Dens '86 - Penalty claim, Ref "didn't know"

[Maroon Mayhem]

Interesting article on the now retired Bill Crombie.

 

He delves back into his past and the self confessed Jambo says about the foul on Sandy Clark;

 

"There was a penalty claim early on in the game for Hearts but having looked at it again and again I don't know. What I do know is that one of my sons, a staunch Hearts supporter, never spoke to me for a year after that match. No kidding."

[savage]

i can confirm the son comment i know two of his three sons and played football with them. he was at our game the day after and nobody spoke to him as most of us were hearts fans, parents included. it was a stonewaller if ever i saw one

[davemclaren]

Interesting article on the now retired Bill Crombie.

 

He delves back into his past and the self confessed Jambo says about the foul on Sandy Clark;

 

Definite penalty....but I'm a bit biased.

[Winston Ingram]

There are very few things in life that no manner of arguments could ever convince me of. How that was not a penalty is one of them, though.

 

Another, incidentally, is how Mike McCurry did not give hand ball against Barry Ferguson in this season's CIS semi.

[4marsbars]

Not that it makes any difference now but what a crazy thing for a Hearts fan to get to referee a (rare) Hearts title decider.

[jambonian]

Interesting article on the now retired Bill Crombie.

 

He delves back into his past and the self confessed Jambo says about the foul on Sandy Clark;

I seem to remember an article in the paper around the time of the Miko/Andy Davis (linesman) incident, it was to do with refs and linesmen shouldn't be given games of the teams they support incase they get accused of bias(Davis was supposedly a season ticket holder at Ibrox) i'm sure the ref at Dens Park that day had said in the article that he was a Hearts fan and he didn't give the Clark penalty because too many people, SFA included knew he was a Jambo, he didn't give it because of that. If that WAS the case, that's shocking! It wouldn't stop refs giving decisions if it was in favour of the old firm, we've been watching it for years!

[Ben Dover]

I think there was a recent thread where this was discussed maybe dealing with the BBC program of that season. I was at Dens that day but to be honest I can hardly recall any incidents from the game. However I would perhaps have expected to remember a stonewall pen incident though ?

[Del1812]

Maybe I'm more balanced because I didn't have to live through the Dens nightmare, maybe I'm just talking ****e... but I have saw the penalty claim so many times and I don't think it should ever be called a stonewaller. I would say it was a penalty but that's my decision after some self debate. To me, a stonewaller would be a penalty beyond any reasonable doubt. For me, this particular decision does not come under that category.

 

Although I take some pride in the fact that a Hearts fan called it the way he saw it, when we all know what an Old Firm ref would do, if it were me I'd stuff any job where the sun don't shine just to see us win the league. I'd have given a penalty if someone sneezed on Sandy Clark and disallowed Albert Kidd's first goal on the basis of him being too ****e to score against such a great club.

[Le Chat]

I was sitting on the wee wall at the front of the terracing directly in line from where Hendry fouled Clark.

 

It was a disgraceful decision by Crombie. Quite simply, he shat himself.

[Walter Kidd]

I was sitting on the wee wall at the front of the terracing directly in line from where Hendry fouled Clark.

 

It was a disgraceful decision by Crombie. Quite simply, he shat himself.

 

Too right he did. A disgraceful decision.

 

Still hurts too much.

[Drylaw Hearts]

I could be wrong here but.....

 

I'm pretty sure Bill Crombie's daughter is a ST holder at Tynecastle.

 

Section D I think.

[shaun.lawson]

I've just searched for it online. Consequently, for the first time ever, I've put myself through the highlights of that game (known to me hitherto as "what game?") - but the sodding Dundee fan who uploaded it didn't include the penalty shout! :mad:

 

Anyone know if it can be found anywhere else?

[TyphoonJambo]

I have seen it over and over it is, every time, an absolute stonewaller. My brother used to work beside Crombie and his excuse at the time was along the lines of "No top level referee would give a penalty so early in such an important game" having scoured the rule books and bearing in mind the penalty in the final i am at a loss to understand this bollocks!!!!

[Billy the Jambo]

Of course he feking knew .I worked at Chesser House in the poll tax arrears department in i think 1990 he worked there as a security guard and he still does ,anywayi was in the canteen one lunchtime it was packed and the only seat that i seen free was at crombies table .I started to talk to him about a football match that was on tv the previous night when i slagged off the ref about giving a penalty to Celtic i think it was .He said to me if i was the ref i would have given the penalty to which i replied well why the feck did you not give Hearts a penalty in 1986 he then told me to feck off and got up and moved to another table that became free .I have never forgiven the barsteward for that day in dundee and never will

[Cobblers]

I've just searched for it online. Consequently, for the first time ever, I've put myself through the highlights of that game (known to me hitherto as "what game?") - but the sodding Dundee fan who uploaded it didn't include the penalty shout! :mad:

 

Anyone know if it can be found anywhere else?

 

It's on the Back from the Brink video.

 

Problem was it was too early in the game IIRC. First few minutes I think.

[Hilary Briss]

I could be wrong here but.....

 

I'm pretty sure Bill Crombie's daughter is a ST holder at Tynecastle.

 

Section D I think.

 

His laddie "Biscuits" never missed a game mid to late 80's......dont know if he still goes.

[piltonjambo]

I actually worked on the same shift with Bill in Ferranti's in 1986 at the time this match was played, it is true he was a Jambo but I cannot forget his actual words when in the course of some banter from the Hearts fans on our shift about whether he would do US a favour and award US a penalty on the day ... his response was to state quite catagorically that ... there would be NO penalties awarded that day!!!

When the lads took him to task and said he could not make that judgement at this time (the week prior to the match) a penalty was a penalty whichever side it went to ... he point blank refused to change his bizarre view ... it seemed that even before the teams had taken to the park, he had decided that there were not to be any penalties in the game!!!

The speculation at our place of employment at that time was that Bill did not want to be faced with accusations of bias towards Hearts by his SFA colleagues as he was known to be a Hearts fan, because he was keen to progress as a referee ...

However this did not seem to account for a situation if Dundee had a penalty claim that day ... so we all just decided that he was being an incredible *****!!

[fordy]

In my 50years (approx) of watching football, i'm convinced 9 out 10 referees would have given a penalty. Why he didn't, i have no idea. It was an absolute 'stonewaller.'

Still hurting....

[Toggie88]

Arsehole.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Arsehole.

 

I'm sure he's a decent bloke really

[jambovambo]

It's on the Back from the Brink video.

 

Problem was it was too early in the game IIRC. First few minutes I think.

 

Yeah - how the heck we got a penalty in the first few seconds in '96, I really will never know.

[Dusk_Till_Dawn]

Yeah - how the heck we got a penalty in the first few seconds in '96, I really will never know.

 

[kram]

I actually worked on the same shift with Bill in Ferranti's in 1986 at the time this match was played, it is true he was a Jambo but I cannot forget his actual words when in the course of some banter from the Hearts fans on our shift about whether he would do US a favour and award US a penalty on the day ... his response was to state quite catagorically that ... there would be NO penalties awarded that day!!!

When the lads took him to task and said he could not make that judgement at this time (the week prior to the match) a penalty was a penalty whichever side it went to ... he point blank refused to change his bizarre view ... it seemed that even before the teams had taken to the park, he had decided that there were not to be any penalties in the game!!!

The speculation at our place of employment at that time was that Bill did not want to be faced with accusations of bias towards Hearts by his SFA colleagues as he was known to be a Hearts fan, because he was keen to progress as a referee ...

However this did not seem to account for a situation if Dundee had a penalty claim that day ... so we all just decided that he was being an incredible *****!!

 

Don't post much but had to input to this one!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I can verify the above as I too worked in Ferranti at the same time as the Crombie T****r and as stated by PJ he did let everyone know that hearts would not be getting any penalties in the Dens game. Never liked the man, never will. His son who also worked there was a decent enough lad and hearts supporter.

[lambojambo]

I have seen it over and over it is, every time, an absolute stonewaller. My brother used to work beside Crombie and his excuse at the time was along the lines of "No top level referee would give a penalty so early in such an important game" having scoured the rule books and bearing in mind the penalty in the final i am at a loss to understand this bollocks!!!!

 

 

Thank God Willie Young took a different view in 98!!!

[Horse]

maybe if we bring this up often enough he will give us the penalty and we will win the league:rolleyes:

 

Think I even prefer the ST and Manager threads compared to the Dens Park ones...

[sadj]

 

hehe my thoughts too. was thinking id been two years too late for a party n my whole life was now messed up and out of sync

[LAIRDY14]

Interesting article on the now retired Bill Crombie.

 

He delves back into his past and the self confessed Jambo says about the foul on Sandy Clark;

 

He still refs in youth football. He was the ref for my mate that manages North Merchi 21s a couple of Thursday's back, I had to compose myself when he was 5 feet away!

[jambovambo]

Yeah - how the heck we got a penalty in the first few seconds in '96, I really will never know.

 

 

Ooops - typo.

[JamboAl]

Did he not also ref the 1987 semi that we lost? If he did I seem to recall he was not brilliant that day either.

[H2]

Bottom line is that Sir Alex was in the Dundee dug out that day,and everyone knows it is he who makes the decisions

[Drylaw Hearts]

Bottom line is that Sir Alex was in the Dundee dug out that day,and everyone knows it is he who makes the decisions

 

?

 

Sir Alex ?

[Perth to Paisley]

?

 

Sir Alex ?

 

Didn't knowAlex Knox was knighted.

[Debut 4]

I don`t know Bill that well but i grew up with his sons. Apart from one, all the family are Hearts.

 

Today, i still believe it was a conspiracy by the West to give him the game.

 

Why? A Hearts supporting ref given their title decider? You`d think it was a chance to hand it on a plate but he was put under pressure knowing fine well the press would have a field day if there was any dodgy moments in the game.

 

We don`t have the brass necks of the Weegies, because im sure a Hugh Dallas or an Andy Davis wouldn`t think twice about giving the advantage to Rangers in the same circumstances.

 

About the penalty. My Brother in law is a life long friend of Neil Berry. Neil told him a week after the game that Bill Crombie went into the Hearts dressing room and said NO PENALTIES will be given today????? All the players looked at each other confused.

 

Have another look at the incident when big Sandy went down.

[H2]

?

 

Sir Alex ?

 

Yep

Sir Alex was in the Dundee dug out with his buddy Archie. Quite how he got away with it beggars belief, but he was there and left about 10 mins before the end as i recall - Maybe he decided that AK substitution then left?) He walk down the track in front of the Hearts support in the main stand.

 

Unless it was his twin brother?

[Stanley_]

maybe if we bring this up often enough he will give us the penalty and we will win the league:rolleyes:

 

Think I even prefer the ST and Manager threads compared to the Dens Park ones...

 

A thread about the penalty claim in '86 is just as relevant as a manager thread. We'll never get the penalty and we'll never get a manager...

[H2]

A thread about the penalty claim in '86 is just as relevant as a manager thread. We'll never get the penalty and we'll never get a manager...

 

So your glass isn't even half empty, it's drained

 

Never mind just think :107years:

[Drylaw Hearts]

Yep

Sir Alex was in the Dundee dug out with his buddy Archie. Quite how he got away with it beggars belief, but he was there and left about 10 mins before the end as i recall - Maybe he decided that AK substitution then left?) He walk down the track in front of the Hearts support in the main stand.

 

Unless it was his twin brother?

 

I have never heard this before.

[huskycol]

I actually worked on the same shift with Bill in Ferranti's in 1986 at the time this match was played, it is true he was a Jambo but I cannot forget his actual words when in the course of some banter from the Hearts fans on our shift about whether he would do US a favour and award US a penalty on the day ... his response was to state quite catagorically that ... there would be NO penalties awarded that day!!!

When the lads took him to task and said he could not make that judgement at this time (the week prior to the match) a penalty was a penalty whichever side it went to ... he point blank refused to change his bizarre view ... it seemed that even before the teams had taken to the park, he had decided that there were not to be any penalties in the game!!!

The speculation at our place of employment at that time was that Bill did not want to be faced with accusations of bias towards Hearts by his SFA colleagues as he was known to be a Hearts fan, because he was keen to progress as a referee ...

However this did not seem to account for a situation if Dundee had a penalty claim that day ... so we all just decided that he was being an incredible *****!!

 

The only Hearts supporters there that day that didn't claim for a penalty were Ferranti employees. You will also remember he was going for his FIFA badges at the time and nothing was getting in the way.

 

Crombie was second choice for referee that day I think it was Bob Valentine that was supposed to take the match but turned it down because he was a Hearts supporter. Funny that:confused:

[heartgarfunkel]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaggggggghhhhhhhhhh:sad:

 

would swap 98 penalty for one in 86 in a heartbeat.

 

Can I be the first to say I ****ing hate St Midden, dirty, bribe-taking (allegedly), third-choice goalie-playing *******s?:107years: Any Hearts manager worth his salt should send the XI out to absolutely hammer them (and all other opposition of course, but particularly McGarveys 'Buddy' team) EVERY time we play them, for the rest of time. I have no problem with Dundee, Kidd, the weeteamists who gloat and define themselves by their bigger and better city elders who have pimped them since 1875, but I detest that Paisley mob. They are the Charles Manson gang of Scottish football.

[Mr X]

They are the Charles Manson gang of Scottish football.

 

Nice one!!

[JyTees]

I could be wrong here but.....

 

I'm pretty sure Bill Crombie's daughter is a ST holder at Tynecastle.

 

Section D I think.

 

He's not got a daughter. Three sons. Had four at the time.

 

All Jambos!

 

It was his defining moment. Could've been a hero. Turned out to be a to$$pot!

 

Having said all that though lads, we should've taken care of they ***** ourselves! 1 point FFS!

[Stanley_]

So your glass isn't even half empty, it's drained

 

Never mind just think :107years:

 

Nah, I was just echoing what everyone on hear seems to be saying. I still have a little optimism left that we will appoint a manager. It's goes down very slightly every day but I still have some hope.

[smartgair]

I was at this game and I unfortunately will remember every minute of the whole day as long as I shall live,including speaking to Wallace Mercer outside Dens when he told my daughter and I that a few of the players were ill and would struggle to play.I have the programme signed by Wallace in the house but haven,t looked at it since.I remember to me it was a stonewall pen.but have never seen a film of it.Anyone Know where I could find this?