Francis Albert Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Just how many of the participants of the (English) Premiership are going to feature in the Euro 2008 semi-finals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Emre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I hardly think that's a fair indicator to be honest. If it's not the best league in Europe, The EPL is definately 'top 4.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Ballack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 The Coca-Cola Kid wouldn't get near the Premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 What countries do the Managers of the top 6 teams in the Premiership come from? What country did their player of the season come from? What country does their national team coach come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 21, 2008 Author Share Posted June 21, 2008 I hardly think that's a fair indicator to be honest. If it's not the best league in Europe, The EPL is definately 'top 4.' I am not sure it's that unfair either. We are constantly told that the English national team suffers because the Premiership atracts the best players in Europe and so English players don't get to develop. Yet of the 80+ squad players in the semi-finals we have two Premiership players named so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 What i think is very unfair is that the english League has such a high co-efficient but this co-efficient is so high due to the 90 % of talented foreigners in the league take foreigners out the game, the SPL would probs still 10th or something but the Premiership would be about 9th Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost in leith Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 I am not sure it's that unfair either. We are constantly told that the English national team suffers because the Premiership atracts the best players in Europe and so English players don't get to develop. Yet of the 80+ squad players in the semi-finals we have two Premiership players named so far. Have Italy beaten Spain already Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cisc0 K1d Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 The best player in the biggest club in England clearly doesn't think it's the greatest in the world, he seems to be dreaming of bigger and better things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benny Factor Posted June 21, 2008 Share Posted June 21, 2008 Just how many of the participants of the (English) Premiership are going to feature in the Euro 2008 semi-finals? Ballack Emre And possibly... Torres Xabi Alonso Reina Arbeloa Fabregas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K1874M Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Think the champions league semi finalists is a more even way to compare. Only one player in the russian side play out side russia, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Aye, just Ivan Saenko. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Emre Emre's off to Fenerbache at the end of the tournament. Tuncay of Boro is in the squad aswell though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
this_is_my_story Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 The Premiership may well be one of the most exciting leagues in the world, but it certainly isn't the best. The argument that it is, simply because the EPL had 3 clubs in the semi-finals of the Champions' League, is utter guff. A league's merit can't be based on the CL - a few good games and you're in the final? For example, Liverpool weren't even the best team in Mersyside, let alone Europe, when they won the CL in 2005. The final EPL standings showed this. Similarly, when Greece triumphed in Euro 2004, did anyone really believe they were the the best national side in the continent? No, they qualified from their group, and happened to win their next 3 games in a tournament which has a structure simlar to that of the CL. If you were to take the top four sides from say, England, Spain, Italy, Germany and Holland, and have them compete in a 20-team league with each team playing each other once at home and once away, only then would you have a fair reflection on who really was the best side in Europe. And it wouldn't be an English side. La Liga is technically the best league in the world, by a street. Add to that the fact that the cream of South American talent will always be found there, due to the climate, and the huge spending power of the big clubs. Look down the years, when was the last time the world's best players weren't plying their trade in La Liga? Messi, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario, Stoichkov, Zidane, Rivaldo, Figo, Xavi, Raul... go further back and remember the likes of Cruyff and Maradona at Barca... when was the last time the EPL could claim to have the world's best player? And don't give me any of your Cristiano pish!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tazio Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 when was the last time the EPL could claim to have the world's best player? And don't give me any of your Cristiano pish!! Why not, he proves your argument. He is being hailed as the best payer in the world and where does he want to go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 BallackEmre And possibly... Torres Xabi Alonso Reina Arbeloa Fabregas Probably the most telling of them all. Hailed as one of the best players in the EPL, yet doesn't even get into the starting line-up for Spain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PresidentRomanov Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I would say that last seasons Champions League tournament, proves beyond all doubt, that it is the best league in the world - although personally, I have little interest in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Seems a bit ridiculous to look at national teams as an indicator of the strength of club leagues. The CL said what needed to be said about the strength of the premiership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toxteth O'Grady Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Seems a bit ridiculous to look at national teams as an indicator of the strength of club leagues. The CL said what needed to be said about the strength of the premiership. The strength is purely due to the TV money and media hype it receives. It's a league that relies heavily on the foreign talent it has attracted with the lure of money. It may be the Greatest league in the world (whatever that means) but the English National team doesn't seem to be benefiting much from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 The strength is purely due to the TV money and media hype it receives.It's a league that relies heavily on the foreign talent it has attracted with the lure of money. It may be the Greatest league in the world (whatever that means) but the English National team doesn't seem to be benefiting much from it. I can't remember which English player it was but he was asked the question what would be the pinnacle of his ambitions. The answer was 'winning the CL' rather than winning the World Cup. For a lot of the 'elite and rich' players the national team is a poor third behind the club team and individual celebratory and fame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I was wondering if this was more than pure co-incidence: Apart from the 1970 World Cup where England automatically qualified as reigning holders. The England national team did not qualify for a major championships until the Euros of 1980 which were held in Italy. At that time in England alot of teams had a strong influx of Irish(both sides of the border), Scots and Welsh. It was us Scots who did dominate. Now the top league in England is supplemented by foreign players from the traditionally strong nations of Eueope with the notable exception of Italy(at present). Once again the English national team has failed to qualify for a major tournament. Personally I think there is more than co-incidence at play. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 Fair points about the CL and club vs international football. But still you'd expect the best league to attract the best players and for players from that league to make more of an impression than they have. One thing is certain. If Premiership players WERE setting the alpine flora on fire, it would be used by English pundits as further evidence of the "greatest league in the world" theory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboBG Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 FIFA have categorys of leagues. 6 in Europe and 2 in South America are 1st category. This is: 1. England 2. Germany 3. France 4. Italy 5. Spain 6. Holland 7. Brazil 8 Argentina This is not only sporttechnical levels. This is full levels of organization of Championships, like general managemet, TV and another medias, supporters, publicity and ect. and ect... I think that Premiership is the first, because thay keep football business. After BBC film for Premiership coruption FA don't maked hard steps against this negatives. Because this working agaist business. Billions forighner money coming to Premiership. No questions. From where and from what coming money. Maeby this is not interesting. I don't know. You remember italys storys, germans with referees and betings...For this, for me Premiership and FA are the greats. Thay keep business and supporters make a lunch with football any given Sunday. Inch by Inch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin_T Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 I think what last seasons Champions League semi-finals demonstrates is that the EPL has 4 of the world's strongest club sides in Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool and Manchester United. Beyond that? I think the league is pretty mediocre to be honest. Tottenham and Everton failed to make much of an impression on the UEFA cup, it would be interesting to see the head to head stats for Spanish V English clubs in the past 10 years. All that said, I think that there are only two contenders for being considered strongest league in the world, La Liga and the Premiership. Serie A degenerated into a poorly supported farce many years ago now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaz_top_2004 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 If the question was the Premiership's top four v the rest, then the Prem wins, as was shown in the Champions League. But outwith that, they are pretty mediocre. Spurs were beaten at home by Getafe, a mid-table Spanish side, then lost to PSV, while Everton - the closest to the top four - were knocked out by the side who finished 4th in Serie A, Fiorentina. Add to that, Blackburn going out to a Greek side and Bolton losing to a side Rangers knocked out, it just shows that the EPL is overrated. Another interesting question is how many genuine top class players at the peak of their careers have chosen to move to England? Perhaps Ballack is the only one - Ronaldo, Fabregas etc moved there when they were younger while Zidane, Figo, Buffon, Cannavaro etc all chose Italy or Spain when they moved. You could argue Torres has gone at the peak of his career, but look how much easier he was found it to score in England - 14 goals in La Liga two years ago, about 25 for Liverpool last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hearts Heritage Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Apart from the 1970 World Cup where England automatically qualified as reigning holders. The England national team did not qualify for a major championships until the Euros of 1980 which were held in Italy. John Well except for getting the the Euro Semis in 1968 where they eliminated Scotland in the qualifiers despite Scotland winning 3-2 Wembley in 1967. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Well except for getting the the Euro Semis in 1968 where they eliminated Scotland in the qualifiers despite Scotland winning 3-2 Wembley in 1967. Sorry I didnt make myself clearer in my original post. I was referring didnt qualify for a major tournament in the 1970s. With the exception of Mexico 70. Which as defending holders they didnt need to qualify for. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephs Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Emre's off to Fenerbache at the end of the tournament. Tuncay of Boro is in the squad aswell though. Is Tuncay not suspended? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makween Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 For me, the Premiership's the second strongest league in Europe after the Spanish league. The way that the past few years have gone in the Champions League have proven (in my opinion, obviously) that England has the strongest top three or four teams out of any of the big leagues. After that, though, I think that you're really down to quite a poor "middle class" of teams - Everton, Portsmouth, Blackburn etc. For me, La Liga has a better "middle class" and is therefore a better league. I don't think that all that many valid points have been made in this thread, mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 I don't think that all that many valid points have been made in this thread, mind. Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makween Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Sorry about that. That's quite okay. Do you apologise every time that someone says that they disagree with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted June 22, 2008 Author Share Posted June 22, 2008 That's quite okay. Do you apologise every time that someone says that they disagree with you? No. And I don't disagree with the perfectly valid point you made. Just wonder why most other points made on the thread are dismissed without explanation as being invalid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Is Tuncay not suspended? Don't think so, played in goals v the Czechs when Volkan got sent off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephs Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Don't think so, played in goals v the Czechs when Volkan got sent off. Ignore me, didn't read the OP properly!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 Where the players in the EC semis play is no kind of indicator at all of the quality of a domestic league. If it was, then the Russian league would be the first or second best league in the world - and it clearly isn't. FWIW, the Premiership has never had the best players in the world. For a few years between about 2000 and 2005 it was the most exciting league in Europe but it's far too predictable now. The Spanish and German leagues are much more exciting now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Makween Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 No. And I don't disagree with the perfectly valid point you made. Just wonder why most other points made on the thread are dismissed without explanation as being invalid. In that case, I'm sorry. Still don't see why you were. Going back to your original point, I'm basically just not convinced that the amount of Premiership players there is a very good measure. If it was, that'd probably make the Russian league the best in Europe(an football. Is Russia even a part of Europe?). The Spanish and German leagues will both have more players there, but that's because Spain and Germany are both still there. Then there's Toxteth O'Grady : What countries do the Managers of the top 6 teams in the Premiership come from? What country did their player of the season come from? What country does their national team coach come from? Not really relevant at all as a measure of how good the Premiership is. It is, of course, relevant as a measure of how good England are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun.lawson Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 The Premiership may well be one of the most exciting leagues in the world, but it certainly isn't the best. The argument that it is, simply because the EPL had 3 clubs in the semi-finals of the Champions' League, is utter guff. A league's merit can't be based on the CL - a few good games and you're in the final? For example, Liverpool weren't even the best team in Mersyside, let alone Europe, when they won the CL in 2005. The final EPL standings showed this. Similarly, when Greece triumphed in Euro 2004, did anyone really believe they were the the best national side in the continent? No, they qualified from their group, and happened to win their next 3 games in a tournament which has a structure simlar to that of the CL. If you were to take the top four sides from say, England, Spain, Italy, Germany and Holland, and have them compete in a 20-team league with each team playing each other once at home and once away, only then would you have a fair reflection on who really was the best side in Europe. And it wouldn't be an English side. La Liga is technically the best league in the world, by a street. Add to that the fact that the cream of South American talent will always be found there, due to the climate, and the huge spending power of the big clubs. Look down the years, when was the last time the world's best players weren't plying their trade in La Liga? Messi, Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Romario, Stoichkov, Zidane, Rivaldo, Figo, Xavi, Raul... go further back and remember the likes of Cruyff and Maradona at Barca... when was the last time the EPL could claim to have the world's best player? And don't give me any of your Cristiano pish!! Sorry, but I just can't agree with this at all. In the past - 2005, say, or even as far back as 1997 when Dortmund won the CL - I would've done, as it plainly was possible for a side to enjoy a one-off Cup run and make off with the booty. But while I don't think we can judge the strength of the EPL purely on its CL representatives, and feel that La Liga is better in overall depth, as evidenced in the UEFA Cup, it's blindingly obvious who the strongest clubs in Europe are now: and they're all from England. England had 3 sides in the semis last season and this - and in 07/8, Man Utd beat Chelsea, who beat Liverpool, who beat Arsenal. In other words, only English clubs were good enough to eliminate other English clubs! This is entirely down to wealth, and the enormous amount of money English clubs receive not just from the CL, but SKY too: not to mention Chelsea's unique bottomless pit. But had the 20-team league you mentioned been in place last season, I think English clubs might well have occupied positions 1-4: especially given Arsenal humiliated the reigning Champions, and Liverpool eased past the Italian Champions too. These things are cyclical, and it might be that Mourinho's arrival at Inter is the trigger for Italian clubs to return to the top - but I think you're being wilfully blind if you deny what's been increasingly clear over the past two seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxford City Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 As Harry Pearson pointed out in the Guardian, if the Premiership is the strongest league in the world because they had 3/4 Champions League semi-fianlists, that means that the Championship must be the strongest league in England because they had 3 out of 4 FA Cup semi-finalists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
topcat Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 The strength is purely due to the TV money and media hype it receives.It's a league that relies heavily on the foreign talent it has attracted with the lure of money.. Other leagues get TV money as well. What truly sets the EPL apart is the huge attendances (The championship sells about as many than Serie A) combined with the way that English Supporters seem willing to pay far more than their counterparts in continental Europe. The Bundesliga actually dominates the list of big crowd pullers. In Germany even some mid table teams that aren't going to get a sniff of a trophy pull in 40,000 while the likes of Dortmund may pack about as many as Manchester United http://www.footballeconomy.com/stats/stats_att_06.htm But the fact that they're not making people pay ?30+ for the cheap seats means that they wont be in contention to sign the kind of players that win "Footballer of the Year Awards" Whether this makes it a worse league is another question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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