kinross jambo Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 sums up most of them on here. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5leiwEiTM and i thought they were their own points of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Oh god!!! Here we go let me see was that from the SNP web page? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 It raises a number of interesting points, thats for sure. I'd agree with a LOT of what the video says, it even points to a couple (ok, lots) of tactics used by i8hibsh and his ilk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Very accurate dipication of tactics used by unionists. I liked the point about how, through youtube etc, the Nationalist message is starting to get through. If you look at any newspaper article relating to anything remotely related to Independence, the comments sections is filled with Nationalist comments. It's not a matter of 'if' we become independent, it's a matter of when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Oh god!!! Here we go let me see was that from the SNP web page? It's not impossible that someone could want independance but doesnt vote SNP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
$ilvery_Moon Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Zzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Bateman Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Unionist Mantra = War is Peace; Freedom is Slavery; Ignorance is Strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Pretty funny how many of those exact tactics posters on here resort to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 It raises a number of interesting points, thats for sure. I'd agree with a LOT of what the video says, it even points to a couple (ok, lots) of tactics used by i8hibsh and his ilk. The pro's for Unionism in that film clip can not be argued Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Very accurate dipication of tactics used by unionists. I liked the point about how, through youtube etc, the Nationalist message is starting to get through. If you look at any newspaper article relating to anything remotely related to Independence, the comments sections is filled with Nationalist comments. It's not a matter of 'if' we become independent, it's a matter of when. Toggie Toggie it took you 39 minutes to reply to this anti - Unionist thread you are letting it slip my little Braveheart warrior! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 The pro's for Unionism in that film clip can not be argued Example... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Pretty funny how many of those exact tactics posters on here resort to. Yes but it is not the Unionists who have come on and posted an extremely cheap and taccy propoganda video Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Toggie Toggie it took you 39 minutes to reply to this anti - Unionist thread you are letting it slip my little Braveheart warrior! Never! Been busy digging through certain comments by a certain opposition leader, when she was a member of a certain internal political group of a party - it makes interesting reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Example... The oil will run out. FACT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 The oil will run out. FACT? So your saying unionism will stop it running out? Hows that an arguement for unionism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Ecks wee dug getting to stay up late tonight methinks!!!!!Down Toggie.You,re a good lapdug. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 The oil will run out. FACT? Are you asking if it's a fact? And how can that be used as an argument for union? It could be used as an argument for Independence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belly Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 The oil will run out. FACT? And that is your arguement for keeping the union, when the oil runs out! so we can sponge of mother england! BTW I haven't seen the film posted u tube doesn't work on works pc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 The worlds most stupid video. It makes out that unionists are ashamed of our culture and forget about all good things that Scotland has done e.g science. Total drivvel To be a Unionist............now take time as it obviously does not sink in.......does not mean you are any less Scottish or any less proud!!! Do you understand this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 The worlds most stupid video. It makes out that unionists are ashamed of our culture and forget about all good things that Scotland has done e.g science. Total drivvel To be a Unionist............now take time as it obviously does not sink in.......does not mean you are any less Scottish or any less proud!!! Do you understand this? Just like you could want independance but still be British and proud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Ecks wee dug getting to stay up late tonight methinks!!!!!Down Toggie.You,re a good lapdug. Going to go to bed soon. Another day of helping our nation progress to independent state tomorrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Seemingly (as told in this insightful and high budget video) I and my fellow unionists rubbish all things Scotland boring yawn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Going to go to bed soon. Another day of helping our nation progress to independent state tomorrow see you on here tomorrow Robert the Bruce, my little Braveheart warrior Mind n dream of that Scottish Utopia, where we are seperated and dissasociated from those nastly English opressors, living (each and every one) in sheer luxury speaking Gaelic and sitting top of the table in the G8(soon to be G9 when big Salmond the chubby crusader gets his way) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 And that is your arguement for keeping the union, when the oil runs out! so we can sponge of mother england!BTW I haven't seen the film posted u tube doesn't work on works pc you don't need to watch it here is the gist Scotland superior geniuses who are forced into third world poverty by the English Unionists are Union jag waving bulldogs and are ashamed to be Scottish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commander Harris Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 The worlds most stupid video. It makes out that unionists are ashamed of our culture and forget about all good things that Scotland has done e.g science. Total drivvel To be a Unionist............now take time as it obviously does not sink in.......does not mean you are any less Scottish or any less proud!!! Do you understand this? that's a decent point actually. I'm no unionist myself but I know many who don't fall into the caricature presented here. They hold their views sincerely and express them without resorting to the cheap tactics described here. The video is in itself a cheap tactic; characterising all unionists in this manner. Instead of highlighting the case for independence, this video resorts to ad hominem nonsense. childish in the extreme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Just like you could want independance but still be British and proud nonsense to want independence means you dont want to be British how can you want it and be proud to be British? To be British means you keep (first and foremost) you can also be first and foremost a proub Scot, Welsh etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
systemx Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Yer no a bad lad Tog.I was as idealist as you at your age.(Except I was a member of the CP)I admire your stance and absolute conviction in what you believe.You will get older and wiser but in the meantime follow the dream.The Scottish people wont be following in my lifetime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 nonsense to want independence means you dont want to be British how can you want it and be proud to be British? To be British means you keep (first and foremost) you can also be first and foremost a proub Scot, Welsh etc because you may believe that Scotland would benefit economically etc. (im not saying that is the case obviously) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 see you on here tomorrow Robert the Bruce, my little Braveheart warrior Mind n dream of that Scottish Utopia, where we are seperated and dissasociated from those nastly English opressors, living (each and every one) in sheer luxury speaking Gaelic and sitting top of the table in the G8(soon to be G9 when big Salmond the chubby crusader gets his way) Sorry, I have got nothing against the English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 that video is rubbish, having studied alot of Scottish History, some of the points it make about history are ignorent. To say Scottish nationalism is not a recent is just plain wrong. Scottish nationalism started to come into place at the begining of the twentifth century. Embracing of Scottish culture happened before that in the victorian age but it was an embrace of Scottish culture in Britain. Yes alot of Scots were not happy at the act of union and there was unhappiness for the next 50 years but it is true that Scotland after that period did embrace itself as Britain so much that most people in Scotland referred to themselves as being from North Britain and the empire was embraced with much enthusisam (and that is the honest truth not some unionist propaganda.) As for rubbishing a scottish hero which is obviously meaning the rubbishing of Braveheart. I think people have to be careful with that. The movie Braveheart is awful. Seriously, maybe its because I am a historian and that movie is about close to the truth as Roman Romanov's AGM speech but I would rather we have movies which told the true stories of Scottish heroes as the real story can be more inspiring and incrediable than some made up nonsense. Such as the battle of Stirling Bridge, Wallaces only major triumph in reality was not really his plan but that of Andrew de Moray who would of been the leader of the scots had he not died in the battle. He is an interesting character, or even Robert the Bruce, Wallace supporters try to demonise him when in what he achieved is more incrediable. If we want heroes for Scotland than tell them truthfully or else we get people who think William Wallace fell in love with a french princess (who in reality was only 3 at the time) or that Robert the Bruce was a coward who only won Bannockburn due to William Wallace. As you can probably tell I support the Union but I am a really proud Scot. I love Scotland but feel Scotland grows with Britain. As for oil, if we ever do become independent and the boundries for who gets what oil is drawn, you'll be amazed that we only get half what people think as the line sepearting the two oil fields would continue on the same angle that the border is at Berwick and head that way towards Nroway and not as most people think go right angles towards Denmark. Found this out when I did a dissertation on whether an independent Scotland could be finanically viable (my outcome was that it was but not at the same level it is now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart Lyon Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 There is always Sir Sean as our latter day Bruce, Wallace or Rob Roy. What puzzles me to an extent is that the SNP wants independence but wants EU membership? Is that not a remarriage of some sorts after a divorce? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cosanostra Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 that video is rubbish, having studied alot of Scottish History, some of the points it make about history are ignorent. To say Scottish nationalism is not a recent is just plain wrong. Scottish nationalism started to come into place at the begining of the twentifth century. Embracing of Scottish culture happened before that in the victorian age but it was an embrace of Scottish culture in Britain. Yes alot of Scots were not happy at the act of union and there was unhappiness for the next 50 years but it is true that Scotland after that period did embrace itself as Britain so much that most people in Scotland referred to themselves as being from North Britain and the empire was embraced with much enthusisam (and that is the honest truth not some unionist propaganda.) As for rubbishing a scottish hero which is obviously meaning the rubbishing of Braveheart. I think people have to be careful with that. The movie Braveheart is awful. Seriously, maybe its because I am a historian and that movie is about close to the truth as Roman Romanov's AGM speech but I would rather we have movies which told the true stories of Scottish heroes as the real story can be more inspiring and incrediable than some made up nonsense. Such as the battle of Stirling Bridge, Wallaces only major triumph in reality was not really his plan but that of Andrew de Moray who would of been the leader of the scots had he not died in the battle. He is an interesting character, or even Robert the Bruce, Wallace supporters try to demonise him when in what he achieved is more incrediable. If we want heroes for Scotland than tell them truthfully or else we get people who think William Wallace fell in love with a french princess (who in reality was only 3 at the time) or that Robert the Bruce was a coward who only won Bannockburn due to William Wallace. As you can probably tell I support the Union but I am a really proud Scot. I love Scotland but feel Scotland grows with Britain. As for oil, if we ever do become independent and the boundries for who gets what oil is drawn, you'll be amazed that we only get half what people think as the line sepearting the two oil fields would continue on the same angle that the border is at Berwick and head that way towards Nroway and not as most people think go right angles towards Denmark. Found this out when I did a dissertation on whether an independent Scotland could be finanically viable (my outcome was that it was but not at the same level it is now.) No, i don't think it means that at all. It means the rubbishing of Scottish history by allowing it to be made into lame, fictitious pap like Braveheart and tartan short bread tins etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 If you look at any newspaper article relating to anything remotely related to Independence, the comments sections is filled with Nationalist comments. Spoiled children also tend to shout loudest. Some people on here seem to think being a Unionist is un-trendy and/or a badge of shame. I'm a Unionist and proud of it so the Brigadoon Brigade can gtf as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coppercrutch Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 "how to be a unionist".... Simple - Be in possesion of a brain. Not difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Yer no a bad lad Tog.I was as idealist as you at your age.(Except I was a member of the CP)I admire your stance and absolute conviction in what you believe.You will get older and wiser but in the meantime follow the dream.The Scottish people wont be following in my lifetime. Toggie and I lock horns at every available opportunity, we are Polesapart politically but he is like me in many ways. He is passionate about politics and wants his point to be known. I respect the chap. Could not disagree more with him however Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Sorry, I have got nothing against the English. Why do Nat's have the biggest problem with being called British but no problem being called European? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 that video is rubbish, having studied alot of Scottish History, some of the points it make about history are ignorent. To say Scottish nationalism is not a recent is just plain wrong. Scottish nationalism started to come into place at the begining of the twentifth century. Embracing of Scottish culture happened before that in the victorian age but it was an embrace of Scottish culture in Britain. Yes alot of Scots were not happy at the act of union and there was unhappiness for the next 50 years but it is true that Scotland after that period did embrace itself as Britain so much that most people in Scotland referred to themselves as being from North Britain and the empire was embraced with much enthusisam (and that is the honest truth not some unionist propaganda.) As for rubbishing a scottish hero which is obviously meaning the rubbishing of Braveheart. I think people have to be careful with that. The movie Braveheart is awful. Seriously, maybe its because I am a historian and that movie is about close to the truth as Roman Romanov's AGM speech but I would rather we have movies which told the true stories of Scottish heroes as the real story can be more inspiring and incrediable than some made up nonsense. Such as the battle of Stirling Bridge, Wallaces only major triumph in reality was not really his plan but that of Andrew de Moray who would of been the leader of the scots had he not died in the battle. He is an interesting character, or even Robert the Bruce, Wallace supporters try to demonise him when in what he achieved is more incrediable. If we want heroes for Scotland than tell them truthfully or else we get people who think William Wallace fell in love with a french princess (who in reality was only 3 at the time) or that Robert the Bruce was a coward who only won Bannockburn due to William Wallace. As you can probably tell I support the Union but I am a really proud Scot. I love Scotland but feel Scotland grows with Britain. As for oil, if we ever do become independent and the boundries for who gets what oil is drawn, you'll be amazed that we only get half what people think as the line sepearting the two oil fields would continue on the same angle that the border is at Berwick and head that way towards Nroway and not as most people think go right angles towards Denmark. Found this out when I did a dissertation on whether an independent Scotland could be finanically viable (my outcome was that it was but not at the same level it is now.) I tip my hat to you Sir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 No, i don't think it means that at all.It means the rubbishing of Scottish history by allowing it to be made into lame, fictitious pap like Braveheart and tartan short bread tins etc I don't rubbish it I just think Nat's glorify it and exaggerate it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IronJambo Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 what a pathetic piece of propoganda. especially liked the mention of Scottish news being regional and being done in an amatuer fashion. surely if the regional news in Scotland is amatuer then its the fault of STV, Grampian, and BBC Scotland. no? Why not blame the english though, eh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Toggie and I lock horns at every available opportunity, we are Polesapart politically but he is like me in many ways. He is passionate about politics and wants his point to be known. I respect the chap. Could not disagree more with him however We also both aspire to, one day, pumping Amy MacDonald... at different times like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Why do Nat's have the biggest problem with being called British but no problem being called European? Can't speak for all Scottish Nationalists, but I would have to say that Europe is a union of equals. Britain is not. Sovereignty lies with the member states, those nations can opt out if they wish. In the Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and Kingdom of England, this is not the case. Sovereignty is held solely by London. Yes devolution has granted power, but absolute power still lies in Westminster, and any power given to any devolved institution can be overturned by Westminster. The two Unions are very different is what I am getting at. The connotations of being 'European' and 'British' are also both very different. British is also seen as your nationality - I'm not British, I'm Scottish. Being Euoprean on the otherhand is more about the geographical area of Europe - You can be European without being a member of EU. I don't think anyone would argue that the Swiss are Europeans, or the Norwegians...or the Andorrans. What I'm getting at is that being European is not about sovereignty, it's about geography. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 "how to be a unionist".... Simple - Be in possesion of a brain. Then damage as much brain cells as possible. Not difficult. Very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivan Drago Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We also both aspire to, one day, pumping Amy MacDonald... at different times like. Apparently she's pumping Steve/Stuart Lovell (the aberdeen striker) I've went off her slightly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Therapist Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 absolute power still lies in Westminster Thank God for that. The SNP "government" is making a right pigs ear of the limited powers they have. I'm not British, I'm Scottish. Check your passport. Taking it a stage further, if you get into bother abroad, try getting help from a Scottish Embassy/Consulate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The People's Chimp Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 I watched about ten seconds of the video. It's pretty poor. And quite indicative of the current tactics embraced by the nationalsits. teams of cyber warriors sitting on websites all day leaving comments about the inevitability of independence or just how good a job salmond is doing, or revelling in a new headline grabbing announcement which, in all probability will never go beyond that. So now they've moved on to youtube. Great. It's basically a more savvy and much more insiduous version of webcameron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Can't speak for all Scottish Nationalists, but I would have to say that Europe is a union of equals. Britain is not. Sovereignty lies with the member states, those nations can opt out if they wish. In the Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and Kingdom of England, this is not the case. Equals? No Some are far more equal than others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest S.U.S.S. Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Toggie and I lock horns at every available opportunity, we are Polesapart politically but he is like me in many ways. He is passionate about politics and wants his point to be known. I respect the chap. Could not disagree more with him however Perhaps you are alike, both know how to copy and paste and can turn ANY thread into a political thread. But, where you differ is i like toggie. Only kidding I8! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacDonald Jardine Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Can't speak for all Scottish Nationalists, but I would have to say that Europe is a union of equals. Britain is not. Sovereignty lies with the member states, those nations can opt out if they wish. In the Union between the Kingdom of Scotland and Kingdom of England, this is not the case. Sovereignty is held solely by London. Yes devolution has granted power, but absolute power still lies in Westminster, and any power given to any devolved institution can be overturned by Westminster. The two Unions are very different is what I am getting at. The connotations of being 'European' and 'British' are also both very different. British is also seen as your nationality - I'm not British, I'm Scottish. Being Euoprean on the otherhand is more about the geographical area of Europe - You can be European without being a member of EU. I don't think anyone would argue that the Swiss are Europeans, or the Norwegians...or the Andorrans. What I'm getting at is that being European is not about sovereignty, it's about geography. You have to be kidding. Do you really think nasty England opresses the smaller British countries while certain countries don't have more influence in Brussels? What if Ireland and Poland disagreed with Germany and France? I know who my money would be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 We also both aspire to, one day, pumping Amy MacDonald... at different times like. No fancy tag team likes? High 5's an aw that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toggie88 Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 You have to be kidding.Do you really think nasty England opresses the smaller British countries while certain countries don't have more influence in Brussels? What if Ireland and Poland disagreed with Germany and France? I know who my money would be on. Well today is a perfect examply. Ireland has disagreed with every other member. What happens? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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