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Stephane Grappelli

SNP MP Natalie McGarry

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Stephane Grappelli

Has been charged over fraud allegations.

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Dusk_Till_Dawn

The stampede as the SNP rushes to disown her and pretend she never existed.

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Mikey1874

Needs to get some advice on finances from Donald Trump

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Chester™

The stampede as the SNP rushes to disown her and pretend she never existed.

 

So, pretty much the same as every political party then? :lol:

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Mikey1874

Not the SNP's fault

 

But they have probably updated their checks on future candidates

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Chester™

Not the SNP's fault

 

But they have probably updated their checks on future candidates

 

They should have completely vetted her before letting her stand for selection. Absolute amateur error.

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AlphonseCapone

They should have completely vetted her before letting her stand for selection. Absolute amateur error.

Was this or something else known beforehand?

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Cade

Stealing from a charitable campaign group is a particularly low act.

 

Could be a tight by-election.

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Politbordeaux

IF true I'm disappointed in the extreme.

As much as I'm keen to see an independent Scotland, any negative publicity like this will damage the cause itself.

For someone to allegedly put their own financial needs above that is breath-taking in this context.

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JamboX2

The stampede as the SNP rushes to disown her and pretend she never existed.

Happened a long time to go. By-election on the cards. Big test for Labour.

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JamboX2

Not the SNP's fault

 

But they have probably updated their checks on future candidates

I don't know. This has been an ongoing for a while... Bill Butler, McGarry and Thomson. Suggests not a great deal of vetting (in Butler's case they were warned about his past).

 

All party's have this issue though - Eric Joyce, Lord Watson...

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Seymour M Hersh

Needs to get some advice on finances from Donald Trump

 

Or Shillary.

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Seymour M Hersh

Would.

 

She's a munter and that's being kind. Beyond a 3 bagger probably a hyena!

Edited by Seymour M Hersh

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TheOak88

She's a munter and that's being kind. Beyond a 3 bagger probably a hyena!

She's got money though....... allegedly

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HaymarketJambo

Happened a long time to go. By-election on the cards. Big test for Labour.

 

This.

 

Also a big test for the SNP, but I saw a poll that showed SNP on 50% and Labour in 3rd with 16% for the Westminster elections? 

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JamboX2

This.

 

Also a big test for the SNP, but I saw a poll that showed SNP on 50% and Labour in 3rd with 16% for the Westminster elections?

By-elections generally don't reflect national polling. I'd predict that Labour will throw the kitchen sink at the seat. Probably result in an SNP win though.

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HaymarketJambo

By-elections generally don't reflect national polling. I'd predict that Labour will throw the kitchen sink at the seat. Probably result in an SNP win though.

 

I agree

 

Only because Labour have Corbyn and his other chronie McDonnell along with their Scottish Leader Dugdale Labour in charge otherwise Labour GAIN from the SNP?

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JamboX2

I agree

 

Only because Labour have Corbyn and his other chronie McDonnell along with their Scottish Leader Dugdale Labour in charge otherwise Labour GAIN from the SNP?

It'll be close. And Corbyn doesn't poll well up here but McGarry was synonymous with the Yes movement and the SNP rise. So may count against them.

 

Labour need to put their best Glasgow candidate up for this. Ignore if they're Corbyn or not. Ignore divisions. Fight for that seat like hell imo.

 

A foothold is necessary to take the fight back.

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Craig_

Would.

 

Good man. Disappointed it took 12 posts. This place is going downhill!

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grumpyjambo

Would.

 

Me too!

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Gorgiewave

286F6DB100000578-3463994-Suspended_McGar

 

Wouldn't. Would.

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Gorgiewave

By-elections generally don't reflect national polling. I'd predict that Labour will throw the kitchen sink at the seat. Probably result in an SNP win though.

 

Do you have any idea of who the candidates will be?

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HaymarketJambo

It'll be close. And Corbyn doesn't poll well up here but McGarry was synonymous with the Yes movement and the SNP rise. So may count against them.

 

Labour need to put their best Glasgow candidate up for this. Ignore if they're Corbyn or not. Ignore divisions. Fight for that seat like hell imo.

 

A foothold is necessary to take the fight back.

 

Remember JamboX2 Glasgow voted Yes, (Yes city)

 

And likewise for the SNP a strong candidate, but NOT me. LOL  

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coconut doug

I don't know. This has been an ongoing for a while... Bill Butler, McGarry and Thomson. Suggests not a great deal of vetting (in Butler's case they were warned about his past).

 

All party's have this issue though - Eric Joyce, Lord Watson...

Butler doesn't exist. McGarry not convicted of anything yet and Thomson not even interviewed, Labour boys convicted with Watson jailed. What is this issue that all parties have?

 

 Are you not familiar with the notion that people are innocent until proven guilty? Surely our one party state run, institutions will conspire to get her off.

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pablo

Schemie, behaving like a Schemie, representing Schemies. Resounding Nationalist victory in any by-election I'd say.

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Maroon Sailor

286F6DB100000578-3463994-Suspended_McGar

 

Wouldn't. Would.

FS

 

That's like a ferret standing next to a chipmunk

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JamboX2

Butler doesn't exist. McGarry not convicted of anything yet and Thomson not even interviewed, Labour boys convicted with Watson jailed. What is this issue that all parties have?

 

Are you not familiar with the notion that people are innocent until proven guilty? Surely our one party state run, institutions will conspire to get her off.

She lost the whip because of allegations. The police have investigated and have now charged her with embezzlement. She's not exactly the most trust worthy person to be a parliamentarian: Glasgow East MP Natalie McGarry charged with embezzlement

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/glasgow-east-mp-natalie-mcgarry-charged-fraud-women-for-independence?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

I got the name confused it was Bill Walker:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10294364/SNP-inquiry-call-into-how-wife-beater-Bill-Walker-became-an-MSP.html&ved=0ahUKEwjq5YzTq7DPAhVGVRQKHaJwAgYQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNGWwVDmAEohdHRsEsYXyufn0DVBvw

 

As, I say all parties have issues.

 

McGarry's position is untenable as an MP. The situation is such that she will not be given the whip back. Politically daft for the SNP to do so. She will likely resign. There will then be a by-election.

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jake

Stealing from a charitable campaign group is a particularly low act.

 

Could be a tight by-election.

 

Not sure about that.

Charitable organisations are not exactly worthy causes.

On the whole.

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JamboX2

Do you have any idea of who the candidates will be?

None.

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jake

286F6DB100000578-3463994-Suspended_McGar

 

Wouldn't. Would.

 

Have and have.

 

On a comparible sense not actual

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luckyBatistuta

286F6DB100000578-3463994-Suspended_McGar

 

Wouldn't. Would.

:boak: :boak: and :boak:

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JamboX2

Remember JamboX2 Glasgow voted Yes, (Yes city)

 

And likewise for the SNP a strong candidate, but NOT me. LOL

We NEED to move beyond Yes and No. There's so much more to politics and life than that. Independence won't make life better it doesn't deal with schools or social security or the economy. Nor does bring No.

 

However, I agree at present I'd back an SNP win, albeit a narrower margin.

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Gorgiewave

We NEED to move beyond Yes and No. There's so much more to politics and life than that. Independence won't make life better it doesn't deal with schools or social security or the economy. Nor does bring No.

 

However, I agree at present I'd back an SNP win, albeit a narrower margin.

If you had to predict the SNP's Westminster haul in 2020, what would you say?

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blairdin

FS

 

That's like a ferret standing next to a chipmunk

That made the thread worth reading! Take a bow Sir...

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Mikey1874

She lost the whip because of allegations. The police have investigated and have now charged her with embezzlement. She's not exactly the most trust worthy person to be a parliamentarian: Glasgow East MP Natalie McGarry charged with embezzlement

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/glasgow-east-mp-natalie-mcgarry-charged-fraud-women-for-independence?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

I got the name confused it was Bill Walker:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10294364/SNP-inquiry-call-into-how-wife-beater-Bill-Walker-became-an-MSP.html&ved=0ahUKEwjq5YzTq7DPAhVGVRQKHaJwAgYQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNGWwVDmAEohdHRsEsYXyufn0DVBvw

 

As, I say all parties have issues.

 

McGarry's position is untenable as an MP. The situation is such that she will not be given the whip back. Politically daft for the SNP to do so. She will likely resign. There will then be a by-election.

Although she could end up being given not guilty verdict

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coconut doug

She lost the whip because of allegations. The police have investigated and have now charged her with embezzlement. She's not exactly the most trust worthy person to be a parliamentarian: Glasgow East MP Natalie McGarry charged with embezzlement

 

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/sep/27/glasgow-east-mp-natalie-mcgarry-charged-fraud-women-for-independence?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

 

I got the name confused it was Bill Walker:

 

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/10294364/SNP-inquiry-call-into-how-wife-beater-Bill-Walker-became-an-MSP.html&ved=0ahUKEwjq5YzTq7DPAhVGVRQKHaJwAgYQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNGWwVDmAEohdHRsEsYXyufn0DVBvw

 

As, I say all parties have issues.

 

McGarry's position is untenable as an MP. The situation is such that she will not be given the whip back. Politically daft for the SNP to do so. She will likely resign. There will then be a by-election.

She has not been convicted of anything yet. surely even Indy supporters are entitled to a fair trial or do you think we should just lynch her now?

 

She resigned from the whip. She did not lose it. I would imagine that if she is found not guilty she will be allowed to walk free from the court without any stain on her character and return to her job. That's what the sheriff usually says to those in that position. Why should McGarry be any different? Her position is not untenable unless she is found guilty.

 

If she is found guilty then there is a strong chance she will go to Jail but you cannot punish people unless they are found guilty, can you?

 

I expect that she will have a good chance of getting off anyway given that 50% of the Jury are likely to belong to the same cult as she does.

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i8hibsh

Ooft this has gotta hurt.

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JamboX2

Although she could end up being given not guilty verdict

 

Indeed. However, that will be (perhaps) a year down the road. Can she remain an MP with this over her? I'd argue not. 

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JamboX2

She has not been convicted of anything yet. surely even Indy supporters are entitled to a fair trial or do you think we should just lynch her now?

 

She resigned from the whip. She did not lose it. I would imagine that if she is found not guilty she will be allowed to walk free from the court without any stain on her character and return to her job. That's what the sheriff usually says to those in that position. Why should McGarry be any different? Her position is not untenable unless she is found guilty.

 

If she is found guilty then there is a strong chance she will go to Jail but you cannot punish people unless they are found guilty, can you?

 

I expect that she will have a good chance of getting off anyway given that 50% of the Jury are likely to belong to the same cult as she does.

 

She has been charged after a year long police investigation, that in itself is not an imposition of guilt but it means there is enough evidence to allow for her to be charged and a case to be brought in court. I think she is entitled to a fair trial. Who says she isn't? But can she legitimately hold onto a seat with this hanging over her? Others have, but it devalues their contribution massively and is a huge millstone round their necks. No one is calling for lynching anyone.

 

Usually, you're told "you are not guilty and you are free to go". Due to the not proven you can't as a Sheriff say what you have said, that is generally an English statement where matters are clearer cut due to the lack of the not proven verdict. Her position is not untenable, but it is made harder by being charged with embezzlement by the police. Look at Eric Joyce, a man with multiple ill-deeds and a court case which hung over him for assault, his position was not untenable as an MP. He was pretty much sidelined in Parliament and was a lame duck MP. As she will be. 

 

You cannot punish them in terms of a fine or a penal sentence. However, you can be tried in the court of public opinion and become toothless and be viewed as a hindrance. 

 

Your last point. Are you joking? Please say you are.

 

Frankly, in a political sense she's now a lame duck. Personally, I cannot see any other option but for her to have to resign (in a political manner). I don't care if she was SNP, independent, Yes, No, Green, Labour, Liberal, Tory or whatever. She has been charged and has already resigned the whip. She is in a tricky position and I don't think it serves her well for this to be hanging over her as an MP.

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JamboX2

Although she could end up being given not guilty verdict

 

Or not proven. 

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JamboX2

If you had to predict the SNP's Westminster haul in 2020, what would you say?

 

A drop from 54 but certainly not a huge one. Still a majority of Scottish seats though.

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Seymour M Hersh

:boak: :boak: and :boak:

 

What's the collective noun for Hyenas?  

 

And for the younger generation that's a bird if, in the soberness of morning, you woke up in bed with her and she was lying on your arm you'd bite your arm off to escape.

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Seymour M Hersh

Ooft this has gotta hurt.

 

Unlikely. It'll be the Torys at Westminsters fault somehow. I did laugh when I saw it got photographed in Parliament with it's wedding dress on. This after getting it's marriage blessed in the chapel at Westminster.  A bit two faced is it not?

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Mikey1874

Or not proven.

A verdict it seems after all we are keeping

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Stephane Grappelli

Unlikely. It'll be the Torys at Westminsters fault somehow. I did laugh when I saw it got photographed in Parliament with it's wedding dress on. This after getting it's marriage blessed in the chapel at Westminster.  A bit two faced is it not?

Not as bad as referring to someone as "it". Pathetic but not surprising.

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XB52

What's the collective noun for Hyenas?  

 

And for the younger generation that's a bird if, in the soberness of morning, you woke up in bed with her and she was lying on your arm you'd bite your arm off to escape.

It's Coyote actually, hence the 'Coyote Ugly' film and bars.  As regards the OP, can't make my mind up whether she should stick to the 'innocent until proved guilty' line or do the proper thing and resign her seat to protect the party.    

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Stephane Grappelli

It's Coyote actually, hence the 'Coyote Ugly' film and bars.  As regards the OP, can't make my mind up whether she should stick to the 'innocent until proved guilty' line or do the proper thing and resign her seat to protect the party.

I'm not surprised that he couldn't even get that right. What an ignorant oaf he is.

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coconut doug

She has been charged after a year long police investigation, that in itself is not an imposition of guilt but it means there is enough evidence to allow for her to be charged and a case to be brought in court. I think she is entitled to a fair trial. Who says she isn't? But can she legitimately hold onto a seat with this hanging over her? Others have, but it devalues their contribution massively and is a huge millstone round their necks. No one is calling for lynching anyone.

 

Usually, you're told "you are not guilty and you are free to go". Due to the not proven you can't as a Sheriff say what you have said, that is generally an English statement where matters are clearer cut due to the lack of the not proven verdict. Her position is not untenable, but it is made harder by being charged with embezzlement by the police. Look at Eric Joyce, a man with multiple ill-deeds and a court case which hung over him for assault, his position was not untenable as an MP. He was pretty much sidelined in Parliament and was a lame duck MP. As she will be. 

 

You cannot punish them in terms of a fine or a penal sentence. However, you can be tried in the court of public opinion and become toothless and be viewed as a hindrance. 

 

Your last point. Are you joking? Please say you are.

 

Frankly, in a political sense she's now a lame duck. Personally, I cannot see any other option but for her to have to resign (in a political manner). I don't care if she was SNP, independent, Yes, No, Green, Labour, Liberal, Tory or whatever. She has been charged and has already resigned the whip. She is in a tricky position and I don't think it serves her well for this to be hanging over her as an MP.

I never mentioned the not proven verdict. If she is found not proven she is exactly that and may or may not be guilty. I stated the not guilty verdict which as you rightly point out is often accompanied with the comments I made. Why would that not apply in Scotland? A quick look at the first trial of a politician in Scotland that I could think of was Sheridan. Lord Bracadale used exactly the words I quoted. You better get him telt.

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JamboX2

I never mentioned the not proven verdict. If she is found not proven she is exactly that and may or may not be guilty. I stated the not guilty verdict which as you rightly point out is often accompanied with the comments I made. Why would that not apply in Scotland? A quick look at the first trial of a politician in Scotland that I could think of was Sheridan. Lord Bracadale used exactly the words I quoted. You better get him telt.

As i explained it doesn't apply because we have a not proven verdict.

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