How important is a 'knowledge of British/Scottish' football?

[Craigieboy]

I know that this was what was mentioned in the Jan 1st statement.

 

I would be inclined to feel that Weiss will have a Scottish assistant if he takes the job. I may be wrong.

 

But with all the wrist slashers going on about Hearts not fulfilling there own criteria, it leads me to ask the question; how important is 'a knowledge of British/Scottish football'?

 

Is it the case that Weiss is a very risky option due to his lack of the above? Or is it mainly the guys record in management & his work ethic that is most important? Is this guy doomed to failure due to his lack of experience in Britain?

 

Just wanting to gauge the concensus. Undecided on it myself.

 

.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Even Hearts themselves implied it's importance by saying that someone with British Experience was preferrable.

 

To me, it's pretty much vital, and there'll be a fair bit of making mistakes and learning from them before we really know if he's a good manager or not. The fear is that he doesn't even make it through this spell, through no real fault of his own.

 

That makes this appointment a risk IMO, as I don't think we're really in a position to be getting it wrong again this summer re players in/out.

 

If we had an established core of players and coaches who were doing the business, it would be a lot easier for him to come in and hit the ground running. But clearly, we don't have anything like that at HMFC.

[Dazo]

IMO it all depends on the calibre of man doing the job. Some managers are better equipped to deal with managing in different countries. At a guess i think most foreign managers(non OF) in the SPL have been a complete failure. This is down to not being able to attract a high enough quality manager who can deal with this change. So if your not attracting top drawer managers you have to get people who understand the British/Scottish game.

[Therapist]

In the very very short term it might be important, but not beyond that. It's not as if we are subject to different rules, play with a differently shaped ball, or kick the ball in a unique way.

 

Anyone who thinks British/Scottish knowledge is a must have, is implying the presence of some unique features in our game that simply aren't there.

[Ryan Gosling]

Apparently it's the be-all and end-all. If you haven't worked at Kilmarnock for 6 years, you are a puppet who should die.

 

FACT.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

I think it could be a handicap for Weiss (if he is the new manager). People will use his lack of British experience as a stick to beat him with if he doesn't get off to a good start.

 

However I think that our friends on the continent tend to have a better understanding of the technicalities of the game. I would therefore expect a much better shape and balance to the team. I would also expect Weiss to make more tactical changes during the game to counter what the opposition are doing. Whether or not he picks the players we would want in the team and gets the best out of the likes of Kingston and Pinilla will just remain to be seen. Weiss could be good news for our younger players on the fringe of the first team, they seem to be more open to giving younger players a chance on the continent. So maybe he can get off to a good start and we can then all fasten the seatbelts again.

[jamboBG]

I know that this was what was mentioned in the Jan 1st statement.

 

I would be inclined to feel that Weiss will have a Scottish assistant if he takes the job. I may be wrong.

 

But with all the wrist slashers going on about Hearts not fulfilling there own criteria, it leads me to ask the question; how important is 'a knowledge of British/Scottish football'?

 

Is it the case that Weiss is a very risky option due to his lack of the above? Or is it mainly the guys record in management & his work ethic that is most important? Is this guy doomed to failure due to his lack of experience in Britain?

 

Just wanting to gauge the concensus. Undecided on it myself.

 

.

 

 

Steven Banks

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Steven Banks

 

No experience other than a bit of goalkeeping coaching at HMFC.

[Dirk Diggler]

For Hearts It's more important now than it was 3 years ago.

 

IMO.

[Captain Canada]

Given the standard of so-called football played most weeks in the SPL and the fact that you can read most teams like a book as they barely alter their formations, IMO it's a good thing he has no prior experience of Scottish football at least. You only need to look at Jimmy Calderwood to see how a rotten manager can do reasonably well in this league. If Weiss has anything about him at all then he'll be a beath of fresh air to the SPL and we should canter to 3rd place.

[Cisc0 K1d]

I don't think that it is very important, the most important thing is the quality of the manager, I guess we would be able to judge that better if he had managed here. But I don't think Chelsea fans will be worring that Scolari has no English experience, Mourinho and Wenger didn't do bad jobs despite no experience in England and Wim Jansen won the title here so it's not essential.

 

Love it or hate it we are part of a pyramid system and we are going to see a lot of players from Eastern Europe, I think it's important that we have a manager who will make that work and make sure we get more Velicka's and fewer Kurkis's, so maybe that sort of thing is much more important than experience of the Scottish game.

[scott herbertson]

Even Hearts themselves implied it's importance by saying that someone with British Experience was preferrable.

 

To me, it's pretty much vital, and there'll be a fair bit of making mistakes and learning from them before we really know if he's a good manager or not. The fear is that he doesn't even make it through this spell, through no real fault of his own.

 

That makes this appointment a risk IMO, as I don't think we're really in a position to be getting it wrong again this summer re players in/out.

 

If we had an established core of players and coaches who were doing the business, it would be a lot easier for him to come in and hit the ground running. But clearly, we don't have anything like that at HMFC.

 

I agree with you.

 

If we still had, say Pressley and Foulkes or Anderton around, and they were communicating with the player sad the media/ fans it would create a buffer zone around the new man if he was not British.

 

I am not quite so concerned re the lack of managerial experience in the UK, though I hope he takes time to understand how physical the game can be here and the impact that has on the practicality of playing styles (very little time on the ball )

 

I would hope if weiss is appointed some serious consideration is given to the appoitment of someone either as team captain ( A Presley type fiigure) or Director of football (a Bobby robson/ walter smith type figure) or assistant manager ( McCoist or Pressley or Butcher figure) who can sit beside Weiss when dealing with the media and who can give re-assurance to the 'wobblier' or more cynical fans (no names, no pack drill) who we seem to have in abundance.

[Charlie-Brown]

It seems to be accepted wisdom that very few foreign managers have been successful in the SPL and to an extent this is true, however it is also true that very few of them have been catastrophic either - with Hibs legend Franck Sauzee perhaps having the long sustained bad run of results or maybe Ebbe Skovdahl.......

 

Most have been mediocre and failed to set the heather alight probably to the same extent as most Scottish / British SPL managers have been also.

 

Alan Preston, Richard Gough, Paul Lambert, Stephen Kenny, Maurice Malpas, Jimmy Calderwood, Sandy Clark & others all had very disappointing first seasons in the SPL & several were sacked despite having a very strong background in UK football...others like John Barnes & Paul Le Guen were considered relative failures because they were managing Old Firm teams but in reality they were still putting out teams in the upper half of the table, same with Bonetti & Ivanauskas who whilst not being spectacular still managed to get to grips okay with the SPL.

[bighusref]

I think it is very important in our current predicament for two particular reasons.

 

1) Our current squad ability. His lack of knowledge of the competition would not be as important if our squad was relatively well equiped to tackle our opponents. Right now, we need someone that can rebuild our squad and bring in players suited to Scottish football to augment our dilapidated team.

 

2) He will have to hit the ground running. His first game is also the first game of our season. He will have to gain experience at the start of a cruicial season for the club and for his chances of staying long-ish term. Had he came in around February, he would have had the tail end of last season, a dead season to find his feet.

[Charlie-Brown]

If Weiss (or whoever) is given a 2 or 3 year contract then I think unless results are catastrophic and leading towards relagation whith little prospect of turning it around....barring that scenario I think whoever is appointed should be given time to turn things around....I don't like this idea that should Weiss / Manager lose to Motherwell & Rangers then he will be under pressure....that is just insanity & further instability.....we fans really need to support the manager & his team this season.

[Dazo]

Yeah, I agree. In the past we had experienced players who knew what it took to cut in the SPL.

 

Now we have a bunch of players who seem to have no clue what it takes to cut it in the SPL. Who will be lead by a manager who has next to no knowledge of the SPL.

 

There is the potential for a lot of mistakes to be made, particulary early on.

 

If Weiss does get the job, IMO we need to add some experienced guys who knows what it takes to cut it in the SPL on the playing side. Though can't think of many, with the possible exception of Russel Anderson, who would fit that bill.

 

 

Agree LBJ also I know money talks and all that but will Weiss be able to attract the type of players you mention to the club ? If Weiss gets the job I think the assistant managers appoint will be vital.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

It seems to be accepted wisdom that very few foreign managers have been successful in the SPL and to an extent this is true, however it is also true that very few of them have been catastrophic either - with Hibs legend Franck Sauzee perhaps having the long sustained bad run of results or maybe Ebbe Skovdahl.......

 

Most have been mediocre and failed to set the heather alight probably to the same extent as most Scottish / British SPL managers have been also.

 

Alan Preston, Richard Gough, Paul Lambert, Stephen Kenny, Maurice Malpas, Jimmy Calderwood, Sandy Clark & others all had very disappointing first seasons in the SPL & several were sacked despite having a very strong background in UK football...others like John Barnes & Paul Le Guen were considered relative failures because they were managing Old Firm teams but in reality they were still putting out teams in the upper half of the table, same with Bonetti & Ivanauskas who whilst not being spectacular still managed to get to grips okay with the SPL.

 

Most of those you mention have been inexperienced in football management,

Venglos & Jansen did OK but they were experienced football managers.

 

It's probably more to do with the Manager their ability and experience than where they are from. There is nothing special about the SPL that someone with a knowledge of football couldn't get to grips with.

 

A knowledge of the other teams is good but it can be learned pretty quickly IMO

[By The Light..]

wrt the british/scottish managerial experience, if our owner was interested in competing in the SPL we would be competing to sign players from under the noses of the OF.

 

Instead we give them away or sell them on to the OF.

 

Actions speak louder than words, and to me VRs actions are shouting to anyone who cares that he is not that interested, deal with it.

[Cisc0 K1d]

Given that we lost out on McGhee and Levein is unlikely to come, I don't think we can just say bring in an experienced British manager without giving realistic obtainable examples. Other than Jim Jeffries I can't really think of a Scottish one, our best chance of a British manager would be a gamble and we might strike it lucky with a Mowbray or Levein but we are just as likely to get a disaster like Frail although admitedly under difficult circumstances, the same circumstances facing the new man.

[jkato]

Surely the ?350k carrot and the lure of a transfer budget should attract someone with a bit of credibility and understanding of the British game.

 

The fact that we're employing a Russian speaker speaks volumes. To me, that smells of Vlad's on-going tinkering in team affairs.

[south morocco]

Agree LBJ also I know money talks and all that but will Weiss be able to attract the type of players you mention to the club ? If Weiss gets the job I think the assistant managers appoint will be vital.

 

Who do you think he'll bring in as an assistant? ,somebody Scottish/British or someone he knows from Slovakia,Frail could get the nod there,it wouldn't surprise me.The language barrier could be a problem though.

[Dirk Diggler]

Surely the ?350k carrot and the lure of a transfer budget should attract someone with a bit of credibility and understanding of the British game.

 

The fact that we're employing a Russian speaker speaks volumes. To me, that smells of Vlad's on-going tinkering in team affairs.

 

I know what I smell.

[Guest jambomickey]

time will tell but at least give him a chance if he appointed

[jkato]

I know what I smell.

 

As it states in under your avatar....go troll someone else.

 

I've ignored your previous jibes and will ignore your future ones.

 

If you don't like my viewpoint, then tough.

[Dirk Diggler]

As it states in under your avatar....go troll someone else.

 

I've ignored your previous jibes and will ignore your future ones.

 

If you don't like my viewpoint, then tough.

 

 

[kjc2006]

Who do you think he'll bring in as an assistant? ,somebody Scottish/British or someone he knows from Slovakia,Frail could get the nod there,it wouldn't surprise me.The language barrier could be a problem though.

 

Lubo Moravic maybe? There was an interview with him today in the sun where he was saying that they both played together when they were younger.

[JamboSean]

What's Robbo doing these days? Think he could be tempted to become a new assistant manager? He's hardly set the world alight on his own.

[mda]

I think experience of Scottish/British football can be a help to someone who's about to take over a Scottish team. Particularly one in the top flight of the SPL and on a very limited budget.

[bistokid]

Knowledge of British Football comes a distant 2nd to being able to speak English in importance. Its imperitive that the new manager can get his ideas across and gain some handle on the dressing room as soon s possible. Thats my only concern with going abroad for the appointment.

[Therapist]

Lubo Moravic maybe?

 

If he wants to get the fans backing him, there's no chance Lhubo will be appointed. :mad: :mad:

[scott herbertson]

If he wants to get the fans backing him, there's no chance Lhubo will be appointed. :mad: :mad:

 

Why not?

[crazy_jambo_2006]

I would say it's very important. Especially as we were promised it. Scotland have produced legendary managers. The regime is a disgrace. Vlad is a liar. Rodney is a pathetic excuse for a chairman. And yet we can do nothing. Football is the only business the regime could get away with their nonsense, as fans are devoted +can't stop going etc. Vlad has eroded the passion I had for hmfc. I cannot accept Vlad's antics. The only power I have is to withhold my cash. He's loaded though,so he won't miss my cash.

[Dirk Diggler]

I would say it's very important. Especially as we were promised it.

 

Rewind.

 

Go on.

 

It's there in black and white if you'd care to read it.

 

Ta.

[Sheriff Fatman]

I would say it's very important. Especially as we were promised it. Scotland have produced legendary managers. The regime is a disgrace. Vlad is a liar. Rodney is a pathetic excuse for a chairman. And yet we can do nothing. Football is the only business the regime could get away with their nonsense, as fans are devoted +can't stop going etc. Vlad has eroded the passion I had for hmfc. I cannot accept Vlad's antics. The only power I have is to withhold my cash. He's loaded though,so he won't miss my cash.

 

Someone else who reads a plain English statement then only sees the words he wants. Preferred does not mean promised, talking too does not mean promised no matter how much you want it to.

[Sconnie]

If he wants to get the fans backing him, there's no chance Lhubo will be appointed. :mad: :mad:

 

Lubo was in The Sun today saying he'd be a great manager for us. He also said they've been friends since they were teenagers playing for Czechoslovakia. Considering he's done a bit of coaching I'd say it was a possibility.

[portobellojambo1]

I know that this was what was mentioned in the Jan 1st statement.

 

I would be inclined to feel that Weiss will have a Scottish assistant if he takes the job. I may be wrong.

 

But with all the wrist slashers going on about Hearts not fulfilling there own criteria, it leads me to ask the question; how important is 'a knowledge of British/Scottish football'?

 

Is it the case that Weiss is a very risky option due to his lack of the above? Or is it mainly the guys record in management & his work ethic that is most important? Is this guy doomed to failure due to his lack of experience in Britain?

 

Just wanting to gauge the concensus. Undecided on it myself.

 

.

 

Under normal circumstances I would say it isn't important at all Stairboy. However circumstances at Hearts are not normal at the moment. If we were where I think we should be, i.e. in the top 3, top 4 at least, and were trying to build on that (and the only way to build were to compete with Rangers and Celtic and within European competition) then the appointment of a European coach may bring that new dimension that could help us do that.

 

But as I said I do not think circumstances at Tynecastle are normal. Based on the conclusion to last season we have to learn to start competing with the likes of St Mirren, ICT, Falkirk etc again, get playing as a team again, find players who can step up to the mark and compete within the SPL, and I think a local man would have been best placed to do that.

 

Going back though, if we were at the right end of the table, which in itself would suggest we were holding our own and able to compete, then a foreign coach might add something different (although historically they have not been very successful in Scotland, those that have been had the Rangers/Celtic cash flow available to them, which is a good starting point), but at the moment we are not looking for something different, we are looking for normal service to return.

 

I think I have probably repeated myself a couple of time, but cannot be ersed editing it.

[Only a Game]

Someone else who reads a plain English statement then only sees the words he wants. Preferred does not mean promised, talking too does not mean promised no matter how much you want it to.

 

It gets down to how important they saw that "preference" as being. Clearly they thought it was important at the time or they wouldnt have included it in the statement. Clearly they dont think its important now or they wouldnt be considering Weiss.

 

Why the change ?

[scott herbertson]

It gets down to how important they saw that "preference" as being. Clearly they thought it was important at the time or they wouldnt have included it in the statement. Clearly they dont think its important now or they wouldnt be considering Weiss.

 

Why the change ?

 

 

Presumably because the level of candidates who have those qualifications, other than the Icelander, is too poor to consider them for the post.

[Eckauskas]

It's not that important.

 

A Scottish manager could come into the job and see the Old Firm as 2 imovable objects and just settle for being 3rd in the SPL. A foreign man like Weiss would be more likely to see them as just two other teams in the league and refuse to respect them in the way a Scottish manager might be more inclined to.

 

That fear factor might not be a factor with Weiss, especially considering he's played the Old Firm before.

 

I'd quite happily take getting gubbed 4-0 at Celtic Park in exchange for stuffing them 5-0 at home.

[Only a Game]

If he wants to get the fans backing him, there's no chance Lhubo will be appointed. :mad: :mad:

 

The fans as a whole backing him, or the 20 guys you go to games with who absented themselves from the Pressley game because he played for Celtic ?

 

I think you'll find conclusive evidence on here that Pressley was overwhelmingly backed by the fans, and Moravcik's previous association with Celtic would not play any part in whether he was backed or not, given that the MAJORITY of Hearts fans base is tolerant, fair, intelligent,multi-cultural and multi denominational.

[Eckauskas]

The fans as a whole backing him, or the 20 guys you go to games with who absented themselves from the Pressley game because he played for Celtic ?

 

I think you'll find conclusive evidence on here that Pressley was overwhelmingly backed by the fans, and Moravcik's previous association with Celtic would not play any part in whether he was backed or not, given that the MAJORITY of Hearts fans base is tolerant, fair, intelligent,multi-cultural and multi denominational.

 

Unless you're from anywhere East of Germany.

[Craigieboy]

Presumably because the level of candidates who have those qualifications, other than the Icelander, is too poor to consider them for the post.

 

Billy Davies?

 

I thought we would at least consider him. I don't think they did. Again, might be wrong.

 

.

[whitedevries]

"British Manager" = Loser!

 

Unless it's Ferguson, O'Neil, McLeish, Smith, Graham....

 

Two trophies in 40 years (One by a Lithuanian) - says it all really!

[scott herbertson]

Billy Davies?

 

I thought we would at least consider him. I don't think they did. Again, might be wrong.

 

.

 

I chose my words carefully - he wasn't a candidate for some reason (something he said? CO's opinion?). Neither for that matter was Levein (but he gave a good indication he didn't want to be) . They are unlikely to tell us who was sounded out, whether they ruled themselves out ofr were ruled out by us.

 

I regularly get sounded out in my job for posts - it is a matter of business etiquette that the agencies do not then say "Scott Herbertson's ruled himself out of this job" or "We ruled Scott Herbertson out of this job"

 

So I don't think we will ever be told of Davies was approached and refused or was not approached because he wasn't fancied.

 

If Hearts had issued a statement saying "we have ruled B Davies out" imagine the response on here! -

[Deek]

Somebody with a bit of knowledge, passion and feeling for the club would be good as well as being a half decent coach.

 

But we will never attract anyone who fills all the above criteria because of Vlad. Thats why we have Weiss as a front runner.

 

This season will be as bad as last years I predict.

[Fraggle]

I don't think that it is very important, the most important thing is the quality of the manager, I guess we would be able to judge that better if he had managed here. But I don't think Chelsea fans will be worring that Scolari has no English experience, Mourinho and Wenger didn't do bad jobs despite no experience in England and Wim Jansen won the title here so it's not essential.

 

Love it or hate it we are part of a pyramid system and we are going to see a lot of players from Eastern Europe, I think it's important that we have a manager who will make that work and make sure we get more Velicka's and fewer Kurkis's, so maybe that sort of thing is much more important than experience of the Scottish game.

 

Problem is mate, that won't be the managers call to make, someone else with little or no experience decides on that one.

[Craigieboy]

Well, this thread has plummeted into a deep depression.

 

Only to be expected I suppose.

 

We'll just need to wait and see.

 

I'm no that hopefull but happy to give the guy a chance.

 

.

[Charlie-Brown]

I know what I smell.

 

I think Johnny Fingers & Le Chat should be officially appointed as JKB Hibs-Finder Generals.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Lubo was in The Sun today saying he'd be a great manager for us. He also said they've been friends since they were teenagers playing for Czechoslovakia. Considering he's done a bit of coaching I'd say it was a possibility.

 

And he knows the Scottish game!!!

[Corrie Jambo]

If Weiss brings Lubo it could really be a positive move but we would need someone who has knowledge of the Scottish scene now. Could we get Pressley back into the fold???