jake Posted November 27, 2017 Share Posted November 27, 2017 ITN news using them as a source. I thought it was beyond doubt that this organisation was a source for at least fake news. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 hours ago, jake said: ITN news using them as a source. I thought it was beyond doubt that this organisation was a source for at least fake news. No, it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that this organisation is a target of fake news sponsored by the Assad regime and the Russian government-sponsored media, along with an array of hypernationalist right-wing conspiracy theorists (think Alex Jones and people like that). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Here's a classically liberal take on the White Helmets, from a Huffington Post piece about a number of misinformation issues from the Syrian conflict. https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/syria-myths-debunked_us_585be4dce4b0d9a594574000 This piece explains that the organisation is a target for vitriol and misinformation from media outlets sympathetic to the Assad regime and to Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 This piece (which in my view is also from a liberal-leaning source) sets out a lot of detail about what the White Helmets actually do, and how the Syrian and Russian misinformation campaign is designed to work. http://theconversation.com/who-are-syrias-white-helmets-and-why-are-they-so-controversial-66580 One thing this article taught me was that the late Jo Cox, MP, nominated the White Helmets for the Nobel Peace Prize. Yep, that's the same Jo Cox, MP, who was murdered by a racist with links to neo-Nazi groups. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/15/late-jo-coxs-white-helmets-nobel-plea-heard/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 One noteworthy negative piece of misinformation about the White Helmets was propagated by Eva Bartlett, pro-Assad blogger and occasionally engaged by Russia Today, when she claimed that the organisation deliberately posted multiple videos of the same child in different rescue scenarios. One of the things that made the claim particularly outrageous was that (1) the children were in fact all different, and (2) the videos featuring the children weren't released by the White Helmets, but by other people. Shortly after she posted the remarks, this Channel 4 piece analysed them. They have also been debunked by several other outlets. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-eva-bartletts-claims-about-syrian-children Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjcc Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Not read the thread, but probably caused a lack of blood flow mate. Best get it checked out asap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 28, 2017 Author Share Posted November 28, 2017 Appreciate the replies. Will read through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Thought this was another thread about the FLA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fitzroy Pointon Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 2 minutes ago, Craig_ said: Thought this was another thread about the FLA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff the Mince Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Russia Today doesn't attemp to hide thier lies , How any sane person can believe their propaganda is beyond me . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Findlay Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 The old mantra springs to mind. Don't believe all you read and, only believe half of what you see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Craig_ said: Thought this was another thread about the FLA... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Geoff the Mince said: Russia Today doesn't attemp to hide thier lies , How any sane person can believe their propaganda is beyond me . During the incident at Oxford Circus the other day, RT were saying how convenient it all was that this happened on the same day as the terrorist attack on a mosque in Egypt and guess what will make the headline news now. It was clear what they were insinuating and they were also trying hard as feck to feed the conspiracy nutters by also saying that there had to something going on as there were too many police with guns, and how they couldn't verify that nobody was injured as the police wouldn't let them get close enough and of how you'd have to just trust the police's say so. All presented with an air of suspicion and alluding that there was more to it than meets the eye, but this was all just music to some people's ears as it's what they want to believe. As someone has already said don't believe everything you read or see, as someone will try and manipulate that to whatever agenda they want to promote. Edited November 28, 2017 by Jambo-Jimbo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 3 hours ago, Geoff the Mince said: Russia Today doesn't attemp to hide thier lies , How any sane person can believe their propaganda is beyond me . Geoff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Initially I thought the thread was about these dudes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 01:19, Ulysses said: One noteworthy negative piece of misinformation about the White Helmets was propagated by Eva Bartlett, pro-Assad blogger and occasionally engaged by Russia Today, when she claimed that the organisation deliberately posted multiple videos of the same child in different rescue scenarios. One of the things that made the claim particularly outrageous was that (1) the children were in fact all different, and (2) the videos featuring the children weren't released by the White Helmets, but by other people. Shortly after she posted the remarks, this Channel 4 piece analysed them. They have also been debunked by several other outlets. https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-eva-bartletts-claims-about-syrian-children Sorry I have not replied. Ok I'm going to show links which prove many of the white helmets reports have indeed been propaganda. You may wish to look at the admitted CNN reports on this. Also independent UN reports. Now I accept that RT is biased. (Sorry I should have stressed this next point is general ) But to cite liberal outlets as some sort of bona fide truth tellers . It's just not on. I shall post links but I'm wondering if you believe the liberal sources? There is no proof for instance that Assad has used chemical weapons. The constant reporting from"liberal sources " would lead us all to believe he was. The videos of white helmets entering chemical attack zones shortly after are not possible. The fleeing of civilians to Assad controlled areas from foreign invasion would suggest exactly what it suggests. The known hierarchy of control of ISIS would suggest the greater political game. It just doesn't wash this liberal news narrative. Links available buddy I've posted them on another thread. I'd appreciate if you treated me with respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 One other thing that's worth pointing out. Whose aggression is this? Whose doorstep? Can you imagine a reverse in geography? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 09:18, Geoff the Mince said: Russia Today doesn't attemp to hide thier lies , How any sane person can believe their propaganda is beyond me . Geoff. Did you not point me in the direction of false flags involving Russia and Chechnya? Do you believe that to be any different from our own media and powerbrokers? I thought you got it ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 00:50, Ulysses said: No, it has been established beyond reasonable doubt that this organisation is a target of fake news sponsored by the Assad regime and the Russian government-sponsored media, along with an array of hypernationalist right-wing conspiracy theorists (think Alex Jones and people like that). It's also been called out by many who are neither. And you know it's become a lazy and easy cop out from a new brand of xenophobic politic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 29, 2017 Author Share Posted November 29, 2017 Haha. I feel like an old style Soviet agitator. Where's that CIA guy Uly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 1 hour ago, jake said: It's also been called out by many who are neither. Who? Don't make unreadable references to other threads. Name and link. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, jake said: One other thing that's worth pointing out. Whose aggression is this? Whose doorstep? Can you imagine a reverse in geography? Isn't there another thread about this? Stay on topic. Edited November 30, 2017 by Ulysses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muldoon74 Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 13:02, Boris said: Initially I thought the thread was about these dudes... LOL me too, always wanted to be in them.. One of the reasons I joined the Royal Signals.. I left for other reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 On 28/11/2017 at 06:53, Craig_ said: Thought this was another thread about the FLA... Missed that. Good one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 18 hours ago, Ulysses said: Who? Don't make unreadable references to other threads. Name and link. Sorry. Was again posting while drinking. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/talkradio.co.uk/news/baby-snuff-films-created-syrias-white-helmets-denounced-doctors-17032411795%3famp http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/24/middleeast/mannequin-challenge-white-helmets-syria/index.html https://www.investigaction.net/en/swedish-doctors-for-human-rights-white-helmets-video-macabre-manipulation-of-dead-children-and-staged-chemical-weapons-attack-to-justify-a-no-fly-zone-in-syria/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 18 hours ago, Ulysses said: Isn't there another thread about this? Stay on topic. Fair point. But it's pertinent to say that no proof of Assad being responsible for chemical attacks. Also I hadn't realised your post about Eva Bartlett. Are we now saying that anyone who does any work freelance or otherwise for RT is not to be believed. This is my wider point . Who or what media outet do we believe? There is a lot of stuff about the white helmets that I could have posted. But I know you would not have respected some of the sources. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted November 30, 2017 Author Share Posted November 30, 2017 It's also interesting that much of the conflicting narrative about the white helmets comes from journalists actually on the ground. What seems to then happen is they are then dismissed as having done freelance work for RT. Also many of western media's debunks seem to stem from Snopes a kind of go to for fact checking. Interestingly look deeper into Snopes and you find a very obvious political bias. I suppose we all do this (have political bias)Ulysses and I know you have asked me to stay on topic. But all the things I spoke of (the post relating to the conflict as a whole)paints the picture relating to the white helmets. I've reread this and hope it makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
...a bit disco Posted November 30, 2017 Share Posted November 30, 2017 8 hours ago, muldoon74 said: LOL me too, always wanted to be in them.. One of the reasons I joined the Royal Signals.. I left for other reasons. I take it the initiation went a bit wrong for you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted December 1, 2017 Share Posted December 1, 2017 7 hours ago, jake said: Sorry. Was again posting while drinking. https://www.google.co.uk/amp/talkradio.co.uk/news/baby-snuff-films-created-syrias-white-helmets-denounced-doctors-17032411795%3famp http://www.cnn.com/2016/11/24/middleeast/mannequin-challenge-white-helmets-syria/index.html https://www.investigaction.net/en/swedish-doctors-for-human-rights-white-helmets-video-macabre-manipulation-of-dead-children-and-staged-chemical-weapons-attack-to-justify-a-no-fly-zone-in-syria/ You could try not posting when drinking. TalkRadio made the mistake of quoting an unreliable source - of course, some would describe TalkRadio as an unreliable source itself. The material in the article came from a known right-wing conspiracy theory website called 21st century wire. The additional comments came from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and from a Swedish body that is regarded as a Russian-sponsored propaganda agency. That body claims to be for doctors, but is not known to the Swedish Medical Association. It also claims to be a human rights campaigning group, but it is not known to Amnesty International. The CNN article refers to a "mannequin challenge" that some White Helmet members carried out in a misguided effort to publicise the organisation. Mannequin challenges were a viral internet thing at the time. The stunt was quite crass, but the individuals did it on their own initiatives and the organisation owned up and apologised. However much a biased observer would like that to be an example of "fake news", it isn't. The third link is the same story as the first link, but taken directly from a conspiracy theory website. There are hundreds of links to the same story, but all those I've been able to find were carried by conspiracy theory sites. In other words, we're back where we started. We already know that it is claimed that the White Helmets do fake news. So what? The claims are being made by the Syrian government and backed by the Russians, and they are biased sources. So, any chance of some unbiased and credible sources? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 4 hours ago, Ulysses said: You could try not posting when drinking. TalkRadio made the mistake of quoting an unreliable source - of course, some would describe TalkRadio as an unreliable source itself. The material in the article came from a known right-wing conspiracy theory website called 21st century wire. The additional comments came from the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, and from a Swedish body that is regarded as a Russian-sponsored propaganda agency. That body claims to be for doctors, but is not known to the Swedish Medical Association. It also claims to be a human rights campaigning group, but it is not known to Amnesty International. The CNN article refers to a "mannequin challenge" that some White Helmet members carried out in a misguided effort to publicise the organisation. Mannequin challenges were a viral internet thing at the time. The stunt was quite crass, but the individuals did it on their own initiatives and the organisation owned up and apologised. However much a biased observer would like that to be an example of "fake news", it isn't. The third link is the same story as the first link, but taken directly from a conspiracy theory website. There are hundreds of links to the same story, but all those I've been able to find were carried by conspiracy theory sites. In other words, we're back where we started. We already know that it is claimed that the White Helmets do fake news. So what? The claims are being made by the Syrian government and backed by the Russians, and they are biased sources. So, any chance of some unbiased and credible sources? To answer your last question . No. Yes it does bring it back to the start. But....haha . I bring you back to my last post before this. I could argue the same points as you do. As many of the reports from western sources have bias and indeed not first hand. I have after it was pointed out tried harder to check sources. I was going to post studies on the background to some white helmets. But these studies are again compromised. So I guess we would just go round in circles. I not trusting western fact checkers you not trusting my independent at first glance mine. Anyway it's the weekend so now doubt I shall post some drink fuelled stuff for you to rip. Haha . Just to reiterate a point though. The whole Syrian conflict is I've found one that's been badly reported. Anyway better get out this tea hut. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted December 1, 2017 Author Share Posted December 1, 2017 Oh btw I've tried but for some reason having a drink and posting seem at the time a good match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 On 12/1/2017 at 03:09, Ulysses said: So, any chance of some unbiased and credible sources? On 12/1/2017 at 07:55, jake said: To answer your last question . No. Ah well. At least you've answered the question you posed to open the thread. The White Helmets aren't regarded as a source of fake news. A good way to finish the discussion, methinks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted December 3, 2017 Author Share Posted December 3, 2017 12 minutes ago, Ulysses said: Ah well. At least you've answered the question you posed to open the thread. The White Helmets aren't regarded as a source of fake news. A good way to finish the discussion, methinks. I was hoping you would have forgotten and let me leave quietly. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greedy_Jambo Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 (edited) I've noticed that the Huffington Post has been used as a source by the BBC lately. There was me thinking it was just a junk website you got sent to via Aol. Edited December 3, 2017 by Greedy_Jambo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mac_fae_Gillie Posted December 3, 2017 Share Posted December 3, 2017 Darn it I was hoping to see Royal Signal bikes crashing.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Interesting take on how events are reported from Syria by western outlets. Of course it's only RT and their narrative that's fake. https://www.lrb.co.uk/v39/n03/patrick-cockburn/who-supplies-the-news Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Funny if it wasn't so serious. Every report alternative is demeaned . Think I shall keep reading our press and turning most of it on its head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 On 28/11/2017 at 13:02, Boris said: Initially I thought the thread was about these dudes... These guys were great been at the IOM TT doing a show the last few years Shame that they have been binned Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: These guys were great been at the IOM TT doing a show the last few years Shame that they have been binned I have a vague memory of seeing them as a kid at the Royal Highland Show in the late seventies. Could be wrong though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 8 minutes ago, Boris said: I have a vague memory of seeing them as a kid at the Royal Highland Show in the late seventies. Could be wrong though. pretty sure they did Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 1 hour ago, Boris said: I have a vague memory of seeing them as a kid at the Royal Highland Show in the late seventies. Could be wrong though. 55 minutes ago, The White Cockade said: pretty sure they did It's a pity the Russians are trying to stop them doing their Syrian tour. Ah, MSM, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Really top quality patter . Interesting how questioning 9/11 is met with how can you be disrespectful to the victims. Or other topics met with off topic. Yet the misreporting of the war in Syria is met with shitey patter. Not clever. And a bit idiotic dressed up as the opposite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Anyway. For me Syria holds up the farce that is western media reporting. And that it is as corrupt as RT. But any alternate journalism is found to have fault. Yet even in the face of the obvious people still believe our press . Despite countless examples of lies. Oh so clever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 2 minutes ago, jake said: Yet the misreporting of the war in Syria is met with shitey patter. This isn't about misreporting of the war in Syria. It's a thread that you started with your snide attempt to attack an organisation that is often the only first response service that Syrian people have. You've been told more than once that your nasty smear is unjustified, but you keep coming back to repeat it. The only people who gain from the undermining of that organisation are Assad's regime and his Russian backers. If you can't prove your sordid little claim you should stop repeating it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 The link I provided is clear enough as to why reports coming from Syria via western news outlets are unreliable. That includes white helmets. Your response is as expected full of mock outrage . Try reading the link. Nothing that has been reported from the areas that the white helmets operate in goes by the editorials of organisations such as IS. Generally speaking the Syrian conflict including the white helmet aspect is propaganda and according to anyone with the slightest integrity is regarded as one of the worst reported wars since ww1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 But hey let's all be clever and believe outlets owned by the same type of people who gave us Hillsborough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Hollywood made a movie. Must be true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulysses Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, jake said: The link I provided is clear enough as to why reports coming from Syria via western news outlets are unreliable. The only people who try to undermine the White Helmets are Assad's regime, their Russian backers and media outlets, and their supporters outside Syria. When they attack civilians in Syria, they don't want there to be a first response present, and the White Helmets are often the only first response service present. If you wish to continue to support Assad's regime and its Russian backers in their efforts to shut down a first response service, then that's a matter for you. There's no outrage, mock or otherwise. You keep quoting those who support Assad because you can't find any independent backing for your sordid, nasty and unfounded claims. It's that simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Is Patrick Cockburn an agent for Russia now? Is the militias fighting Assad backed by Israeli and Saudi money? Neither side is clean. But to believe lock and stock what is reported to us is naive at best. And throwing insults of sordid and nasty is stupid at best . So Patrick Cockburn let's hear the dirt? Laughable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jake Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 And the only people to question the white helmets are not Assad supporters that is a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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