Even More SNP Nonsense

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Ministry MK2 said:

Powerful message.

Aye

[ri Alban]

3 hours ago, Ministry MK2 said:

I doubt wee Nikki is bandwagonning on an issue. 

 

On a seperate note, how are that Syrian refugee family she invited into her home getting on?

Aye

[Bazzas right boot]

nonsense but has a  few valid  few points.

 

 

 

Edited July 22, 2018 by WeeChuck'sHeed

[ri Alban]

37 minutes ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

nonsense but has a  few valid  few points.

 

 

 

What's nonsense? 

[Bazzas right boot]

Just now, ri Alban said:

What's nonsense? 

 

 

SNP nonsense.

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

 

SNP nonsense.

Like? 

[jambo lodge]

In the Times today the SNP tries to defend the worst voting record of its MPs at Westminster. Motherwell MP voted in less than half the divisions in parliament. Mhairi Black, once again, has one of the worst records.  Scottish Tories had the best record voting in over 90% of divisions.

[The Real Maroonblood]

1 hour ago, jambo lodge said:

In the Times today the SNP tries to defend the worst voting record of its MPs at Westminster. Motherwell MP voted in less than half the divisions in parliament. Mhairi Black, once again, has one of the worst records.  Scottish Tories had the best record voting in over 90% of divisions.

[ri Alban]

I hope this gender policy for weans is some sort of sick joke.

I'm starting to get a bit sick of  NS. I think she likes being FM too much (My Mrs called it right at the start) and seems more interested in the remain voters. She better get her finger out, or the Greens will  have my vote, next time. 

 

Time the GLS made a come back and sorted this ship out. 

[ri Alban]

On 22/07/2018 at 10:09, jambo lodge said:

In the Times today the SNP tries to defend the worst voting record of its MPs at Westminster. Motherwell MP voted in less than half the divisions in parliament. Mhairi Black, once again, has one of the worst records.  Scottish Tories had the best record voting in over 90% of divisions.

Scots Tories voting on English matters. Oh dear. 

[Francis Albert]

Living daan saarf I hadn't noticed that the SNP use the "Yes we can" slogan popularised by Bob the Builder and Barack Obama (although I believe SNP have a Hibsesque clam to be the first),

 

Let's hope Perfidious Albion doesn't change the Indyref2 question to "Do you want Scotland to remain part of the Union?" 

[ri Alban]

37 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

Living daan saarf I hadn't noticed that the SNP use the "Yes we can" slogan popularised by Bob the Builder and Barack Obama (although I believe SNP have a Hibsesque clam to be the first),

 

Let's hope Perfidious Albion doesn't change the Indyref2 question to "Do you want Scotland to remain part of the Union?" 

Do you agree indyref2 should be on Euref terms. 

Euref, only residents UK born allowed to vote. EU citizens excluded. 

Indyref2 the whole Scottish electorate allowed to vote. rUK, EU and RoW included. 

indyref2 only resident Scottish born allowed to vote. rUK, EU and RoW excluded. 

 

 

Only fair! 

 

 

 

 

Oh and let's hope they do. It might open some Scotbrit fantasists eyes on this so called one way dislike. 

 

Edited August 19, 2018 by ri Alban

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

Do you agree indyref2 should be on Euref terms. 

Euref, only residents UK born allowed to vote. EU citizens excluded. 

Indyref2 the whole Scottish electorate allowed to vote. rUK, EU and RoW included. 

indyref2 only resident Scottish born allowed to vote. rUK, EU and RoW excluded. 

 

 

Only fair! 

 

 

It was wrong to allow foreign nationals to vote in the Indyref imo. They have no idea what they were voting for. Scots living abroad had more right to vote than them for me. 

If there’s another it should be Scots only. 

[ri Alban]

1 minute ago, jack D and coke said:

It was wrong to allow foreign nationals to vote in the Indyref imo. They have no idea what they were voting for. Scots living abroad had more right to vote than them for me. 

If there’s another it should be Scots only. 

If I leave permanently I'd expect to lose my voting rights. If I'm working abroad I'd expect to retain my vote. 

[jack D and coke]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

If I leave permanently I'd expect to lose my voting rights. If I'm working abroad I'd expect to retain my vote. 

Yeah that’s fair enough man. I meant I think Scots living abroad had more right to a vote than say a pole living here. It’s a hugely emotional vote that foreign people have no idea about for me. 

[ri Alban]

3 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Yeah that’s fair enough man. I meant I think Scots living abroad had more right to a vote than say a pole living here. It’s a hugely emotional vote that foreign people have no idea about for me. 

? Especially Brits.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

?? How do get rid of these I pressed thumbs up and the screen froze and these appeared. I can’t delete them. 

Edited August 19, 2018 by ri Alban

[SwindonJambo]

2 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

It was wrong to allow foreign nationals to vote in the Indyref imo. They have no idea what they were voting for. Scots living abroad had more right to vote than them for me. 

If there’s another it should be Scots only. 

 

How would you define a Scot though? For all electoral purposes it’s any U.K. national permanently domiciled in Scotland. There are lots people born elsewhere in the U.K. and, indeed the World who have permanently settled in Scotland and lived there for decades. There are also people born to Scottish parents who might just happen to have been temporarily  living outside Scotland at the time of their birth. The simplest definition would be any U.K. national permanently resident in Scotland as anything else gets messy and complicated.

 

I fully accept my own inability to vote though and think it’s fair enough.

[ri Alban]

22 minutes ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

How would you define a Scot though? For all electoral purposes it’s any U.K. national permanently domiciled in Scotland. There are lots people born elsewhere in the U.K. and, indeed the World who have permanently settled in Scotland and lived there for decades. There are also people born to Scottish parents who might just happen to have been temporarily  living outside Scotland at the time of their birth. The simplest definition would be any U.K. national permanently resident in Scotland as anything else gets messy and complicated.

 

I fully accept my own inability to vote though and think it’s fair enough.

Easy enough when the EU ref was held. 

[Gorgiewave]

On 20/07/2018 at 16:03, WeeChuck'sHeed said:

 

I visited my cousin and her new baby yesterday and saw the baby box. She lives in a gleaming new house that cost her about £0.25 m and her husband will be paying the mortgage and everything else out of his salary. The money spent on the baby box was a complete waste.

[SwindonJambo]

5 minutes ago, ri Alban said:

Easy enough when the EU ref was held. 

 

So that'll be all UK nationals permanently resident in Scotland regardless of place of birth or parentage.

 

Which to me is fair. Anything else opens a huge can of worms.

[ri Alban]

Just now, SwindonJambo said:

 

So that'll be all UK nationals permanently resident in Scotland regardless of place of birth or parentage.

 

Which to me is fair. Anything else opens a huge can of worms.

No, Scots born. End of. If its good enough to bar Europeans on Brexit, it's good enough to bar the Irish, Welsh and English from Indyref2. 

[SwindonJambo]

1 minute ago, ri Alban said:

No, Scots born. End of. If its good enough to bar Europeans on Brexit, it's good enough to bar the Irish, Welsh and English from Indyref2. 

 

Absolutely ridiculous. So a person born outside Scotland to Scottish parents and a resident since 6 months old, would have no vote? And what about those born in Scotland and spend most of their lives elsewhere before returning for retirement?

 

Try getting that one past the international election watchdogs. The country would be a laughing stock. 

[Francis Albert]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Do you agree indyref2 should be on Euref terms. 

Euref, only residents UK born allowed to vote. EU citizens excluded. 

Indyref2 the whole Scottish electorate allowed to vote. rUK, EU and RoW included. 

indyref2 only resident Scottish born allowed to vote. rUK, EU and RoW excluded. 

 

 

Only fair! 

 

 

 

 

Oh and let's hope they do. It might open some Scotbrit fantasists eyes on this so called one way dislike. 

 

You mean Indyref1 in your first example.

 

The problem is that at present there is no such thing as  Scottish citizenship. To confine voting rights to those born in Scotland is more restrictive than confining it to "Scottish citizens" if such a thing existed, which would surely include the offspring of Scottish parents who happened to be outside Scotland when they were born.

 

Anyway the sort of restrictive voting you suggest would surely run counter to the SNP's view of Scotland as a richly diversified country welcoming all. Should those Syrian refugees living with Nicola really be denied a vote? Especially since their gratitude would surely make them sure fire Indy supporters.

[The Real Maroonblood]

4 hours ago, jack D and coke said:

It was wrong to allow foreign nationals to vote in the Indyref imo. They have no idea what they were voting for. Scots living abroad had more right to vote than them for me. 

If there’s another it should be Scots only. 

Good post.

It was certainly a huge mistake that the 

Government made.

[Thunderstruck]

44 minutes ago, Francis Albert said:

You mean Indyref1 in your first example.

 

The problem is that at present there is no such thing as  Scottish citizenship. To confine voting rights to those born in Scotland is more restrictive than confining it to "Scottish citizens" if such a thing existed, which would surely include the offspring of Scottish parents who happened to be outside Scotland when they were born.

 

Anyway the sort of restrictive voting you suggest would surely run counter to the SNP's view of Scotland as a richly diversified country welcoming all. Should those Syrian refugees living with Nicola really be denied a vote? Especially since their gratitude would surely make them sure fire Indy supporters.

 

The Scottish Government has recently concluded a consultation on electoral reform. That consultation included a question on the appropriateness of extending the right to register to all persons (over 16) living in Scotland.

 

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/consultation-electoral-reform/pages/5/

 

To put the numbers in context, the Registers published last December contained 4,121,140 electors eligible to vote in Local Govt and Scottish elections (the widest franchise). These were UK, Irish, Commonwealth and EU citizens but the total excluded 12,790 Overseas Electors who can only vote at Westminster and EU Elections.

 

One of the largest (perhaps the largest) group of non-U.K. citizens are EU citizens resident in Scotland - they accounted for a grand total of 124,973 at the same date. Not a huge number in the overall scheme of things. 

 

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/electoral-stats/1-dec-2017/electoral-stats-17-tab-1.pdf

 

 

[Arnold Rothstein]

3 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

I visited my cousin and her new baby yesterday and saw the baby box. She lives in a gleaming new house that cost her about £0.25 m and her husband will be paying the mortgage and everything else out of his salary. The money spent on the baby box was a complete waste.

 

What a very odd way to describe a fairly modestly priced house.....

[Arnold Rothstein]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

No, Scots born. End of. If its good enough to bar Europeans on Brexit, it's good enough to bar the Irish, Welsh and English from Indyref2. 

 

On what possibly basis would that make sense?

[SwindonJambo]

20 minutes ago, Arnold Rothstein said:

 

What a very odd way to describe a fairly modestly priced house.....

Depends where it is. That still gets you quite a lot in some places. The 'gleaming' bit might just mean it's brand new.

[Francis Albert]

2 hours ago, Thunderstruck said:

 

The Scottish Government has recently concluded a consultation on electoral reform. That consultation included a question on the appropriateness of extending the right to register to all persons (over 16) living in Scotland.

 

https://beta.gov.scot/publications/consultation-electoral-reform/pages/5/

 

To put the numbers in context, the Registers published last December contained 4,121,140 electors eligible to vote in Local Govt and Scottish elections (the widest franchise). These were UK, Irish, Commonwealth and EU citizens but the total excluded 12,790 Overseas Electors who can only vote at Westminster and EU Elections.

 

One of the largest (perhaps the largest) group of non-U.K. citizens are EU citizens resident in Scotland - they accounted for a grand total of 124,973 at the same date. Not a huge number in the overall scheme of things. 

 

https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/files//statistics/electoral-stats/1-dec-2017/electoral-stats-17-tab-1.pdf

 

 

I think what concerns ri Alban and others is the much larger group of non-Scots resident in Scotland - the English. Like the Catalans with their large Spanish population, the popularity of Scotland as a place of residence and employment (ironically in part due to some SNP policies) for the English is a bit of an obstacle to securing a majority for independence.

[ri Alban]

11 hours ago, SwindonJambo said:

 

Absolutely ridiculous. So a person born outside Scotland to Scottish parents and a resident since 6 months old, would have no vote? And what about those born in Scotland and spend most of their lives elsewhere before returning for retirement?

 

Try getting that one past the international election watchdogs. The country would be a laughing stock. 

How did the UK government cope? 

[ri Alban]

8 hours ago, Arnold Rothstein said:

 

On what possibly basis would that make sense?

Why did the UK bar EU citizens, Arnie? And why is that deemed OK, but this is impossible. 

[ri Alban]

7 hours ago, Francis Albert said:

I think what concerns ri Alban and others is the much larger group of non-Scots resident in Scotland - the English. Like the Catalans with their large Spanish population, the popularity of Scotland as a place of residence and employment (ironically in part due to some SNP policies) for the English is a bit of an obstacle to securing a majority for independence.

EU and ruk no votes won you your union. Scots only would win me my country back. Quite simple. If EU citizens resident in the UK had voted at the EU ref. Remain would've have won, easily. Which isn't fair, is it. 

[SwindonJambo]

1 hour ago, ri Alban said:

EU and ruk no votes won you your union. Scots only would win me my country back. Quite simple. If EU citizens resident in the UK had voted at the EU ref. Remain would've have won, easily. Which isn't fair, is it. 

 

That's based on citizenship, which is clearly defined and documented. There's no such thing as Scottish Citizenship so some form of Notional Scottish Citizenship would have to be agreed and that would be a huge debate in itself. Place of birth is far too blunt. There are many people who live in Scotland and identify as Scots but were born elsewhere who'd be excluded. I have 2 cousins, born in Canada to Scots parents but returned as infants and haven't left again.

 

I really don't think it can ever be anything other than UK citizens resident in Scotland. You could have a qualifying minimum period of residence I suppose. It also sends out the wrong message about Scotland being a welcoming and inclusive place.

[Ministry MK2]

12 hours ago, Arnold Rothstein said:

 

What a very odd way to describe a fairly modestly priced house.....

Thats what I thought as well. If she lives in Edinburgh she certainly wasn’t getting a “gleaming new house” for £250k

[i8hibsh]

Really wish Scottish Nationalists would stop referring to shit in the SNP manifesto as ****ing free. True, it is free for many of their 'gimmie gimmie gimmie I want mair' voters, it is not free for the majority. We work our arses off to provide it. Nothing is free in life, someone somewhere is footing the bill, trust me on this.  If you actually believe prescriptions etc are free you are a ****ing imbecile.

 

It is safe to say those who strive in life and are a huge success will generally not be SNP voters. The SNP tax the shit out of these people and throw money at their actual voters to keep the utopian myth alive. It is all a complete and utter ****ing scam.

 

 

[i8hibsh]

3 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Why did the UK bar EU citizens, Arnie? And why is that deemed OK, but this is impossible. 

 

When did this happen?

[AlimOzturk]

7 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

Really wish Scottish Nationalists would stop referring to shit in the SNP manifesto as ****ing free. True, it is free for many of their 'gimmie gimmie gimmie I want mair' voters, it is not free for the majority. We work our arses off to provide it. Nothing is free in life, someone somewhere is footing the bill, trust me on this.  If you actually believe prescriptions etc are free you are a ****ing imbecile.

 

It is safe to say those who strive in life and are a huge success will generally not be SNP voters. The SNP tax the shit out of these people and throw money at their actual voters to keep the utopian myth alive. It is all a complete and utter ****ing scam.

 

 

 

Honestly don't mind paying tax for prescriptions, the NHS, eye tests, glasses and care when I am decrepit old fart. I think it works and I feel lucky to live in a society (unlike America and England soon) where I don't have to beg insurance companies to fund my health care.  And that I won't have to bankrupt myself to put my laddie through college and University if he decides that's what he want. 

 

Of course everything has to be paid for. We pay for it. 

Edited August 20, 2018 by AlimOzturk

[i8hibsh]

2 minutes ago, AlimOzturk said:

 

Honestly don't mind paying tax for prescriptions, the NHS, eye tests, glasses and care when I am decrepit old fart. I think it works and I feel lucky to live in a society (unlike America and England soon) where I don't have to beg insurance companies to fund my health care.  And that I won't have to bankrupt myself to put my laddie through college and University if he decides that's what he want. 

 

Of course everything has to be paid for. We pay for it. 

 

I love paying taxes and doing my bit. It therefore angers me (i8 you say...shock) when it gets classed as 'free shit'. It is the fruit of hard labour.

[Ministry MK2]

3 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

I love paying taxes and doing my bit. It therefore angers me (i8 you say...shock) when it gets classed as 'free shit'. It is the fruit of hard labour.

I thought I saw you say in another thread you work for Public Sector/Government??

[i8hibsh]

33 minutes ago, Ministry MK2 said:

I thought I saw you say in another thread you work for Public Sector/Government??

 

 

Nah, not me man.  Multi-national bank all my career.

[Thunderstruck]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

EU and ruk no votes won you your union. Scots only would win me my country back. Quite simple. If EU citizens resident in the UK had voted at the EU ref. Remain would've have won, easily. Which isn't fair, is it. 

 

Perhaps it was the large percentage of SNP “Leave” voters that swung the vote. If that was for reasons other than the U.K. leaving the EU, would that be fair?

 

So that we can be clear, would you exclude your wife from voting in a Scottish Referendum given her Canadian origins?

[Francis Albert]

50 minutes ago, Ministry MK2 said:

I thought I saw you say in another thread you work for Public Sector/Government??

You are wrong apparently. But what out of interest was the relevance? Don't doctors, nurses, teachers, policemen, firemen etc  work hard (well at least most of them as hard as most private sector workers) and pay taxes?

[Arnold Rothstein]

4 hours ago, ri Alban said:

Why did the UK bar EU citizens, Arnie? And why is that deemed OK, but this is impossible. 

 

I didn’t agree with that either aussie. Voting eligibility should be based on residency. Some ex pat Scot who hasn’t set foot in the country for years should not have a say on independence IMO. 

[jack D and coke]

31 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Nah, not me man.  Multi-national bank all my career.

A multi national bank that had to be saved by the tax payer? 

[Ministry MK2]

1 hour ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Nah, not me man.  Multi-national bank all my career.

Ah ok, must have been thinking of someone else. Thought you worked for HMRC for some reason.

[Ministry MK2]

35 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

A multi national bank that had to be saved by the tax payer? 

Probably, hopefully he doesn’t work for that basket case RBS.

[i8hibsh]

1 hour ago, jack D and coke said:

A multi national bank that had to be saved by the tax payer? 

 

 

Not my one

 

 

 

[jack D and coke]

41 minutes ago, i8hibsh said:

 

 

Not my one

 

 

 

Maybe one that was fined for knowingly laundering Mexican drug cartel money then?  

End of the day taxpayers bailed out the entire world economy and paid the price through austerity etc. Some disabled people had their benefits cut to help pay these banks too. 

Basically my point is socialism for banks is ok but not for individual people who might need some pills for their ailments?

[i8hibsh]

4 minutes ago, jack D and coke said:

Maybe one that was fined for knowingly laundering Mexican drug cartel money then?  

End of the day taxpayers bailed out the entire world economy and paid the price through austerity etc. Some disabled people had their benefits cut to help pay these banks too. 

Basically my point is socialism for banks is ok but not for individual people who might need some pills for their ailments?

 

We have certainly had our fair share of fines, all deserved.

 

Yup banks have shafted us but they are bigger than pretty much everything on the planet and are untouchable.

 

23% of the entire world’s workforce are employed in the banking industry.  Capitalism creates jobs and always will regardless how you feel about it.

 

I’ve got quite a few socialist ideals but I just can’t see past the opportunity that capitalism brings.

[XB52]

20 hours ago, Gorgiewave said:

 

I visited my cousin and her new baby yesterday and saw the baby box. She lives in a gleaming new house that cost her about £0.25 m and her husband will be paying the mortgage and everything else out of his salary. The money spent on the baby box was a complete waste.

So why did your rich, cousin ask for a baby box then?? Typical tory scrounger