VAR

[DH1986]

Just now, Phil Dunphy said:

 

The only way this will work is giving the referee access to a screen in the stadium and let him make his own decision.

 

None of this asking someone a few hundred miles away for a decision.

 

The distance of the screen from the incident is completely irrelevant. The decision doesn’t become any easier or clearer if the screen is in sitting in a hut behind the dugout.

[Phil Dunphy]

1 minute ago, DH1986 said:

 

The distance of the screen from the incident is completely irrelevant. The decision doesn’t become any easier or clearer if the screen is in sitting in a hut behind the dugout.

 

Yeah, you've said that already.

[redjambo]

2 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

The only way this will work is giving the referee access to a screen in the stadium and let him make his own decision.

 

None of this asking someone a few hundred miles away for a decision.

 

That would take even more time.

 

The current method allows someone in a quiet room with multiple screens to control those screens and find the best view with which to make the decision. Can you imagine the referee having to do that at the side of the pitch in a noisy football stadium?

 

It really doesn't matter whether or not the VAR guy is a few hundred miles away or in the stadium itself, with the speed of images and information. However the way it is done at present allows the FA to have a specially-designed room and equipment which can be used for all games, no matter where they take place. It would be a logistical nightmare to install that set-up in all the grounds where VAR is used, certainly during this current trial.

[DH1986]

6 minutes ago, Phil Dunphy said:

 

Yeah, you've said that already.

 

I had hoped you’d grasped that it makes zero difference....but sadly no.

[Phil Dunphy]

10 minutes ago, DH1986 said:

 

I had hoped you’d grasped that it makes zero difference....but sadly no.

No, I just ignored you again

[Ricardo Quaresma]

1 hour ago, Fandango said:

Made my own attempt ..... no too bad tbh

 

Improper perspective correction, the vanishing point is well wrong

[Whitecapjambo]

The big issue I have with VAR is that it is not applied equally across the pitch. How many offsides are called near the half way line that are not allowed to develop into goal scoring chances. I would be in favour of a coaches challenge type system where the game is allowed to run more and coaches can call it back for review if needed. 

[colinmaroon]

It seems simple to me!  Review should be clear immediately and not kneecap stuff.

 

Don't know if it's been said but, borderline decisions like Man U today, the decision should remain with the onfield decision.  If he had obviously been offside on replay, but if it takes 7 minutes to get it clear that he was a kneecap off, then just as in cricket, where a review shows the ball was just catching the stumps in say an lbw, but the Umpire never gave it, it stays with the onfield Umpire's decision.

 

 

[Footballfirst]

1 hour ago, Whitecapjambo said:

The big issue I have with VAR is that it is not applied equally across the pitch. How many offsides are called near the half way line that are not allowed to develop into goal scoring chances. I would be in favour of a coaches challenge type system where the game is allowed to run more and coaches can call it back for review if needed. 

 

Your suggestion would only work one way, in favour of the defensive team, i.e. an offside decision is not given by the officials, play goes on, but can be corrected on review.

 

If a player is wrongly called offside, then the whistle will have gone and play stopped, thus preventing an attacking move developing. That opportunity can't be reinstated by review.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

I think the FIFA generation thinks that VAR should be instantaneous. By definition, in the real world, it cannot be. Unlike cricket, football has no natural breaks so a decision shouldn't be reviewed like that, IMO.

 

Goal line technology is fine although when its absence trolls vermin to the stone age, I am all for it not being introduced.

[Nookie Bear]

I have two issues with it.

 

Firstly it had to be used in every game, or not at all. One club benefits from the decision but their rivals for the title or relegation don’t have the advantage of the replay that would have helped them. 

 

Secondly, the decision has to be made quicker. If it isn’t clear after 30 seconds of replays then they need to go with the refs decision. The Salah penalty in the West Brom game was a clear pen but still took minutes to confirm. 

[BEDNAR BOY]

If VAR had been used at Dingwall today County would have won 2-1.Despite what the commentators said about the great call by the Assistant to chalk off the late goal.

if you look at it closely the defender on the ground at the far post is playing the attacker on side and Lafferty behind the goal line make two.

Incidently it's the same eagle eyed Assistant Referee that awarded the Motherwell goal at Tynecastle

[Guest Paul Allen]

Gabby Logan called it on MOTD last night - with VAR we are chasing perfection that is hampering the game. ?

[CMc]

They need to decide if they are going for Hawkeye style computer model, or simply another ref with access to replays. 

 

If it is computer modelling, the lines on the pictures are woefully inadequate. 

 

If they are just having a ref watching replays, they need to mike both refs and the main official needs to ask very precise questions - can you sees reason to overturn the decision? Did it go out of play? Was there contact?

 

If there is no definitive answer from the tv, the decision on field stands. 

 

The Mata one was to close to call with TV. Should have left it be. 

 

Video display at ground should show that it is being referred and what original decision was at minimum. Ref audio and replays visible to crowd would be ideal 

 

[Dunks]

VAR is a good opportunity to eradicate bad calls on the pitch. For now though, it's implementation needs tightened up to avoid bad calls off the pitch.

 

FWIW - my view is that the goal should have stood as Mata was in line. Should have been a penalty too for the handball.

 

[By the light]

1 hour ago, BEDNAR BOY said:

If VAR had been used at Dingwall today County would have won 2-1.Despite what the commentators said about the great call by the Assistant to chalk off the late goal.

if you look at it closely the defender on the ground at the far post is playing the attacker on side and Lafferty behind the goal line make two.

Incidently it's the same eagle eyed Assistant Referee that awarded the Motherwell goal at Tynecastle

 

Correct. They were showing where the forward was when the ball reached the line. Not when the ball was hit. Smith was playing him on when the ball was hit. 

[redjambo]

3 hours ago, Nookie Bear said:

I have two issues with it.

 

Firstly it had to be used in every game, or not at all. One club benefits from the decision but their rivals for the title or relegation don’t have the advantage of the replay that would have helped them.

 

Agreed. Which is one of the reasons why we won't have it up here for a very long time, if ever. We simply couldn't afford to implement it across the entire league. The EPL, however, can.

[Kirky Jambo]

I don’t like it personally. Don’t really understand the whole “everyone wants the truth” mentality that Mourinho was going on about. Controversy is part of the game. Plus referees should have to earn their (significant) wages!

[deesidejambo]

Its shite.

 

  Wait till they get a goal scored from a corner - there will be multiple players pushing, pulling, and holding shirts even before the corner is taken.   That happens at every corner in every game because the gutless useless referees are too gutless to address it.

 

Ultimately every goal scored from a corner will end up with VAR as the Refs will learn to refer every one to absolve them from making the call themselves.

 

Also linesmen will learn not to flag for offsides because the VAR will be able to determine it in event of a goal.

[Bull's-eye]

I'm with Footballfirst on this.

 

If you can't identify exactly when the ball leaves the wingers foot then there's not a chance of determining what position the players are in from the very start of the issue.

That offside goal last night was also given because of the rules already in place, the attacker gets the benefit of doubt. Also, I thought the referee was supposed to wander over to a screen and review the decision himself.

 

It's never gonna work thankfully. Bin it.

[deesidejambo]

30 minutes ago, Oliver Twist said:

I'm with Footballfirst on this.

 

If you can't identify exactly when the ball leaves the wingers foot then there's not a chance of determining what position the players are in from the very start of the issue.

That offside goal last night was also given because of the rules already in place, the attacker gets the benefit of doubt. Also, I thought the referee was supposed to wander over to a screen and review the decision himself.

 

It's never gonna work thankfully. Bin it.

The goal was chalked-off.  So the attacker wasn't given the benefit, which he should have been.

[Bull's-eye]

8 minutes ago, deesidejambo said:

The goal was chalked-off.  So the attacker wasn't given the benefit, which he should have been.

 

It was given initially by the referee/linesman.

 

It's the VAR that removes that rule by getting involved.

 

That's what I meant to say.

[deesidejambo]

1 hour ago, Oliver Twist said:

 

It was given initially by the referee/linesman.

 

It's the VAR that removes that rule by getting involved.

 

That's what I meant to say.

OK I get it now.

 

Cant wait for VAR to deal with a corner though.   It will show up the referees gutlessness.

[Taffin]

6 hours ago, BEDNAR BOY said:

If VAR had been used at Dingwall today County would have won 2-1.Despite what the commentators said about the great call by the Assistant to chalk off the late goal.

if you look at it closely the defender on the ground at the far post is playing the attacker on side and Lafferty behind the goal line make two.

Incidently it's the same eagle eyed Assistant Referee that awarded the Motherwell goal at Tynecastle

 

 

I make that one, no? 

 

My memory of it is hazy from yesterday and haven't seen it again but I thought the striker was ahead of McLaughlin with only Smith on the ground between him and the goal?

[Shanks]

Its something that won't be used in Scottish football so I'm not too fussed.  Seems pish just now though.

[Footballfirst]

Hawkeye apologises for the wobbly lines

 

[BEDNAR BOY]

1 hour ago, Taffin said:

 

 

I make that one, no? 

 

My memory of it is hazy from yesterday and haven't seen it again but I thought the striker was ahead of McLaughlin with only Smith on the ground between him and the goal?

He was ahead of McLaughlin but Smith and Lafferty played him onside.

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, BEDNAR BOY said:

He was ahead of McLaughlin but Smith and Lafferty played him onside.

 

If Lafferty was behind the goal-line as somebody said earlier is he active? For example if a player had gone over the bye line and stayed off the pitch they would not be active so does the same rule apply if a player is behind the line in the goals?

 

I don't know the answer just wondered if someone knows the rule on this.

[kila]

29 minutes ago, Footballfirst said:

Hawkeye apologises for the wobbly lines

 

 

Sounds like bullshit  Can't believe their system is that either complicated or shite that lines can appear like that. It's like someone is drawing them in MS Paint rather than them being dynamically applied by CGI and always accurate because of maths.

 

Wouldn't get wobbly lines on the challenge screen at Wimbledon though.

[milky_26]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

If Lafferty was behind the goal-line as somebody said earlier is he active? For example if a player had gone over the bye line and stayed off the pitch they would not be active so does the same rule apply if a player is behind the line in the goals?

 

I don't know the answer just wondered if someone knows the rule on this.

i'm sure they are still active in that situation, or at least they used to be

[wavydavy]

5 minutes ago, milky_26 said:

i'm sure they are still active in that situation, or at least they used to be

 

It is a bit complicated now. I saw that the rules say you can't be offsdie directly from a goalkick, throw in or corner.

 

I knew about the throw in but I am sure I have seen players given offside when receiving the ball directly from a goal-kick.

[Footballfirst]

1 minute ago, wavydavy said:

 

It is a bit complicated now. I saw that the rules say you can't be offsdie directly from a goalkick, throw in or corner.

 

I knew about the throw in but I am sure I have seen players given offside when receiving the ball directly from a goal-kick.

 

There was an offside from a goal kick wrongly given by the assistant ref at the "battle of Bonnyrigg" yesterday. The ref had a word and restarted the game with a dropped ball.

[Taffin]

15 minutes ago, wavydavy said:

 

If Lafferty was behind the goal-line as somebody said earlier is he active? For example if a player had gone over the bye line and stayed off the pitch they would not be active so does the same rule apply if a player is behind the line in the goals?

 

I don't know the answer just wondered if someone knows the rule on this.

 

My understanding of it is that he wouldn't be active in the same way as if he was behind the goal line but to the left or right of the goal but I don't know that for certain.

[wavydavy]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

My understanding of it is that he wouldn't be active in the same way as if he was behind the goal line but to the left or right of the goal but I don't know that for certain.

 

It's one of those things that's hard to find in the rules. I have had a look online and can't see anything that makes it clear.

 

Maybe I will email Willie Collum and say what he says. 

[Footballfirst]

2 minutes ago, Taffin said:

 

My understanding of it is that he wouldn't be active in the same way as if he was behind the goal line but to the left or right of the goal but I don't know that for certain.

If a defender slides off the pitch behind the goal line, through his own momentum, then he is still deemed to be "active" and standing on the goal line for offside purposes.  It an attacking player does the same, then he is deemed not to be "active". 

[kila]

.

[Footballfirst]

From the "Laws of the Game"

 

"Any defending player leaving the field of play for any reason without the referee’s permission shall be considered to be on his own goal line or touch line for the purposes of offside until the next stoppage in play. If the player leaves the field of play deliberately, he must be cautioned when the ball is next out of play."

[Taffin]

1 hour ago, Footballfirst said:

From the "Laws of the Game"

 

"Any defending player leaving the field of play for any reason without the referee’s permission shall be considered to be on his own goal line or touch line for the purposes of offside until the next stoppage in play. If the player leaves the field of play deliberately, he must be cautioned when the ball is next out of play."

 

Cheers for clearing that up. I think i was basing it on a player (maybe a Chelsea one?) intentionally stepping of the field of play to play someone offside. Can't remember the outcome to be fair ?

[mintmyster]

I was at the Cologne v Hannover game yesterday. Cologne scored their second goal in the 3rd minute of extra time to seemingly win 2-1. The crowd were going crazy then VAR was used and identified the goal was offside. Was a really strange atmosphere after thinking they’d won the game. There was something on Twitter last night that said Cologne had ‘lost’ eight points to VAR decisions this season. They’re 9 points adrift at the bottom of the league!

[CJGJ]

Another 2 VAR incidents in tonights Milan game..a hand ball which should have been given as a penalty and a goal disallowed for offside after originally being given

[BEDNAR BOY]

4 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

If Lafferty was behind the goal-line as somebody said earlier is he active? For example if a player had gone over the bye line and stayed off the pitch they would not be active so does the same rule apply if a player is behind the line in the goals?

 

I don't know the answer just wondered if someone knows the rule on this.

Yep still active behind the goal line.

[BEDNAR BOY]

4 hours ago, wavydavy said:

 

It is a bit complicated now. I saw that the rules say you can't be offsdie directly from a goalkick, throw in or corner.

 

I knew about the throw in but I am sure I have seen players given offside when receiving the ball directly from a goal-kick.

You may have seen it but it would be wrong! 100% cannot be offside from a goal kick.

[The White Cockade]

yeah always been the rule that you can't be offside from a goal kick