Chester™ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Sure. A very quick and easy search found this: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-32925007 As predicted a loss was made in the first year, though higher than predicted numbers means that the loss was less than forecast and should move out of the red in less than the 3 years. Interesting to note there that the buses are thriving. Kind of flies in the face of what many were saying. It still doesnt answer the question put above - how much is the revenue target in hard currency and whats the breakdown (as asked above)? The link says nothing about moving out in the red in 3 years either. Do you have one for that? That would be much appreciated. And if you want to try and patronise somebody, go and do with it someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 This link: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-subsidy-bill-cut-as-numbers-exceed-forecast-1-3858498 mentions the three year forecast. As for the revenue target I've no idea. You've as much chance as finding that as me, I suspect. Perhaps there's a confidentiality thing associated with it, I don't know and won't pretend to. Edit to add: that article does mention revenues being 3% higher than predictions. Maybe that's what you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frankblack Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 I've got a mate on the buses, who has told me that they've put extra money into the airport bus, as there numbers continue to grow since the tram started. How can that be, surely everybody would want to get the shiny, fabby new tram to the airport. Meanwhile, I continue to watch the tram go past me at night, on a regular basis, with about 10-12 people on it, while I'm stuck for what seems like an eternity at the traffic lights, because of the waste of money, that tings, as it crawls past. I also spoke to one of the heads of the company installing the tram system, who told me that, 'the council could have replaced their whole fleet of buses, with new environmentally friendly buses, for cheaper...but don't quote me on that lol' As you say...were they ever really necessary. The Airport buses go along Glasgow Road, St. Johns Road, and Murrayfield, covering The Marriot Hotel, Holiday Inn, The Zoo, etc. The Tram goes via The Gyle and Saughton. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The Airport buses go along Glasgow Road, St. Johns Road, and Murrayfield, covering The Marriot Hotel, Holiday Inn, The Zoo, etc. The Tram goes via The Gyle and Saughton. Might be being dumb frank, what point are you making? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Might be being dumb frank, what point are you making? Probably that the tram is no good for any tourist arriving at Edinburgh airport, and staying in one of the many hotels or guest houses situated from Maybury to Haymarket via the Corstorphine corridor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 From post 8 of this thread: "Can't get a seat for incoming/outgoing tourists to and from the airport." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 From post 8 of this thread: "Can't get a seat for incoming/outgoing tourists to and from the airport." To be expected in the month of August I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Probably that the tram is no good for any tourist arriving at Edinburgh airport, and staying in one of the many hotels or guest houses situated from Maybury to Haymarket via the Corstorphine corridor. That's what I was thinking, but wasn't entirely sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The Airport buses go along Glasgow Road, St. Johns Road, and Murrayfield, covering The Marriot Hotel, Holiday Inn, The Zoo, etc. The Tram goes via The Gyle and Saughton. ....and so covers the hotels in Edinburgh Park, the Ibis, the Novotel, the PremierInn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogz Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 ....and so covers the hotels in Edinburgh Park, the Ibis, the Novotel, the PremierInn. Novotel & Premier Inn would be okay - but the Ibis is probably a +20 minute walk and would be easier to get to on the 35 bus. However, I suspect all 3 of these hotels have a lot of customers travelling for business so they'll probably avoid public transport all together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Novotel & Premier Inn would be okay - but the Ibis is probably a +20 minute walk and would be easier to get to on the 35 bus. However, I suspect all 3 of these hotels have a lot of customers travelling for business so they'll probably avoid public transport all together. The Ibis looks like it's only across the road from the Gyle Centre stop. I don't know if the people using these hotels are more or less likely to be travelling on business than those in the Marriott or the Holiday Inn (or Post House as I still think of it) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunks Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Novotel & Premier Inn would be okay - but the Ibis is probably a +20 minute walk and would be easier to get to on the 35 bus. However, I suspect all 3 of these hotels have a lot of customers travelling for business so they'll probably avoid public transport all together. The Ibis is a 5 minute walk at most from a tram stop. I've stayed in the other two are few times on business and used the trams every time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Were or are you part of this project? You are very pro-tram. I think they look good but struggle to see what a really over budget single line adds. They do nothing for 95% of the population of Edinburgh, hence the frustration of many. Also, Leith walk is far too narrow to accommodate trams buses cars and bikes. Silly idea in the first place but to abandon it halfway through should have been the death knell for the entire project. No I amn't and never have been part of the tram project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambothump Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 As soon as the trams started, traffic in South Gyle Crescent reduced dramatically, 15 minutes in to Haymarket, as opposed, in a car, 30 minutes to get to the round about at Broomhouse. Haters goany hate, our council has always been and will probably always be, akin to a golf club council, a bunch of lazy amateurs trying to run a business We could do with General Joe back now ! They did say on his death, his like would never impede them again, they've been kinda right about that. Trams, were and are a good idea, only badly thought out, planned and implemented in construction, by our inept council. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doogz Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 The Ibis is a 5 minute walk at most from a tram stop. I've stayed in the other two are few times on business and used the trams every time. Sorry - I'd been looking from the edinburgh park stop as that was what had originally been mentioned but see a closer stop is available. I'd still rather just pay the ?1.60 and go on the 35 if I was going to the Ibis though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 Thanks for the reply. Just wondering why you like them so much. As I said, they look good sliding through a capital city but cost a bomb and unlikely to ever make a profit In a city with narrow streets like Edinburgh it seems crazy to narrow the roads further to accommodate the tram. They are more comfortable and more likely to get people out of their cars than buses. I think buses have a big part to play in public transport in Edinburgh (and most other cities would give their eye teeth to have as good a service) but trams can carry more people and faster on main 'trunk' routes like up Leith Walk. I'd like to see them extended out to places like Musselburgh and Dalkeith too. Edinburgh is to mushroom in size and to keep the city moving we will need a fast, comfortable and high-capacity mode of public transport. I have my doubts about the south sub as it's a long way round to Morningside or Newington from Waverley. Narrow streets needn't be a problem for trams - Amsterdam manages fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 What was the real reason/need for the tram. What passengers has it acquired/benefitted that didn't have a means to public transport in the first place. A lot of money for this city to spend, that could have been spent elsewhere, on projects that needed the money far more imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted August 25, 2016 Share Posted August 25, 2016 They are more comfortable and more likely to get people out of their cars than buses. I think buses have a big part to play in public transport in Edinburgh (and most other cities would give their eye teeth to have as good a service) but trams can carry more people and faster on main 'trunk' routes like up Leith Walk. I'd like to see them extended out to places like Musselburgh and Dalkeith too. Edinburgh is to mushroom in size and to keep the city moving we will need a fast, comfortable and high-capacity mode of public transport. I have my doubts about the south sub as it's a long way round to Morningside or Newington from Waverley. Narrow streets needn't be a problem for trams - Amsterdam manages fine. Narrow streets needn't be a problem, but for a non forward thinking local authority like ours, it has become one. In between deciding that it was too expensive to take down Leith Walk, to then maybe take it down, they have narrowed the carriageway from Pilrig Street to the Foot of the Walk to single lane, creating lovely new large paved areas with no expense spared on the large slabs used, are these to be ripped up again and the carriageway dualed again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolkeith Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 What was the real reason/need for the tram. What passengers has it acquired/benefitted that didn't have a means to public transport in the first place. A lot of money for this city to spend, that could have been spent elsewhere, on projects that needed the money far more imo. The only people who have really benefited are those that commute into Edinburgh to work and use the park and ride. Then folk that live in town and work out at Edinburgh Park. Their times to work have been reduced. After work rush hour the trams are empty from what I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luckyBatistuta Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 The only people who have really benefited are those that commute into Edinburgh to work and use the park and ride. Then folk that live in town and work out at Edinburgh Park. Their times to work have been reduced. After work rush hour the trams are empty from what I've seen. Lot of money, just for that. Factor in the congestion it's brought to the city centre and it's just been a total waste of money, for something that wasn't really needed for Edinburgh. I wish I had a pound for every time a tourist has told me how great our bus service is over the years, I'd be a rich man. Yet I'm still waiting on one to rave about the tram. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chester™ Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 This link: http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/tram-subsidy-bill-cut-as-numbers-exceed-forecast-1-3858498 mentions the three year forecast. As for the revenue target I've no idea. You've as much chance as finding that as me, I suspect. Perhaps there's a confidentiality thing associated with it, I don't know and won't pretend to. Edit to add: that article does mention revenues being 3% higher than predictions. Maybe that's what you mean? Thanks. With the fact the monetary value and breakdown isnt readily available, I'm sure you can understand people's scepticism when the Council trumpet how great everything is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Real Maroonblood Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Thanks. With the fact the monetary value and breakdown isnt readily available, I'm sure you can understand people's scepticism when the Council trumpet how great everything is? The biggest trumpet being Jenny Dawe former council leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Murray Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 I'm pretty sure if the trams were pulling in the cash, we'd be hearing about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikey1874 Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Better wifi than on buses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 The original business plan for the trams was to ferry tens of thousands of people from the huge new Waterfront development at Granton into town and back, preventing the addition of extra bus services. The Airport line was just a nice wee option for tourists to use. When the crunch hit and the Waterfront plan was scrapped, the Trams became nothing but a coonsil vanity project. Lothian Buses is now in danger of being taken over by TIE entirely and being semi privatised. The best bus service in Europe is going to end up being asset stripped to fund the trams extensions then broken up and sold off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Probably that the tram is no good for any tourist arriving at Edinburgh airport, and staying in one of the many hotels or guest houses situated from Maybury to Haymarket via the Corstorphine corridor. Pretty handy for the Premier Inn and (as is the bus) a number of hotels and guest houses in the Haymarket area. The bus has the advantage of being the first thing you see leaving the airport. The signposting for the tram is surprisingly low key, and getting to it involves a longer walk. Don't really understand why the tram didn't go closer and that big empty concourse in front of the.terminal extension wasn't used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaps Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 http://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/transport/workers-fear-for-future-of-lothian-buses-1-4213798 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Of The Cat Cafe Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Always wonder how many tourists get off when they hear the announcement "West End for Princes Street" thinking they are at the actual Princes Street... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Francis Albert Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Always wonder how many tourists get off when they hear the announcement "West End for Princes Street" thinking they are at the actual Princes Street... Have to say I don't understand the absence of a stop at the actual West end, or at the East End opposite the Waverley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FWJ Posted August 26, 2016 Share Posted August 26, 2016 Have to say I don't understand the absence of a stop at the actual West end, or at the East End opposite the Waverley. Both busy junctions. Maybe not there to avoid that and to avoid having passengers wandering about at these sites? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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