Gay Pride Marches

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

It's a forum, a place for debate, and a thread on gay pride specifically. 

 

 

Indeed. And if someone has an opinion, it is interesting to find out why they have that opinion and what exactly that opinion is (e.g. how strong it is and with which boundaries and exceptions). It's also interesting to work out if the opinion has any basis in fact, if facts are involved.

 

It would be a boring old world if it we just accepted other people's opinions as being valid, full stop. How would be able to then mould our own opinions?

[maroonexile]

8 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

This is where we disagree. If someone, for example, employs hate speech then there should be no tolerance of that. Hate speech very often leads to hate action.

 

What we as a society need to do is decide what we will and won't allow. We largely do that already, it's just that the line changes over time. It's also sometimes uncomfortable to decide where that line is since there should generally be a right to free speech as well. It's not black and white, but in my opinion we should not have an absolute tolerance of everything and everyone.

It’s probably a freedom of speech debate we want to have so I’ll bow out after a final point, in case I derail the thread any further.

 

Subjectivity is extremely dangerous, and presuming there can be a truly tragic objective definition of hate speech is, for me, highly intolerant and unacceptable.

 

Your opinion, and mine for that matter, are only as important as the context they are framed in.

[maroonexile]

2 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Indeed. And if someone has an opinion, it is interesting to find out why they have that opinion and what exactly that opinion is (e.g. how strong it is and with which boundaries and exceptions). It's also interesting to work out if the opinion has any basis in fact, if facts are involved.

 

It would be a boring old world if it we just accepted other people's opinions as being valid, full stop. How would be able to then mould our own opinions?

Couldn’t agree more.

 

I may not agree with someone disagreeing with a gay pride march, but I’ll defend their right to do so.

[Governor Tarkin]

6 minutes ago, redjambo said:

It's not black and white, but in my opinion we should not have an absolute tolerance of everything and everyone.

 

Correct. That would be ******* madness.

[redjambo]

12 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

Fair enough.

 

Sensationalist? So if someone disagreed publicly with a gay pride parade what would happen, do you think? For example, a Muslim in religious grounds? 

 

I’d rather not be either. Interestingly the numbers of homosexuals per capita among the upper echelons of the Nazi Party was exceptionally high.

 

There is too much vitriol in society. Perhaps we can agree on that?

 

Just wrapping up your second Godwin award as we speak.

 

Interestingly "Between 1933 and 1945, an estimated 100,000 men were arrested for violating Nazi Germany’s law against homosexuality, and of these, approximately 50,000 were sentenced to prison. An estimated 5,000 to 15,000 men were sent to concentration camps on similar charges, where an unknown number of them perished. (Source)

[The Brow]

Theyre a good day out tbf. 

 

My only issue is the ones that dress up in full bondage with the dog masks and all sorts, they've been at every pride march I've attended and its a bit much watching a grown man squeeze himslf into a tiny pair of rubber pants and a dog mask whilst his mate pretends to do him up the arse in broad daylight.   

 

Try explaining that shit to a young child ffs. 

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

Correct. That would be ******* madness.

 

Almost tempted to have another musical interlude.

[shaun.lawson]

20 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

This is where we disagree. If someone, for example, employs hate speech then there should be no tolerance of that. Hate speech very often leads to hate action.

 

What we as a society need to do is decide what we will and won't allow. We largely do that already, it's just that the line changes over time. It's also sometimes uncomfortable to decide where that line is since there should generally be a right to free speech as well. It's not black and white, but in my opinion we should not have an absolute tolerance of everything and everyone.

 

All true. It's also very much the case that when people with stupid, bigoted, or wrong opinions are met with diametrically opposite opinions, expressed equally forcefully, they almost always start bleating about "freedom of speech". But no-one's denying them their freedom of speech. They're free to express whatever the heck they want short of hate speech; and everyone else is free to express whatever the heck they want too.

 

The problem for the "freedom of speech" advocates is they don't like being made to look stupid, bigoted or wrong - and just so happen to have almost always been on the wrong side of history when it's come to almost any form of social change. In other words, they sought to deny freedoms and freedom of speech to all sorts of oppressed groups down the decades - and if they had the chance, many still would.

 

As I said earlier in the thread: long live tolerance. And total ****ing disdain. 

[Unknown user]

5 minutes ago, The Brow said:

Theyre a good day out tbf. 

 

My only issue is the ones that dress up in full bondage with the dog masks and all sorts, they've been at every pride march I've attended and its a bit much watching a grown man squeeze himslf into a tiny pair of rubber pants and a dog mask whilst his mate pretends to do him up the arse in broad daylight.   

 

Try explaining that shit to a young child ffs. 

 

If explaining things to kids is a concern, don't take them to gay pride marches (or rugby clubs for that matter!) The 6 or 7 I've been to are inclusive, friendly and fun, we even took our nephew along one year and didn't need to explain anything except that gays are boys who prefer boys to girls and there's nothing wrong with that. 

[The Brow]

5 minutes ago, Smithee said:

 

If explaining things to kids is a concern, don't take them to gay pride marches (or rugby clubs for that matter!) The 6 or 7 I've been to are inclusive, friendly and fun, we even took our nephew along one year and didn't need to explain anything except that gays are boys who prefer boys to girls and there's nothing wrong with that. 

I do feel you have completely missed my point there so I'll explain further. 

 

Never been to a rugby club where there's grown men indulging in full on fetish behaviour that wouldn't be allowed anywhere else. I clearly dont mean the majority of the attendees, they're good fun. I mean the rubber dildo waving men dressed up like bondage puppies who seem to confuse a pride march with an open air version of 'Torture Garden'.

 

You go to some very weird rugby clubs my good man.  

[peter_hmfc]

19 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Almost tempted to have another musical interlude.

 

OH **** YES! MAKE IT ****ING SO IF IT'S GOING TO BE MADNESS!

[Unknown user]

Just now, The Brow said:

I do feel you have completely missed my point there so I'll explain further. 

 

Never been to a rugby club where there's grown men indulging in full on fetish behaviour that wouldn't be allowed anywhere else. I clearly dont mean the majority of the attendees, they're good fun. I mean the rubber dildo waving men dressed up like bondage puppies who seem to confuse a pride march with an open air version of 'Torture Garden'.

 

You go to some very weird rugby clubs my good man.  

Again, if that's a concern don't take your children, no one's forcing you along. I've taken a child along without any problems and was able to explain things just fine. 

 

(I have to wonder if you've ever been to a rugby club by the way! But that's off topic and another debate for another day)

[The Brow]

Just now, Smithee said:

Again, if that's a concern don't take your children, no one's forcing you along. I've taken a child along without any problems and was able to explain things just fine. 

 

(I have to wonder if you've ever been to a rugby club by the way! But that's off topic and another debate for another day)

 

To be fair the pissing-in-a-shoe-and-drinking-it-whilst--their-mates-off-in-the-name-of-banter is rampant at every rugby club ive ever been too. 

 

Which I why I go every week. Boom tish. 

 

Seriously tho, fair play to you if you can explain a grown man dressed as a rubber clad puppy pretending to bum his mate and what a dildo is to a 4 year old without lying. My point was more that it wouldn't be allowed in any other environment and they are supposed to be inclusive. I may be more of a prude than you tho so bash on. 

[redjambo]

6 minutes ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

OH **** YES! MAKE IT ****ING SO IF IT'S GOING TO BE MADNESS!

 

Ah, but which one?   Oh well, night night...

 

 

[Unknown user]

4 minutes ago, The Brow said:

 

To be fair the pissing-in-a-shoe-and-drinking-it-whilst--their-mates-off-in-the-name-of-banter is rampant at every rugby club ive ever been too. 

 

Which I why I go every week. Boom tish. 

 

Seriously tho, fair play to you if you can explain a grown man dressed as a rubber clad puppy pretending to bum his mate and what a dildo is to a 4 year old without lying. My point was more that it wouldn't be allowed in any other environment and they are supposed to be inclusive. I may be more of a prude than you tho so bash on. 

Like I say, I've been to my share of prides, but I've never seen the image you've got burned into your brain! I don't think it's as big a problem as you fear 

[The Brow]

Just now, Smithee said:

Like I say, I've been to my share of prides, but I've never seen the image you've got burned into your brain! I don't think it's as big a problem as you fear 

 

**** sake. 

 

Has kickback turned in to twitter? 

 

You can pretend if you want that Im traumatised by it and im making it up. You win. 

[Unknown user]

2 minutes ago, The Brow said:

 

**** sake. 

 

Has kickback turned in to twitter? 

 

You can pretend if you want that Im traumatised by it and im making it up. You win. 

**** sake yourself, I'm pretending nothing. You've mentioned the same image in three posts, that it bothers you, and I'm saying I've never seen it. If it makes you feel better you can read "you've got burned into your brain" as "you have concerns about"

 

I'll say it yet again though, if it's such a concern, don't take your kids. 

[FWJ]

1 hour ago, maroonexile said:

The word tolerance has lost all meaning.

 

Some people should look at what respecting other people actually entails.

 

The absolute vitriol directed at anyone who doesn’t agree 100% with these marches is far more aggressive than any homophobia I’ve ever witnessed, and I have several gay friends.

Really?

 

Really really?

 

 

[The Brow]

Just now, Smithee said:

**** sake yourself, I'm pretending nothing. You've mentioned the same image in three posts, that it bothers you, and I'm saying I've never seen it. If it makes you feel better you can read "you've got burned into your brain" as "you have concerns about"

 

I'll say it yet again though, if it's such a concern, don't take your kids. 

 

This is twitter. 

 

Help. 

[redjambo]

5 minutes ago, The Brow said:

 

This is twitter. 

 

Help. 

 

Out of interest, what is it that describes Twitter that you are also attributing to your exchange with Smithee? I don't quite get the analogy.

[Unknown user]

7 minutes ago, redjambo said:

 

Out of interest, what is it that describes Twitter that you are also attributing to your exchange with Smithee? I don't quite get the analogy.

I used less than 280 characters to be fair

[The Brow]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Out of interest, what is it that describes Twitter that you are also attributing to your exchange with Smithee? I don't quite get the analogy.

 

The relentless missing of the point then turning it into me having an actual issue with them myself, rather than the issue being that I had to explain it to my mates kid what was going on and that Gay Pride wasnt supposed to be about fetish, its about Gay Pride. 

 

Thankfully, I only have one nightshift this week. 

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Smithee said:

I used less than 280 characters to be fair

 

[redjambo]

Just now, The Brow said:

 

The relentless missing of the point then turning it into me having an actual issue with them myself, rather than the issue being that I had to explain it to my mates kid what was going on and that Gay Pride wasnt supposed to be about fetish, its about Gay Pride. 

 

Thankfully, I only have one nightshift this week. 

 

Thanks. I don't use or really read Twitter much so didn't know that was how it worked.

 

I would just explain it to a kid as "they're just being silly", I suppose, which is exactly what they were doing (unless it was a serious piece of performance act). Did you really explain it to the kid using the word "fetish" or invoking that concept?

[The Brow]

1 minute ago, redjambo said:

 

Thanks. I don't use or really read Twitter much so didn't know that was how it worked.

 

I would just explain it to a kid as "they're just being silly", I suppose, which is exactly what they were doing (unless it was a serious piece of performance act). Did you really explain it to the kid using the word "fetish" or invoking that concept?

 

Nope, I said they were off to a fancy dress party and he seemed fine enough with that and the dildo was a policemans truncheon. 

 

Genuinely dont know how anyone could have missed them but whatever. 

[AuldReekie444]

this thread seems like it is gone.

[redjambo]

1 minute ago, The Brow said:

 

Nope, I said they were off to a fancy dress party and he seemed fine enough with that and the dildo was a policemans truncheon. 

 

Genuinely dont know how anyone could have missed them but whatever. 

 

Good for you, except that he will probably now look at policemen in a different light.

 

It's a tough one to call. I can see what you're saying, that there shouldn't be overt sexualisation like that when kids can be present. On the other hand, that's what you're going to get with a gay pride parade, so you kind of know what to expect. As long as you can explain things off to the kids, if you're going to take them, then it should be fine. In my opinion of course.

[Unknown user]

19 minutes ago, The Brow said:

 

The relentless missing of the point then turning it into me having an actual issue with them myself, rather than the issue being that I had to explain it to my mates kid what was going on and that Gay Pride wasnt supposed to be about fetish, its about Gay Pride. 

 

Thankfully, I only have one nightshift this week. 

Which point did I miss? The one I addressed repeatedly by saying don't take kids if explaining it is such a concern?

As red says, describe it as silliness or whatever you like, that's up to you, all I can say is that I've never seen what you describe in my pride experiences. Certainly no reason not to hold gay pride marches though IMO.

 

11 minutes ago, The Brow said:

 

Nope, I said they were off to a fancy dress party and he seemed fine enough with that and the dildo was a policemans truncheon. 

 

Genuinely dont know how anyone could have missed them but whatever. 

 

FWIW until your last couple of posts I thought you were talking about a hypothetical situation with the kid, but you dealt with it in an appropriate fashion IMO and probably won't take a kid to gay pride again. Cool.

I still don't see a strong argument against pride events though. 

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Smithee

[redjambo]

10 minutes ago, AuldReekie444 said:

this thread seems like it is gone.

 

Aye, well thanks for your constructive contribution. Do you actually want to add anything, or just run in, snipe, and run out again?

[Geoff the Mince]

6 hours ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

It's not? That's mine and Geoff the Mince's holidays ruined then.

[maroonexile]

7 hours ago, FWJ said:

Really?

 

Really really?

 

 

Yes. 

Take a look at the ending of Tim Farron’s political career. Or the gay marriage cake incident. Not quite specific to gay pride marches, but you’ll get the context. Tolerance aye?

 

I don’t agree with the above positions, but everyone should be entitled to an opinion. It’s more about freedom of expression than disagreeing with gay pride et al, as set out in my previous posts.

Edited May 29, 2018 by maroonexile

[FWJ]

32 minutes ago, maroonexile said:

Yes. 

Take a look at the ending of Tim Farron’s political career. Or the gay marriage cake incident. Not quite specific to gay pride marches, but you’ll get the context. Tolerance aye?

 

I don’t agree with the above positions, but everyone should be entitled to an opinion. It’s more about freedom of expression than disagreeing with gay pride et al, as set out in my previous posts.

Well I don’t want to sound patronising but lucky you.  I’ve seen incidents of homophobia that have ended up with people in hospital.

 

This probably won’t be popular but I’m not very keen on the really OTT aspects of Gay Pride marches either, maybe because I’m a bit of an old bore, but I think the ‘gently gently’ approach is more effective - the way Stonewall works for example rather than some other organisations.

But by the same token I go to every Scotland home game and a fair few away too and some of the more OTT garb and actions of the TA are a bit cringe-worthy too.

Edited May 29, 2018 by FWJ

[John Findlay]

Seven pages and rising. Ooooh errrr  Mrs/Mr. 

[luckydug]

I'm not really a fan of parades at all.

I don't like the inconvenience of roads being closed off and groups of people of whatever persuasion or cause taking over half a city. It's just a big pain as far as I am concerned.

By all means have a rally , go to the meadows or some other park in whatever city but I don't see why the rest of the population should have their lives disrupted.

Edited May 29, 2018 by luckydug

[John Findlay]

5 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I'm not really a fan of parades at all.

I don't like the inconvenience of roads being closed off and groups of people of whatever persuasion or cause taking over half a city. It's just a big pain as far as I am concerned.

By all means have a rally , go to the meadows or some other park in whatever city but I don't see why the rest of the population should have their lives disrupted.

Go on you were tempted to type a big pain in the arse.

[Unknown user]

2 hours ago, maroonexile said:

Yes. 

Take a look at the ending of Tim Farron’s political career. Or the gay marriage cake incident. Not quite specific to gay pride marches, but you’ll get the context. Tolerance aye?

 

I don’t agree with the above positions, but everyone should be entitled to an opinion. It’s more about freedom of expression than disagreeing with gay pride et al, as set out in my previous posts.

That's a bit disingenuous. The marriage cake incident didn't happen because of people innocently expressing their views, it was about them illegally treating a section of society as second class citizens and claiming it's ok because they're christians. It's against the law to discriminate based on sexuality, but it isn't to hold a pride march.

I personally think the reaction was over the top, but that was about their illegal actions not their views - if they'd acted within the law and still held their views nothing would have happened.

 

Meanwhile, gays are battered and killed across the world, and in america Gay Panic (he tried to kiss me so I killed him) can be used as a defence against murder in 50 out of 52 states.

 

Edited May 29, 2018 by Smithee

[JimKongUno]

8 minutes ago, luckydug said:

I'm not really a fan of parades at all.

I don't like the inconvenience of roads being closed off and groups of people of whatever persuasion or cause taking over half a city. It's just a big pain as far as I am concerned.

By all means have a rally , go to the meadows or some other park in whatever city but I don't see why the rest of the population should have their lives disrupted.

 

This is where im at with it , had never even seen the march until last year when i got stuck in traffic for an hour  . Go for it put your leather vests on and have a gathering but does it really have to take over the whole town centre

[doctor jambo]

2 hours ago, maroonexile said:

Yes. 

Take a look at the ending of Tim Farron’s political career. Or the gay marriage cake incident. Not quite specific to gay pride marches, but you’ll get the context. Tolerance aye?

 

I don’t agree with the above positions, but everyone should be entitled to an opinion. It’s more about freedom of expression than disagreeing with gay pride et al, as set out in my previous posts.

Tim farron was not only a politician , but a bigot.

that is what ended him

The cake incident too was an example of bigotry- as a person you can hold whatever views you want, but as a provider of goods and services you are NOT allowed to discriminate, and rightly so

[luckydug]

28 minutes ago, John Findlay said:

Go on you were tempted to type a big pain in the arse.

I almost did. Quite innocently of course.☺

I'm expecting someone to remind me about our regular cup parades.☺

[Governor Tarkin]

5 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said:

 

 

[Unknown user]

3 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

Ooft now there's a film! Harrowing but brilliant.

[Governor Tarkin]

1 minute ago, Smithee said:

Ooft now there's a film! Harrowing but brilliant.

 

Quite. 

 

Unfortunately I've been compelled to use this .jpg twice this morning.

[Geoff the Mince]

14 minutes ago, Smithee said:

Ooft now there's a film! Harrowing but brilliant.

Cook the man some eggs . .

[Geoff the Mince]

20 minutes ago, Governor Tarkin said:

 

 

 is that you with the moustache ? 

[Governor Tarkin]

3 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

 is that you with the moustache ? 

 

 

 

[peter_hmfc]

13 hours ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

I don't get that GIF

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you mean you don't understand it or it's not showing? If it's not showing it's the guy srcastically applauding and then giving the v-sign twice.

 

It was in the Day For Freedom thread.

[i8hibsh]

1 minute ago, peter_hmfc said:

 

Do you mean you don't understand it or it's not showing? If it's not showing it's the guy srcastically applauding and then giving the v-sign twice.

 

It was in the Day For Freedom thread.

 

 

 I see him do that but I thought I was missing something as people are talking it up as the 'greatest ever' and I just thought I was misisng something.

[peter_hmfc]

12 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

 I see him do that but I thought I was missing something as people are talking it up as the 'greatest ever' and I just thought I was misisng something.

 

It's just ****ing hilarious to be fair.

 

[Unknown user]

56 minutes ago, Geoff the Mince said:

Cook the man some eggs . .

 

I can't face that gif so here's another

 

 

[Geoff the Mince]

1 hour ago, Smithee said:

 

I can't face that gif so here's another

 

 

Thats what you call a well deserved kick in !!