Stadium planning.

[Nucky Thompson]

Are the council getting ready to approve our plans:dribble:

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/latestnews/City-to-get-3000-more.4188300.jp

With the need for Hotel rooms, we must be a stick on:)

[Mon]

I wouldn't be so sure. The planning application hasn't been approved yet. Personally I wouldn't hold your breath.

[Nucky Thompson]

I wouldn't be so sure. The planning application hasn't been approved yet. Personally I wouldn't hold your breath.

Something in my water tells me it is going to happen soon:)

[jambo-rocker]

when will the planning permission decision be annouced?

[Mon]

Something in my water tells me it aint

 

And it's probably got a lot to do with lack of finance/sponsorship.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Something in my water tells me it aint

 

And it's probably got a lot to do with lack of finance/sponsorship.

 

That really has nothing to do with the permission being granted? Unless teh con-sill has ran out of dosh?

 

Granting planning permission has nothing to do with wether we even build it or not? we can have it for 3 years and still do nothing, even after that we can ask for an extension. The council could not care less about our funds so long as they get their money for submitting an apllication and this has been done?

 

after that its down to Hearts to actually start the work, and that will still be dependant upon the moval of the whisky Vats and Tynie High being moved, as well as the nursery:confused:

[PTBCAL]

Something in my water tells me it aint

 

And it's probably got a lot to do with lack of finance/sponsorship.

 

Hearts current cash flow concerns are what the council are wary of.

 

P Lopez is working FT on attracting finance to the cost of the redevelopment and I would not be suprised if Hearts were/are struggling on that front.

 

I have said all along - if this does not happen it will because Hearts pull the plug no matter how they dress it up.

[Mon]

Hearts current cash flow concerns are what the council are wary of.

 

P Lopez is working FT on attracting finance to the cost of the redevelopment and I would not be suprised if Hearts were/are struggling on that front.

 

I have said all along - if this does not happen it will because Hearts pull the plug no matter how they dress it up.

 

 

 

To tell you the truth no one could have foreseen the crash of the markets. It's probably the worst time ever for Lopez to try and attract finance. I reckon they'll have to cut their cloth and do the minimum to get around the safety certificate problem but I don't think Romanov will be happy about that because he wanted to make money on the non footballing side. I think Hearts are in a serious cash flow situation at the moment.

[Hagar the Horrible]

Hearts current cash flow concerns are what the council are wary of.

 

P Lopez is working FT on attracting finance to the cost of the redevelopment and I would not be suprised if Hearts were/are struggling on that front.

 

I have said all along - if this does not happen it will because Hearts pull the plug no matter how they dress it up.

 

 

No the Hearts current cash flow are what some hobo COUNCILLORS are warry of, not the guys who are council planners? They have to treat each application on it's own merrit and provided it does not go against their planning rules, they do not check the validity of bank statements and as such if all critera met will grant it! And Hearts have spent over ?1m bucks getting it right before the plan was put in so as not to add delays and futher expendature on corrections? Even IF the council reject the application Hearts can still appeal and if that fails make a further appeal to the Scottish Exec (Government now)

[Hagar the Horrible]

To tell you the truth no one could have foreseen the crash of the markets. It's probably the worst time ever for Lopez to try and attract finance. I reckon they'll have to cut their cloth and do the minimum to get around the safety certificate problem but I don't think Romanov will be happy about that because he wanted to make money on the non footballing side. I think Hearts are in a serious cash flow situation at the moment.

 

That will actually bring building costs down as building firms will cut each others throats for the work, ansd so what if work does start immediately so long as the application has been granted!

[PTBCAL]

No the Hearts current cash flow are what some hobo COUNCILLORS are warry of, not the guys who are council planners? They have to treat each application on it's own merrit and provided it does not go against their planning rules, they do not check the validity of bank statements and as such if all critera met will grant it! And Hearts have spent over ?1m bucks getting it right before the plan was put in so as not to add delays and futher expendature on corrections? Even IF the council reject the application Hearts can still appeal and if that fails make a further appeal to the Scottish Exec (Government now)

 

HtH,

 

Hearts need to show 'proof of funds' to the council before any final decision is made re whisky vats and nursery (however a tri-parte (sp) agreement has been reached to move these which eradicates a major stumbling block) but the council are comfortable with Hearts proposals, as are the Police & H & S Exec. The council do no want to grant Hearts permission and knock down the nursery to find Hearts do not have the funds to build the new nursery - hence the need for proof of funds. The Bednar money and I suspect the next player sale (e.g Berra) will be ring fenced for this purpose.

 

Personally I am confident it will happen (as I understand) the council are very supportive of Heart's application. My fear are Hearts themselves.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

HtH,

 

Hearts need to show 'proof of funds' to the council before any final decision is made re whisky vats and nursery (however a tri-parte (sp) agreement has been reached to move these which eradicates a major stumbling block) but the council are comfortable with Hearts proposals, as are the Police & H & S Exec. The council do no want to grant Hearts permission and knock down the nursery to find Hearts do not have the funds to build the new nursery - hence the need for proof of funds. The Bednar money and I suspect the next player sale (e.g Berra) will be ring fenced for this purpose.

 

Personally I am confident it will happen (as I understand) the council are very supportive of Heart's application. My fear are Hearts themselves.

 

 

Your "proof of funds" comments are total fantasy. Here is the most up to date report from the council.

 

http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocID=110025

[Coco]

I continue to think that it is very unlikely that finance will be found for this development.

 

This is not a new thought - have posted it several times well before the current issues in the property/development market.

[coppercrutch]

To tell you the truth no one could have foreseen the crash of the markets. It's probably the worst time ever for Lopez to try and attract finance. I reckon they'll have to cut their cloth and do the minimum to get around the safety certificate problem but I don't think Romanov will be happy about that because he wanted to make money on the non footballing side. I think Hearts are in a serious cash flow situation at the moment.

 

Really...

 

I think you will find a few posters on this very site foresaw this well over a year ago.

 

Coco being one, and a certain CC being another......

[PTBCAL]

Your "proof of funds" comments are total fantasy. Here is the most up to date report from the council.

 

http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocID=110025

 

Sorry but I am getting my info from someone on the inside at both the planning dept and someone who working on the project for Hearts.

 

I believe their info to be correct as they have been 100% correct to-date. Whether you choose to believe my fantasy is up to you.

 

The point I am making is that the council want certain assurances from Hearts (financial including) before deciding whether approval is given or not.. IIRC even the papers alluded to this just before the AGM.

[PTBCAL]

I continue to think that it is very unlikely that finance will be found for this development.

 

This is not a new thought - have posted it several times well before the current issues in the property/development market.

 

Will UBIG not finance this until outside investment is sought?

[Mon]

Really...

 

I think you will find a few posters on this very site foresaw this well over a year ago.

 

Coco being one, and a certain CC being another......

 

 

 

Well up until Northern Rock I had no idea about the sub prime mortgage problem. If Lopez knew all about the crash in the markets before he spent 1M on an application which he knew he was never going to get the funds for then that is a gross misuse of Hearts' finances.

 

Anderton was sacked for less.

[coppercrutch]

Well up until Northern Rock I had no idea about the sub prime mortgage problem. If Lopez knew all about the crash in the markets before he spent 1M on an application which he knew he was never going to get the funds for then that is a gross misuse of Hearts' finances.

 

Anderton was sacked for less.

 

Indeed. Most people were in the same boat. But a fair number of people did know about it. You didn't have to be 'In the know' or anything similar to find out this information.

 

As you say this could be classed a serious overview, at least, by the club.

 

This whole thing is supposed to be supported by UBIG afterall. UBIG that contains an Investment bank Ukios.

 

You would think if even I could see this coming they would have known a lot more.......

[Coco]

Will UBIG not finance this until outside investment is sought?

 

Do UBIG have any capital to spare on this? Ukio Bankas certainly isn't big enough to finance it. And UBIG don't reveal any financial details as far as I am aware.

[PTBCAL]

Your "proof of funds" comments are total fantasy. Here is the most up to date report from the council.

 

http://cpol.edinburgh.gov.uk/getdoc_ext.asp?DocID=110025

 

The point I am making about proof of funds is that the council are requesting certain assurances from Hearts (mainly financial) and are insisting on a number of alterations i.e access etc...

 

The word I received was that Hearts did not have the funds curently to push the application forward. However that was back in March.

[Craig_]

I continue to think that it is very unlikely that finance will be found for this development.

 

This is not a new thought - have posted it several times well before the current issues in the property/development market.

 

Possibly so, but UBIG must be making a feckin' fortune out of the metals business at the moment!

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Sorry but I am getting my info from someone on the inside at both the planning dept and someone who working on the project for Hearts.

 

I believe their info to be correct as they have been 100% correct to-date. Whether you choose to believe my fantasy is up to you.

 

The point I am making is that the council want certain assurances from Hearts (financial including) before deciding whether approval is given or not.. IIRC even the papers alluded to this just before the AGM.

 

 

No chance, you are just another fantasist trying to get attention. The facts are in the latest report - end of.

[PTBCAL]

Do UBIG have any capital to spare on this? Ukio Bankas certainly isn't big enough to finance it. And UBIG don't reveal any financial details as far as I am aware.

 

No idea?

 

I just seem to recall something from the agm about the cost of the redevelopment being underwrittenn by UBIG although Hearts were seeking 'investment partners' or something like this.

[Mon]

Do UBIG have any capital to spare on this? Ukio Bankas certainly isn't big enough to finance it. And UBIG don't reveal any financial details as far as I am aware.

 

 

Have you had a look at Ukio Bankas' share price on the NASDAQ. Not looking good at all.

[Coco]

Possibly so, but UBIG must be making a feckin' fortune out of the metals business at the moment!

 

Perhaps but not necessarily.

 

We don't know what their sales and cost structure are, where they buy materials from - and their capital structure either. I've never seen a sensible estimate of their profits or cash flow.

[PTBCAL]

No chance, you are just another fantasist trying to get attention. The facts are in the latest report - end of.

 

Christ who rattled your cage.

 

I am certainly not that. You are out of order there.

 

Funny though if you look back at my posts on this I have been pretty much on the ball to-date - but that was a coincidence though wasn't it.

 

We'll leave it at that I think don't you.

[walton1983]

Do UBIG have any capital to spare on this? Ukio Bankas certainly isn't big enough to finance it. And UBIG don't reveal any financial details as far as I am aware.

 

UBIG have 3 stadiums on their website, none of which have started. Unlikely that Tynecastle will start first. A football stand only would be more realistic and finish the stadium off nicely. It could also be done a lot quicker and would increase revenue as` long as the playing side improves.

[Coco]

No idea?

 

I just seem to recall something from the agm about the cost of the redevelopment being underwrittenn by UBIG although Hearts were seeking 'investment partners' or something like this.

 

Might well be the case that they have underwritten it - in theory. But it is not necessarily the case that they have the finance to do it.

 

I think that they got to the party too late. I don't think that any of the other projects in their real estate development have started either. And my guess is that Tynecastle won't be redeveloped either. My preference at this point anyway would be tarting up the main stand to meet safety guidelines.

 

It is an exquisitely awful FACT now that the Pieman sold the stadium at the peak of the housebuilding cycle:eek:

[Jam Tarts 1874]

The point I am making about proof of funds is that the council are requesting certain assurances from Hearts (mainly financial) and are insisting on a number of alterations i.e access etc...

 

The word I received was that Hearts did not have the funds curently to push the application forward. However that was back in March.

 

I really don't know why I bother, re: access:

 

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Correspondence-686465.pdf?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=686465&wmLocation=0&location=VOLUME1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=1

 

Now are you going to stop wasting everybody's time?

[PTBCAL]

I really don't know why I bother, re: access:

 

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Correspondence-686465.pdf?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=686465&wmLocation=0&location=VOLUME1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=1

 

Now are you going to stop wasting everybody's time?

 

Ha-Ha.

 

Access.

 

As I posted many months ago I am referring to access to the stadium from the hotel - the police and council have concerns over this.

 

As you say - why do you bother.

[PTBCAL]

I really don't know why I bother, re: access:

 

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Correspondence-686465.pdf?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=686465&wmLocation=0&location=VOLUME1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=1

 

Now are you going to stop wasting everybody's time?

 

Check your PMs.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Might well be the case that they have underwritten it - in theory. But it is not necessarily the case that they have the finance to do it.

 

I think that they got to the party too late. I don't think that any of the other projects in their real estate development have started either. And my guess is that Tynecastle won't be redeveloped either. My preference at this point anyway would be tarting up the main stand to meet safety guidelines.

 

It is an exquisitely awful FACT now that the Pieman sold the stadium at the peak of the housebuilding cycle:eek:

 

When was Tynecastle stadium sold and to whom? I am looking at HMFC documents right now and as far as I can see the stadium is owned by Hearts.

 

Commercial property development is never a short term venture. There is no shortage of commercial development in the UK. Commercial property developers think in terms of 25 years+ in terms of returns. The fact is that it does not matter at which point in the cylce a commercial property is built, in some ways it makes sence to embark on a project when the market seems depressed because a development can be built at a lower cost

[Coco]

When was Tynecastle stadium sold and to whom? I am looking at HMFC documents right now and as far as I can see the stadium is owned by Hearts.

 

Commercial property development is never a short term venture. There is no shortage of commercial development in the UK. Commercial property developers think in terms of 25 years+ in terms of returns. The fact is that it does not matter at which point in the cylce a commercial property is built, in some ways it makes sence to embark on a project when the market seems depressed because a development can be built at a lower cost

 

Tynecastle was sold to CALA Homes.

 

Perhaps it will be 25 years before VR and UBIG get the money together to rebuild Tynecastle.

[Jambo83]

"If you build it, they will come"

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Ha-Ha.

 

Access.

 

As I posted many months ago I am referring to access to the stadium from the hotel - the police and council have concerns over this.

 

As you say - why do you bother.

 

Concerns, hardly. Perhaps others will judge for themselves as to the nature of Lothian & Borders Police comments. Nothing more than a list of questions.

 

http://citydev-portal.edinburgh.gov.uk/WAM/doc/Correspondence-674317.pdf?extension=.pdf&wmTransparency=0&id=674317&wmLocation=0&location=VOLUME1&contentType=application%2Fpdf&wmName=&pageCount=2

 

You haven't posted anything that has not been in the public domain.

[Jam Tarts 1874]

Tynecastle was sold to CALA Homes.

 

Perhaps it will be 25 years before VR and UBIG get the money together to rebuild Tynecastle.

 

 

No chance, where do you get your information? Robinson done a deal, which was cancelled by Romanov at considerable cost.

 

It's like dealing with nursery school children on here!

[Coco]

No chance, where do you get your information? Robinson done a deal, which was cancelled by Romanov at considerable cost.

 

It's like dealing with nursery school children on here!

 

So the sale was agreed and then cancelled when Foulkes/Romanov paid the penalty clause. You would agree that a sale to CALA was agreed?

[PTBCAL]

No chance, where do you get your information? Robinson done a deal, which was cancelled by Romanov at considerable cost.

 

It's like dealing with nursery school children on here!

 

I think it was ?75k.

 

Do you think it will be built?

 

Geniune question.

[bighusref]

As I say on all of these threads, I believe it will be built. I only believe this as it is the ONLY way that VR/UBIG can go anyway towards getting some of their money back.

[steven100]

The stadium will get built. VR has my backing and finances won't be a problem. Hearts don't have finance problems, the problem lies with everything goes through VR bank in Lith......

I'm a believer.

[Guest jambomickey]

hopefully the stand will be built but as i've said since day one i'll believe it when i see it.

[Le Chat]

No chance, where do you get your information? Robinson done a deal, which was cancelled by Romanov at considerable cost.

 

It's like dealing with nursery school children on here!

 

Its easy to see that you're relatively new here as if you had seen what PTBCAL has posted before about the application etc. you wouldn't be making such a trumpet of yourself as you currently are.

 

Best to bow out now while you've still got a little credibility IMO.

[coppercrutch]

When was Tynecastle stadium sold and to whom? I am looking at HMFC documents right now and as far as I can see the stadium is owned by Hearts.

 

Commercial property development is never a short term venture. There is no shortage of commercial development in the UK. Commercial property developers think in terms of 25 years+ in terms of returns. The fact is that it does not matter at which point in the cylce a commercial property is built, in some ways it makes sence to embark on a project when the market seems depressed because a development can be built at a lower cost

 

When the costs of raw materials for the development are skyrocketing.

At the same time as the cost of transporting these goods is skyrocketing.

 

I do agree that in theory getting a good deal from a developer at this time may be a possibility.

 

However I am not sure if in reality this would actually occur.

[redm]

When the costs of raw materials for the development are skyrocketing.

At the same time as the cost of transporting these goods is skyrocketing.

 

I do agree that in theory getting a good deal from a developer at this time may be a possibility.

 

However I am not sure if in reality this would actually occur.

 

Yes, but that's a snapshot of market conditions at this point in time. Chances are that things might well have improved significantly by the time they start looking at construction.

 

There's no way to predict how quickly the market will recover but it will happen, and some even think we'll see a drastic improvement by the end of 2008. I don't know enough about the finance side to really know how true this is but from an industry perspective, there are a few hints that it might be on the mend.

 

If the media would give it a rest and stop freaking people out, it would recover a whole lot quicker though....

[JohnT74]

Sorry but I am getting my info from someone on the inside at both the planning dept and someone who working on the project for Hearts.

 

I believe their info to be correct as they have been 100% correct to-date. Whether you choose to believe my fantasy is up to you.

 

The point I am making is that the council want certain assurances from Hearts (financial including) before deciding whether approval is given or not.. IIRC even the papers alluded to this just before the AGM.

 

 

You're not being questioned because you're wrong, you're being questioned because you're saying things that the believer's don't want to hear. You'll be labeled a hobo before long

 

I've always found your posts on the subject to be very accurate and if you say there are cash flow problems then there are cash flow problems. The early availability of season tickets, clearout of players with any value attached to them and church hall jumble sale (cash only please) back up that view.

[Guest JamboRobbo]

Your "proof of funds" comments are total fantasy.

 

Just like most of what you've posted on this thread then.

[Coco]

You're not being questioned because you're wrong, you're being questioned because you're saying things that the believer's don't want to hear. You'll be labeled a hobo before long

 

I've always found your posts on the subject to be very accurate and if you say there are cash flow problems then there are cash flow problems. The early availability of season tickets, clearout of players with any value attached to them and church hall jumble sale (cash only please) back up that view.

 

It has been obvious that there have been cash flow problems at Hearts for at least a year and a half.

 

The bigger question is whether there are capital/cash flow problems at UBIG which might prevent the stadium development happening.