MackaysCentreSpot Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have noticed that Hearts PR machine is quick enough to give out stats when they are in their favour. Still awaiting Hearts to announce how many ST holders actually renewed this season but I think they will go along the road of hanging off until the public sale kicks in and just announce a total figure. Covering up the cracks comes to mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonjambo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Marks and Spencers today announced that the new range of socks introduced over the winter had been a complete disaster area and that they had sold only about a tenth of their expected throughput. A spokesman said "Yes, the socks were absolutely minging and we've sold about three pairs nationwide but in the interests of fairness, we thought we'd better tell our customers about our failings and possibly even hold a press conference to do it. There's some really naff ties we might tell them about too". As he was being led away by security, the spokesman said "Yeah but come on, its only fair ... we announce things when they go well, don't we ... ". GC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Marks and Spencers today announced that the new range of socks introduced over the winter had been a complete disaster area and that they had sold only about a tenth of their expected throughput. A spokesman said "Yes, the socks were absolutely minging and we've sold about three pairs nationwide but in the interests of fairness, we thought we'd better tell our customers about our failings and possibly even hold a press conference to do it. There's some really naff ties we might tell them about too". As he was being led away by security, the spokesman said "Yeah but come on, its only fair ... we announce things when they go well, don't we ... ". GC The difference being, M&S have customers. We are supporters, not customers. Although it appears Vlad wants to treat us like customers. Which means he deserves NO loyalty from us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aDONis Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 No offence, but it wouldn't be much of a PR dept if it advertised shortcomings and failures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The difference being, M&S have customers. We are supporters, not customers. Although it appears Vlad wants to treat us like customers. Which means he deserves NO loyalty from us. You're right. I'm buying my socks elsewhere from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walter Bishop Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have noticed that Hearts PR machine is quick enough to give out stats when they are in their favour. Still awaiting Hearts to announce how many ST holders actually renewed this season but I think they will go along the road of hanging off until the public sale kicks in and just announce a total figure. Covering up the cracks comes to mind. Phone the ticket office and ask, if they are honest it will be under 8,000. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 No offence, but it wouldn't be much of a PR dept if it advertised shortcomings and failures. Their shortcomings and failures are advertised in the league table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Their shortcomings and failures are advertised in the league table. Absolutement. And at the moment we are the Jack Fulton's of supermarkets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackaysCentreSpot Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 No offence, but it wouldn't be much of a PR dept if it advertised shortcomings and failures. Maybe Honesty would help build bridges between Hearts FC and their supporters/customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nelly Terraces Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Coming at it from another angle, I wonder why the Evening News, or any other newspaper, hasn't asked them about something like this. I wonder what the answer would be if they did? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Phone the ticket office and ask, if they are honest it will be under 8,000. 8 fecking thousand is a big kick in the family jewels to vlad i think , what now is his plan for at the moment he must be raging and whos fault is it , about time he took a long good look in the mirror and asks himself "dive,dive,dive". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I wouldnt believe the figures anyway What will be will be come August Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poseidon Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Coming at it from another angle, I wonder why the Evening News, or any other newspaper, hasn't asked them about something like this. I wonder what the answer would be if they did? The Evening news would be embarrassed printing it, since it's still probably more than the Hobos have shifted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonjambo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The difference being, M&S have customers. We are supporters, not customers. Although it appears Vlad wants to treat us like customers. Which means he deserves NO loyalty from us. Well, to be fair, we are both JR. We are a business which turns over in excess of ?10m per annum. That business has customers who are incredibly brand loyal (as does M&S). Whether that is a sensible (or reciprocated) loyalty is a different story and the number of people on that other thread talking about regretting renwing ST's makes you wonder sometimes. My point was a similar one to the one I made on another thread. We live in an age where information is so readily available that if news is not delivered to us instantly, we get cross even if that news is bad news. This doesnt make sense to me. If its so important to you to know how many season books we've sold, ask the club. They might tell you but then again, they might not. I agree with MCS that honesty is something which Hearts supporters feel has been lacking. Honesty and trust. "Trust" was the key buzzword at the London Hearts meeting with CO and he took our points on board on that. However, to say that the club lacks honesty because its PR department does not put out bad news stories is, I think, stretching it a little too far. GC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevmacd Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The club are probably hoping that the uncertainty over the number of tickets sold (and so the number still available) will force anyone still mulling it over to dive in and buy theirs. They'll probably announce next week that they are limiting the ST sales to 11,500 this year as they plan to knock down the old stand prior to the end of the season. Anyone ready to panic buy yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Well, to be fair, we are both JR. We are a business which turns over in excess of ?10m per annum. That business has customers who are incredibly brand loyal (as does M&S). Agree to an extent, but I don't think ANY shop has the sort of loyalty football teams have - lifelong, and refusal to ever shop at a rival.... My point was a similar one to the one I made on another thread. We live in an age where information is so readily available that if news is not delivered to us instantly, we get cross even if that news is bad news. This doesnt make sense to me. If its so important to you to know how many season books we've sold, ask the club. They might tell you but then again, they might not. It's not all that important to me. Just another sign that they think we are stupid. If it was good news, it'd be all over the website. It's not, so it ain't, and they appear to actually think we're stupid enough to fall for that. I agree with MCS that honesty is something which Hearts supporters feel has been lacking. Honesty and trust. "Trust" was the key buzzword at the London Hearts meeting with CO and he took our points on board on that. We raised the same point a couple of years back, and felt our points had been taken on board. Unfortunately, I've seen no change at all. There is no more honesty now than there was up till that point. I hope LondonHearts has more success than we did getting the importance of honesty accross. However, to say that the club lacks honesty because its PR department does not put out bad news stories is, I think, stretching it a little too far. GC Agree it's stretching it. But regardless, I think it's a well proven fact that the club hasn't been honest with us over the past few years, and in fact, has been deliberately dishonest as well, which is a lot worse in my book. Nice to get a bit of real debate on here for once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Well, to be fair, we are both JR. We are a business which turns over in excess of ?10m per annum. That business has customers who are incredibly brand loyal (as does M&S). Whether that is a sensible (or reciprocated) loyalty is a different story and the number of people on that other thread talking about regretting renwing ST's makes you wonder sometimes. My point was a similar one to the one I made on another thread. We live in an age where information is so readily available that if news is not delivered to us instantly, we get cross even if that news is bad news. This doesnt make sense to me. If its so important to you to know how many season books we've sold, ask the club. They might tell you but then again, they might not. I agree with MCS that honesty is something which Hearts supporters feel has been lacking. Honesty and trust. "Trust" was the key buzzword at the London Hearts meeting with CO and he took our points on board on that. However, to say that the club lacks honesty because its PR department does not put out bad news stories is, I think, stretching it a little too far. GC Has the Q&A you had with CO been reported and put up on the internet yet, I remember you saying earlier that was the plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudolf's Mate Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Very, very unusual for a club to start the public sale without stating how many have gone to renewals! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Marks and Spencers today announced that the new range of socks introduced over the winter had been a complete disaster area and that they had sold only about a tenth of their expected throughput. A spokesman said "Yes, the socks were absolutely minging and we've sold about three pairs nationwide but in the interests of fairness, we thought we'd better tell our customers about our failings and possibly even hold a press conference to do it. There's some really naff ties we might tell them about too". As he was being led away by security, the spokesman said "Yeah but come on, its only fair ... we announce things when they go well, don't we ... ". GC Heehee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo83 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I hope there's a few people in section E lower not renewing. Not because I don't like them, but I want to move out of the wet zone in row 5 to row 7 or 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MackaysCentreSpot Posted June 3, 2008 Author Share Posted June 3, 2008 Well, to be fair, we are both JR. We are a business which turns over in excess of ?10m per annum. That business has customers who are incredibly brand loyal (as does M&S). Whether that is a sensible (or reciprocated) loyalty is a different story and the number of people on that other thread talking about regretting renwing ST's makes you wonder sometimes. My point was a similar one to the one I made on another thread. We live in an age where information is so readily available that if news is not delivered to us instantly, we get cross even if that news is bad news. This doesnt make sense to me. If its so important to you to know how many season books we've sold, ask the club. They might tell you but then again, they might not. I agree with MCS that honesty is something which Hearts supporters feel has been lacking. Honesty and trust. "Trust" was the key buzzword at the London Hearts meeting with CO and he took our points on board on that. However, to say that the club lacks honesty because its PR department does not put out bad news stories is, I think, stretching it a little too far. GC I never said that GC. All I meant was if the club announced the actual number of ST renewed then the supporters would maybe feel that even if it was bad news at least as a club on the whole were being upfront and honest. Thats all we as supporters want is it not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonjambo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Agree to an extent, but I don't think ANY shop has the sort of loyalty football teams have - lifelong, and refusal to ever shop at a rival.... It's not all that important to me. Just another sign that they think we are stupid. If it was good news, it'd be all over the website. It's not, so it ain't, and they appear to actually think we're stupid enough to fall for that. We raised the same point a couple of years back, and felt our points had been taken on board. Unfortunately, I've seen no change at all. There is no more honesty now than there was up till that point. I hope LondonHearts has more success than we did getting the importance of honesty accross. Agree it's stretching it. But regardless, I think it's a well proven fact that the club hasn't been honest with us over the past few years, and in fact, has been deliberately dishonest as well, which is a lot worse in my book. Nice to get a bit of real debate on here for once. Sadly the debate ends here because I cant disagree with anything you say. Strangely enough the discussion with CO that we had gave me grounds for renewed optimism but I still didnt (and still wont) renew my season ticket until the club meets its promise made on 1st Jan. GC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
londonjambo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Has the Q&A you had with CO been reported and put up on the internet yet, I remember you saying earlier that was the plan. I havent seen it yet. So, a potted summary .... I think the thing that struck me about the evening was that CO knew exactly what was wrong at the club (as you would expect him to) and knew that appointing a manager and letting him get on with it was actually one of the key priorities because so much else (player transfers and therefore wage structures, scouting etc etc) follows from it. This meeting was before the MM saga but he did tell us that SF would get the chop (which turned out to be accurate) and also said that he would be "bitterly disappointed" if a new manager wasnt in place before pre-season because the club (meaning the Romanovs) are finally beginning to understand the importance of that. For that reason, I would actually be surprised to see them settle for Korobochka (sorry, different thread). What was very interesting was that he gave the impression that up until recently, he had been banging his head against a brick wall somewhat but that there is a new advisor in Lithuania with whom Co is now speaking and they have a much better understanding and he gave the strong impression that this new person was able to translate the concerns and advice which CO was giving to VR much more coherently than had happened before and that that was a large part of the reason for progress. The other thing he said on the playing side was that the wage bill will be hugely trimmed over the next few years - we are currently well over 100% of turnover on wages and we need to be nearer 50%. He also said that the new scouting network would be Scandinavian based and that you shouldnt expect to see too many more South Americans or southern Europeans (and yet, that was before Pinilla's contract was renewed) On the non-playing side, the key buzzword was "trust". He was told time and time again that the club had lost the trust of the fans through everything that had happened. He understood that it was part of his job to win that trust back. We'll see. Having posted that tantalising summary, I'm afraid I have to leave now for the rest of the day but I'll try and deal with any follow ups tomorrow. Apologies but it is my little girl's 4th birthday and she has been promised lunch. GC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest casper Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Sadly the debate ends here because I cant disagree with anything you say. Strangely enough the discussion with CO that we had gave me grounds for renewed optimism but I still didnt (and still wont) renew my season ticket until the club meets its promise made on 1st Jan. GC It's funny how every time people meet with someone from Hearts whether it be in the Diggers or Lithuania, whether it be the fed or Gary MacKay meeting romanov or KB meeting Mann or London Hearts meeting CO or clandestine meetings in Glasgow hotels they always come back with renewed optimism - but nothing ever changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redm Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I never said that GC. All I meant was if the club announced the actual number of ST renewed then the supporters would maybe feel that even if it was bad news at least as a club on the whole were being upfront and honest. Thats all we as supporters want is it not? Yes, we might feel slightly surprised at the honesty but the effects of an announcement like that might not be worth it. How many people who are currently considering/waiting before buying their ST might be put off by news that sales are very low? I'm not suggesting that they are very low btw, I don't actually think they'll be as low as some are predicting....but just for the sake of discussion. Negativity breeds negativity. It's not essential that we know how many have been sold at this time. We do deserve to know before the start of the new season but I'm sure we'll see some figures before then. They're not going to give us a weekly update, nor would I want them to either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Apologies but it is my little girl's 4th birthday and she has been promised lunch. GC My wee boy's three in a week and a half's time, but we feed him lunch everyday. Are we spoiling him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Bapswent Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Hearts owner Romanov playing the market well Date: 03 June 2008 By BARRY ANDERSON HEARTS' debt has reduced from ?36.25million to below the ?30m mark following the outgoing transfers of several first-team players in the last ten months. Whilst the year-ending figures detailed in the club's financial results of last July would terrify most Scottish sides, officials at Tynecastle are entitled to remain relatively relaxed knowing the numbers posted do not provide a true reflection of their ongoing monetary manoeuvrings. Since July 31 last year, when debt peaked at club record levels, the departures of Craig Gordon, Michal Pospisil, Andrius Velicka and, most recently, Roman Bednar, have helped redress balance sheets somewhat. Although players' wages since then have to be factored into the equation, these incomings have satisfied financial experts at Vladimir Romanov's Ukio Bankas Investment Group, who have been scrutinising Hearts' books intensely this year. Bednar officially severed ties with Tynecastle last Friday when West Bromwich Albion wired a ?2.5m sum to complete his transfer following a season-long loan in England. Sunderland, to date, have paid ?8m of Gordon's record ?9m transfer fee with the remainder to follow in conjunction with appearances. The sales of Velicka and Pospisil ? to Viking Stavanger in Norway and Sint-Truiden in Belgium respectively ? are notably more modest but combined they have already earned Hearts more than ?500,000, which could rise to over ?1m depending on appearances. Because the transfers took place after July 31 last year, none of the above figures were present on the income column in March when the club announced their most recent financial statistics. The ?36.25m balance remains the "official" figure to go by until this year's financial results are ascertained, but Hearts have confirmed that their net debt is already significantly reduced. "The outlook for the present financial year (to July 31, 2008] is encouraging and the board and management team of the club are actively engaged in targeting operational break-even for the business in the mid to long-term," said director Sergejus Fedotovas. "Off-field measures have been taken to improve the club's performance, including areas such as corporate governance and general management with the appointment of Campbell Ogilvie as managing director." Although wages and anticipated summer signing costs will impact further on this year's financial results, debt levels are now at a more manageable level. Presently, debt is hovering a mere few million pounds higher than it was near the end of the Chris Robinson era, when Hearts were ?21.5m in the red and facing the haunting prospect of selling Tynecastle and renting Murrayfield in order to retain financial stability. The introduction of Romanov in 2005 allowed the club to stay at their spiritual home. UBIG, Romanov's investment institution which now has assets totalling more than ?425m, edged out Robinson to underwrite the existing debt. With shareholders' permission, they increased it to ?40m last year. Romanov's rewarding policy of selling players for nothing less than their true market value has helped liabilities to fall from ?36.25m to the present figure below ?30m, whilst club revenue since he assumed control has increased 22 per cent from ?8.4m to the present record level of ?10.3m. Payments to acquire players' registrations totalled ?3.822m in the last financial year, but chairman Roman Romanov did not explain the nature of this expense in any detail during April's AGM. That and players' wages aside, the only major expenditure since last summer involves an estimated ?500,000 spent on planning for the proposed ?51m redevelopment of Tynecastle. The official application has cost Hearts around ?1m in total since work began on detailed architectural drawings for submission to City of Edinburgh Council. A less burdensome wage bill could see debt fall further in coming years. Employment costs at Tynecastle for the year to July 31, 2007, were a hefty ?12.49m, up ?2m from the previous year. Even Johnston Carmichael, the club's auditors, expressed concern in their report to shareholders about the viability of sustaining such costs long term. However, previous high earners like Gordon, Takis Fyssas, Edgaras Jankauskas, Paul Hartley, Steven Pressley, Neil McCann and Ibrahim Tall have moved on and their replacements will be granted less inordinate contracts. Gordon took home a basic ?12,000-a-week salary at Hearts, with Fyssas, Jankauskas and Tall on ?10,000 a week and Pressley, Hartley and McCann earning around ?8000 a week. Their combined wages totalling over ?3m a year accounted for a fair portion of the club's annual losses but the challenge to find replacements at a lesser cost will exert any new manager. Romanov, though, has occasionally proven himself adept in the business of sourcing cost-efficient footballers. As an example, the Argentinian player Fernando Screpis earns a basic wage of just ?1500 per week at Hearts. Romanov signed him to FBK Kaunas last summer on a free transfer from Defensores de Belgrano and dispatched him to Edinburgh in January to prove himself an assured and reliable midfielder. At 29, he has three years left on his current contract. Losing many established names can be detrimental to team performance, however, as the season just ended proved. Hearts finished eighth in the SPL and must now rebuild the first-team squad this summer in order to restore credibility. Romanov's previous speculate-to-accumulate approach worked to a degree with 2006 representing the apex of the Russian's tenure. Scottish Cup success complemented a first-ever voyage into the Champions League qualifying rounds but the ostentatious outlook won't be repeated, for incoming players can expect a portion of their pay to be performance-related from now on. Who the new incumbents are and how much they cost will, of course, be detailed on next year's balance sheet. Hearts are still some way off self-sufficiency but, for now, supporters can be confident that the club's financial predicament is considerably less perilous than it might seem. 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Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Negativity breeds negativity. Just as openness and honesty breeds trust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamboinglasgow Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I havent seen it yet. So, a potted summary .... I think the thing that struck me about the evening was that CO knew exactly what was wrong at the club (as you would expect him to) and knew that appointing a manager and letting him get on with it was actually one of the key priorities because so much else (player transfers and therefore wage structures, scouting etc etc) follows from it. This meeting was before the MM saga but he did tell us that SF would get the chop (which turned out to be accurate) and also said that he would be "bitterly disappointed" if a new manager wasnt in place before pre-season because the club (meaning the Romanovs) are finally beginning to understand the importance of that. For that reason, I would actually be surprised to see them settle for Korobochka (sorry, different thread). What was very interesting was that he gave the impression that up until recently, he had been banging his head against a brick wall somewhat but that there is a new advisor in Lithuania with whom Co is now speaking and they have a much better understanding and he gave the strong impression that this new person was able to translate the concerns and advice which CO was giving to VR much more coherently than had happened before and that that was a large part of the reason for progress. The other thing he said on the playing side was that the wage bill will be hugely trimmed over the next few years - we are currently well over 100% of turnover on wages and we need to be nearer 50%. He also said that the new scouting network would be Scandinavian based and that you shouldnt expect to see too many more South Americans or southern Europeans (and yet, that was before Pinilla's contract was renewed) On the non-playing side, the key buzzword was "trust". He was told time and time again that the club had lost the trust of the fans through everything that had happened. He understood that it was part of his job to win that trust back. We'll see. Having posted that tantalising summary, I'm afraid I have to leave now for the rest of the day but I'll try and deal with any follow ups tomorrow. Apologies but it is my little girl's 4th birthday and she has been promised lunch. GC k thanks for that, an interesting read, hopefully a new manager in the next few weeks will show the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rab Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The difference being, M&S have customers. We are supporters, not customers. Although it appears Vlad wants to treat us like customers. Which means he deserves NO loyalty from us. Do you honestly believe that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroonlegions Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Although wages and anticipated summer signing costs will impact further on this year's financial results, debt levels are now at a more manageable level. are we getting quality signings or what the above statement can AFFORD:rolleyes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Do you honestly believe that? Maybe didn't phrase it the best. Thats how I see myself - a supporter, not a customer. If HMFC was anything other than my football team (e.g. a shop), i'd have switched brand long ago - the moment I realised they were taking the **** out of me with their lies. But it's my football team, so I can't! I feel that HMFC are treating us like customers, not supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Maybe didn't phrase it the best. Thats how I see myself - a supporter, not a customer. If HMFC was anything other than my football team (e.g. a shop), i'd have switched brand long ago - the moment I realised they were taking the **** out of me with their lies. But it's my football team, so I can't! I feel that HMFC are treating us like customers, not supporters. I think that last sentence puts our dilemma in a nutshell JR GC has summarised the London Hearts meeting very well. The "trust question" was put time and again. It is the crux of our difficulties. We have lost trust in what our Club says. We made it clear to CO what would restore that trust, with a managerial appointment being the obvious start. We need a sign! BRIAN: Go away! FOLLOWERS: A blessing! A blessing! ARTHUR: How shall we go away, Master?! BRIAN: Oh, just go away! Leave me alone! SHOE FOLLOWER: Give us a sign! ARTHUR: He has given us a sign! He has brought us to this place! BRIAN: I didn't bring you here! You just followed me! SHOE FOLLOWER: Oh, it's still a good sign by any standard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I think that last sentence puts our dilemma in a nutshell JR GC has summarised the London Hearts meeting very well. The "trust question" was put time and again. It is the crux of our difficulties. We have lost trust in what our Club says. We made it clear to CO what would restore that trust, with a managerial appointment being the obvious start. We need a sign! Then you know where I was at after our JKB meetings with HMFC 18 months ago. About the same position you're in now. And I'm guessing, if in 18 months time, they're still doing the same as before, and another group meets HMFC and is given the same sort of indications as you've just had, you'll maybe understand where I've been coming from over the past year or so..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Then you know where I was at after our JKB meetings with HMFC 18 months ago. About the same position you're in now. And I'm guessing, if in 18 months time, they're still doing the same as before, and another group meets HMFC and is given the same sort of indications as you've just had, you'll maybe understand where I've been coming from over the past year or so..... mmmmm not sure I'm on that unhappy train yet JR, but i do have a queasy feeling from the ride on the happy train at the moment. I think as long as the train announcer is CO I'll probably not join you yet . If he goes, that to me would a sure sign we are in the doo doo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walton1983 Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Phone the ticket office and ask, if they are honest it will be under 8,000. Just going back to the loyal 8000 or so who always bought seasons. The pay at the gate supporters will depend on results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 mmmmm not sure I'm on that unhappy train yet JR, Not suggesting you should be unhappy. Point is, I came out of the JKB meetings pretty optimistic about the changes we were told were happening and had already happened to sort out the problems. But none of those changes happened, and 18 months later, they're talking to another group, promising similar changes, to fix the same problems............. I guess I'm saying, I hope they actually do something this time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Not suggesting you should be unhappy. I thought that was your general idea for all of us? Seriously though, I think we are in a different (and potentially much worse) place than we were then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomsoca Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I havent seen it yet. So, a potted summary .... I think the thing that struck me about the evening was that CO knew exactly what was wrong at the club (as you would expect him to) and knew that appointing a manager and letting him get on with it was actually one of the key priorities because so much else (player transfers and therefore wage structures, scouting etc etc) follows from it. This meeting was before the MM saga but he did tell us that SF would get the chop (which turned out to be accurate) and also said that he would be "bitterly disappointed" if a new manager wasnt in place before pre-season because the club (meaning the Romanovs) are finally beginning to understand the importance of that. For that reason, I would actually be surprised to see them settle for Korobochka (sorry, different thread). What was very interesting was that he gave the impression that up until recently, he had been banging his head against a brick wall somewhat but that there is a new advisor in Lithuania with whom Co is now speaking and they have a much better understanding and he gave the strong impression that this new person was able to translate the concerns and advice which CO was giving to VR much more coherently than had happened before and that that was a large part of the reason for progress. The other thing he said on the playing side was that the wage bill will be hugely trimmed over the next few years - we are currently well over 100% of turnover on wages and we need to be nearer 50%. He also said that the new scouting network would be Scandinavian based and that you shouldnt expect to see too many more South Americans or southern Europeans (and yet, that was before Pinilla's contract was renewed) Having posted that tantalising summary, I'm afraid I have to leave now for the rest of the day but I'll try and deal with any follow ups tomorrow. Apologies but it is my little girl's 4th birthday and she has been promised lunch. GC Many thanks for the update, it's a little encouraging that some of the fans concerns are understood. It's also good to hear some honest answers to the problems that are critical to getting the train back on the tracks. The main concern IMHO is the continuing cost of wages for under performing players being over 100% of the clubs income. With the clubs income now falling along with the lack of success at the club, this particular problem will only get worse, not better. I can see a permanent policy of selling any quality players as the way the club is intending to resolve this. It would seem to me that a massive squad reduction would be a better alternative. That way players who remained would get a run in the team and hopefully improve with the extra game time. It would also help the development of younger players who could see the first team as a realistic target. This would allow wage bill to become more manageable in one swift step. However, this would be an obvious and simple solution, and the club doesn't do "sensible", when "ridiculous" is still an option. Again, thanks for the update, and I hope you all enjoyed the Birthday lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Just as openness and honesty breeds trust. And familiarity breeds contempt. Next! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 It would seem to me that a massive squad reduction would be a better alternative. That way players who remained would get a run in the team and hopefully improve with the extra game time. It would also help the development of younger players who could see the first team as a realistic target. This would allow wage bill to become more manageable in one swift step. However, this would be an obvious and simple solution, and the club doesn't do "sensible", when "ridiculous" is still an option. Again, thanks for the update, and I hope you all enjoyed the Birthday lunch. The problem is that with many players on contracts with years to run, that is not an option. The salary for Screpis is being quoted as a reasonable sounding ?1,500 per week. He has a three year contract - he will not leave for anything less than he is getting with us. If we were to buy him out of his contract it would cost ?200,000. Multiply that by the number of players you are thinking should leave and you realise the scale of the problem. My guess from what Ogilvie said was we are looking at a greater numbe rof hiigher paid players being allowed to leave at contract end, with fewer, lower paid players replacing them - a few bought in, but mostly through the youth system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I thought that was your general idea for all of us? Seriously though, I think we are in a different (and potentially much worse) place than we were then Fair enough. I see us in exactly the same position now. Hugely in debt, and clearly in need of a manager who is allowed to do his job. But still a club that pays BY FAR the 3rd biggest wages in the SPL, and with huge potential fan base if we can put a decent team on the park. So when they talk about changes to deal with the problems, I hope they really mean it this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rudi must stay Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 I have noticed that Hearts PR machine is quick enough to give out stats when they are in their favour. Still awaiting Hearts to announce how many ST holders actually renewed this season but I think they will go along the road of hanging off until the public sale kicks in and just announce a total figure. Covering up the cracks comes to mind. what they going to say like 'sales are **** cos so's the team'. No football club is that honest, they are always going to spin things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 And familiarity breeds contempt. Next! Feel free to explain why HMFC want to breed contempt? They say they want to regain the trust of fans - I think thats a simple thing to achieve, via openness and honesty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamboRobbo Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 The problem is that with many players on contracts with years to run, that is not an option. The salary for Screpis is being quoted as a reasonable sounding ?1,500 per week. He has a three year contract - he will not leave for anything less than he is getting with us. If we were to buy him out of his contract it would cost ?200,000. Multiply that by the number of players you are thinking should leave and you realise the scale of the problem. My guess from what Ogilvie said was we are looking at a greater numbe rof hiigher paid players being allowed to leave at contract end, with fewer, lower paid players replacing them - a few bought in, but mostly through the youth system Teams like Utd and Motherwell have shown how easy it is to put in a challenge for third on a wage budget of 2M quid. With our budget of between 10 and 12M, we should find it almost impossible to fail.......yet we've managed to fail two years running...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 And familiarity breeds contempt. Next! You're right mate - and most of us are more than familiar with Romanov and his methods by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Feel free to explain why HMFC want to breed contempt? They say they want to regain the trust of fans - I think thats a simple thing to achieve, via openness and honesty. It's a well known saying just as yours is. Just waiting for a roll out of many more clich?s! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissthebadge Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 It's a well known saying just as yours is. Just waiting for a roll out of many more clich?s! loose lips, sink ships. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott herbertson Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 Teams like Utd and Motherwell have shown how easy it is to put in a challenge for third on a wage budget of 2M quid. With our budget of between 10 and 12M, we should find it almost impossible to fail.......yet we've managed to fail two years running...... I wouldn't say it's easy - teams like Aberdeen and Hibs have more often than not failed to put in or sustain a challenge on budgets of ?3-4 million. There's something you need to make a challenge but I'll leave you to say what the missing ingredient is..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seymour M Hersh Posted June 3, 2008 Share Posted June 3, 2008 You're right mate - and most of us are more than familiar with Romanov and his methods by now. You're meant to add a new cliche!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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