Statement ?

[GorgieRules22]

20 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Yeah, taking the subject of us getting cheated, and twisting it in to a snide comment about recent club communications aimed at tackling unruly behaviour. Messed up reasoning for me.

No dig at the club. I’m a Hearts supporter who puts a lot of money into the club every year. 

[Beast Boy]

1 minute ago, GorgieRules22 said:

No dig at the club. I’m a Hearts supporter who puts a lot of money into the club every year. 

 

As am I. I just don’t think it’s the right thing to do, to take a topic like is being cheated by officials and use it as a way of having a pop at the club for statements regarding a totally different topic. 

[Bongo 1874]

2 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

Nope - the Rangers Get Out Of Jail card comes into play.....

Thank-you ?as it does also when the ugly two get the full roseburn fans jumping on the pitch at the end # Get out of jail card ? Police Scotlands thoughts in Glasgow voice ahh **** it let them have there fun it's only rangers there tha people ken's.

Edited December 3, 2018 by Bongo 1874

[redm]

12 minutes ago, redm said:

 

Well, nothing to stop her other than the fact that she's the boss of Heart of Midlothian and not any other club. If Dave King started wittering on about how Hearts fans are naughty I'm pretty certain folk would be astounded by his brass neckery, if they weren't busy laughing at the notion that he thought anyone would care to listen to him. Whataboutery really isn't a good look - it's an defence mostly deployed by little kids*. 

 

* deployed unsuccessfully by little kids 

[Bongo 1874]

40 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

Let’s use getting cheated by a cheating Hun prick of a referee as an excuse to attack the club. Good job. ?

Nobody is attacking the club mate we are all hearts supporters at the end of the day tell me did u enjoy rangers standing up almost the whole entire game goading singing the usual songs having a great time while our own support are demanded we must sit down or face being banned all people want is a fair system not one rule for one set of supporters and a different rule set for other supporters is that two much to ask u complian about the sfa being incompetent and I agree with u but so is are club being incompetent with our own fans the same fans the are pumping in money into the club on a daily basis.

[Phil Dunphy]

15 minutes ago, fabienleclerq said:

Whataboutary is when you say "aye but what about them".

 

Saying "aye we have some dicks that need dealt with and it'd be better if the club dealt with the away fans in at least the same manner " isn't whataboutary.

 

We are the only club that treats the away fans better than the home ones.

 

Spot on. 

 

Absolutely nothing wrong ring with the club taking a stance against the very behaviour they’re trying to eradicate from our own support. 

[davemclaren]

26 minutes ago, redm said:

 

I don't think the club has any intention of banning any of our fans, never mind 1000 of them. I think they just want people to play smart for a little while because we have a bit of scrutiny coming our way.

Nail on head, which sometimes needs to be kept down a bit until things blow over. 

[Beast Boy]

4 minutes ago, Bongo 1874 said:

Nobody is attacking the club mate we are all hearts supporters at the end of the day tell me did u enjoy rangers standing up almost the whole entire game goading singing the usual songs having a great time while our own support are demanded we must sit down or face being banned all people want is a fair system not one rule for one set of supporters and a different rule set for other supporters is that two much to ask u complian about the sfa being incompetent and I agree with u but so is are club being incompetent with our own fans the same fans the are pumping in money into the club on a daily basis.

 

Don’t think we should be using the fact we were cheated by bent officials as a topic to attack the club over its policy towards supporter behaviour. It takes the spotlight off a totally different issue, and one that I have far stronger feelings over than people standing or sitting at the game.

[GorgieRules22]

14 minutes ago, Glib and Shameless Crier said:

 

As am I. I just don’t think it’s the right thing to do, to take a topic like is being cheated by officials and use it as a way of having a pop at the club for statements regarding a totally different topic. 

After the recent derby the club issued a statement regarding banning fans for throwing coins etc on the field of play. Yesterday there was bottles and coins thrown at our goalkeeper, I think the club should come out and address this.

[Beast Boy]

Just now, GorgieRules22 said:

After the recent derby the club issued a statement regarding banning fans for throwing coins etc on the field of play. Yesterday there was bottles and coins thrown at our goalkeeper, I think the club should come out and address this.

 

That is a fair thing to include. Bent officiating, as a topic however, is cheapened by mashing it together with this.

[redm]

4 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

After the recent derby the club issued a statement regarding banning fans for throwing coins etc on the field of play. Yesterday there was bottles and coins thrown at our goalkeeper, I think the club should come out and address this.

 

Okay, and if they did do it... what would you want/expect the statement to say?

[upgotheheads]

It's the brass kneck that gets me. Madden let  Morelos  away with murder all  afternoon without a blush. 

He'll get away with it over and over. After Colum upset the Huns he spent the next weekend in the Championship. Madden will be strutting his stuff as long as he wants.

 

 

[amadjambo]

Away fans should be held to the same rules and standards as home fans. No more, no less.

 

If a couple of hundred fans standing in the main stand is a threat to the safety certificate, what about 3500 standing in the Roseburn stand?

 

Im all for getting our own house in order. That house is Tynecastle and everyone in it.

 

As a long term season ticket holder and shareholder of the club I absolutely do not want to be subjected to the kinds of sectarian singing I’ve heard at many away grounds from our own fans, and from the whole Roseburn stand on Sunday. It is not unreasonable to expect the club to try and tackle both problems at the same time, and it is not whatabouterry either.

[HMFC 86]

4 hours ago, Thomaso said:

 

We will need to disagree then. Hearts constantly get a rough ride from them!

 

Agree totally. Sutherland, Thomson and Stewart follow that agenda. The way the highlights are edited also suggests it more than just the presenters

[ando]

1 hour ago, amadjambo said:

Away fans should be held to the same rules and standards as home fans. No more, no less.

 

If a couple of hundred fans standing in the main stand is a threat to the safety certificate, what about 3500 standing in the Roseburn stand?

 

Im all for getting our own house in order. That house is Tynecastle and everyone in it.

 

As a long term season ticket holder and shareholder of the club I absolutely do not want to be subjected to the kinds of sectarian singing I’ve heard at many away grounds from our own fans, and from the whole Roseburn stand on Sunday. It is not unreasonable to expect the club to try and tackle both problems at the same time, and it is not whatabouterry either.

   Well said we have had two players assaulted from away fans and on numerous occasions they have been pelted with bottles, coins etc.

 Yesterday we had away supporters invading the field of play ,standing, singing sectarian songs along with UVF flags and throwing missiles at our players.

The stewarding of that end was a joke letting them come on the pitch and escorting them  back to where they came from.

Our leader has done a fantastic job but she also has a duty of care to our players and staff who work in the kiosks  and she has to get the balance right with our 

fans and don't take the passion out of football .

[GYL]

1 hour ago, HMFC 86 said:

 

Agree totally. Sutherland, Thomson and Stewart follow that agenda. The way the highlights are edited also suggests it more than just the presenters

The way they edited the Clare incident clearly shows an agenda IMO. They only showed it from one angle where as SKY showed it from another angle that clearly shows Clare played the ball...……. didn't stop that clown Danny Mills saying it was a Red card though, even the Ref on Ref watch said there was nothing in it.

 

Just seen trailer for Reporting Scotland.....former ref saying criticism getting personal BBC at it again!!!! (I know there's another thread on it) Time we called out the BBC

Edited December 3, 2018 by GYL

[Hearts_fan]

6 hours ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Then perhaps the club should look into developing a system that doesn’t leave us so reliant on them crossing our palms with silver. 

 

Notice I didn’t demand we cut anyone’s allocation. Just that the club should grow a backbone and condemn the actions of a support who come to town and throw missiles or punches at OUR players and supporters. Keen to take action and threaten our own supporters, not so keen to be seen taking a stance against those who wrong us. 

 

When we have zero chance of affecting their behaviour, we'd end up bleating about it every time we play them at Tynecastle.

 

Overtly criticising the fans of rangers or Celtic to the level that they deserve is only going to result in one thing – and it's a can of worms Budge and co will wisely avoid. 

 

There is no way a Hearts board can change the behaviour of such an endemically septic group of fans, and provoking them will make them even more vile. 

 

In a nutshell, it's impossible for a Hearts board to be critical of rangers fans for their sectarian behaviour when we have such an element of morons in our own support. 

 

Doing so would be the most ridiculous own goal in history as the instant reaction would be swift and comprehensive as people from all corners would point out that we have the same problem in house – so "who are we to criticise?"

 

We have the morons among us to thank for rendering our board impotent on this issue.

 

And that point needs to be rammed home for these idiots – their behaviour is tainting the experience for everyone else.

 

We have to get rid of the morons from within our own group once and for all before we can ask rangers fans to change.

 

And as others have pointed out, what businesspeople in their right minds would turn down the opportunity of maximising revenue when every penny counts, as it does right now?

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Hearts_fan

[Nookie Bear]

2 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

When we have zero chance of affecting their behaviour, we'd end up bleating about it every time we play them at Tynecastle.

 

Overtly criticising the fans of rangers or Celtic to the level that they deserve is only going to result in one thing – and it's a can of worms Budge and co will wisely avoid. 

 

There is no way a Hearts board can change the behaviour of such an endemically septic group of fans, and provoking them will make them even more vile. 

 

In a nutshell, it's impossible for a Hearts board to be critical of rangers fans for their sectarian behaviour when we have such an element of morons in our own support. 

 

Doing so would be the most ridiculous own goal in history as the instant reaction would be swift and comprehensive as people from all corners would point out that we have the same problem in house – so who are we to criticise.

 

We have the morons among us to thank for rendering our board impotent on this issue.

 

We have to get rid of the morons from within our own group once and for all before we can ask rangers fans to change.

 

And as others have pointed out, what businesspeople in their right minds would turn down the opportunity of maximising revenue when every penny counts, as it does right now?

 

 

Why can Ann not open that can of worms? Was this not what we all expected her to do when she took over? You know, get stuck into the blazers, stand up to the old firm etc

 

She seems happy to open that can when it comes to her own supporters.

 

But, as your last paragraph states, money takes precedence over the law and safety. 

[Hearts_fan]

11 minutes ago, Nookie Bear said:

 

Why can Ann not open that can of worms? Was this not what we all expected her to do when she took over? You know, get stuck into the blazers, stand up to the old firm etc

 

She seems happy to open that can when it comes to her own supporters.

 

But, as your last paragraph states, money takes precedence over the law and safety. 

 

I did explain why I think Budge and co cannot open that can of worms.

 

And I'm not sure I subscribe to the idea that "we all expected [Budge] to ... get stuck into the blazers, stand up to the old firm etc"

 

My understanding and recollection was that Budge arrived to help save Heart of Midlothian Football Club from extinction, and then re-build it, and put us on a sure footing for the future. 

 

I think people expect too much from one person. Budge and her team have done phenomenally, yet there is only so many hours in the day. 

 

I think it was more accurately Vladimir Romanov who would profess to wanting to "get stuck into the old firm and the blazers etc". And he did.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Hearts_fan

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

it's the hearts fans fault that the rangers fans were having a party yesterday

 

 

 

by the the same logic we can never ever comment on a offside goal, a bad tackle, diving etc because we have once done it in the recent past so it is therefore actually an impossibility to comment on it or start the sentence with something like :

 

"while we appreciate we still have some work to do in our own house and are continuing to do so, but we feel ....."

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hearts_fan]

12 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

it's the hearts fans fault that the rangers fans were having a party yesterday

 

 

 

by the the same logic we can never ever comment on a offside goal, a bad tackle, diving etc because we have once done it in the recent past so it is therefore actually an impossibility to comment on it or start the sentence with something like :

 

"while we appreciate we still have some work to do in our own house and are continuing to do so, but we feel ....."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

That's one giant baseless leap. Even by whataboutery standards.

 

You're avoiding the simple idea that criticising rangers fans would make us hypocrites and we'd be called out as such from every corner.

 

It would be a PR own goal of galactic proportions.

 

That's one reason why it's a can of worms.

 

The other reason is that the rangers fans wouldn't change their behaviour anyway – they'd only become worse.

 

Edited December 3, 2018 by Hearts_fan

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

There are times when it feels like we're on a statement a week. Would be nice to go without one for a while, all they do is boil a load of piss.

[GorgieRules22]

1 minute ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

There are times when it feels like we're on a statement a week. Would be nice to go without one for a while, all they do is boil a load of piss.

We tend to make statements though when there not needed and don’t make one when it’s needed. 

[haveyouheard 22]

Rangers fans are by and large sc vm but they know that 

Edited December 3, 2018 by haveyouheard 22

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

3 minutes ago, GorgieRules22 said:

We tend to make statements though when there not needed and don’t make one when it’s needed. 

 

No, I don't think that's true. A lot of what Ann has a go at needs addressed. But equally, some of the statements are a bit needless and read like a lecture. Can be quite divisive I feel.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

3 minutes ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

That's one giant baseless leap. Even by whataboutery standards.

 

You're avoiding the simple idea that criticising rangers fans would make us hypocrites and we'd be called out as such from every corner.

 

It would be a PR own goal of galactic proportions.

 

That's one reason why it's a can of worms.

 

The other reason is that the rangers wouldn't change anyway – they'd only become worse.

 

 

do you agree that it would be hypocritical of us to ever comment on a refereeing mistake which went against us given, amongst many other incidents, we've had referring mistakes going for us in the past, an obvious example being griffiths free kick for hibs or Jamie walkers dive against Celtic being another good one

 

 

 

 

 

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

9 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

do you agree that it would be hypocritical of us to ever comment on a refereeing mistake which went against us given, amongst many other incidents, we've had referring mistakes going for us in the past, an obvious example being griffiths free kick for hibs or Jamie walkers dive against Celtic being another good one

 

 

 

 

 

 

Two ways to answer this:

 

1) It's very rare for a club's season to be dictated by referees. Clubs tend to finish where they deserve to finish. Granted, cup competitions are a bit different but generally teams who play well progress. So moaning about referees is often a deflection from issues closer to home.

 

2) The standard of refereeing in Scotland is dreadful. Truly dreadful. So no-one should ever let major errors lie because the SFA deserve to be called out but owing to answer one, it's best not to be excessively partisan about it.

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

15 minutes ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

Two ways to answer this:

 

1) It's very rare for a club's season to be dictated by referees. Clubs tend to finish where they deserve to finish. Granted, cup competitions are a bit different but generally teams who play well progress. So moaning about referees is often a deflection from issues closer to home.

 

2) The standard of refereeing in Scotland is dreadful. Truly dreadful. So no-one should ever let major errors lie because the SFA deserve to be called out but owing to answer one, it's best not to be excessively partisan about it.

 

i agree with both of these points to a fair extent

 

but does it make it hypocritical of us to call out on bad decisions given Jamie walkers dive etc?

 

would it be a PR own goal?

 

should we just let it ride until we can say we've never committed foul play or benefitted from a refereeing mistake?

 

sorry this propensity to ask questions seems to be catching

 

 

[Hearts_fan]

17 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

do you agree that it would be hypocritical of us to ever comment on a refereeing mistake which went against us given, amongst many other incidents, we've had referring mistakes going for us in the past, an obvious example being griffiths free kick for hibs or Jamie walkers dive against Celtic being another good one

 

Yes, it could easily be argued that we – and every other team – are being hypocritical any time one makes a complaint about an offside or a dive, because we – and every other team – both benefit and suffer in these contexts.

 

And that's the point: every club and set of fans is hypocritical for claiming these examples of sporting injustice and so no party would have reasonable grounds to call us out on it because they inevitably do the same at times. 

 

But it's not every club and every set of fans that has a sectarian element (however big or small).

 

So if we – with a small contingent of morons among us who peddle their sectarian bile – complain about another club's sectarian fans, then Hearts would be roundly laughed off our soap box by people from every other club in Scotland, who wouldn't hesitate for a second to point out that we were "being a bit rich".

 

Even Celtic and rangers could laugh at us for doing so. Imagine the Celtic board or the rangers board making a critical statement about the behaviour of our fans... they've done it before and they looked ridiculous.

 

But you are also attempting to conflate sporting hypocrisy with social hypocrisy, and that undermines the value of the social morality in trying to eradicate sectarianism.

 

By comparing an offside decision with issues that relate to social injustice and actual hatred, the importance of the sectarian debate is diminished.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

35 minutes ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

i agree with both of these points to a fair extent

 

but does it make it hypocritical of us to call out on bad decisions given Jamie walkers dive etc?

 

would it be a PR own goal?

 

should we just let it ride until we can say we've never committed foul play or benefitted from a refereeing mistake?

 

sorry this propensity to ask questions seems to be catching

 

 

 

We can moan about the decisions amongst ourselves but beyond Levein having his say, the club shouldn't call out anything other than the most extreme examples. 

[Mikey1874]

1 hour ago, GorgieRules22 said:

We tend to make statements though when there not needed and don’t make one when it’s needed. 

 

You mean telling us about club affairs and progress is wrong? 

[redm]

1 hour ago, Dusk_Till_Dawn said:

 

No, I don't think that's true. A lot of what Ann has a go at needs addressed. But equally, some of the statements are a bit needless and read like a lecture. Can be quite divisive I feel.

 

Only if people insist on taking it personally. A lot of the time I think the statements are really for a whole other audience - a PR exercise aimed at the people who make decisions about safety, sanctions and security. We've seen a few statements like this now and people have absolutely lost the heid over them every single time, but what has actually changed? Not much, if anything at all.

[haveyouheard 22]

17 minutes ago, redm said:

 

Only if people insist on taking it personally. A lot of the time I think the statements are really for a whole other audience - a PR exercise aimed at the people who make decisions about safety, sanctions and security. We've seen a few statements like this now and people have absolutely lost the heid over them every single time, but what has actually changed? Not much, if anything at all.

Pretty much bang on the mark ,sadly for me it only takes a few pant wetters to whine these days for action  to be  taken in some shape or form Re how insignificant it seems to many 

[shaun.lawson]

10 hours ago, GorgieRules22 said:

Where is the statement this morning questioning the match officials on their decisions and what was said to Craig Levein pre match ? The sectarian singing from the away end for the entire 95 minutes ? The bottles thrown at Zlamal after he was assaulted by a Rangers player ?

Quick enough at releasing a statement of any home fan does any wrong doing though.

 

Budge is not Vlad. This isn't how she does things.

 

And how he did things - however entertainingly or occasionally brilliantly - was mostly to provide a distraction from the complete Horlicks he was making of it. That's what authoritarian leaders do: "Look over there!" It's childish and achieves nothing.

Edited December 3, 2018 by shaun.lawson

[Hearts_fan]

I’d add to my earlier posts that while there are the run of the mill refereeing errors that afflict all clubs, what happened yesterday under Madden was not run of the mill: it stank of bias, and Levein was understandably livid.

 

People will call that hypocritical of Levein, but he’s talking about deep-seated patterns of behaviour, stuff that he’s witnessed first-hand for three or four decades.

 

Anyone who was at the game yesterday could see for the whole 90 minutes the calibre of offences that were rewarded with free-kicks to rangers – real nothing situations that quelled Hearts’ numerous offensive plays. 

 

To to make matters worse, the likes of Morelos had free reign to do whatever they wanted, unpunished. 

 

We’re not hypocrites for observing institutional bias.

[luckydug]

4 hours ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

When we have zero chance of affecting their behaviour, we'd end up bleating about it every time we play them at Tynecastle.

 

Overtly criticising the fans of rangers or Celtic to the level that they deserve is only going to result in one thing – and it's a can of worms Budge and co will wisely avoid. 

 

There is no way a Hearts board can change the behaviour of such an endemically septic group of fans, and provoking them will make them even more vile. 

 

In a nutshell, it's impossible for a Hearts board to be critical of rangers fans for their sectarian behaviour when we have such an element of morons in our own support. 

 

Doing so would be the most ridiculous own goal in history as the instant reaction would be swift and comprehensive as people from all corners would point out that we have the same problem in house – so "who are we to criticise?"

 

We have the morons among us to thank for rendering our board impotent on this issue.

 

And that point needs to be rammed home for these idiots – their behaviour is tainting the experience for everyone else.

 

We have to get rid of the morons from within our own group once and for all before we can ask rangers fans to change.

 

And as others have pointed out, what businesspeople in their right minds would turn down the opportunity of maximising revenue when every penny counts, as it does right now?

 

 

It's quite simple Mrs Budge you cut their allocation down to one section. Easier to police and wrongdoers can be ejected without the prospect of a mass riot.

Or of course you can say nothing about it and take their cash using the excuse that we need the money.

 

[Hearts_fan]

29 minutes ago, luckydug said:

It's quite simple Mrs Budge you cut their allocation down to one section. Easier to police and wrongdoers can be ejected without the prospect of a mass riot.

Or of course you can say nothing about it and take their cash using the excuse that we need the money.

 

 

Like it's easy to police the wrongdoers amongst our own support?

 

Excuse for what?

[luckydug]

Excuse for allowing 3500 scumbags free reign in our stadium.

Hearts sold the tickets to all the fans so have to take responsibility.

[Doctor FinnBarr]

13 hours ago, Seymour M Hersh said:

 

I disagree. Remember in the Championship when we cut their allocation you hardly heard them meaning their team hardly heard them. For me it makes a great deal of difference.

 

That season was bliss

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

6 hours ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

Yes, it could easily be argued that we – and every other team – are being hypocritical any time one makes a complaint about an offside or a dive, because we – and every other team – both benefit and suffer in these contexts.

 

And that's the point: every club and set of fans is hypocritical for claiming these examples of sporting injustice and so no party would have reasonable grounds to call us out on it because they inevitably do the same at times. 

 

But it's not every club and every set of fans that has a sectarian element (however big or small).

 

So if we – with a small contingent of morons among us who peddle their sectarian bile – complain about another club's sectarian fans, then Hearts would be roundly laughed off our soap box by people from every other club in Scotland, who wouldn't hesitate for a second to point out that we were "being a bit rich".

 

Even Celtic and rangers could laugh at us for doing so. Imagine the Celtic board or the rangers board making a critical statement about the behaviour of our fans... they've done it before and they looked ridiculous.

 

But you are also attempting to conflate sporting hypocrisy with social hypocrisy, and that undermines the value of the social morality in trying to eradicate sectarianism.

 

By comparing an offside decision with issues that relate to social injustice and actual hatred, the importance of the sectarian debate is diminished.

 

Im not trying to compare sport with anything I gave that as a simple example of the general case that you appear to be making (apologies if I've ive misunderstood) that it is hypocritical to comment on anything unless you are completely clean of the issue you are complaining about (or does this only apply to the special case of sectarianism)

 

sounds a bit extreme to me and pretty much removes the validity of any complaint about fan behaviour from any club - for example im not sure if Falkirk have any sectarian issues but they're hardly in a position to complain about any fan behaviour given the actions of a minority of their fans towards dean shields

 

i understand you are passionate about this  it must have been a nightmare - perceived cheated on the park having to listen to 3500 rangers fans having a sectarian party  for pretty much the full 90 and perceiving that the club have just got to swallow it because of a few morons in our support 

 

if I felt that way I'd be a bit upset too

 

as it was I expect not to get many decisions against the OF so yesterday surprised nor upset me not one jot

 

the sectarian party the full end was having when Celtic were in town came to an abrupt halt when lafferty scored and that's probably the best way to take their money and keep them quiet

 

i thought we played ok and if we had any strikers we probably would have shut them  up

 

wasn't that bad a day in the circumstances 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MoncurMacdonaldMercer]

2 hours ago, luckydug said:

Excuse for allowing 3500 scumbags free reign in our stadium.

Hearts sold the tickets to all the fans so have to take responsibility.

 

agreed

 

mrs budge surely can't be that out of touch that she expected anything else from the rangers fans

 

she took the money knowing the price 

 

I don't disagree with that decision especially given some of the lost revenue numbers folk have quoted but let's just be honest about it

[Hearts_fan]

 

 

 

10 hours ago, luckydug said:

It's quite simple Mrs Budge you cut their allocation down to one section. Easier to police and wrongdoers can be ejected without the prospect of a mass riot.

Or of course you can say nothing about it and take their cash using the excuse that we need the money.

 

 

10 hours ago, luckydug said:

Excuse for allowing 3500 scumbags free reign in our stadium.

Hearts sold the tickets to all the fans so have to take responsibility.

 

I'm just confused by your use of the word "excuse". I think "reason" is the word you after. 

 

"We need the money" is the reason they get the whole stand at the moment. 

 

By saying Budge is using the money aspect as an excuse, you're implying she has an ulterior motive that isn't really the gain in revenue. That's clearly not the case. 

 

 

7 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

Im not trying to compare sport with anything I gave that as a simple example of the general case that you appear to be making (apologies if I've ive misunderstood) that it is hypocritical to comment on anything unless you are completely clean of the issue you are complaining about (or does this only apply to the special case of sectarianism)

 

sounds a bit extreme to me and pretty much removes the validity of any complaint about fan behaviour from any club - for example im not sure if Falkirk have any sectarian issues but they're hardly in a position to complain about any fan behaviour given the actions of a minority of their fans towards dean shields

 

i understand you are passionate about this  it must have been a nightmare - perceived cheated on the park having to listen to 3500 rangers fans having a sectarian party  for pretty much the full 90 and perceiving that the club have just got to swallow it because of a few morons in our support 

 

if I felt that way I'd be a bit upset too

 

as it was I expect not to get many decisions against the OF so yesterday surprised nor upset me not one jot

 

the sectarian party the full end was having when Celtic were in town came to an abrupt halt when lafferty scored and that's probably the best way to take their money and keep them quiet

 

i thought we played ok and if we had any strikers we probably would have shut them  up

 

wasn't that bad a day in the circumstances 

 

 

Of the idea that the best way to keep the old firm fans quiet is to beat their teams on the park, I agree.

 

 

7 hours ago, MoncurMacdonaldMercer said:

 

agreed

 

mrs budge surely can't be that out of touch that she expected anything else from the rangers fans

 

she took the money knowing the price 

 

I don't disagree with that decision especially given some of the lost revenue numbers folk have quoted but let's just be honest about it

 

Budge has been quite clear that there is an obligation to maximise revenue for the good of the business.

 

Budge has said numerous times that unless we can fill the School End ourselves, we simply have to sell to Celtic, rangers (and Hibs, I presume, although that relationship is thankfully a lot more constructive – e.g. reciprocal arrangements). 

 

Edited December 4, 2018 by Hearts_fan

[Erik]

19 hours ago, redm said:

 

Okay, and if they did do it... what would you want/expect the statement to say?

 

'Unfortunately, as a result of a number of unsavoury instances involving supporters housed within the Roseburn Stand during Sundays tie with The Rangers FC, we have had to take the decision to limit the number of tickets available to this club for any future fixtures at Tynecastle Park till such times as supporters of this club prove they can be trusted to adhere to the stadium rules.

 

This is not a decision we have taken lightly, and sadly it will be at great cost to us as a club financially - however, the safety of our players and staff is of utmost importance and should always take precedence over any other factor.

 

Ticket allocation for all Category A matches at Tynecastle park will now be based entirely on 'good behaviour' merit. Misbehave and your allocation will be reduced and will not be increased without a notable improvement in behaviour'.

 

Something like that would do nicely in my opinion.

 

Highlights the fact we're not doing it out of spite and in fact are being driven to do it against our will, puts a significant focus on the behaviour of the away support and of course brings them in line with the kinda threats (however thinly veiled they might be) which we've made against our own supporters.

[Thomaso]

17 hours ago, HMFC 86 said:

 

Agree totally. Sutherland, Thomson and Stewart follow that agenda. The way the highlights are edited also suggests it more than just the presenters

 

I heard that the one and only Chick Young edits the highlights!!

[Phil Dunphy]

1 hour ago, Erik said:

This is not a decision we have taken lightly, and sadly it will be at great cost to us as a club financially - however, the safety of our players and staff is of utmost importance and should always take precedence over any other factor.

 

As it should. The safety of our players, officials and supporters should be the number one priority. Even if it does hit us in the pocket. 

[bobskeldon]

Double standards by AB, I detest our own bigots and Ranger’s bigots equally. But threatening the home support with ‘bans’ (which I totally agree with) but inviting/ allowing hordes of bigots into our stadium with impunity is bizarre! 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

16 hours ago, Hearts_fan said:

 

That's one giant baseless leap. Even by whataboutery standards.

 

You're avoiding the simple idea that criticising rangers fans would make us hypocrites and we'd be called out as such from every corner.

 

It would be a PR own goal of galactic proportions.

 

That's one reason why it's a can of worms.

 

The other reason is that the rangers fans wouldn't change their behaviour anyway – they'd only become worse.

 

How is insisting on consequences for any arsehole action by whomever inside Tynecastle making us "hypocrites" precisely?

 

It's applying the rules of the stadium consistently!

[Erik]

30 minutes ago, bobskeldon said:

Double standards by AB, I detest our own bigots and Ranger’s bigots equally. But threatening the home support with ‘bans’ (which I totally agree with) but inviting/ allowing hordes of bigots into our stadium with impunity is bizarre! 

 

13 minutes ago, Geoff Kilpatrick said:

How is insisting on consequences for any arsehole action by whomever inside Tynecastle making us "hypocrites" precisely?

 

It's applying the rules of the stadium consistently!

 

 

Exactly.

 

If you want to be seen to be addressing a problem and taken in any way seriously, you simply cannot be seen to be being selective about who you choose to scrutinise and punish in addressing it.

 

If Budge wants a clampdown, then that either applies to EVERYONE, or not at all.

 

You cant just turn around and say, 'aye we're 100% against sectarianism and bigotry and throwing object on to the field of play or whatever else...... unless of course we really need your money or if theres too many of you to punish or if you're not here to support Hearts - then its absolutely fine, you're not our problem'. That is just daft.

 

Make it crystal clear that such behaviour will not be allowed or permitted - make sure that the club who's supporters are taking up the tickets make their supporters aware of it.

 

Then if / when they ignore it - you hit them hard and confirm that you'll be limiting their allocation next time around.

 

Then and only then will you have any sort of serious credence with regards to your intentions. Keep on doing it till they get it in to their thick skulls that they cannot just rock up in to Tynescastle and make the rules up themselves.

 

For as long as they know they can come to Tynecastle and do as they please - they will.

[redm]

2 hours ago, Erik said:

 

'Unfortunately, as a result of a number of unsavoury instances involving supporters housed within the Roseburn Stand during Sundays tie with The Rangers FC, we have had to take the decision to limit the number of tickets available to this club for any future fixtures at Tynecastle Park till such times as supporters of this club prove they can be trusted to adhere to the stadium rules.

 

This is not a decision we have taken lightly, and sadly it will be at great cost to us as a club financially - however, the safety of our players and staff is of utmost importance and should always take precedence over any other factor.

 

Ticket allocation for all Category A matches at Tynecastle park will now be based entirely on 'good behaviour' merit. Misbehave and your allocation will be reduced and will not be increased without a notable improvement in behaviour'.

 

Something like that would do nicely in my opinion.

 

Highlights the fact we're not doing it out of spite and in fact are being driven to do it against our will, puts a significant focus on the behaviour of the away support and of course brings them in line with the kinda threats (however thinly veiled they might be) which we've made against our own supporters.

 

Hmm. If the issue is safety we'd be expected to dish out the same treatment to our own fans though. The ones who pelted folk with random objects and decided to fling smokebombs around just a few weeks ago. People lose the heid about AB statements making us sound worse than we really are, while simultaneously insisting she draws attention to bad behaviour and/or safety issues within the stadium. It's nuts. 

 

 

[Ray Gin]

20 hours ago, amadjambo said:

Away fans should be held to the same rules and standards as home fans. No more, no less.

 

If a couple of hundred fans standing in the main stand is a threat to the safety certificate, what about 3500 standing in the Roseburn stand?

 

Im all for getting our own house in order. That house is Tynecastle and everyone in it.

 

As a long term season ticket holder and shareholder of the club I absolutely do not want to be subjected to the kinds of sectarian singing I’ve heard at many away grounds from our own fans, and from the whole Roseburn stand on Sunday. It is not unreasonable to expect the club to try and tackle both problems at the same time, and it is not whatabouterry either.

 

How do you suggest the club enforces this on away fans? Given that we don't sell directly to away fans we don't know who they are.