Section G / Section N emails

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, KingRudi_2012 said:

A few smokebombs getting thrown by a handful of idiots is not reflective of a whole section. With the CCTV the police are meant to have it should be easy to identify and ban them. 

Obviously not unfortunately. 

[sadj]

This thread is going to be enlightening.....

 

Imo this statement and action was needed. The behaviour of some this season has been out of order and for now limiting walk up sales in those areas makes it easier to police and to identify anyone behaving incorrectly. (Thats from someone who always goes in N when I can get down). Yes its shit for those individuals who enjoy being in those sections and can behave but its a temporary measure but one that is probably unavoidable given peoples behaviour recently.

[William H. Bonney]

I would have to agree that it's a slightly hysterical reaction from hearts. Identify the wee ***** responsible, ban them and move on. 

No need for collateral damage. 

[Victorian]

But.. but.. surely it's a free country an that.  Should be allowed to blind folk and kill them.    In our own stadium likes.

[Boab]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

This thread is going to be enlightening.....

 

Imo this statement and action was needed. The behaviour of some this season has been out of order and for now limiting walk up sales in those areas makes it easier to police and to identify anyone behaving incorrectly. (Thats from someone who always goes in N when I can get down). Yes its shit for those individuals who enjoy being in those sections and can behave but its a temporary measure but one that is probably unavoidable given peoples behaviour recently.

 

Surely there is a contradiction though if they say they are using CCTV and will take action with this information. Simply, if they are identifying now, why stop selling tickets ? No ?

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

You don’t throw the baby out with bath water though Dave.

 

Deal with the maximum of 15-20 involved and leave the rest of us alone to back the team. No other club in the league would act in this way, which is a pretty sad indictment. 

Makes me proud to be a Hearts supporter when you confirm that we are the only club willing to do something about fans breaking the law and behaving badly in our stadium. And if you believe it’s only 15-20 you haven’t been at any games. 

[BelgeJambo]

I get what the club are saying but my problem is the actual stewarding and policing at games like this. Are we being well served by these entities?

I personally don’t think we are.

what I saw from the Derby games was hundreds of Stewards/police just huddled in the corner between the main and Roseburn stands.

They knew it was a tense atmosphere and should be deployed round the perimeter instead of cowarding away in the corner serving no purpose whatsoever.

[maroonexile]

2 minutes ago, Pistol1874 said:

It is for the club to deal with, and they are. If you have a better solution, feel free to propose it. 

Nowhere in the ground allows you to stand, you may choose to stand and it may be tolerated, but it is not ‘allowed’. 

Finally, whenever the atmosphere is ‘special’ it is because either it’s a big game and the whole crowd are involved or because something else has happened, like poor refereeing or some other injustice, and the whole crowd is involved. If folk standing in G and N made for a great atmosphere, it would be like that every game. It isn’t.

So against Hibs, Celtic etc.songs are being started from sections A, X and P? Are you seriously suggesting that?

 

If you are a neutral and you haven’t picked your team yet, and you go to Easter Road and Tynecastle, at the moment you’d find similarly matched sides. At one ground there is a group of younger, active fans creating an atmosphere endorsed by the club, and at the other everyone is sat silent, only speaking up to complain or abuse fellow players while anyone who tries to introduce colour or noise is harassed by authorities sanctioned by the club to do so, which one presents the better experience?

 

The solution is easy. Person commits crime. Police deal with offender. Life goes on. 

[davemclaren]

1 minute ago, BelgeJambo said:

I get what the club are saying but my problem is the actual stewarding and policing at games like this. Are we being well served by these entities?

I personally don’t think we are.

what I saw from the Derby games was hundreds of Stewards/police just huddled in the corner between the main and Roseburn stands.

They knew it was a tense atmosphere and should be deployed round the perimeter instead of cowarding away in the corner serving no purpose whatsoever.

Then folk moan they can’t see. ?

[...a bit disco]

7 minutes ago, Pistol1874 said:

It is for the club to deal with, and they are. If you have a better solution, feel free to propose it. 

Nowhere in the ground allows you to stand, you may choose to stand and it may be tolerated, but it is not ‘allowed’. 

Finally, whenever the atmosphere is ‘special’ it is because either it’s a big game and the whole crowd are involved or because something else has happened, like poor refereeing or some other injustice, and the whole crowd is involved. If folk standing in G and N made for a great atmosphere, it would be like that every game. It isn’t.

 

Decent post.

[Don Dan]

2 minutes ago, sadj said:

This thread is going to be enlightening.....

 

Imo this statement and action was needed. The behaviour of some this season has been out of order and for now limiting walk up sales in those areas makes it easier to police and to identify anyone behaving incorrectly. (Thats from someone who always goes in N when I can get down). Yes its shit for those individuals who enjoy being in those sections and can behave but its a temporary measure but one that is probably unavoidable given peoples behaviour recently.

 

The behaviour of a certain group of our fans in has been out of order for 2 - 3 seasons now. We, the Club, need to weed them out as they are spoiling it for the rest of us.

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Dino Velvet said:

I would have to agree that it's a slightly hysterical reaction from hearts. Identify the wee ***** responsible, ban them and move on. 

No need for collateral damage. 

May be identifying them directly is proving difficult. There might be people who are in seats they shouldn’t be using tickets they ahouldn’t have etc , walk ups meeting their mates and causing grief. It is shit as I said above but unfortunately I think necessary short term to move things past the extra attention and scrutiny we will receive and to get those people who are causing issues out the sections. Someone standing is not an issue , might not be acceptable but it will be interesting to see how they are dealt with or if they aren’t clamped down on in the way some on here are having tantrums thinking they will

[soonbe110]

8 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

If I asked any of our players if they preferred my type of fan to yours, how many would pick yours? 

 

Horrible attitude that just means that all away teams would be as well having a home game when playing at Tynecastle. 

So you are suggesting that the only reason there is ever a great atmosphere at Tynie is because  you and a few of your pals stand during games? 

[maroonexile]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Makes me proud to be a Hearts supporter when you confirm that we are the only club willing to do something about fans breaking the law and behaving badly in our stadium. And if you believe it’s only 15-20 you haven’t been at any games. 

You’re proud that we, once again, will have the s*****t atmosphere in the league, and away fans will simply take over, with only their players getting encouragement?

 

What number would you place on it?

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

Aye, great rationale !

Just have to wait and see if it works. What’s your solution?

[sadj]

3 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

Surely there is a contradiction though if they say they are using CCTV and will take action with this information. Simply, if they are identifying now, why stop selling tickets ? No ?

 

Its going to take a wee while to get people to back off and the police to say ok we think its under control again. I just think that by not selling walk ups for those two sections they will be able to weed out those that need weeded more effectively. The fact they are talking about ticket checks implies some of the people identified are people who shouldn’t be there so its only been partly effective

[maroonexile]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

So you are suggesting that the only reason there is ever a great atmosphere at Tynie is because  you and a few of your pals stand during games? 

No it’s the Maracana style atmosphere that sitting in silence for 90 minutes creates.

[ethan14]

Got to say section g and n make the big games enjoyable atmosphere wise, the rest of the ground isnt great, last few years have been horrendous in my opinion. All for atmosphere me

Edited November 8, 2018 by ethan14
Spelling

[Boab]

Just now, soonbe110 said:

Just have to wait and see if it works. What’s your solution?

 

The solution is in the statement. Use the CCTV we have, and are using, and there's your solution. 

Tell what i'm missing.

[soonbe110]

15 minutes ago, KingRudi_2012 said:

Fans of every club in the country stand at various games. Why should we be any different?

Surely you get the posters point? Hearts have cut you slack by turning a blind eye to your standing at games. Unfortunately because a few of those standing can’t behave they are now having to take action. First step in such a situation is usually to make sure everyone is following stadium rules. Don’t shit in your own nest has always been good advice. 

[jamboiain13]

19 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

It’s interesting that our support seems to have this mentality. 

 

It’s for the police to deal with, not the fans in the ground. 

 

My scenario is this - I like to stand and sing at the games, being in N allows me to do this. If I move to the Gorgie can I still do that? Folk trot out the ‘Tynecastle has the best atmosphere’ line constantly on here. Do you think that comes from guys sitting on their arses and only opening their mouths to moan at the players? No it’s some of these guys who folk think it’s ok to suffer ‘collateral danage’ who are getting behind the team. Why don’t you ask a player what they’d rather have?

I manage to sing at Tynecastle from my seat in T, indeed, I find sitting doesn't inhibit my ability to sing and enjoy the match.  Sitting on my seat does not make me predisposed to 'moaning at the players' and I am also capable of jumping out my seat and getting excited as much as the folk who are standing.  I too get RIGHT behind my team every match.  Why anyone thinks that to do this supporters have to be standing is beyond comprehension.  It's this 'eff you jack I'm alright' attitude that sees some folk spouting the innocent victim rubbish when we should all be taking responsibility to weed out the Hibernianesque over exuberance that is creeping in to our following

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, sadj said:

May be identifying them directly is proving difficult. There might be people who are in seats they shouldn’t be using tickets they ahouldn’t have etc , walk ups meeting their mates and causing grief. It is shit as I said above but unfortunately I think necessary short term to move things past the extra attention and scrutiny we will receive and to get those people who are causing issues out the sections. Someone standing is not an issue , might not be acceptable but it will be interesting to see how they are dealt with or if they aren’t clamped down on in the way some on here are having tantrums thinking they will

This is  probably part of the issue. It certainly is, constantly, at away games. 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, ethan14 said:

Got to say section g and n make the big games enjoyable atmosphere wise, the rest of the ground isnt great, last few years have been horrendous in my opinion. All for atmosphere me

Big games the whole place can be rocking. N and G probably have a positive effect on those but to say they are the reason they are enjoyable games i think is false. 

 

Atmosphere is great but you can make an atmosphere without sectarianism , without pyros and without breaking the law. 

 

The young lads are probably going to cop a lot of the flack for this and some of them might deserve it some won’t but again until the police and others are satisfied we are on top of it there has to be a plan of attack and i think what the club have done has to be viewed as the sensible approach.

[Pistol1874]

Just now, maroonexile said:

So against Hibs, Celtic etc.songs are being started from sections A, X and P? Are you seriously suggesting that?

 

If you are a neutral and you haven’t picked your team yet, and you go to Easter Road and Tynecastle, at the moment you’d find similarly matched sides. At one ground there is a group of younger, active fans creating an atmosphere endorsed by the club, and at the other everyone is sat silent, only speaking up to complain or abuse fellow players while anyone who tries to introduce colour or noise is harassed by authorities sanctioned by the club to do so, which one presents the better experience?

 

The solution is easy. Person commits crime. Police deal with offender. Life goes on. 

Without G and N, there would be silence in these big games. That’s your considered position? Songs are started in N and G most weeks (80% of which are the Olly Lee song), but the atmosphere is only at its best sometimes, and always it involves the other sections, including A, X and P joining in.

 

How many Hearts fans do you think went to try out Easter Road. before settling on Hearts and Tynecastle? Did you?

 

Colour and noise was introduced into the away end several times last week, all had the potential to cause serious injury. 

 

There may be some temporary inconvenience to you which is regrettable, but hopefully for the greater good.

If folk want to come to the game there are rules, plenty of latitude as you yourself testified to earlier, but If they choose to break those rules and materially impact on the safety and enjoyment of others, they run the risk of not being allowed back. 

 

[soonbe110]

10 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

You’re proud that we, once again, will have the s*****t atmosphere in the league, and away fans will simply take over, with only their players getting encouragement?

 

What number would you place on it?

Just proud that we have the backbone to tackle what is a growing issue in Scottish football judging by recent events. Would have been easy to just duck the issue and blame stewards and police for not doing their jobs properly. 

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

This is  probably part of the issue. It certainly is, constantly, at away games. 

I think a few lads have mentioned on here that they are banned from Tynie but never miss the away games. Iv no issue with that but again if you know thats happening away from home you have to suspect they find ways around it at home too. No doubt they help the atmosphere away from home but I think a lot of people forget just how good Tynie can be when we are doing well without any of the shite stuff

[soonbe110]

9 minutes ago, Boab said:

 

The solution is in the statement. Use the CCTV we have, and are using, and there's your solution. 

Tell what i'm missing.

Identification of all the culprit should using current technology/resources. It’s already been mentioned on here re fans in areas they don’t have tickets for. How many fans regularly stand in g and n without actually having tickets for those areas? More than a few I’d guess. How do the police identify the culprits. 

[sadj]

4 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Just proud that we have the backbone to tackle what is a growing issue in Scottish football judging by recent events. Would have been easy to just duck the issue and blame stewards and police for not doing their jobs properly. 

Stewards will have directives from the policing policy. Unfortunately (old ground here but) the SIA training is so god awful and please don’t sue us or arrest us orientated that it is usually easier to only deal with idiocy like pitch invasions or odd punch up and retrospectively deal with poor behaviour by groups or individuals in groups. 

[Beast Boy]

Fans not bans etc. Library. Wibble.

[Boab]

2 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

Identification of all the culprit should using current technology/resources. It’s already been mentioned on here re fans in areas they don’t have tickets for. How many fans regularly stand in g and n without actually having tickets for those areas? More than a few I’d guess. How do the police identify the culprits. 

 

It's not easy, I get that, but it's only the suspension of sales in those areas that seems too much. CCTV, extra checks, aye, fair enough.

 

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, sadj said:

Stewards will have directives from the policing policy. Unfortunately (old ground here but) the SIA training is so god awful and please don’t sue us or arrest us orientated that it is usually easier to only deal with idiocy like pitch invasions or odd punch up and retrospectively deal with poor behaviour by groups or individuals in groups. 

I agree. If we want stewards to get actively involved in rooting out troublemakers we need a lot more of them and to pay them a lot more. Similarly a lot more police need to be involved. If both of these happen folk will be complaining  they couldnt follow the game because stewards and police were in their line of sight. 

[Alex Kintner]

Well I for one am shocked at the identity of the poster having a total wibble-fest on this thread  

 

 

Edited November 8, 2018 by To Be Frank

[sadj]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

 

It's not easy, I get that, but it's only the suspension of sales in those areas that seems too much. CCTV, extra checks, aye, fair enough.

 

But if people are in areas/seats they shouldn’t be by stopping walk ups you can identify if certain seats should be empty from there you can then check out why they are in those seats and progress from there. Its crap for those of us who like N for a game but imo its unavoidable short term to help sort the issue

[soonbe110]

1 minute ago, Boab said:

 

It's not easy, I get that, but it's only the suspension of sales in those areas that seems too much. CCTV, extra checks, aye, fair enough.

 

Think the seat sale suspension will only be for  a few games. Those sections will already be close to full anyway as walkups have been on sale for most home games up to Xmas for some time. 

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

While action is needed I think this is overkill. If the cctv is not up to the job then the police should be. Hindering our own fans getting to games is not the answer. 

 

Is their any mention of reduced tickets for Celtic, rangers or hibs? Or are we again ignoring the behaviour of away fans? 

[...a bit disco]

Just now, Sir Vladimir of Romanov said:

While action is needed I think this is overkill. If the cctv is not up to the job then the police should be. Hindering our own fans getting to games is not the answer. 

 

Is their any mention of reduced tickets for Celtic, rangers or hibs? Or are we again ignoring the behaviour of away fans? 

 

Full statement to follow apparently.

[Boab]

1 minute ago, soonbe110 said:

Think the seat sale suspension will only be for  a few games. Those sections will already be close to full anyway as walkups have been on sale for most home games up to Xmas for some time. 

 

Well, if that is the case, not really a big issue.....and, arguably, no point in doing !

 

[Don Dan]

I don’t know if this happens but anyone who buys a walk up needs to provide photo ID which would be linked to their seat.

Edited November 8, 2018 by Dannie Boy

[Sir Vladimir of Romanov]

1 minute ago, ...a bit disco said:

 

Full statement to follow apparently.

 

Fair enough, it will I'm sure be covered in that. 

[kila]

Fuming that the pitch got damaged, flares/smoke bombs melt the top of the synthetic strands damaging the hybrid bit helping keep the turf firm!

 

 

[The White Cockade]

people blaming Mrs Budge for Hearts trying to clamp down on moronic behaviour

 

blame the f*****ng morons 

they are the ones spoiling it for everybody else

every other club only does whataboutery but we actually try and do something about it

and the majority of the fans should applaud that and work with the club to get rid of the element who

are spoiling it for everybody else

 

the amount of fans on here who disagree with that is just embarrassing

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Meanwhile........

 

.....in Q we have been warned to stop slurping our Champers and to munch our languistine quietly 

[Boyces beard]

30 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

You’re proud that we, once again, will have the s*****t atmosphere in the league, and away fans will simply take over, with only their players getting encouragement?

 

What number would you place on it?

 The atmosphere takes care of its self if the team are winning and playing well, to suggest its because you and a few of your mates stand up and start the songs is rather quite amusing.

[sadj]

5 minutes ago, soonbe110 said:

I agree. If we want stewards to get actively involved in rooting out troublemakers we need a lot more of them and to pay them a lot more. Similarly a lot more police need to be involved. If both of these happen folk will be complaining  they couldnt follow the game because stewards and police were in their line of sight. 

I reckon the cute wee darkhaired lass thats usually around lower N should just be made to tackle all misbehaving punters. I will , if that rule is introduced ensure I my behaviour deteriorates into the realms of requiring dealt with.... 

 

There is no legal amount of stewards to x number of punters but people in power of Security companies want 1to every 50/100 punters thats bordering on 200 staff nevermind the stewards out and about or at entrances kiosks etc. No chance there is enough SIA badged capable stewards to do that and be relied upon to actively involve themselves in rooting out issues. Policing might be based on Police Scotland as opposed to just local policing policies but again if you had 1000 idiots and put your police force in to deal with them it would become a far bigger incident. Its a difficult thing to be proactive about.

[Alex Kintner]

2 minutes ago, jambo3tevie said:

 The atmosphere takes care of its self if the team are winning and playing well, to suggest its because you and a few of your mates stand up and start the songs is rather quite amusing.

 

[sadj]

10 minutes ago, Sir Gio said:

Meanwhile........

 

.....in Q we have been warned to stop slurping our Champers and to munch our languistine quietly 

You don’t buy champers your a cheap Aberdonian (as is your birth right) ? more like sip your lambrini or frosty jack quietly... 

Edited November 8, 2018 by sadj

[sadj]

37 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

You’re proud that we, once again, will have the s*****t atmosphere in the league, and away fans will simply take over, with only their players getting encouragement?

 

What number would you place on it?

Id say its probably closer to 80-100 or so split between N and G. Away fans have never taken over even when its a shit atmosphere. Why would they start now. When we play well theres a better atmosphere and thats not going to disappear just cause less than .5% of the crowd get their asses booted and told to behave.

[maroonexile]

1 minute ago, jambo3tevie said:

 The atmosphere takes care of its self if the team are winning and playing well, to suggest its because you and a few of your mates stand up and start the songs is rather quite amusing.

So, among other things, we literally only sing when we’re winning? And we’re proud of that? 

 

Its not me and a few few of my mates, I stand with one guy I know, and know a few others around about. It’s a demographic of Hearts supporters that don’t like Hibs coming and singing “15,000 boring b******s” during derbies, or numerous teams singing “where’s your famous atmosphere”. Half of you would be better joining in with them for all the support out players get from you (not you as in personally).

 

What’s the difference between what you  described N and G doing and what goes on at Dortmund, or Napoli, or St Mirren. Like minded people congregate and sing, it’s how atmosphere is created, it doesn’t just happen.

 

People in this forum just don’t get it, which is why younger fans don’t use it, and oppose the ‘boring’ style of fandom that’s endorsed here.

[1874robbo]

8 minutes ago, jambo3tevie said:

 The atmosphere takes care of its self if the team are winning and playing well, to suggest its because you and a few of your mates stand up and start the songs is rather quite amusing.

Great point.

but what about when the team isn’t winning and not playing that well?

[Notts1874]

Just now, sadj said:

Id say its probably closer to 80-100 or so split between N and G. Away fans have never taken over even when its a shit atmosphere. Why would they start now. When we play well theres a better atmosphere and thats not going to disappear just cause less than .5% of the crowd get their asses booted and told to behave.

Don't waste your time trying to reason with him mate.