Bazzas right boot Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Bored so thought of this. Wage budget 10 players at ?5k 5 players at ?7k 25 players averaging ?1.5k Total is ?7.7m with 20% added ( for pension an employer NI contribution) As above but at ?4k and ?6k it is ?6.7m. At 60% turnover we would need to be raking in ?11m for option 2. Aberdeen spent ?6.2m last year ( it included staff) and have smaller crowds, no Foundation ( although this doesn't affect wages it means the stand cost isn't coming completely out of our revenue) With wages like these we would be able to get a team that could easily be better than the rest and attract talent from every other team. you could even have a third option ?3k and ?5k or drop the number in the overall squad to pay for better players, say 15 players as apposed to 25 on my average list. Why Can't we, baring in mind 15k + average crowds, increased corporate and no interest on loans and bad debt being paid be doing more. A team even on option 2 would match a team like Rangers paying ?10k give or take on some players. Why are our wages restricted to around ?2-?3k, and going forward will they be for top players around ?5k. The numbers, although basic would suggest we should be. Will we see a difference next season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbomb1958 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Bored so thought of this. Wage budget 10 players at ?5k 5 players at ?7k 25 players averaging ?1.5k Total is ?7.7m with 20% added ( for pension an employer NI contribution) As above but at ?4k and ?6k it is ?6.7m. At 60% turnover we would need to be raking in ?11m for option 2. Aberdeen spent ?6.2m last year ( it included staff) and have smaller crowds, no Foundation ( although this doesn't affect wages it means the stand cost isn't coming completely out of our revenue) With wages like these we would be able to get a team that could easily be better than the rest and attract talent from every other team. you could even have a third option ?3k and ?5k or drop the number in the overall squad to pay for better players, say 15 players as apposed to 25 on my average list. Why Can't we, baring in mind 15k + average crowds, increased corporate and no interest on loans and bad debt being paid be doing more. A team even on option 2 would match a team like Rangers paying ?10k give or take on some players. Why are our wages restricted to around ?2-?3k, and going forward will they be for top players around ?5k. The numbers, although basic would suggest we should be. Will we see a difference next season? We are living within our means lessons have been learned unlike 1 or 2 other clubs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franko1874 Posted March 24, 2017 Share Posted March 24, 2017 Bored so thought of this. Wage budget 10 players at ?5k 5 players at ?7k 25 players averaging ?1.5k Total is ?7.7m with 20% added ( for pension an employer NI contribution) As above but at ?4k and ?6k it is ?6.7m. At 60% turnover we would need to be raking in ?11m for option 2. Aberdeen spent ?6.2m last year ( it included staff) and have smaller crowds, no Foundation ( although this doesn't affect wages it means the stand cost isn't coming completely out of our revenue) With wages like these we would be able to get a team that could easily be better than the rest and attract talent from every other team. you could even have a third option ?3k and ?5k or drop the number in the overall squad to pay for better players, say 15 players as apposed to 25 on my average list. Why Can't we, baring in mind 15k + average crowds, increased corporate and no interest on loans and bad debt being paid be doing more. A team even on option 2 would match a team like Rangers paying ?10k give or take on some players. Why are our wages restricted to around ?2-?3k, and going forward will they be for top players around ?5k. The numbers, although basic would suggest we should be. Will we see a difference next season? Our wage budget will go up, just not at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musemic Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 There is no way we should be even thinking about paying ONE player ?5k or (perish the thought) ?7k per week, never mind the 15 players you propose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 There is no way we should be even thinking about paying ONE player ?5k or (perish the thought) ?7k per week, never mind the 15 players you propose.Why? Surely we will be near the ?11m turnover mark. Aberdeen are there now. Surely no point in being debt free, increasing revenues, to stay the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Dave Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 This is where it all falls down. When you talk about wages vs turnover percentage, you cant just estimate the first team squad.......a significant proportion will be in no particular order..... Ticket office staff Commercial team Security/stewards Hospitality Catering Cleaning Groundsman Genral admin/accountancy General maintenance/grounds keeping Directors fees That will all add up to ?1m plus, potentially ?2m plus per annum. I have no idea of real numbers but certainly not insignificant. Edit...... plus academy costs, coaching etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CollyWolly Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 The OP makes a good if obvious point. Sooner or later we are going to have to spend significantly more money on player wages than we are now to get better players than we currently have. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 This is where it all falls down. When you talk about wages vs turnover percentage, you cant just estimate the first team squad.......a significant proportion will be in no particular order..... Ticket office staff Commercial team Security/stewards Hospitality Catering Cleaning Groundsman Genral admin/accountancy General maintenance/grounds keeping Directors fees That will all add up to ?1m plus, potentially ?2m plus per annum. I have no idea of real numbers but certainly not insignificant. Edit...... plus academy costs, coaching etc Correct. Boredom is a terrible thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Dave Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Why? Surely we will be near the ?11m turnover mark. Aberdeen are there now. Surely no point in being debt free, increasing revenues, to stay the same? There is not a bank in the land who will give us a loan so who will finance the debt? We dont have a very good credit rating right now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Potter Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Bored so thought of this. Wage budget 10 players at ?5k 5 players at ?7k 25 players averaging ?1.5k Total is ?7.7m with 20% added ( for pension an employer NI contribution) As above but at ?4k and ?6k it is ?6.7m. At 60% turnover we would need to be raking in ?11m for option 2. Aberdeen spent ?6.2m last year ( it included staff) and have smaller crowds, no Foundation ( although this doesn't affect wages it means the stand cost isn't coming completely out of our revenue) With wages like these we would be able to get a team that could easily be better than the rest and attract talent from every other team. you could even have a third option ?3k and ?5k or drop the number in the overall squad to pay for better players, say 15 players as apposed to 25 on my average list. Why Can't we, baring in mind 15k + average crowds, increased corporate and no interest on loans and bad debt being paid be doing more. A team even on option 2 would match a team like Rangers paying ?10k give or take on some players. Why are our wages restricted to around ?2-?3k, and going forward will they be for top players around ?5k. The numbers, although basic would suggest we should be. Will we see a difference next season? Players still on very good wages, getting paid for playing a game of football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 This is where it all falls down. When you talk about wages vs turnover percentage, you cant just estimate the first team squad.......a significant proportion will be in no particular order..... Ticket office staff Commercial team Security/stewards Hospitality Catering Cleaning Groundsman Genral admin/accountancy General maintenance/grounds keeping Directors fees That will all add up to ?1m plus, potentially ?2m plus per annum. I have no idea of real numbers but certainly not insignificant. Edit...... plus academy costs, coaching etc So if wages were ?7.5m we'd need to make around 12.5m It's all relative, think Aberdeen made around ?11m so we must be around there at some point soon, if not why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 There is not a bank in the land who will give us a loan so who will finance the debt? We dont have a very good credit rating right now No one mentioned a loan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincon Premier Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Get a decent performance from those we have and the new stand will bring in more money. ( don't have figures but it should be a big increase ) I think everyone knows my stance on getting a better performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 One fact learned from rangers experience is the cost of keeping the lights on....stadium upkeep with existing infrastructure degrading ... X amount each month......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hueyview Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Get a decent performance from those we have and the new stand will bring in more money. ( don't have figures but it should be a big increase ) I think everyone knows my stance on getting a better performance. Not sure how the extra ,3000 seats will be taken up.....from folk in other stands?....,*seeing 17,000 or 18000 as max... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Doody Jambo Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Best way to generate income is to put an attacking team in the park and get to Hampden regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambo1961 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Put the players actual wages up or whats the point of talking about what might be or even is, just drivel then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gigolo-Aunt Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Hopefully a couple of the young lads who signed during the week can make their mark as at least squad players next season - they will not be big earners which you would think would free up wages for potential new recruits. Have said this a few times now but as soon as the Sow money came in we should have been shopping in a different Bosman market for last pre season in bringing in a real quality at Scottish level striker from Europe. A little bit of quality in this league goes a long long way. We signed Sammon instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Why? Surely we will be near the ?11m turnover mark. Aberdeen are there now. Surely no point in being debt free, increasing revenues, to stay the same? Aberdeen's turnover is over 13 million. If we can get similar corporate revenue to them our turnover will be 15 million plus given our crowds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Aberdeen's turnover is over 13 million. If we can get similar corporate revenue to them our turnover will be 15 million plus given our crowds. Our turnover will continue to be stifled if we continue to bottle opportunities to reach latter stages of national cup competitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 We are forking out ?12million for a new stand, once this is paid - we will blow the sheep out of the water .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Our turnover will continue to be stifled if we continue to bottle opportunities to reach latter stages of national cup competitionsTrue. Despite that Aberdeen make far more corporate revenue. It would be interesting to see what Aberdeen make from their shirt sponsorship compared to our Save the Children deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 True. Despite that Aberdeen make far more corporate revenue. It would be interesting to see what Aberdeen make from their shirt sponsorship compared to our Save the Children deal. We've never had a like for like year, all their corporate and retail was in house, turnover higher but so are costs... last year part of the year was in house.. next set of account will be interesting.. also though the lost revenue from our abysmal cup runs are a factor.. once stand paid, we will be well clear not counting the FOH money.. Aberdeen will have to fund their new stadium also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 We've never had a like for like year, all their corporate and retail was in house, turnover higher but so are costs... last year part of the year was in house.. next set of account will be interesting.. also though the lost revenue from our abysmal cup runs are a factor.. once stand paid, we will be well clear not counting the FOH money.. Aberdeen will have to fund their new stadium alsoI didn't realise all of Aberdeen's operations were in house. Our turnover should be well up given our retail and corporate are in house now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Dave Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 No one mentioned a loan. You posted that there is no point in being "debt free". That implies that you must be getting a loan/credit from somewhere. You can spend money you dont have! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1971fozzy Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 There is no way we should be even thinking about paying ONE player ?5k or (perish the thought) ?7k per week, never mind the 15 players you propose. Certainly not until we have a manager and DoF we can trust. Jesus can you imagine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musemic Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 There is no way we should be even thinking about paying ONE player ?5k or (perish the thought) ?7k per week, never mind the 15 players you propose. Why? Surely we will be near the ?11m turnover mark. Aberdeen are there now. Surely no point in being debt free, increasing revenues, to stay the same? Do you honestly think we have players on our staff who are worth that sort of salary? ?5k a week (?250k p.a) ?7k a week (?350k p.a) To play in the SPL?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Do you honestly think we have players on our staff who are worth that sort of salary? ?5k a week (?250k p.a) ?7k a week (?350k p.a) To play in the SPL?? To finish be honest St Johnstone who pay c. ?1k a week. Great value for money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Aberdeen spent ?6.2m last year ( it included staff) and have smaller crowds Not wanting to get into a crowd discussion, but one thing you should be aware of is that Aberdeen announce attendance figures, not seats sold. I've been aware through changing my seats that Aberdeen regularly sell about 2k more than attend. Many have season tickets but are away for work etc. You also maybe need to consider the average price per ticket. The key thing to look for is revenue and expenditure , as that is what ultimately what determines the budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Not wanting to get into a crowd discussion, but one thing you should be aware of is that Aberdeen announce attendance figures, not seats sold. I've been aware through changing my seats that Aberdeen regularly sell about 2k more than attend. Many have season tickets but are away for work etc. You also maybe need to consider the average price per ticket. The key thing to look for is revenue and expenditure , as that is what ultimately what determines the budget. The crowd looked like less than 12.5k last week mate. More like 10k. You are fooling no-one. And ye I was at the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IveSeenTheLight Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 The crowd looked like less than 12.5k last week mate. More like 10k. You are fooling no-one. And ye I was at the game. I'm not trying to fool anyone, just clarifying we announce attendance, not sold seats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zibi Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I'm not trying to fool anyone, just clarifying we announce attendance, not sold seats.Okay. The Dick Donald upper was pretty much shut and the lower of that stamd there were spaces. Loads of gaps in Merkland, Main Stand and South Stand as well as the Hearts end being half full. Yet the sold out figure against Rangers was 19.2k. So say your theory of 2k additional season ticket holders means 14.5k so 4800 empty seats. No chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 To finish be honest St Johnstone who pay c. ?1k a week. Great value for money Or to finish second, depends on how you look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Put the players actual wages up or whats the point of talking about what might be or even is, just drivel then Maybe, but numbers are numbers, looking at Aberdeens total spend, projecting an increase in our revenue its worth a discusion. From my maths, we can get better players give or take. I was being general, appoligies for not being specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 You posted that there is no point in being "debt free". That implies that you must be getting a loan/credit from somewhere. You can spend money you dont have! What,? There is no point in beingdebt free... In my context I meant the money saved from loans/ intereste can be reinvested into the team instead of paying the loans. i.e we are now saving more money and have more to spend as we are not servicing debt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Do you honestly think we have players on our staff who are worth that sort of salary? ?5k a week (?250k p.a) ?7k a week (?350k p.a) To play in the SPL?? If you want to get second, be goodin cup, yes. Anyway a turnover of around ?12-?13m would support that ratio of 60% The question is will our turnover get near there UIguess. Sammon and Osh wages would pay for a ?5/6k player..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preston Jambo Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Neil Lennon has just said that they don't have the budget other teams have had in this division. I'm sure The Rangers had a much bigger budget than them, but was under the impression ours was smaller than theirs the season we won it and given the size of their squad I would imagine the last two seasons it has been bigger than ours was as well. Don't think any other teams have had a budget anywhere near theirs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i wish jj was my dad Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 Hopefully a couple of the young lads who signed during the week can make their mark as at least squad players next season - they will not be big earners which you would think would free up wages for potential new recruits. Have said this a few times now but as soon as the Sow money came in we should have been shopping in a different Bosman market for last pre season in bringing in a real quality at Scottish level striker from Europe. A little bit of quality in this league goes a long long way. We signed Sammon instead. Speculate to accumulate hasn't worked for out for us in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Dave Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 What,? There is no point in beingdebt free... In my context I meant the money saved from loans/ intereste can be reinvested into the team instead of paying the loans. i.e we are now saving more money and have more to spend as we are not servicing debt. Apologies - I misread your post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I'm not trying to fool anyone, just clarifying we announce attendance, not sold seats. So do hearts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazzas right boot Posted March 25, 2017 Author Share Posted March 25, 2017 Apologies - I misread your post Nah bother, thought it was a strange comment. Some folk just got me angry by being so literal, just thought it was interesting and hoping someone would shed some light on income over the next 3 years. My numbers on what i stated, just interesting, even althoughon a modest income of ?12-13m, we can afford around ?7m on wages. Do we have 50 staff on ?3k average or 25 on a ?6k average, simple I know, but the money would seem to be there to pay better wages for some players and distance ourselves from the rest of the league as it would attract better players but also help us keep players and get fees for them as well. hen you think of attracting players from other Scottish teams and keeping them, it would suggest there is a means to do it, the whole point in the new stand, catering in house, etc is to ensure we create far more revenue going forward, with no debt and FoH subs to top everything up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mca Posted March 25, 2017 Share Posted March 25, 2017 I would be very surprised if anyone is on more than ?3k per week. We must live within our means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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