The SPL - is this where we're at? (NHC)

[shaun.lawson]

1. Their constant "we hate Rangers more than you" chants.

 

2. Their Jock Stein memorial/tribute banner. Sycophancy at its worst.

 

Aw, diddums.

[Therapist]

Aw, diddums.

 

Insert "I love the cod heads" smiley.

 

Anyway, goodnight Shean.

[S.N.T.H.]

To be honest, i don't think hating Rangers automatically makes you a Celtic fan? That, infact, is everything i hate. It's exact same as what people, including me, on here moan about being branded a Hun for hating Celtic.

 

And the banner for Stein, was probably due to the fact that he was considered a legend all over Scotland. Although, granted, he was aware.

[Therapist]

And the banner for Stein, was probably due to the fact that he was considered a legend all over Scotland. Although, granted, he was aware.

 

No other fhans did it, even the mini-selliks of Fester Road. Incidentally, IIRC the coddies unveiled the banner at Darkheid.

[lost in leith]

I agree. Scotland has a population of 5 million but we have 40 senior football clubs.

 

England has a population of 52 million with 92 clubs in their top leagues.

 

I am not sure how many clubs and leagues we should allow in this country but we do as you say need a radical shakeup.

 

Not really a fair comparison. You occasionally get a club in the second tier of Scottish football that is part time. Even the 'full time' clubs have a lot of players who will have other jobs to supplement their income. Most if not all of the clubs in the Conference (England's fifth tier, with 92 clubs above them) are full time, and I'm pretty sure there are clubs below Conference level with at least some full time players.

 

Scottish football is (I think) unique in having the juniors. I suspect the likes of Bathgate will pay higher wages than most 2ns/3rd division teams, but would probably rather be a big fish in a small pool rather than join the seniors.

[shaun.lawson]

No other fhans did it, even the mini-selliks of Fester Road. Incidentally, IIRC the coddies unveiled the banner at Darkheid.

 

Good on them. Jock Stein was a legendary manager - and it's generally only the wilfully blind or bigoted who can't acknowledge this...

[Therapist]

Jock Stein was a legendary manager

 

Yes, he certainly left a mark on the Scottish game.

[S.N.T.H.]

Yes, he certainly left a mark on the Scottish game.

 

If only he knew just how well he was loved. Although, i'm certain he was probably aware.

[aDONis]

Dong, you're a sensible chap. Do you honsetly think people/broadcasters will pay to watch the SPL when there's La Liga, Serie A, EPL, etc? Face it, the SPL can't give their product away.

 

Cent, competition is indeed tough.

 

That's what I meant by saying we should give it away to terrestrial broadcasters.

 

In think we need the long term exposure, more than we need the short term cash flows.

 

The whole SPL business model will have to change, but hopefully increased advertising revenues would reduce the blow of losing TV revenues.

 

It would take a tremendous leap of faith to do this, and I'm not sure our game has the charactors to do it.

 

aDONis

[Therapist]

That's what I meant by saying we should give it away to terrestrial broadcasters.

 

I'm not sure this would be feasible. Broadcasters wouldn't pay for the SPL product with the result that if it were shown at all, it would be at ungodly hours of the day when nobody was watching - basically a schedule filler.

[Charlie-Brown]

As I see it for Scottish players the SPL is fast becoming a place to establish your first team credentials, if your any good then move away to earn some money then return at the end of your career to coast down towards retirement in a final pay-day and learn some coaching.....

[aDONis]

I'm not sure this would be feasible. Broadcasters wouldn't pay for the SPL product with the result that if it were shown at all, it would be at ungodly hours of the day when nobody was watching - basically a schedule filler.

 

Quite possibly, but I'd hope we'd (the SPL) be able to negotiate a few slots (maybe a 15 min section in football focus), some live games on BBC3 or 4 with a decent highlights programme in a reasonable slot through the week.

 

Of course, it won't happen as it is too much of a risk, but it's an idea.

 

aDONis

[shaun.lawson]

As I see it for Scottish players the SPL is fast becoming a place to establish your first team credentials, if your any good then move away to earn some money then return at the end of your career to coast down towards retirement in a final pay-day and learn some coaching.....

 

Though this also applies in Brazil, Argentina, France and Holland. A league with little money has very big advantages: it should enable young Scottish players to develop, get into the first team, and move on to better leagues if they're good enough - all of which ought to be excellent news for the national team.

[aDONis]

NMH, that certainly seems to be where we are at the moment.

 

I have hope though. We are a better footballing nation now than even 5 or 10 years ago.

 

We'll never be an EPL but I think we can be a competative league again.

 

Yours

aDONis

[aDONis]

Though this also applies in Brazil, Argentina, France and Holland. A league with little money has very big advantages: it should enable young Scottish players to develop, get into the first team, and move on to better leagues if they're good enough - all of which ought to be excellent news for the national team.

 

Excellently put Shaun. This is what I was trying to say earlier, in that we should have a proper stab at developing youngsters.

 

aDONis

[Charlie-Brown]

Though this also applies in Brazil, Argentina, France and Holland. A league with little money has very big advantages: it should enable young Scottish players to develop, get into the first team, and move on to better leagues if they're good enough - all of which ought to be excellent news for the national team.

 

Yes but in those 4 countries Shaun their players can be found all across Europe in various Leagues but our players are in 99% of cases playing in the bigger wealthier league next door........however the point about each player leaving creating another opportunity for youth is valid.

[magicTs]

Yes but in those 4 countries Shaun their players can be found all across Europe in various Leagues but our players are in 99% of cases playing in the bigger wealthier league next door........

 

Brazil are a country of 187 million people.

Argentina are a country of 41 million people.

France are a country of 67 million people.

 

They have won 8 World Cups between them and are super powers of the football world. They have many times more football players at every level.

 

Holland though smaller still have nearly 17 million people and have historically been one of the best countires in Europe for developing football talent. To compare Scotland to any of them is pointless.

[shaun.lawson]

Brazil are a country of 187 million people.

Argentina are a country of 41 million people.

France are a country of 67 million people.

 

They have won 8 World Cups between them and are super powers of the football world. They have many times more football players at every level.

 

Holland though smaller still have nearly 17 million people and have historically been one of the best countires in Europe for developing football talent. To compare Scotland to any of them is pointless.

 

Uruguay, population less than 3.5 million, have won two World Cups, two Olympic titles, countless Copa Americas, and continue to this day in enjoying an astonishing record in developing and exporting top young players. If they can do this, why can't Scotland too? Not least because Uruguay effectively invented modern football, and announced it to the world in Paris in 1924, having learnt it from... visiting Scots.

[Charlie-Brown]

Uruguay, population less than 3.5 million, have won two World Cups, two Olympic titles, countless Copa Americas, and continue to this day in enjoying an astonishing record in developing and exporting top young players. If they can do this, why can't Scotland too? Not least because Uruguay effectively invented modern football, and announced it to the world in Paris in 1924, having learnt it from... visiting Scots.

 

So that's where the missing Hobo 'flair' manual went? Montevideo not Rio!!

[aDONis]

Maybe we should look even closer to home. Denmark pop 5.4m They've got a european championship to call their own

[shaun.lawson]

Maybe we should look even closer to home. Denmark pop 5.4m They've got a european championship to call their own

 

Indeed. And a bit like Holland, they've sometimes been capable of producing really exciting sides too: notably that brilliant team of 1984 and 1986.

[Charlie-Brown]

Anyway the point of this is that those who grew up watching the likes of Henry Smith, Craig Levein, Dave McPherson, Gary Mackay, John Colquhoun, John Robertson etc playing for Hearts in their peak years and playing for almost a decade or more together are highly unlikely to see anything like this be repeated anytime soon - Robertson & Levein in particular would have been snapped up by age 21 and the rest playing in Championship or Premiership teams after 3 or 4 years at Hearts maximum...quite depressing really.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Maybe we should look even closer to home. Denmark pop 5.4m They've got a european championship to call their own

 

And they didn't even qualify for the finals, they were invited in because Yugoslavia was at war and breaking up at the time.

[shaun.lawson]

So that's where the missing Hobo 'flair' manual went? Montevideo not Rio!!

 

Hehehe! Certainly, in the cases I mentioned above, as well as the Uruguayan side in 1954, which lost a spellbinding semi-final after extra time against the Magic Magyars. It was probably Uruguay's best team ever: and one of the greatest two or three matches in the history of the World Cup too.

 

Unfortunately, inevitably, decline set in afterwards - and with it came a desperate desire among all Uruguayan sides to protect their nation's history and 'honour': meaning an ever more cynical, neurotic style of play. It's a terrible shame, as anyone who saw their comeback from 2-0 down to lead Brazil 3-2 at the Maracana in 2004, or from 3-0 down to 3-3 against Senegal in a breathtaking second half in 2002 could testify to. Uruguay can be as good as Argentina when they're in the mood: sadly though, that isn't often the case nowadays.

[jamboinglasgow]

Uruguay, population less than 3.5 million, have won two World Cups, two Olympic titles, countless Copa Americas, and continue to this day in enjoying an astonishing record in developing and exporting top young players. If they can do this, why can't Scotland too? Not least because Uruguay effectively invented modern football, and announced it to the world in Paris in 1924, having learnt it from... visiting Scots.

 

 

They are a great example of what a small country can achieve and many others do it well. In my mind I think Scotland should have a rethink. What the Scottish leagues should concentrate on is youth development. And it should be done with the aid of the government i.e. grass routes heavily invested, coaches brought up to standard.

 

If you take the Netherlands as standard we should aim for, for years they have worked hard at improving their level of players and built them up from grass routes. This in turn made their football attractive, their teams great to play for and successful. This improves the reputation of the league and they have had great successful teams that have played. They also have only proffesional teams split into two leagues so maybe that helps before (think a two league system would be good in Scotland as well with a 16 team SPL and maybe a 16 team SPL 2.)

 

As for their national team, only 7 of the 23 man (original) Euro 2008 squad are from the Dutch league but what they do better than Scotland is have players from many leagues rather than players from only Scotland and England, it gives you players with a better experence of more styles.

 

So my view is that we adopt the Dutch way of football and treat the SPL as a nuturing ground for Scottish talent, and use it more than foregin players unless they can bring experence in that can compliment youngsters development.

[shaun.lawson]

They are a great example of what a small country can achieve and many others do it well. In my mind I think Scotland should have a rethink. What the Scottish leagues should concentrate on is youth development. And it should be done with the aid of the government i.e. grass routes heavily invested, coaches brought up to standard.

 

If you take the Netherlands as standard we should aim for, for years they have worked hard at improving their level of players and built them up from grass routes. This in turn made their football attractive, their teams great to play for and successful. This improves the reputation of the league and they have had great successful teams that have played. They also have only proffesional teams split into two leagues so maybe that helps before (think a two league system would be good in Scotland as well with a 16 team SPL and maybe a 16 team SPL 2.)

 

As for their national team, only 7 of the 23 man (original) Euro 2008 squad are from the Dutch league but what they do better than Scotland is have players from many leagues rather than players from only Scotland and England, it gives you players with a better experence of more styles.

 

So my view is that we adopt the Dutch way of football and treat the SPL as a nuturing ground for Scottish talent, and use it more than foregin players unless they can bring experence in that can compliment youngsters development.

 

There's absolutely no reason why not. Where did physical, muscular, direct football originate? Late nineteenth century England. And where did short-passing, much subtler football start? Late nineteenth century Scotland. If you could do it then, why not again?

[jamboinglasgow]

There's absolutely no reason why not. Where did physical, muscular, direct football originate? Late nineteenth century England. And where did short-passing, much subtler football start? Late nineteenth century Scotland. If you could do it then, why not again?

 

 

I know, though it would take a huge effort to change our football style and mentalilty but I think it would be worth it. I have a dream that the phrase "Scotland play a great style of football" will echo among commentaters. That we produce players that clubs outside Britain want to own and that the SPL is a great source for the creation of great Scottish talent.