Tziolis kills the game ( merged threads )

[RudiHMFC]

Yeah, but it needs better posts around it to really make a difference.

[Franksluckypants]

I'm with wavydavy on this!

 

His cameo in the Rangers match fooled me (and obviously quite a few others).

 

Yes he can and still does look really classy/ cool on the ball and is decent in the air, but for me, the negative's far out weights the positives.

 

During the run of defeats, a major culprit (though by no means the only one), was this guy going completely awol. Doesn't like a tackle, and simply not up for the fight. He seems to have 3 speeds. Slow, slow, and stop.

 

As for trying him in CD. Yip I recon he would do ok with everything in front of him, but when the ball's played in behind him...what are the chances he would be up for sprint chase?

[jr ewing]

Stick him in at centre back. Job done.Next question?

[karipidis]

I mentioned to my other half when I got in earlier that Tziolis is one of the best players we've had in recent years. It should be a privilege watching him. But its not...

 

You can see flashes of the world class player he is, but he spends most of time smiling ruefully at players around him, the opposition who just try to boot him in the air and our woeful match officials.

 

We don't have a central midfielder in the squad to compliment him.

World class player!!?? Dearie me.

[King prawn]

I thought Kitchen was the one taking half a second too long with each pass yesterday. Plenty of times we had Smith and Struna stood on the touchline free but by the time Kitchen released the ball, Dundee's defence had shuffled back across.

 

If we're going to play from side to side to create openings it needs to be done quicker so there is a greater chance of an opposition player not picking up a man.

[Bazzas right boot]

I thought Kitchen was the one taking half a second too long with each pass yesterday. Plenty of times we had Smith and Struna stood on the touchline free but by the time Kitchen released the ball, Dundee's defence had shuffled back across.

 

If we're going to play from side to side to create openings it needs to be done quicker so there is a greater chance of an opposition player not picking up a man.

 

 

Kitchen alway made himself available, doesn't shy away.

 

He won't drive forward, its frsutrating I agree, but he isn't that type of player, we know that. Thing is he gets stuck in and makes himself avaialable. idn't play well yesterday but normally he doesnt give the ball away much. Him and Tzolis together isn't great, only one should play, for me it is Kitchen.

 

Although yesterday, Tzolis was in the team to drop back and help out the centre halfs, so I  understand that to an extent.

[Spencer]

Kitchen alway made himself available, doesn't shy away.

 

He won't drive forward, its frsutrating I agree, but he isn't that type of player, we know that. Thing is he gets stuck in and makes himself avaialable. idn't play well yesterday but normally he doesnt give the ball away much. Him and Tzolis together isn't great, only one should play, for me it is Kitchen.

 

Although yesterday, Tzolis was in the team to drop back and help out the centre halfs, so I understand that to an extent.

When people suggest Kitchen plays ahead of Tziolis I have to say i'm out of the thread

[King prawn]

Kitchen alway made himself available, doesn't shy away.

 

He won't drive forward, its frsutrating I agree, but he isn't that type of player, we know that. Thing is he gets stuck in and makes himself avaialable. idn't play well yesterday but normally he doesnt give the ball away much. Him and Tzolis together isn't great, only one should play, for me it is Kitchen.

 

Although yesterday, Tzolis was in the team to drop back and help out the centre halfs, so I understand that to an extent.

Can't disagree with that. Must admit I was hoping Martin was the player we needed to get us playing a bit further up the park and move the ball quicker. I hope he becomes that anyway.

 

Best combination perhaps would be Kitchen and Martin - Kitchen providing the legs.

[Mikey1874]

Its more about the other players not creating space to make themselves available for a pass. Happened a lot yesterday in an otherwise decent performance.

 

Fans then shout at the player with the ball.

[wavydavy]

Kitchen alway made himself available, doesn't shy away.

 

He won't drive forward, its frsutrating I agree, but he isn't that type of player, we know that. Thing is he gets stuck in and makes himself avaialable. idn't play well yesterday but normally he doesnt give the ball away much. Him and Tzolis together isn't great, only one should play, for me it is Kitchen.

 

Although yesterday, Tzolis was in the team to drop back and help out the centre halfs, so I  understand that to an extent.

 

Absolute nonsense, he did not always make himself available, A number of times Smith had the ball wide left and was looking for an outlet and Kitchen was making no attempt to move into space to receive a pass. In one instance in the second half he actually stood in behind Smith as if covering for him when Dundee had no players forward in that position.

 

He needs at least two touches every time he receives the ball and his first instict is usually to go backwards or sideways hardly ever forward.

 

He's pretty good at pointing though after he passes the ball backwards he points up the pitch to tell the player where to put the ball which is where he should have put it in the first place.

 

Can't see the need for two defensive mids in a game at home to one of the worst teams in the league. However having said that we seem to have a lack of options as Martin is murder and Beith inexperienced and we played Bauben at CB.

[Mikey1874]

Absolute nonsense, he did not always make himself available, A number of times Smith had the ball wide left and was looking for an outlet and Kitchen was making no attempt to move into space to receive a pass. In one instance in the second half he actually stood in behind Smith as if covering for him when Dundee had no players forward in that position.

 

He needs at least two touches every time he receives the ball and his first instict is usually to go backwards or sideways hardly ever forward.

 

He's pretty good at pointing though after he passes the ball backwards he points up the pitch to tell the player where to put the ball which is where he should have put it in the first place.

 

Can't see the need for two defensive mids in a game at home to one of the worst teams in the league. However having said that we seem to have a lack of options as Martin is murder and Beith inexperienced and we played Bauben at CB.

Yeah

 

Lack of out balls was problem all game

 

Sign of a team lacking confidence

[mitch41]

Can anyone tell me what this guy does for the team. He swans about a small area of the pitch making the odd pass that puts it's receiver in trouble. Talk about being lazy he's as bad if not worse than that Spaniard striker we loaned out last season.

[Toxteth O'Grady]

Can anyone tell me what this guy does for the team. He swans about a small area of the pitch making the odd pass that puts it's receiver in trouble. Talk about being lazy he's as bad if not worse than that Spaniard striker we loaned out last season.

Almost as lazy as not looking down the page a wee bit for this thread http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/168959-tziolis-kills-the-game/

[mitch41]

Almost as lazy as not looking down the page a wee bit for this thread http://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/168959-tziolis-kills-the-game/

Cheeky beggar.

[mitch41]

Its more about the other players not creating space to make themselves available for a pass. Happened a lot yesterday in an otherwise decent performance.

 

Fans then shout at the player with the ball.

Rubbish.

[Gambo]

Can anyone tell me what this guy does for the team. He swans about a small area of the pitch making the odd pass that puts it's receiver in trouble. Talk about being lazy he's as bad if not worse than that Spaniard striker we loaned out last season.

He is not lazy imo, he makes space to receive passes, then looks up to see statues.

[mitch41]

He is not lazy imo, he makes space to receive passes, then looks up to see statues.

He is a lazy player. Stop making excuses and blaming other players.

He wings it in every game that's why he plays at Hearts and our management have been conned again like too many of the other fuds they have signed. Our scouting system is shocking. Agents are conning our management. 9 players signed in january and more than half are a complete waste of space.

[mitch41]

He is a lazy player. Stop making excuses and blaming other players.

He wings it in every game that's why he plays at Hearts and our management have been conned again like too many of the other fuds they have signed. Our scouting system is shocking. Agents are conning our management. 9 players signed in january and more than half are a complete waste of space.

Once we all accept the truth, including Ann Budge, about our management regarding signings, team selections, tactics, coaching ect , we will never get to where Hearts belong.

[karipidis]

He is a lazy player. Stop making excuses and blaming other players.

He wings it in every game that's why he plays at Hearts and our management have been conned again like too many of the other fuds they have signed. Our scouting system is shocking. Agents are conning our management. 9 players signed in january and more than half are a complete waste of space.

His style of play may make him look lazy but it's ironically a lazy view to brandish him this. If Pirlo or Xabi Alonso played for hearts they would probably be brandished lazy as they don't run about like headless chickens. The guy is a very good player, and we need players to accommodate that. He is always on trying to get on the ball, looking to get into space and very tactically astute. I don't think he's shown his best, but he probably doesn't have the usual quality of players around him.

[livi]

He seems to divide opinion but the way he is being played by Cathro suggests he will be here next season if he wants to stay. Everything seemed to revolve round him yesterday as he was always the player other players were trying to give the ball to start things off.

 

I think he is a good player but doesn't suit the speed that Scottish football is played at. If we had more movement up front rather than just Goncalves he might have looked better.

[mitch41]

His style of play may make him look lazy but it's ironically a lazy view to brandish him this. If Pirlo or Xabi Alonso played for hearts they would probably be brandished lazy as they don't run about like headless chickens. The guy is a very good player, and we need players to accommodate that. He is always on trying to get on the ball, looking to get into space and very tactically astute. I don't think he's shown his best, but he probably doesn't have the usual quality of players around him.

Utter mince. The man is a passenger there is no doubt about it. What an excuse to come out with saying "He probably doesn't have the usual quality of players around him".

I'm sitting here watching Everton v Leicster and every outfield player is knocking their pan in for their team.

Tziolis is a lazy selfish player who has never tried a leg playing for Hearts.

[Smith&Weston]

Utter mince. The man is a passenger there is no doubt about it. What an excuse to come out with saying "He probably doesn't have the usual quality of players around him".

I'm sitting here watching Everton v Leicster and every outfield player is knocking their pan in for their team.

Tziolis is a lazy selfish player who has never tried a leg playing for Hearts.

There is no doubt he has ability but simply he is too slow for British football. We need players in the middle of the park that are full of energy and will get about the pitch.

[rudi must stay]

His style of play may make him look lazy but it's ironically a lazy view to brandish him this. If Pirlo or Xabi Alonso played for hearts they would probably be brandished lazy as they don't run about like headless chickens. The guy is a very good player, and we need players to accommodate that. He is always on trying to get on the ball, looking to get into space and very tactically astute. I don't think he's shown his best, but he probably doesn't have the usual quality of players around him.

If Pirlo or Xabi Alonso played for Hearts they would do better than him. He is the king of the sideways pass. He does well marking players and never gives in trying to get the ball back, but like Perry Kitchen if you want a successful team these guys shouldnt have the ball long as we have better passers who can get the ball and create

[Gambo]

If Pirlo or Xabi Alonso played for Hearts they would do better than him. He is the king of the sideways pass. He does well marking players and never gives in trying to get the ball back, but like Perry Kitchen if you want a successful team these guys shouldnt have the ball long as we have better passers who can get the ball and create

What were the options in front of him?

[rudi must stay]

What were the options in front of him?

Goncalves, Djoum and Walker. All three are good at finding space, but he prefers a sideways pass

[Gambo]

Goncalves, Djoum and Walker. All three are good at finding space, but he prefers a sideways pass

Djuom was generally a sideways pass. So he only had 2 well marked players 30-40 yards ahead to aim for?

 

Goncalves was the only one ahead who moved for a pass but he was the other end of the pitch to Tziolis when he had the ball.

[Spencer]

Goncalves, Djoum and Walker. All three are good at finding space, but he prefers a sideways pass

Walker and Djoum were poor yesterday

[RudiHMFC]

Thought Djoum was alright tbh, i only saw the first half but he was one of the better ones I'd say.

[rudi must stay]

Djuom was generally a sideways pass. So he only had 2 well marked players 30-40 yards ahead to aim for?

 

Goncalves was the only one ahead who moved for a pass but he was the other end of the pitch to Tziolis when he had the ball.

 

on the counter attack Cowie managed to find Goncalves. It's all about attitude, Tziolis is a play it safe guy. He goes for easy passes

[Section Q]

I like this guy, I think he is one of the better footballers we have had at Tynecastle, classy and quality. He is good at what he does, mops things up, keeps possession and plays a simple ball. He is big imposing and effective. ge doesn't start great moves, but that's not what he is good at, if he had other quality players next to him who could take the ball from him and start forward killer moves they would work amazing together and he would be an integral part of a quality side.

The problem is - we don't have that other player to play along side him. And he doesn't have anything else in his locker besides that one style, one gear and one trick. And that one thing he does well does not fit in Scottish football without quality players around you. So all he serves to do is kill the game, take any momentum out of our play and disrupt us from having any attacking rhythm.

I want to like him, he could be top class, i'd love to watch him stroll confidently through games making us look great. But instead I fear he is one element that is really holding us back and blocking the team from getting any sort of playing style or attacking consistency going. So bizarrely I think he is one player who I think is one of the better ones in the squad that I think it would be better we got rid off than built a team around.

Can't/Won't touch the ball with his left foot. Cost us the game against Ross County....Taxi please...!

[Jambob]

Sadly his lack of pace and energy render him pretty ineffective in Scottish football. He is by no means alone in this in the current squad.

[Rudy T]

He technically the most gifted player I've seen at Tynecastle in a very long time. However he lacks the two things that separate great players and we'll just technically gifted players....Heart and Energy he's seems to have neither.

 

When you see the list of clubs he's played for compared to medals it tells the whole story.

 

Looking at Cathros intended style of play you can see why he brought him in. I'd suggest as the link man between defence and attack. Two problems he hasn't got the urgency or the players ahead of him to be effective enough. I can see a couple more of his type showing up in the summer!

[Firefox]

It's not a top post.

 

It's an admission of ignorance.

 

Tziolis is being asked to play a role that is alien to him. He should be the midfield general, comfortable knowing that there is a player alongside him and behind him covering.

 

As was the case when he first broke into the team.

 

Nowak being required to play at centre half meant Tziolis had to drop deeper. He neither has the pace nor aptitude to play such a role.

 

Its really quite simple.

Hit the nail on the head !!!

[Bazzas right boot]

He technically the most gifted player I've seen at Tynecastle in a very long time. However he lacks the two things that separate great players and we'll just technically gifted players....Heart and Energy he's seems to have neither.

 

When you see the list of clubs he's played for compared to medals it tells the whole story.

 

Looking at Cathros intended style of play you can see why he brought him in. I'd suggest as the link man between defence and attack. Two problems he hasn't got the urgency or the players ahead of him to be effective enough. I can see a couple more of his type showing up in the summer!

Watt was also technically gifted, you have to have an impact or be effective tho, imo.

 

Tzolis unfortunately? is neither.

 

Kitchen is effective along with Cowie

Djoum and walker can make an impact when on form.

Tzolis looks good, but neither has an impact on the game and isn't effective enough to help the team.

 

Even the fish was effective, got in the way, put himself about, helped the team and set up goals now and then.

 

Good technical player but offers little. Shame.

[Spencer]

Watt was also technically gifted, you have to have an impact or be effective tho, imo.

 

Tzolis unfortunately? is neither.

 

Kitchen is effective along with Cowie

Djoum and walker can make an impact when on form.

Tzolis looks good, but neither has an impact on the game and isn't effective enough to help the team.

 

Even the fish was effective, got in the way, put himself about, helped the team and set up goals now and then.

 

Good technical player but offers little. Shame.

Kitchen in Tziolis out

 

[Harry Potter]

Watt was also technically gifted, you have to have an impact or be effective tho, imo.

 

Tzolis unfortunately? is neither.

 

Kitchen is effective along with Cowie

Djoum and walker can make an impact when on form.

Tzolis looks good, but neither has an impact on the game and isn't effective enough to help the team.

 

Even the fish was effective, got in the way, put himself about, helped the team and set up goals now and then.

 

Good technical player but offers little. Shame.

Watt was not managed well at tynecastle, most gifted player ive watched at Hearts.

[saxondale]

There was nothing wrong with how he was managed. He is clearly unmanageable based on how many clubs he has joined/left as well pretty scathing reports of his attitude from other managers.

 

You are clearly just looking to criticize our management.

[soonbe110]

He is not lazy imo, he makes space to receive passes, then looks up to see statues.

thats it in a nutshell. We have too many players in midfield and upfront that hide when we have the ball. When was the last time one of our 'strikers' made a run to the near post when a cross comes in? They just hide behind defenders at the back post. If we had one or two box to box midfielders playing alongside Tziolis every week we would be a different team. Cowie works hard at this role but can't do it continually for 90 mins. Hopefully Tziolis is still here next season and we sign a couple of mobile midfielders.

[Debut 4]

thats it in a nutshell. We have too many players in midfield and upfront that hide when we have the ball. When was the last time one of our 'strikers' made a run to the near post when a cross comes in? They just hide behind defenders at the back post. If we had one or two box to box midfielders playing alongside Tziolis every week we would be a different team. Cowie works hard at this role but can't do it continually for 90 mins. Hopefully Tziolis is still here next season and we sign a couple of mobile midfielders.

That was my point earlier.

 

Too many defensive minded midfielders in our team.

 

I hate stigmas but for the sake of the debate I say we only need one sitting midfielder in the spl.

 

As you say, be it Tziolis, Kitchen or whoever else we get to play there we should have 1or 2 mobile and attack minded midfielders around him.

 

Or more balanced midfielders at least.

 

There's a lot wrong with Hearts just now but I'd say we'd benefit from making those changes and also scouring the market for a good wide man too for a strong running midfield to combine with.

[viva hate]

Tziolis makes moves and space to receive the ball, when he gets it the same cannot be said of his colleagues.

 

Played well today but definitely not his fault we were slow.

I agree with this. He is always available in space to receive a pass and can pass his way out of tight difficult situations. We can't have Kitchen alongside him and since Tziolis is a better player we should keep him. Getting players in who are able to receive a pass without having a heart attack will be our priority IMO.

[Bazzas right boot]

Watt was not managed well at tynecastle, most gifted player ive watched at Hearts.

mmm, thats about 5 managers and what, 4/5 clubs. something isn't right with him.

 

Could be a very good player, but you have to have an end product.

 

Whether it being a dirty/ hard man or goals, you need to add something to the team. Watt never, and I am a fan of his. No doubt at some point he'll have a great few seasons. he has  the talent.

 

Tzolis is falling into that category, great touch, looks pretty but over the piece adds little. He is also older and winding down so it can be expected, Watt should be cracking on and improving.

 

With regards to Watt, Sammon offered more, yet there is no doubt who the better player is, but football is a team game and you need to offer something to the team.

[Bazzas right boot]

That was my point earlier.

 

Too many defensive minded midfielders in our team.

 

I hate stigmas but for the sake of the debate I say we only need one sitting midfielder in the spl.

 

As you say, be it Tziolis, Kitchen or whoever else we get to play there we should have 1or 2 mobile and attack minded midfielders around him.

 

Or more balanced midfielders at least.

 

There's a lot wrong with Hearts just now but I'd say we'd benefit from making those changes and also scouring the market for a good wide man too for a strong running midfield to combine with.

 

Good point, our balance isn't right in midfield and don't even mention the left side.

[Mikey1874]

Good point, our balance isn't right in midfield and don't even mention the left side.

Another forward would also give options and create space

[Livvyjambo]

Better days are long gone but as a few say on here maybe a Cb ?

[rudi must stay]

Watt was not managed well at tynecastle, most gifted player ive watched at Hearts.

I agree with this, his ball control was brilliant and he was actually a great passer of the ball. Neilson put him a position most weeks where he was supposed to get wonder goals everyime he got the ball. Didn't like how we dropped him either, that wasn't going to improve his morale. Big missed opportunity there

[Rudy T]

Watt was not managed well at tynecastle, most gifted player ive watched at Hearts.

Not being a wideo but how long have you watched Hearts?

[kila]

Watt was not managed well at tynecastle, most gifted player ive watched at Hearts.

 

 

Poor Watt.

 

Not been managed well at any of the clubs he's been to.

 

Definitely management to blame and not poor Tony.

[A_A wehatethehibs]

I still think he is definitely worth throwing the dice on for next season. Hadn't kicked a ball this season before he got here. He has shown enough to be worth a deal for me.

 

Kitchen + djoum, we could maybe get a combined 1million for the two of them if things go our way. Encourage them to move on, and take the opportunity to balance the Midfield with some new faces.

 

Tziolis should be deployed in 20 games a season and 10-15 from the bench. Same for cowie imo. Everyone keeps pointing to the fact that 2 games out of every 3 these guys go missing. It's because they are playing every game. Similar to giggs and Scholes, the secret to them remaining effective well into their mid to late 30s was keeping them fresh for the games they played, from 32-33 onwards they were not playing anywhere near 40 full games a season. I think that should be how we deploy cowie and tziolis.

[Thomaso]

Its more about the other players not creating space to make themselves available for a pass. Happened a lot yesterday in an otherwise decent performance.

 

Fans then shout at the player with the ball.

 

Our players movement off the ball is shocking!  So many times a player passed a ball and stood there admiring, it rather that bolting forward looking for the return.

[Bazzas right boot]

I still think he is definitely worth throwing the dice on for next season. Hadn't kicked a ball this season before he got here. He has shown enough to be worth a deal for me.

 

Kitchen + djoum, we could maybe get a combined 1million for the two of them if things go our way. Encourage them to move on, and take the opportunity to balance the Midfield with some new faces.

 

Tziolis should be deployed in 20 games a season and 10-15 from the bench. Same for cowie imo. Everyone keeps pointing to the fact that 2 games out of every 3 these guys go missing. It's because they are playing every game. Similar to giggs and Scholes, the secret to them remaining effective well into their mid to late 30s was keeping them fresh for the games they played, from 32-33 onwards they were not playing anywhere near 40 full games a season. I think that should be how we deploy cowie and tziolis.

 

 

Good shout, same could be said for Djoum as well. far too much onus on him and Walker to make things happen. Kitchen, Cowie and Tzolis are hardly going to drive the team forward week in week out.

 

One more attacking midfielder and we'd have a good balance and allow rotation/ rest, Martin can hopefully be that person.

 

Djoum/ Martin

Kitchen/ Tzolis

Cowie/ Bauben

 

Is a decent balance tbh, but lacks pace and drive

 

IMO Tzolis is too slow for our game, but as you say he might just need to get up to speed.