a factual recounting of the Rangers demise and subsequent rebirth through Sevco.

If you look at the same article now, however, you'll see that history has been re-writted to remove ANY reference to Rangers as a liquidated club. Astonishing given they ar surely THE most high profile recent liquidation in British football.

FFS, you couldn't make it up.

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Jimmy_McNulty

Only English game I ever saw live involved Bury (losing 2-0 end of season at PNE, and going down a Division). Flatmate was a huge fan so had a soft spot for them. Pretty sad TBH.

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shaun.lawson
2 hours ago, McCrae said:

 

Pretty extreme post based on flawed logic.

 

The EPL has been dominated by the Manchester based clubs and to an extent Liverpool. In no way are these clubs thought of as being based in the South by English people. They are regarded as being Northern. 

 

It’s a positive that clubs such as Norwich can play in the top division and is a sign that the league has healthy competition. As a side note Norwich is not a south of England club... they are based in East Anglia.

 

The last club to be kicked out of the league was a southern  based club, Maidstone.  How does that fit in with your argument.

 

Trying to link BREXIT to this debate Is just nonsense. No evidence to support your baseless claims that football will be negatively impacted.  The changes in freedom of movement are more likely to create opportunities for our younger players and if anything this is a positive.

 

There is no evidence to support any of your claims and your lack of understanding of UK geography kills your argument.

 

Laughably weak response, motivated by your hilarious desire to chase me around the forum.

 

1. Maidstone folded in 1992. Football's a completely different planet now: all the changes I mentioned have happened since. 

 

2. East Anglia is most certainly part of the south of England. There's the south, and there's the north. North/South divide ring any bells in your world?

 

3. The two Manchester clubs and Liverpool are globally famous clubs (which is why my post spoke of "everyone but the absolute elite"). So they're insulated. Nobody else in the north is. 

 

4. And oh yes, the vulture capitalism which has destroyed Bury and is destroying others is most certainly linked to the whole mentality around Brexit. Brexit's about the super-rich getting even richer than ever. Brexit's about disaster capitalism. Brexit's about places like Bury being laid waste even more than they already have been.

 

And the British people, in their infinite wisdom, voted for it - just like the English people, in their infinite wisdom, allowed Rupert Murdoch to take the entire sport hostage, and have kept handing over a ransom to him so they can watch it. Mugs. Lemmings. ****ing idiots.  

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Mikey1874
1 hour ago, Ribble said:

 

When the whole Bury thing started hitting the news I found out that Gigg Lane is only 5 miles from Salford, made me wonder why the Man U group went for virtually amateur Salford and didn't invest in a local football league club instead!

 

I do feel sorry for Bury but I think a fair bit of that is due to them being my favourite crap wee team to try and win the champions league with on champ man!

 

Neville and the others are front men for the main investor Peter Lim though it does seem to be a partnership.

 

Maybe they looked at Bury. May find out. 

 

 

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Stephen Muddie
2 hours ago, shaun.lawson said:

 

4. And oh yes, the vulture capitalism which has destroyed Bury and is destroying others is most certainly linked to the whole mentality around Brexit. Brexit's about the super-rich getting even richer than ever. Brexit's about disaster capitalism. Brexit's about places like Bury being laid waste even more than they already have been.

 

And the British people, in their infinite wisdom, voted for it - just like the English people, in their infinite wisdom, allowed Rupert Murdoch to take the entire sport hostage, and have kept handing over a ransom to him so they can watch it. Mugs. Lemmings. ****ing idiots.  

You perfectly encapsulate the faux-intellectual standpoint of so many regards a subject that you, like so many, cannot comprehend outwith (obsolete) right-left paradigms. You should be banned from the board simply for peddling political propaganda on a football thread. Then again, I'm fairly sure nobody here is taken in by your Guardian-wrapped schtick.

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chester copperpot

Bolton Wanderers SAVED.

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annushorribilis III
1 hour ago, Stephen Muddie said:

You perfectly encapsulate the faux-intellectual standpoint of so many regards a subject that you, like so many, cannot comprehend outwith (obsolete) right-left paradigms. You should be banned from the board simply for peddling political propaganda on a football thread. Then again, I'm fairly sure nobody here is taken in by your Guardian-wrapped schtick.

You should see his old Twitter stuff. Or then again, perhaps not. 

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maroonsgotop
3 hours ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Neville and the others are front men for the main investor Peter Lim though it does seem to be a partnership.

 

Maybe they looked at Bury. May find out. 

 

 

The Nevilles had big connections at Bury. Were brought up as Bury fans, Their dad (Neville Neville) has one of the stands named after him and their Mum worked their as Secretary for over 30 years before resigning last week. Other family members worked behind the scenes as well.

 

They were not allowed to put any money in due to their joint ownership of Salford.

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Footballfirst
8 hours ago, RobboM said:


For those who didn't click through to the BBC article it had examples of several clubs that had gone into liquidation and a factual recounting of the Rangers demise and subsequent rebirth through Sevco.

If you look at the same article now, however, you'll see that history has been re-writted to remove ANY reference to Rangers as a liquidated club. Astonishing given they ar surely THE most high profile recent liquidation in British football.

Here's a screen grab of it for posterity.

 

image.png.7381952466cec7158ceb9fefb0e9028b.png

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smiler
7 hours ago, McCrae said:

 

It’s a positive that clubs such as Norwich can play in the top division and is a sign that the league has healthy competition. As a side note Norwich is not a south of England club... they are based in East Anglia.

 

There is no evidence to support any of your claims and your lack of understanding of UK geography kills your argument.

Sorry, but to have a pop about his lack of understanding of UK geography and to also state that Norwich isn’t in the south of England is just silly.

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maroonsgotop
38 minutes ago, maroonsgotop said:

The Nevilles had big connections at Bury. Were brought up as Bury fans, Their dad (Neville Neville) has one of the stands named after him and their Mum worked there as Secretary for over 30 years before resigning last week. Other family members worked behind the scenes as well.

 

They were not allowed to put any money in due to their joint ownership of Salford.

 

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Maroon Sailor

Apparently an International Consortium have £7m and want the EFL to rescind Bury's expulsion 

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Maroon Sailor

 

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smiler
4 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

Apparently an International Consortium have £7m and want the EFL to rescind Bury's expulsion 

They can’t, rules are rules. Bury already got special treatment did they not?

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Maroon Sailor
8 minutes ago, smiler said:

They can’t, rules are rules. Bury already got special treatment did they not?

 

They certainly got special treatment from Steve Dale

 

Why didn't he just sell ?

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smiler
4 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

They certainly got special treatment from Steve Dale

 

Why didn't he just sell ?

I thought Dale tried to sell, but any interested party looked at the debt and said **** that. The previous owner was the guy who’s ****ed that club up debt wise, as far as I can see.

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Maroon Sailor
Just now, smiler said:

I thought Dale tried to sell, but any interested party looked at the debt and said **** that. The previous owner was the guy who’s ****ed that club up debt wise, as far as I can see.

 

I thought Dale was wanting his cake and that's why there was no willing buyer in the end

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kirkierobroy

This International Consortium with £7m - where were they on Deadline Day?

 

Frankly they sound a bit glib and shameless.

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Jim Panzee
24 minutes ago, Maroon Sailor said:

 

What are they after?

 

who are they?

 

let the fans take over. 

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kirkierobroy

Was reading recently that Rushden and Diamonds' old gaff, an impressive stadium, ultra-modern and one that most clubs in Scotland would kill for, was demolished a couple of years ago.

 

Sic transit gloria whatsit.

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Cruickshank for Scotland
15 hours ago, The Treasurer said:

Not for the first time you are talking out your arse.

WHU did not have a stadium built for them, they took on the white elephant Olympic Stadium when no-one else wanted to (apart from Orient).

Clubs in the south/south east may have an advantage, location wise, over clubs further north, but overseas players will go wherever they are offered the best deal.

 

 

West Ham got the stadium at a snip - it was a well publicised scandal down there in the media.

Also players want to go to the bright lights of London - many will not go anywhere just for big money - just ask Newcastle.

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sadj
29 minutes ago, kirkierobroy said:

This International Consortium with £7m - where were they on Deadline Day?

 

Frankly they sound a bit glib and shameless.

 

There were 3parties interested yesterday but the EFL would only let them deal with one. Its not as simple as that but that was the jist of the news report this morning.

 

 

23 minutes ago, kirkierobroy said:

Was reading recently that Rushden and Diamonds' old gaff, an impressive stadium, ultra-modern and one that most clubs in Scotland would kill for, was demolished a couple of years ago.

 

Sic transit gloria whatsit.

 

I think there is a website that looked at old grounds/disused grounds and Rushden and Diamonds was in it , they had some job getting in if I remember correctly but it was some stadium as you say.

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Stephen Muddie

 

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McCrae
3 hours ago, smiler said:

Sorry, but to have a pop about his lack of understanding of UK geography and to also state that Norwich isn’t in the south of England is just silly.

 

If you lived in the south of England you would know that everything north of Watford is regarded as the “North” and East Anglia is not regarded as being in the South.  It’s in the East. 

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It should have been ten
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Ribble said:

 

When the whole Bury thing started hitting the news I found out that Gigg Lane is only 5 miles from Salford, made me wonder why the Man U group went for virtually amateur Salford and didn't invest in a local football league club instead!

 

I do feel sorry for Bury but I think a fair bit of that is due to them being my favourite crap wee team to try and win the champions league with on champ man!

 

When they bought Salford 5 years ago they said they wanted to start their own project in an area that they grew up in. At the time Bury were comfortable in League 2 with no issues. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by It should have been ten

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