Dia Liom Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 No the 5 year plan hasn't fallen apart but it is far from "on track" because rather than signing good spfl players we've signed useless nobodies and our squad is now packed full of them. Gordon Vs Struna+rherras+sowah+oshaniwa is 1 example. You'd rather sign Ziggy Gordon over Osman Sow, Goncalves or Djoum? Or are you simply saying that you'd rather we signed good players rather than bad ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siegementality Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 You'd rather sign Ziggy Gordon over Osman Sow, Goncalves or Djoum? Or are you simply saying that you'd rather we signed good players rather than bad ones? I think we would all rather we signed good players surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 You'd rather sign Ziggy Gordon over Osman Sow, Goncalves or Djoum? Or are you simply saying that you'd rather we signed good players rather than bad ones? Sow goncalves or djoum aren't full backs, why would you compare them to gordon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALDOS Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Interesting read http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39793314 Seems like Poland coaches with similar attention to detail as Cathro and McPhee. I wonder how this will be interpreted by the MSM how do you know Cathro and McPhee have an attention to detail that is any different to the other coaches in all scottish teams? Genuine question as thats the two you picked out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swimmer Posted May 5, 2017 Author Share Posted May 5, 2017 how do you know Cathro and McPhee have an attention to detail that is any different to the other coaches in all scottish teams? Genuine question as thats the two you picked out. Purely from the interviews with his players saying his attention to detail is incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Clearly I know more than you...someone gullible enough to read one story from one player who has been away from Scotland for 4 months and take it as truth It's all too easy to read a story but look at the facts Polish teams getting to the latter stages of the Champions League or Europa League..NO Polish coaches and managers at the helm of top sides in Europe...NO Polish football the envy of Europe..NO The worlds coaches attending the licensing courses in Poland.., NO Poland has not had anywhere near the quality of managers Scotland has produced in all their history..there's no Ferguson, Stein or Shankly in their history. They have a large population so of course they should be better off than Scotland in a playing sense....in any case its the silly statement Gordon makes after less than 4 months that we are discussing. Players like and dislike managers often depending upon whether they are picked or not and he's happy for now but lets see what happens in a year or two when he's lost his place and wants to come back to Scotland (or the UK)..he's hardly going to tell the world the set up is rubbish and lose his place I'm happy for him and well done for going abroad but I doubt there is this large number of top class coaches in their country overall........like anywhere else the good coaches will be at the better clubs and he is with one of their top sides so I would hope he does get decent coaching which might be a step up from what he received previously... given he was at Partick Thistle and Hamilton Accies then that could well be the case...and of course no mention of the resources on and off the field available to those clubs in comparison with the team he is representing at present. Poland keep qualifying for tournaments, Scotland do not. You seem pretty angry at the idea of someone claiming Scottish coaches aren't as good as ones he's seeing in another country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I am clearly not the right person to answer your questions being incarcerated in my bedroom my whole life. However there are other points of view http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/39802420 Imagine using Tam McManus and Ian McCall to back up your point They've done the square root of **** all with their time in football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmfc_liam06 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Imagine using Tam McManus and Ian McCall to back up your point They've done the square root of **** all with their time in football. And seem to miss Ziggy's point to boot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Dunphy Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 And seem to miss Ziggy's point to boot. Ian McCall, who's won a Challenge Cup in nearly 20 years of management. He seems like the right sort to comment on coaching standards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musemic Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Ian McCall, who's won a Challenge Cup in nearly 20 years of management. to comment He seems like the right sort to comment on coaching standards. He played for the blue erse cheek so that is surely qualification enough to comment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALDOS Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Purely from the interviews with his players saying his attention to detail is incredible!thats kinda what I thought, but in all honesty this is quite a common thing from any players asked about their current manager. I dont think for a minute Ziggy Gordon is making this up in his head, but its nothing new to hear this from players home or abroad. One thing often overlooked in this country, is the social problem that acts a large trench between 14-16year olds making it or failing. The ability/knowledge/facilities/training are all there, even at some of the smaller clubs, its the home life/culture that gets in the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VALDOS Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 thats kinda what I thought, but in all honesty this is quite a common thing from any players asked about their current manager. I dont think for a minute Ziggy Gordon is making this up in his head, but its nothing new to hear this from players home or abroad. One thing often overlooked in this country, is the social problem that acts a large trench between 14-16year olds making it or failing. The ability/knowledge/facilities/training are all there, even at some of the smaller clubs, its the home life/culture that gets in the way when they reach this age bracket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eldar Hadzimehmedovic Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Scottish football is and will likely remain in the dark ages, unless we give the new breed such as Cathro a chance. It's been a hellish few months but he's still got my backing for pretty much everything Ziggy says in that interview. I actually broadly agree with this but Christ it sounds stupid when Scottish football is schooling Cathro almost every week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvoys Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Championship clubs battling to get Polish coaches in over been there and done it Alex Neil. No, I thought not. Countries should develop their own football cultures and stop thinking they can become something else. Look at the arse walk on water Pep has made of it . Cloughie would chortle at wide eyed foamers like Ziggy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dia Liom Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Sow goncalves or djoum aren't full backs, why would you compare them to gordon? Is it only for full backs that we should implement your scottish league transfer policy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Championship clubs battling to get Polish coaches in over been there and done it Alex Neil. No, I thought not. Countries should develop their own football cultures and stop thinking they can become something else. Look at the arse walk on water Pep has made of it . Cloughie would chortle at wide eyed foamers like Ziggy. Clough was ahead of his time in the 70s and early 80s but even before he retired he was seen as "past it" - he got too cantankerous and arrogant in his old age. Are you saying we should be sitting here resting on the laurels of coaches like Stein, Paisley & Shankly from the 60s-80s? That has the ring of Glaswegians who still talk of the romance of working in a shipyard... Gordon was giving HIS opinion based on HIS experiences of working in Scotland and Poland. I'm sure there are better coaches out there in Scotland than the ones at Hamilton and Partick. As an observation it sounds like he has gone from bottom end of SPL to top end of Polish league so chances are he IS dealing with best coaches in Poland whereas he was not in Scotland. However, the prickliness of McCall and McManus calling him out is just the usual "head in the sand - everything's guid here!" mentality of rent-a-quoters from Radio football shows... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvoys Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Clough was ahead of his time in the 70s and early 80s but even before he retired he was seen as "past it" - he got too cantankerous and arrogant in his old age. Are you saying we should be sitting here resting on the laurels of coaches like Stein, Paisley & Shankly from the 60s-80s? That has the ring of Glaswegians who still talk of the romance of working in a shipyard... Gordon was giving HIS opinion based on HIS experiences of working in Scotland and Poland. I'm sure there are better coaches out there in Scotland than the ones at Hamilton and Partick. As an observation it sounds like he has gone from bottom end of SPL to top end of Polish league so chances are he IS dealing with best coaches in Poland whereas he was not in Scotland. However, the prickliness of McCall and McManus calling him out is just the usual "head in the sand - everything's guid here!" mentality of rent-a-quoters from Radio football shows... Again, I'll use the example of Pep abysmal year as the example which sums this up for me. Different contexts for different countries. There isn't a single Polish coach who'd be more successful in the fifth richest league in world (Champ) than Alex Neil who he derides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weegie jambo Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Again, I'll use the example of Pep abysmal year as the example which sums this up for me. Different contexts for different countries. There isn't a single Polish coach who'd be more successful in the fifth richest league in world (Champ) than Alex Neil who he derides.Ziggy didn't deride Alex Neil he just gave an opinion on his coaching experiences in Poland compared to Scotland. At no point does he put any person down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Again, I'll use the example of Pep abysmal year as the example which sums this up for me. Different contexts for different countries. There isn't a single Polish coach who'd be more successful in the fifth richest league in world (Champ) than Alex Neil who he derides. Is Alex Neil not unemployed at the moment? He's not in any league... I'm unsure what point you are trying to make here? By and large only the very top coaches work outside the country/ies where they are native speakers. Simple truth is Scotland has no top coaches at the moment - which is probably why people are harking back to Stein, Shankly, Busby and Paisley - they're not going to risk saying "Davie Moyes is da bomb!"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Again, I'll use the example of Pep abysmal year as the example which sums this up for me. Different contexts for different countries. There isn't a single Polish coach who'd be more successful in the fifth richest league in world (Champ) than Alex Neil who he derides.Alex Neil isn't a successful coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvoys Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Alex Neil isn't a successful coach. Stormed it with Norwich though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spellczech Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Stormed it with Norwich though. By stormed it you mean relegation then sacked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvoys Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 By stormed it you mean relegation then sacked? No his initial unbeaten championship surge to promotion. The FIFA rankings are a joke. Poland are not that impressive and like Wales benefit from having one world beater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unknown user Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 I've experienced work in both Scottish and dutch factories, and because of this, I feel like I'd be able to compare the two, from my own personal experience. If someone who'd experienced neither came along to say the opinion I'd formed from personal experience was wrong, it would be pretty hard to take them seriously. I'd say that Ziggy Gordon, intelligent and considered (former scottish chess champion who had to choose between a career in chess or football), is one of the foremost experts in comparing current Polish and Scottish coaching experiences, especially compared to Tam ****ing McManus and Ian ****ing Mccall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finlay James Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 thats kinda what I thought, but in all honesty this is quite a common thing from any players asked about their current manager. I dont think for a minute Ziggy Gordon is making this up in his head, but its nothing new to hear this from players home or abroad. One thing often overlooked in this country, is the social problem that acts a large trench between 14-16year olds making it or failing. The ability/knowledge/facilities/training are all there, even at some of the smaller clubs, its the home life/culture that gets in the way. Other countries have social problems too; poverty, substance misuse, health and education inequalities are not exclusive to Scotland. Some of the greatest players in history came from very poor backgrounds but it never stopped them from achieving. For me, what stops us achieving in Scotland is attitude and an inability to look out with our comfort zone. We think we know it all when actually, we have never achieved a thing. Scottish football needs a huge overhaul that will involve a cultural change from top to bottom but it will never happen because we already know best. We produced Dalglish, Law, Souness and Hansen don't you know! When clubs in Scotland do try something different or plan ahead, they are mocked rather than applauded. Look at the reaction to a 30 year old who had never played before being appointed head coach at Hearts. You would think we had brought in ET. Look at how our plans to develop young players and coaches has been received. Again, we are led to believe that it will never work. Ironically, we are told this by folk within Scottish football who of course are the font of all knowledge such as Kris Boyd or Jamie Fullerton. Ultimately, nobody can say with certainty whether it will or won't work but I'm extremely proud that my club is leading the way in moving Scotland forward. What Ziggy Gordon has described is fairly standard in countries outwith Scotland and good on him for highlighting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
socrates82 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Is this not more of a Hamilton/Thistle-his new club comparison than a Scotland-Poland comparison, unless he's played at lots of other Scottish and Polish clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_A wehatethehibs Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Is it only for full backs that we should implement your scottish league transfer policy? Not going to spell out the meaning of the phrase "in a nutshell" to you, I'll leave you to wallow in your confusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.