Footballfirst Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) On 5/29/2018 at 21:17, RobboM said: The floodgates have opened and the deadline for applicaions to the East of Scotland has been extended to 31 May. This has caused a flurry of last minute meetings at many clubs, tonight Bo'ness Utd have announced they are applying. Newtongrange, Arniston and Penicuik were amongst the applicants coming forward in the past week. All now waiting on whether Linlithgow Rose will jump or just stay Junior and hoover up all the prizes in the East next season. Linlithgow has jumped. Linlithgow Rose F.C. @LRFC1889 3h3 hours ago EoS League Application: For clarification, the club submitted an application to join the EoS League earlier this week. A meeting with club members had already been arranged for Monday 4th June and will go ahead as planned in line with the club's constitution. Edited May 31, 2018 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Belt 1874 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Good luck to Linlithgow. I wonder if Bo’ness will apply now. Can’t be having no derby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Stick a fork in Junior fitba, it's done Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Central Belt 1874 said: Good luck to Linlithgow. I wonder if Bo’ness will apply now. Can’t be having no derby! Bo'ness already announced they have applied before today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 58 minutes ago, hmfc_liam06 said: Stick a fork in Junior fitba, it's done Seems like it, at least in the East Region. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 surprised the Glasgow clubs and more especially the Ayrshire teams aren't clamouring to join the pyramid, although I'm not altogether sure of the route to be taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, weegie jambo said: surprised the Glasgow clubs and more especially the Ayrshire teams aren't clamouring to join the pyramid, although I'm not altogether sure of the route to be taken. At the moment there isn't really a West of Scotland equivalent for them to move into even if they were so inclined. It may be possible for the existing West & Ayrshire leagues to join the pyramid in their entirety but there will need to be some re-thinking of the balance at Level 5 (Highland League/Lowland League) to take into account the huge imbalance in scale between the feeder leagues. I've been surprised just how complacent the Scottish Junior Football Association and the East Region JFA have been throughout this exodus. Not a single statement, plan or reaction to the wholesale dismantling of the Junior grade in the east. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, weegie jambo said: surprised the Glasgow clubs and more especially the Ayrshire teams aren't clamouring to join the pyramid, although I'm not altogether sure of the route to be taken. I think that's part of the problem. It think they will be waiting for the establishment of a WoSFL at tier 6, with play offs between the EoS, WoS and SoS leagues for promotion to the Lowland league. As the pyramid is extended, then I believe there has to be more automatic promotion/relegation and playoffs, rather than a single play off place as entry to the SPFL. Edited May 31, 2018 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, RobboM said: At the moment there isn't really a West of Scotland equivalent for them to move into even if they were so inclined. It may be possible for the existing West & Ayrshire leagues to join the pyramid in their entirety but there will need to be some re-thinking of the balance at Level 5 (Highland League/Lowland League) to take into account the huge imbalance in scale between the feeder leagues. I've been surprised just how complacent the Scottish Junior Football Association and the East Region JFA have been throughout this exodus. Not a single statement, plan or reaction to the wholesale dismantling of the Junior grade in the east. I find all these new moves quite exciting for the future of Scottish football. I know how successful Ayrshire teams are and reasonably well supported too. It would be great for a new pathway to be created. I agree it seems strange that there has been no comment on the mass exodus and how the leagues will go forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 13 minutes ago, Footballfirst said: I think that's part of the problem. It think they will be waiting for the establishment of a WoSFL at tier 6, with play offs between the EoS, WoS and SoS leagues for promotion to the Lowland league. As the pyramid is extended, then I believe there has to be more automatic promotion/relegation and playoffs, rather than a single play off place as entry to the SPFL. An automatic promotion of one or two places with play-offs would seem to be a better way forward. The pathway is too slow and long winded right now. It's hit or miss whether you get a new face in League Two. Better to have a definite promotion/relegation scenario than the current one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Moysey Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Believe the West teams voted fairly unanimously against leaving the Junior set up. Think though that with the exodus from the East now, as FF is suggesting the West Juniors will likely follow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central Belt 1874 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 43 minutes ago, Stanley_ said: Bo'ness already announced they have applied before today Nice one. What’s the West regions reasoning behind staying junior then? Is it a lack of ambition or finances that concern them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 20 minutes ago, Big Moysey said: Believe the West teams voted fairly unanimously against leaving the Junior set up. Think though that with the exodus from the East now, as FF is suggesting the West Juniors will likely follow. In the recent survey only 4 West Superleague teams voted against the idea of a pyramid. Auchinleck, Glenafton, Kirkintilloch, Cumnock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said: Nice one. What’s the West regions reasoning behind staying junior then? Is it a lack of ambition or finances that concern them? They will want a regionalised league set up for the WoS, which is not an unreasonable requirement at that level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 5 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said: Nice one. What’s the West regions reasoning behind staying junior then? Is it a lack of ambition or finances that concern them? Don't know the answer to that one. Surely not finances as I'm pretty sure some clubs are on a good financial footing already, that wouldn't change if they showed some ambition to go further IMO 9 minutes ago, Central Belt 1874 said: Nice one. What’s the West regions reasoning behind staying junior then? Is it a lack of ambition or finances that concern them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, weegie jambo said: Don't know the answer to that one. Surely not finances as I'm pretty sure some clubs are on a good financial footing already, that wouldn't change if they showed some ambition to go further IMO Some of those bigger fish have no ambition to play at a higher level. Their ambition is the Junior Cup. The guy at the head of the Scottish JFA has, for years, lobbied against the pyramid. This may be just job protection but there have been a lot of scare stories over the years about the money that would needed to be spent on ground facilities, the distances they would need to travel if successful, the loss of tradition, the loss of the Junior Cup and so on. With Kelty winning the East Superleague last year, defecting to the East League, winning the East League and the play off to the Lowland League all those arguments have proven to be false or grossly exaggerated. Clubs in the east have looked at that example, seen the realistic prospect of becoming licensed and gaining entry to the Scottsh Cup, potential to move up beyond winning leagues, potential ground improvement grants, an U20 league to progress their own players, a set of league fixtures known in advance, and decided not to listen to the SJFA promises of jam tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, RobboM said: Some of those bigger fish have no ambition to play at a higher level. Their ambition is the Junior Cup. The guy at the head of the Scottish JFA has, for years, lobbied against the pyramid. This may be just job protection but there have been a lot of scare stories over the years about the money that would needed to be spent on ground facilities, the distances they would need to travel if successful, the loss of tradition, the loss of the Junior Cup and so on. With Kelty winning the East Superleague last year, defecting to the East League, winning the East League and the play off to the Lowland League all those arguments have proven to be false or grossly exaggerated. Clubs in the east have looked at that example, seen the realistic prospect of becoming licensed and gaining entry to the Scottsh Cup, potential to move up beyond winning leagues, potential ground improvement grants, an U20 league to progress their own players, a set of league fixtures known in advance, and decided not to listen to the SJFA promises of jam tomorrow. That's an excellent summary, thanks. I could see junior clubs with a good infrastructure like Pollock or Auchenleck easily holding teir own and going places. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobboM Posted May 31, 2018 Author Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, weegie jambo said: That's an excellent summary, thanks. I could see junior clubs with a good infrastructure like Pollock or Auchenleck easily holding teir own and going places. Thanks .... I was going to add Cat 1 Refs at Lowland League (level 5) but not sure if this is an advantage Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, RobboM said: Thanks .... I was going to add Cat 1 Refs at Lowland League (level 5) but not sure if this is an advantage I imagine their incompetence will trickle down to that level too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
savage Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Kelty were ahead of the game here. Going to be hard to get out of eos into lowland now Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Don't most Lowland league sides have zero supporters? University teams etc. I guess they'll be replaced over time with some of these well supported teams? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, savage said: Kelty were ahead of the game here. Going to be hard to get out of eos into lowland now This is something that will have to change also. you can't possibly get away with a 1 up/1 down I would think it will change to at least 2 with at least a play off for a 3rd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamie1874 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 The west teams will not leave until something is changed in the current pro set up. Playing in the SOS league is a massive drop in standard compared to the current WoS junior premier division. (And revenue) Add to that from next season the top league will be 16 teams instead of 12 gives teams more gate money against well supported sides. If if there are serious discussion about a WoS league, at tier 6 level where the top west junior sides can move to then it will happen, until then it won’t. On on top of that there should be discussions about converting the current Scottish junior cup into a non league cup, invite the tier 5 and 6 sides, however have it like the big Scottish where the higher up the league sides don’t enter it until a bit further in the competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, pablo said: Don't most Lowland league sides have zero supporters? University teams etc. I guess they'll be replaced over time with some of these well supported teams? They don't get big crowds but they're basically the biggest clubs from the East of Scotland league, e.g.Spartans. East Stirling are in there too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pablo Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, MacDonald Jardine said: They don't get big crowds but they're basically the biggest clubs from the East of Scotland league, e.g.Spartans. East Stirling are in there too. Both those teams have fans though. I was more meaning Stirling University and BSC Glasgow. Surely the big junior sides will replace them eventually? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, pablo said: Both those teams have fans though. I was more meaning Stirling University and BSC Glasgow. Surely the big junior sides will replace them eventually? You would think so, although how BSC are in there at all is a mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 5 hours ago, jonnothejambo said: Great news that the 'real' Rose, and by far the biggest junior club in the league, bar none, has put it's hat in the ring. Good luck to them. Eh, the real Rose is in Bonnyrigg. Check the current league table - natural order. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Treasurer Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 If this is done properly it could be a real shot in the arm for Scottish football in general. Teams with ambition will have a clear path to progress, while clubs further down the chain will find their level and be comfortable. The genuine chance of different teams coming into the league set-up keeps things fresh and also opens up the possibility of fresh investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davemclaren Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 19 minutes ago, jonnothejambo said: Morning Dave. I expected you to respond..... ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boozyuzi Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Apparently there are now 39 teams in the EofS League next season with 3 leagues of 13 likely then play offs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboJen Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 I'll admit to knowing very little about Junior football. This thread has been really interesting and informative so just thought I'd say thanks to everyone who's contributed. Would be good if the team-led shake up of Junior/lower level football has a knock on effect on the wider game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Boozyuzi said: Apparently there are now 39 teams in the EofS League next season with 3 leagues of 13 likely then play offs. I would be surprised if they retained three leagues of 13 all at level 6 for more than one season. I'd imagine that they might end up with one league at level six , seven and eight, or one at six and two at seven. The key objective should be to open up the promotion process between the SPFL and Highland/Lowland and the Lowland to the EoS. Only then would you have an effective pyramid. However, there is always the chance that self interest will see the lower league SPFL teams vote against any proposal to open access to the ambitious teams from the lower levels. For teams like Cowdenbeath, a relegation might be a death knell. Having jumped a season earlier than the rest, I'd expect that Kelty will consolidate their position in the top three or four teams in the Lowland League (I don't think they will win it at the first time of asking), but competition is going to be pretty fierce if there is only one Lowland League place available for the 39 EOS and 15 SoS teams. You'd expect Bonnyrigg and Linlithgow to be favourites, but with other East Superleague sides for competition, it might come down to a couple of play-off games that make the difference. Edited June 1, 2018 by Footballfirst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted June 1, 2018 Share Posted June 1, 2018 Tranent 1 Glenrothes 0 last ever Junior league game at Foresters Park last game as a Junior outfit next week's East of Scotland Cup Final. Mon the Belters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonedinoz Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 I've came in late to this thread, but....I've always wondered what the benefits were to staying in the 'juniors'? If a team is good enough in the lower 'senior' leagues it will progress, if not then surely it has found its level?. So my question...what is the benefit to those junior clubs that do NOT want to join the 'pyramid'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyW Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, maroonedinoz said: I've came in late to this thread, but....I've always wondered what the benefits were to staying in the 'juniors'? If a team is good enough in the lower 'senior' leagues it will progress, if not then surely it has found its level?. So my question...what is the benefit to those junior clubs that do NOT want to join the 'pyramid'? I manage a junior team that’s not going to the EOS. There’s meeting happening to ensure the juniors join the pyramid . As far as I’m aware after speaking to a few other managers there going to follow the others. Especially the bigger clubs who would lose out on revenue of the other bigger clubs left and went to EOS. As far as we’re concerned there’s been no evidence to state there will be any benefits of moving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meadows Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Lee Wallace is in the process of Joining Kelty Hearts, under 20s coach is his current official title. Thus may change depending on his Rangers disciplinary outcome . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 8 hours ago, MikeyW said: I manage a junior team that’s not going to the EOS. There’s meeting happening to ensure the juniors join the pyramid . As far as I’m aware after speaking to a few other managers there going to follow the others. Especially the bigger clubs who would lose out on revenue of the other bigger clubs left and went to EOS. As far as we’re concerned there’s been no evidence to state there will be any benefits of moving. What are the benefits of staying? Next season, there are going to be more clubs in the EoS than in the East juniors. All clubs from Edinburgh, East Lothian and Midlothian have moved over already. Some from Fife, West Lothian etc. too. Half the remaining East juniors are going to be Dundee/Angus/Perthshire clubs now. A lot of travelling for some of the East juniors from West Lothian next season and the status of the East juniors has clearly been massively diminished by the exodus including some of the biggest juniors clubs e.g. Bo'ness, Bonnyrigg and Linlithgow (pending Monday's meeting). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 2, 2018 Share Posted June 2, 2018 Here's the latest list of teams likely to be in the EoSFL next season (lifted from P&B so ignore the geography) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 what's left LOTHIANS Arniston Rangers Craigroyston Edinburgh United Newtongrange Star Armadale Thistle Bathgate Thistle Fauldhouse United Harthill Royal Livingston United Pumpherston Juniors Stoneyburn Juniors West Calder United Whitburn Juniors FIFE Glenrothes Kennoway Star Hearts Kinnoull Kirkcaldy YM Lochgelly Albert Newburgh Oakley United Rosyth Tayport Thornton Hibs PERTH /DUNDEE/ ANGUS Arbroath Vics Blairgowrie Brechin Vics Broughty Athletic Carnoustie Panmure Coupar Angus Downfield Dundee North End Dundee Violet East Craigie Forfar Albion Forfar West End Kirriemuir Thistle Lochee Harp Lochee United Lochore Welfare Luncarty Scone Thistle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookieboy Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 54 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: what's left LOTHIANS Arniston Rangers Craigroyston Edinburgh United Newtongrange Star Armadale Thistle Bathgate Thistle Fauldhouse United Harthill Royal Livingston United Pumpherston Juniors Stoneyburn Juniors West Calder United Whitburn Juniors FIFE Glenrothes Kennoway Star Hearts Kinnoull Kirkcaldy YM Lochgelly Albert Newburgh Oakley United Rosyth Tayport Thornton Hibs PERTH /DUNDEE/ ANGUS Arbroath Vics Blairgowrie Brechin Vics Broughty Athletic Carnoustie Panmure Coupar Angus Downfield Dundee North End Dundee Violet East Craigie Forfar Albion Forfar West End Kirriemuir Thistle Lochee Harp Lochee United Lochore Welfare Luncarty Scone Thistle The first four are all gone are they not ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allowayjambo1874 Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 hour ago, cookieboy said: The first four are all gone are they not ? I thought Arniston were deferring and joining following season? Apologies in advance if incorrect Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 hours ago, cookieboy said: The first four are all gone are they not ? my bad, your correct. i never noticed them at the top of FF's list. Armadale Thistle Bathgate Thistle Fauldhouse United Harthill Royal Livingston United Pumpherston Juniors Stoneyburn Juniors West Calder United Whitburn Juniors West Lothian only, it is then :smile: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EIEIO Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 12 minutes ago, Tommy Brown said: my bad, your correct. i never noticed them at the top of FF's list. Armadale Thistle Bathgate Thistle Fauldhouse United Harthill Royal Livingston United Pumpherston Juniors Stoneyburn Juniors West Calder United Whitburn Juniors West Lothian only, it is then Harthill is in Lanarkshire. Surprised whitburn and Bathgate have still opted for the juniors , although they have both declined somewhat in recent years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy Brown Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 minute ago, EIEIO said: Harthill is in Lanarkshire. Surprised whitburn and Bathgate have still opted for the juniors , although they have both declined somewhat in recent years. surprised to see those two staying put, also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 9 minutes ago, EIEIO said: Harthill is in Lanarkshire. Surprised whitburn and Bathgate have still opted for the juniors , although they have both declined somewhat in recent years. Harthill is Lanarkshire but their ground is in West Lothian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 21 hours ago, Footballfirst said: Here's the latest list of teams likely to be in the EoSFL next season (lifted from P&B so ignore the geography) Vale of Leithen not listed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stanley_ Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 2 minutes ago, Sarah O said: Vale of Leithen not listed? Lowland League. Finished second bottom last season and would have been relegated if Cove had beaten Cowdenbeath in the playoffs but they lost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarah O Posted June 3, 2018 Share Posted June 3, 2018 1 minute ago, Stanley_ said: Lowland League. Finished second bottom last season and would have been relegated if Cove had beaten Cowdenbeath in the playoffs but they lost. AH, that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kirkierobroy Posted June 5, 2018 Share Posted June 5, 2018 If the Juniors collapse and there's one big pot, imagine the confusion if Vale of Leithen end up playing Vale of Leven... West/Central Juniors still big box office in relative terms. On the last full day of matches, Auchinleck could guarantee the title with a win. They blew a 2-0 lead to draw 2-2. At Cumnock. That would have been great television. The Western leg of the pyramid has to be the West/Central system itself. The West teams in the Lowland League won't welcome them, though. The fly in the ointment is the Junior Cup - hugely devalued without the likes of Linlithgow, Bonnyrigg, Kelty, Boness and others with a real heritage in it. Ideally it would become a global non-league Scottish Cup. As such, the SJFA could use that as a bargaining chip but I don't know that the guys at the top are bright enough to think of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsalldothebeattie Posted June 7, 2018 Share Posted June 7, 2018 (edited) Leagues have been decided tonight for the new look East Of Scotland. 3 conferences Conference A - Hawick Leith Peebles Coldstream Tweedmouth Penicuik Hill of Beath Newtongrange Musselburgh Dunbar Arniston Oakley Easthouses Conference B - Lothian THV Tynecastle Burntisland Eyemouth Bonnyrigg Dundonald Bo'ness Sauchie Haddington Tranent Dalkeith Crossgates Dunipace Conference C - Preston Heriot Watt Stirling Uni Ormiston Linlithgow Broxburn Camelon Jeanfield Blackburn St Andrews Edinburgh Utd Craigroyston Inverkeithing Edited June 7, 2018 by letsalldothebeattie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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