shots fired at westminster

[luckydug]

Yeah, best quit while you're behind mate.

I think it's just the guy he was arguing with could bore for Scotland.

No point in going round and round in circles.

[Unknown user]

just like to show you up for what you are. I hate Zionism for what it has caused throughout the middle east. Your hatred for Muslims shines through in every post. Anyway, no point in discussing anything related to Muslims and Jews with you so bye

I hear you bud, I've blocked the dude myself (very under used feature!).

 

There's no discussing, no conversing, just the incessant banging of an anti muslim drum.

 

There are enough hate preachers in the world, I don't need another in my life.

[Caspian Primrose]

That can't be close to being true. The reaction is nearly as depressing as the murder of innoncent people?

I disagree. The public reaction to this is a major factor as to why we will see this happen, time and time again. Another failed attempt in Belgium the other day.

[AlphonseCapone]

I hear you bud, I've blocked the dude myself (very under used feature!).

 

There's no discussing, no conversing, just the incessant banging of an anti muslim drum.

 

There are enough hate preachers in the world, I don't need another in my life.

That's the thing, switch out Muslims and Islam for infidels and the West in some of the posts and you'd think it came straight from a hate preacher.

[AlphonseCapone]

I disagree. The public reaction to this is a major factor as to why we will see this happen, time and time again. Another failed attempt in Belgium the other day.

What part of the public reaction are meaning specifically?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Why on earth would WhatsApp refuse to hand over the encrypted messages from the terrorist just before he launched his attack?

[AlphonseCapone]

Why on earth would WhatsApp refuse to hand over the encrypted messages from the terrorist just before he launched his attack?

Because they don't have it, they can't hand it over. Messages are encrypted while being sent, which means if they are intercepted then they can't be read, either by whatsapp or the security services. Only the sender and reader have the unencrypted messages.

 

What Amber Rudd wants is for companies like whatsapp to build back doors into the encryption stage.

[Seymour M Hersh]

Because they don't have it, they can't hand it over. Messages are encrypted while being sent, which means if they are intercepted then they can't be read, either by whatsapp or the security services. Only the sender and reader have the unencrypted messages.

 

What Amber Rudd wants is for companies like whatsapp to build back doors into the encryption stage.

 

They've not said that though, they are refusing to hand it over which infers they have access to it.

[AlphonseCapone]

They've not said that though, they are refusing to hand it over which infers they have access to it.

I'm not sure that's the case but I've only read the BBC article. They'd have no choice with a court order at least, the Government can go that route if they have it. I don't know why they wouldn't hand it over tbh.

[Seymour M Hersh]

I'm not sure that's the case but I've only read the BBC article. They'd have no choice with a court order at least, the Government can go that route if they have it. I don't know why they wouldn't hand it over tbh.

 

I've had a read about end to end encryption and it appears you are correct that they cannot access it. I'm a technophobe though and i thought everything put out on the internet was there forever regardless of how much you try and delete it.  Hence the calls for backdoor access to these sites. It's all above my pay grade technology wise! 

[Caspian Primrose]

What part of the public reaction are meaning specifically?

Generally i find the reaction meek, apolegetic even. Sometimes people will justify it because our government dropped bombs on another one of Israels enemies and we deserve it.

 

How long will it go on? What is it going to take?

[luckydug]

Generally i find the reaction meek, apolegetic even. Sometimes people will justify it because our government dropped bombs on another one of Israels enemies and we deserve it.

 

How long will it go on? What is it going to take?

 

What is it going to take for what ?

What do you want to happen ?

[AlphonseCapone]

Generally i find the reaction meek, apolegetic even. Sometimes people will justify it because our government dropped bombs on another one of Israels enemies and we deserve it.

 

How long will it go on? What is it going to take?

What do you want folk to do? Take action themselves?

[Caspian Primrose]

I dont know...but i definitely think more people should merge the flag of the latest country attacked onto their facebook profile pic.

[AlphonseCapone]

I dont know...but i definitely think more people should merge the flag of the latest country attacked onto their facebook profile pic.

Cool but you've no solution. Just moan on JKB. That'll show them.

[John Findlay]

It will be one very clever person who comes up with a solution.

[elvoys]

just like to show you up for what you are. I hate Zionism for what it has caused throughout the middle east. Your hatred for Muslims shines through in every post. Anyway, no point in discussing anything related to Muslims and Jews with you so bye

Israel is the manifestation of Zionism so lets stop using the sneaky byword of the left. Israel is a tiny strip of land on the med. The Middle East is more than the Levant states and Egypt. But there is one thing its creation 'caused' 'throughout' - that is uniting the inherent anti semitism of the region into the mass expulsion of Jews from their ancient homelands.

[elvoys]

That's the thing, switch out Muslims and Islam for infidels and the West in some of the posts and you'd think it came straight from a hate preacher.

Comfy in your ridiculous false equivalence, understand an actual 'hate preacher' wants to ban freedom of speech or kill those that 'insult the prophet' - people like me. I merely criticise the stranglehold that the same awful ideology has over the lives hundreds of millions as well as the cultural sensitivities of your ilk which means action over abhorrences such as fgm is off the table.

 

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Comfy in your ridiculous false equivalence, understand an actual 'hate preacher' wants to ban freedom of speech or kill those that 'insult the prophet' - people like me. I merely criticise the stranglehold that the same awful ideology has over the lives hundreds of millions as well as the cultural sensitivities of your ilk which means action over abhorrences such as fgm is off the table.

 

How is fgm off the table, precisely?

[Unknown user]

Preaching a message of hatred and intolerance = hate preacher.

 

Wanting war with another ideology and spending time trying to convince others = hate preacher.

 

I don't see how it's even debatable tbh.

[XB52]

I think it's just the guy he was arguing with could bore for Scotland.

No point in going round and round in circles.

agree so no more interaction with him from me. In fact I am trying to turn over a new leaf and not argue with anyone anymore on here. I'll maybe post but try really hard not to quote someone who I vehemently disagree with; I'll just post my opinion 

[jack D and coke]

Elvoys is no hate preacher imo. Guy seems very clued up to me on an incredibly backwards and dangerous ideology.

Kind of to be expected these days I guess that people can't really debate with him properly and just want to stick a label on him.

This is how brexits and Donald Trumps happen.

[Unknown user]

Elvoys is no hate preacher imo. Guy seems very clued up to me on an incredibly backwards and dangerous ideology.

Kind of to be expected these days I guess that people can't really debate with him properly and just want to stick a label on him.

This is how brexits and Donald Trumps happen.

He is, that's what the term means.

All he does is try to convince people to hate islam - whether you think it's justified out not, that's preaching hate

[Adam Murray]

Elvoys is no hate preacher imo. Guy seems very clued up to me on an incredibly backwards and dangerous ideology.

Kind of to be expected these days I guess that people can't really debate with him properly and just want to stick a label on him.

This is how brexits and Donald Trumps happen.

 

 

He definitely seems one of the more informed posters on that particular subject on here.

 

I don't see him having an outright hatred of Islam, indeed he has defended those Muslims who have spoken out against the more radical teachings and laws of the Koran, those Muslims whose lives are in danger because they speak out.

[jack D and coke]

He is, that's what the term means.

All he does is try to convince people to hate islam - whether you think it's justified out not, that's preaching hate

I don't see any of his posts as hate preaching. I see people labelling him and attacking him for giving his opinions and experience then when he gives some back he's a racist or a hate preacher. It's to be expected now I suppose that you're just not allowed to question this stuff despite it happening regularly in western countries. We keep apologising and the problem exacerbates.

He's no dafty he can back his opinions up like nobody else I've seen on here.

[jack D and coke]

He definitely seems one of the more informed posters on that particular subject on here.

 

I don't see him having an outright hatred of Islam, indeed he has defended those Muslims who have spoken out against the more radical teachings and laws of the Koran, those Muslims whose lives are in danger because they speak out.

This is pretty much where I'm at.

[Unknown user]

I don't see any of his posts as hate preaching. I see people labelling him and attacking him for giving his opinions and experience then when he gives some back he's a racist or a hate preacher. It's to be expected now I suppose that you're just not allowed to question this stuff despite it happening regularly in western countries. We keep apologising and the problem exacerbates.

He's no dafty he can back his opinions up like nobody else I've seen on here.

I've never called him a racist.

Again, whether you agree with his message or not, he's preaching a message of hate and intolerance towards islam. There's no debate or conversation, just a rain of justification for his anti Islamic zeal.

 

Now that's fine if that's what you want to hear, and fair play to you - don't block him.

But for me, **** that, there are plenty on here who I disagree with but have no interest in blocking.

Anyway, this is going off topic, back to the thread

[jack D and coke]

I've never called him a racist.

Again, whether you agree with his message or not, he's preaching a message of hate and intolerance towards islam. There's no debate or conversation, just a rain of justification for his anti Islamic zeal.

 

Now that's fine if that's what you want to hear, and fair play to you - don't block him.

But for me, **** that, there are plenty on here who I disagree with but have no interest in blocking.

Anyway, this is going off topic, back to the thread

I didn't say you called him a racist just to clear that up[emoji1360]

I like your opinions an all man I like to hear both sides and people's experiences I'm not a one way street on anything tbh I'm up for debates. Sometimes debates get edgy but all for the better as far as I'm concerned. If it doesn't make you react then the opinion isn't worth a toss.

[Frank]

great post. I'm sure all the mad muslamists who have had family and friends murdered by the other religion of peace would also say yay.

An equally great post, appreciate the insight.

[Unknown user]

I didn't say you called him a racist just to clear that up[emoji1360]

I like your opinions an all man I like to hear both sides and people's experiences I'm not a one way street on anything tbh I'm up for debates. Sometimes debates get edgy but all for the better as far as I'm concerned. If it doesn't make you react then the opinion isn't worth a toss.

Fair dos, and I should probably spell this out in case it's not as obvious to others as I think it is.

 

Yes the dude has educated himself, yes he's researched his stuff - but how much time do you think he's put into researching the positive aspects of Islam?

It's so unbalanced, so negative, and that's why I keep reacting to it.

 

But, I get enough angry negativity from day to day life, I have absolutely no desire to get that from jkb too. It's a subject that interests me but I can't be bothered with the downside, and I don't have enough interest in Islam to do an equal amount of research on the positive aspects, just to argue with some dude online. Easier to block the extreme voices and try to listen to the middle of the debate.

[cosanostra]

Easier to block the extreme voices and try to listen to the middle of the debate.

 

That's an excellent point and something that a lot of people on this thread seem unable to do.

There seems to be a massive number of people on the "Islam is a religion of peace" side who are completely unwilling to even contemplate the massive cultural problems that come with Islam.  Saw a new article the other day that compiled a list of 22 majority Muslim countries and in 21 of them, homosexuality was illegal and punishable by imprisonment or death. That's a huge problem. When combined with poverty and questionable Israeli / Western foreign policy, it's not hard to see how violence and extremism are closely linked.  It's an extreme religion and it's teachings are often at odds with our Western values. That much is hard to disagree with.

There also seems to be some who seem to be unable to discuss Islam without jumping in with both feet and sounding hateful, ignorant and racist.

Where's the middle road? Where are the posters that acknowledge the problems we're facing with Islam and don't immediately sound like Donald Trump and want to ban, exclude, persecute and accuse?

It's such a horrendous situation but I can't accept that this is going to be part of our lifestyle forever. I mean awaiting a new, huge atrocity every few months in Europe and the US while the moderates start to look towards extremists for an answer. That can't be it.

If those who are happy to ignore the problems and those who have sinister, racist motives would kindly shut the **** up, maybe those in the middle might just be able to view the situation holistically and start to try and build bridges and work towards a solution. No idea how we'd go about that though.

[Ray Gin]

Saw a new article the other day that compiled a list of 22 majority Muslim countries and in 21 of them, homosexuality was illegal and punishable by imprisonment or death. That's a huge problem. 

 

This isn't exclusive to islam. Christianity has a similar outlook. It took Australia until 1997 to decriminalise homosexuality.

 

The gay rights movement has only made grounds in Western cultures that were traditionally Christian countries due to better education and the rapid decline in religious beliefs over the past 50 years. It's not that Christianity is tolerant of it. It's that people no longer give a **** about Christianity.

[cosanostra]

This isn't exclusive to islam. Christianity has a similar outlook. It took Australia until 1997 to decriminalise homosexuality.

 

The gay rights movement has only made grounds in Western cultures that were traditionally Christian countries due to better education and the rapid decline in religious beliefs over the past 50 years. It's not that Christianity is tolerant of it. It's that people no longer give a **** about Christianity.

 

Yeah, that sounds fair enough.

There are still plenty of African countries that are majority Christian where treatment of homosexuals is just as bad.

We don't have a global problem of African Christian terrorists murdering their way around the globe but your point is certainly valid. 

[Cade]

Yeah, that sounds fair enough.

There are still plenty of African countries that are majority Christian where treatment of homosexuals is just as bad.

We don't have a global problem of African Christian terrorists murdering their way around the globe but your point is certainly valid. 

Many of the child soldier junkie militias across Africa are christian (in name at least)

[cosanostra]

Many of the child soldier junkie militias across Africa are christian (in name at least)

 

Yep.

Mix poverty and religion and you get catastrophe frequently.

[doctor jambo]

Comfy in your ridiculous false equivalence, understand an actual 'hate preacher' wants to ban freedom of speech or kill those that 'insult the prophet' - people like me. I merely criticise the stranglehold that the same awful ideology has over the lives hundreds of millions as well as the cultural sensitivities of your ilk which means action over abhorrences such as fgm is off the table.

 

Its a priority for the police and NHS is FGM

 

But its OK to slice off a wee boys foreskin without consent for no reason, yet no one dares speak out on this

[jack D and coke]

Its a priority for the police and NHS is FGM

 

But its OK to slice off a wee boys foreskin without consent for no reason, yet no one dares speak out on this

Not even remotely similar cmon. And again it's a religious piece of nonsense from another bunch of weirdos.

[Caspian Primrose]

Its a priority for the police and NHS is FGM

 

But its OK to slice off a wee boys foreskin without consent for no reason, yet no one dares speak out on this

Does the rabbi still bite it off or have they done away with that now?

[luckyBatistuta]

It will be one very clever person who comes up with a solution.

Education

[Cade]

Lassie that fell from the bridge during the attack has now died of her injuries.

[John Findlay]

Education

If only.

[luckyBatistuta]

If only.

Obviously not going to happen in our lifetime, but I don't see any other answer to the problem. Some people in this world would want all Muslims and the Islamic faith wiped from the face of the earth, but even if they were to get what they desired, it would only be a matter of time before some started their teachings again. We all just need to look past religion and try to accept others for who they are as an individual and try to live together for the better of our future generations. No matter how many suicide attacks, missiles fired, bombs dropped, and other killings are carried out year after year, the only answer is education as far as I'm concerned.

[John Findlay]

Obviously not going to happen in our lifetime, but I don't see any other answer to the problem. Some people in this world would want all Muslims and the Islamic faith wiped from the face of the earth, but even if they were to get what they desired, it would only be a matter of time before some started their teachings again. We all just need to look past religion and try to accept others for who they are as an individual and try to live together for the better of our future generations. No matter how many suicide attacks, missiles fired, bombs dropped, and other killings are carried out year after year, the only answer is education as far as I'm concerned.

Religion is the excuse. It has nothing to do with religion.

[luckyBatistuta]

Religion is the excuse. It has nothing to do with religion.

Religion is an excuse, but I don't see how you can say that it has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. If it has nothing to do with religion, then what do you think it's about?

[Caspian Primrose]

Religion is an excuse, but I don't see how you can say that it has nothing whatsoever to do with religion. If it has nothing to do with religion, then what do you think it's about?

Their DNA?

[Eldar Hadzimehmedovic]

Their DNA?

Sorry what? They're genetically coded to commit this type of violence?

[Caspian Primrose]

Just being silly

[luckyBatistuta]

Just being silly

Well done, 10/10

[Toggie88]

That's an excellent point and something that a lot of people on this thread seem unable to do.

There seems to be a massive number of people on the "Islam is a religion of peace" side who are completely unwilling to even contemplate the massive cultural problems that come with Islam.  Saw a new article the other day that compiled a list of 22 majority Muslim countries and in 21 of them, homosexuality was illegal and punishable by imprisonment or death. That's a huge problem. When combined with poverty and questionable Israeli / Western foreign policy, it's not hard to see how violence and extremism are closely linked.  It's an extreme religion and it's teachings are often at odds with our Western values. That much is hard to disagree with.

There also seems to be some who seem to be unable to discuss Islam without jumping in with both feet and sounding hateful, ignorant and racist.

Where's the middle road? Where are the posters that acknowledge the problems we're facing with Islam and don't immediately sound like Donald Trump and want to ban, exclude, persecute and accuse?

It's such a horrendous situation but I can't accept that this is going to be part of our lifestyle forever. I mean awaiting a new, huge atrocity every few months in Europe and the US while the moderates start to look towards extremists for an answer. That can't be it.

If those who are happy to ignore the problems and those who have sinister, racist motives would kindly shut the **** up, maybe those in the middle might just be able to view the situation holistically and start to try and build bridges and work towards a solution. No idea how we'd go about that though.

 

A hell of a lot of anti-homosexuality laws are remnants of the British colonial rule. When self-rule/independence was granted much of the legal system which had been instituted remained.

[cosanostra]

A hell of a lot of anti-homosexuality laws are remnants of the British colonial rule. When self-rule/independence was granted much of the legal system which had been instituted remained.

 

In Muslim countries?

Not really. Maybe in some African countries but I think it's more a symptom of poverty, lack of education and extreme religion that cause intolerence. 

The governments would change the laws if there was a will to but there are not that many African and Middle Eastern countries where the majority of people would afford homosexuals equality. 

I'm not convinced that colonial hangover is to blame. Egypt for example, may have been part of the British Empire but it's laws regarding homosexuality are in line with the attitudes of it's people and it's adjacent countries.