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British IS schoolgirl wants to return home


AlphonseCapone

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8 hours ago, fabienleclerq said:

 

And what's your attitude towards her situation?

 

He'll take her in, sort her head out and turn her into  a model citizen, of course.?

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The argument that she was only 15 doesn't hold much water to me. That's well above the age of criminal responsibility in all parts of the UK. If she comes back then she should be suitably punished and she should never see that kid again. 

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16 hours ago, Jambo-Jimbo said:

Seen a few folks on TV going on about 'she was only 15', yeh true but not all 15 year olds are the same, some are way way smarter than some 20-25 yr olds, and by all accounts she was really quite clever at school, straight A's seemingly, it is also known that she spent quite some time researching ISIS on the internet and it was mentioned today that it was her who organised the travel arrangements for the 3 of them.  So she knew exactly what she was getting herself into long before she ever went anywhere near Syria.

 

Sure she was only 15 when she went to Syria, but she doesn't come across as some silly wee girl, no not this one.

So common sense rules over a good school education, 

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9 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Naive as **** if we bend for this.  The home office should watch Bodyguard for some insight.

In overly dramatic, stretching of reality?

 

Think they've got that down already, in honesty.

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34 minutes ago, Gashauskis9 said:

Naive as **** if we bend for this.  The home office should watch Bodyguard for some insight.

Bodyguard was one of the most ludicrous far fetched things I've seen in a long time, if the Home Office are using that as any sort of guide then it's even worse than I thought.

 

As for the lassie, **** her.  Any sort of contrition or show of regret and you could maybe look to help her and excuse her actions as  being young and brainwashed, but she shows no indication that she thinks she's wrong.

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8 hours ago, Zico said:

You absolutely can take their citizenship comrade. You’re getting confused with making them stateless (I’d advocate that too but the UN might frown in our direction if we did that). I’d prefer worse but this is a family forum. And the latter is, of course, far more mercy than enjoyed by the Yazidis, Shia Turkmen etc. 

 

 

Only if they are naturalised or have dual nationalty though?  

 

I'm certainly not condoning the girl's actions, far from it.  

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32 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Only if they are naturalised or have dual nationalty though?  

 

I'm certainly not condoning the girl's actions, far from it.  

 

You are, as usual, correct.

 

Stripping the citizenship of someone with no other citizenship, rendering them stateless, is a human rights violation.

 

"But she did horrible things and supported terrorists and doesn't care about heads on the ground." Yup true, can you point to me where that transforms her species to something other than homo sapiens sapiens and therefore deprives her of her human rights protections?

 

"But she should be punished." No one's saying she shouldn't be. There are domestic, European and international mechanisms for that and as a British citizen, she is subject to them. Stripping her of her citizenship or preventing her from re-entering the country is not among them. She'll go to prison for a long time and her child will be safe, a win/win.

 

"But she didn't want to be here until it was to her benefit." Not wanting to be here is not a good enough reason to remove her citizenship. She didn't formally renounce it, therefore she's still British. People from elsewhere like me who do want to be here can't just come here and say "I want to be here so I have British citizenship now", so it also doesn't work in reverse.

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Governor Tarkin
47 minutes ago, Bob Loblaw said:

Any sort of contrition or show of regret and you could maybe look to help her and excuse her actions as  being young and brainwashed, but she shows no indication that she thinks she's wrong.

 

She probably shows no indication that she thinks she's wrong precisely because she's been brainwashed.

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21 hours ago, Dannie Boy said:

One of the key messages in that parable is repentance, remorse and humility. This girl has shown no signs of being truly sorry for what she has done. 

 

19 hours ago, I P Knightley said:

I always read it that the prodigal came back to his dad, waltzing in and expecting to be looked after. It never sat right with me that the diligent and loyal son never saw any reward.

 

Mate, you can't expect a hardcore Christian to understand their own holy scriptures. Come on, what kind of standard is that?

To be fair, the prodigal son didn't just waltz back in like nothing happened. He had a whole thing prepared to say about how he was bad and disgraced his father and God by his actions, and he was going to beg forgiveness and ask to become his father's servant. But the important part is, Dad didn't even let him start that speech, he showered him with love and prepared a party in honour of his return. Whether the son was repentant or not, "truly sorry" or not, Dad had no idea either way and didn't care, he was just happy to see his son return, thinking he had been lost.

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57 minutes ago, Boris said:

 

Only if they are naturalised or have dual nationalty though?  

 

I'm certainly not condoning the girl's actions, far from it.  

The law’s only been applied to dual nationals; doesn’t mean it can’t or shouldn’t be applied to UK nationals. And I’d apply it (and worse) to anyone who left to join IS.

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2 hours ago, Sooperstar said:

The argument that she was only 15 doesn't hold much water to me. That's well above the age of criminal responsibility in all parts of the UK. If she comes back then she should be suitably punished and she should never see that kid again. 

The criminal responsibility part is very true, you can be tried from age 12 in Scotland, not sure the exact age in England. 

 

I don't pretend to know all the details of this case - everyone's talking about crimes, but what's she being accused of in terms of the law? Is there more to it than joining isis?

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24 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Mate, you can't expect a hardcore Christian to understand their own holy scriptures. Come on, what kind of standard is that?

To be fair, the prodigal son didn't just waltz back in like nothing happened. He had a whole thing prepared to say about how he was bad and disgraced his father and God by his actions, and he was going to beg forgiveness and ask to become his father's servant. But the important part is, Dad didn't even let him start that speech, he showered him with love and prepared a party in honour of his return. Whether the son was repentant or not, "truly sorry" or not, Dad had no idea either way and didn't care, he was just happy to see his son return, thinking he had been lost.

 

Sorry but you’re wrong.

Edited by Dannie Boy
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25 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

 

Mate, you can't expect a hardcore Christian to understand their own holy scriptures. Come on, what kind of standard is that?

To be fair, the prodigal son didn't just waltz back in like nothing happened. He had a whole thing prepared to say about how he was bad and disgraced his father and God by his actions, and he was going to beg forgiveness and ask to become his father's servant. But the important part is, Dad didn't even let him start that speech, he showered him with love and prepared a party in honour of his return. Whether the son was repentant or not, "truly sorry" or not, Dad had no idea either way and didn't care, he was just happy to see his son return, thinking he had been lost.

This is not the same as the prodigal son parable. 

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8 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

Sorry but you’re wrong.

 

Look I'm sure the Pharisees greatly appreciate your taking the role of the elder son in the story and arguing their side, but I thought you were a follower of Jesus.

 

To be fair, now that I've gone back and looked instead of trying to reconstruct this tale from memory after 20+ years, the son did manage to get some of his speech out after his father had already thrown his arms around him and kissed him. The important bit though, is that his father did that before he knew whether his son was contrite or not.

 

Edited by Justin Z
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8 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

Look I'm sure the Pharisees greatly appreciate your taking the role of the elder son in the story and arguing their side, but I thought you were a follower of Jesus.

 

To be fair, now that I've gone back and looked instead of trying to reconstruct this tale from memory after 20+ years, the son did manage to get some of his speech out after his father had already thrown his arms around him and kissed him. The important bit though, is that his father did that before he knew whether his son was contrite or not.

 

 

However as the Father in this parable is God and God knows everything then he would know as the lost Son comes up the road that he is repentant.

 

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Just now, Zico said:

The law’s only been applied to dual nationals; doesn’t mean it can’t or shouldn’t be applied to UK nationals. And I’d apply it (and worse) to anyone who left to join IS.

 

So in other words we could leave someone stateless?  I'm not so sure the law could apply to a UK national, but then again I'm not a lawyer.

 

Rocky road to go down.

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1 minute ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

However as the Father in this parable is God and God knows everything then he would know as the lost Son comes up the road that he is repentant.

 

 

:lol: Okay chief.

 

image.png.fb96e3192bc34b7cc148ca56b9d35dcd.png

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The ultimate debate this. Easy to see both sides of the divide but difficult to nail your colours to the mast either way, without being branded a 'lefty' or a 'racist'.

 

She's obviously been groomed and brainwashed as a schoolchild which isn't entirely her fault, and she's nowhere near as bad as those who did it. 

 

However, to have these ideologies, and the fact she still has these means under no circumstances should she be allowed to come back here on the basis that she could compromise the safety of the country. 

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Governor Tarkin
12 minutes ago, Locky said:

The ultimate debate this. Easy to see both sides of the divide but difficult to nail your colours to the mast either way, without being branded a 'lefty' or a 'racist'.

 

She's obviously been groomed and brainwashed as a schoolchild which isn't entirely her fault, and she's nowhere near as bad as those who did it. 

 

However, to have these ideologies, and the fact she still has these means under no circumstances should she be allowed to come back here on the basis that she could compromise the safety of the country. 

 

I think this has to be judged by those who are qualified to do so, and for that we'd need her back in 'Blighty.

 

11 minutes ago, Justin Z said:

 

:lol: Mate I can't help it. Teach me your Zen ways.

 

Grow dreadlocks. :)

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1 hour ago, Justin Z said:

 

:lol: Okay chief.

 

image.png.fb96e3192bc34b7cc148ca56b9d35dcd.png

Isn't that basically true of every Christian religion though, interpretations that fit their own particular brand?

Are the fundamentalists the only ones who've got it right?

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11 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Isn't that basically true of every Christian religion though, interpretations that fit their own particular brand?

Are the fundamentalists the only ones who've got it right?

 

Well yes, that was the point I was arseholishly making :rofl: Plus, even if we went with Dannie's interpretation we'd have to give her the modern equivalent of the finest robes, fancy rings, and a steak dinner if she showed remorse and came back. But "the Bible is not a good guide for national governance in the 21st century" doesn't tend to go over very well either.

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15 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

I think this has to be judged by those who are qualified to do so, and for that we'd need her back in 'Blighty.

 

 

Grow dreadlocks. :)

Perhaps, but how do you really monitor this without already compromising that safety. I mean, I don't necessarily fear her personally, and I appreciate she would be monitored heavily. But, you can't monitor her for the rest of her life surely? And there are still means of contact within circles of people who can cause harm to the public, that can slip under the radar. Then again, she could do that from Syria too.

 

Either way, there's gonna be a backlash from either side of the divide. Refusing her entry could lead to activists demanding she return to her native country but letting her in could mean blood on their hands for whoever veto's that.

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17 minutes ago, Locky said:

Either way, there's gonna be a backlash from either side of the divide. Refusing her entry could lead to activists demanding she return to her native country but letting her in could mean blood on their hands for whoever veto's that.

 

Does this girl have dual nationality?  What is her native country?

 

I've not read anywhere that she has, so on that basis I'm assuming she is born and bred British?

 

Also, is it not fairly obvious that if she were to return she would bearrested?, therefore not a "threat" as she would be locked up pretty much immediately?

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10 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Worryingly accurate :lol:

Found this on a blog called thingsiwanttopunchintheface. At least tell me they don't look like that!

 

dreadlocks.jpg

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Governor Tarkin
2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Found this on a blog called thingsiwanttopunchintheface. At least tell me they don't look like that!

 

 

You can rest easy, buddy. :)?

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43 minutes ago, The Frenchman Returns said:

Wow Justin Wow

 

 It misses the point it’s supposedly trying to make. 

He without sin cast the first stone. 

There are more verse that discredit that old meme. But I’ll leave there for folks to ponder.

 

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15 minutes ago, Dannie Boy said:

 

 It misses the point it’s supposedly trying to make. 

He without sin cast the first stone. 

There are more verse that discredit that old meme. But I’ll leave there for folks to ponder.

 

 

You're casting an awful lot of stones at this lassie yourself, Dannie. Not being God, you don't know what's in her heart and whether she's saying what she has to, to survive. Like said earlier by others, I think she's at it and possibly a lost cause, but that doesn't mean the solution is exile and statelessness, if for no other reason than her human rights demand the reverse and it'd be rank hypocrisy for the UK government to act similarly to how Daesh, or even she, would, given the chance.

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She'll probably come back and if she does, she'll end up in jail. Making decisions at 15 that ruin the rest of your life, subject you to unbelievably brutal and horrifying things, leave two of your children dead and one without a mother or a father. Mostly it just makes me sad.

 

 

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...a bit disco
1 hour ago, Homme said:

She'll not be the first young girl to go on holiday and come back preggers.

:lol:

 

Nailed it.

 

****er of a gap year she had tho'.

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3 hours ago, Zico said:

The law’s only been applied to dual nationals; doesn’t mean it can’t or shouldn’t be applied to UK nationals. And I’d apply it (and worse) to anyone who left to join IS.

but the point is it can't be applied in her case so it doesn't really matter what you would do. Ideally she will be tried in Syria and that will let the uk off the hook but, if they kick her out to Turkey and she gets on a plane to uk (not likely as she is about to give birth) then she has to be allowed in. At that point she should be arrested and jailed and her child removed

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Oot. And don't come back ever. We don't have a shortage of arseholes in this country as it is and refusing her re-entry will keep it at one less. She has shown no repentance whatsoever.  We can save the tens of thousands it would cost the state for keeping her in the clink. I can think of many better ways to spend the money. I sincerely hope the authorities don't buckle on this as it would set a very unhealthy precedent and hopefully serve as a deterrent to anyone else planning similar.

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42 minutes ago, Joey J J Jr Shabadoo said:

https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/02/15/uk/britain-mi6-al-qaeda-syria-gbr-intl/index.html?r=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

MI6 saying Al quaeda and Isis are regrouping and Europeans going home to politically unstable countries. Coincidence? 

 

Journalist is saying he found this girl by accident. Just wanted to talk to refugees not looking for her. 

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43 minutes ago, Mikey1874 said:

 

Journalist is saying he found this girl by accident. Just wanted to talk to refugees not looking for her. 

 

The story I heard on the news the other day was, that the journalist went to that camp as he'd heard that there were new refugees who'd managed to get out of one of the last IS held towns, whilst in the process of asking them what it was like he was approached by a woman who spoke with a London accent, and the rest as they say is history.

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Married to a fighter she was supporting hideous atrocities so, like it or not, she's basically a terrorist and should be treated as such if she has the temerity to return "home".

You simple do not get to play the "I was young and stupid" card when you are part of an organisation that beheads journalists and pushes homosexuals off of building roofs.

I do hope her father is proud that she has paid the price for his ideology.   

  

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1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

Married to a fighter she was supporting hideous atrocities so, like it or not, she's basically a terrorist and should be treated as such if she has the temerity to return "home".

You simple do not get to play the "I was young and stupid" card when you are part of an organisation that beheads journalists and pushes homosexuals off of building roofs.

I do hope her father is proud that she has paid the price for his ideology.   

 

And this is the problem they have in Syria. The refugee camps are holding camps till they work out what to do. Including who is a threat and who isn't. And who may be guilty of something and might face charges. That could take years or might not be able to be done. She could be there indefinitely. 

 

So people might say "let her come back to Britain". But that is up to Syria first. Syria's safety. 

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