Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So now that a public enquiry has confirmed what everybody already knew, where to now for our relations with Mother Russia? Is this act of "state sponsored nuclear terrorism" a step too far - or will we shit it, as usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William H. Bonney Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We should poison Putin's tea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bridge of Djoum Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 So now that a public enquiry has confirmed what everybody already knew, where to now for our relations with Mother Russia? Is this act of "state sponsored nuclear terrorism" a step too far - or will we shit it, as usual? Not sure what you mean by, ''shit it, as usual''? Where is the precedent? To which usual do you refer? The UK government tried to have them extradited, but Russia's constitution doesn't allow it. What do you suggest the next step should be then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Not sure what you mean by, ''shit it, as usual''? Where is the precedent? To which usual do you refer? The UK government tried to have them extradited, but Russia's constitution doesn't allow it. What do you suggest the next step should be then? How about the expusion of all Russian 'diplomatic' staff from the UK. How about finding a way of breaking our reliance on Russian hydrocarbons. How about buzzing the borders of Russian airspace with our tactical bombers the way they do with ours? We will do none of the above or variations thereof. We are scared of Russia (rightly so), and will make some token moves - further requests for extradition etc, but that's it. That counts as shitting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartex Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Why are Russia such dicks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Cool, so we've spent a decade and millions of pounds to come to the same conclusion everyone in the world knew the day after? We still won't "do" anything about it and with Russia not extraditing their isn't a great deal we could do either. Even then, Litvinenko was effectively a Russian "traitor" who committed treason, this wasnt just a random citizen it was a member of the FSB who initially tried to go over to the US before applying for asylum in UK. Even then his 'asylum' included working for MI6, calling Putin a paedophile without any proof and accusing Russia of virtually every assassination or terrorist attack in the world again without real proof. Not exactly keeping a low profile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sraman Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 How about stop wasting millions of pounds on inquiries that come up with a conclusion of "probably"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
williejamiesonlesftfoot Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Russia would kick our ***** in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riddley Walker Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 This whole thing has been a huge piece of propaganda. SHOCK AS SECRET SERVICE KILLS TRAITOR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quartex Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Russia would kick our ***** in. On our own, sure. But we will never been on our own and the combined power of the UK, France and the US would absolutely annihilate Russia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
i8hibsh Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Why are Russia such dicks? Not too sure they are, they just do things their way and don't give the slightest f word about anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irufushi Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 On our own, sure. But we will never been on our own and the combined power of the UK, France and the US would absolutely annihilate Russia. I wouldn't bank on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 On our own, sure. But we will never been on our own and the combined power of the UK, France and the US would absolutely annihilate Russia. And the entire world into the process as Russia retaliates... And I wouldn't trust the French to join in anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Russia would kick our ***** in. Correct, but they'd get a bloody nose and they know it. It depends how much they fancy that prospect and the inevitable international fall out. Probably a lot less that their posturing would suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Oh dear. Governments have been bumping off people for a very, very long time ! Nothing will be done....just a wee spike in sabre-rattling and normal service will be resumed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Oh dear. Governments have been bumping off people for a very, very long time ! Nothing will be done....just a wee spike in sabre-rattling and normal service will be resumed. Correct, and I have no real issue with the dispatch of Litvenenko as such, but you have to admit, leaving a trail of highly radioactive debris around anothers capital city is a notch or two up from a poisoned golf brolly in the shin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deevers Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 There will be lots of posturing all round about this and that's about all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 I wouldn't trust the French. The rest of your post was superfluous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Why are we meant to care? Country assassinates a traitor. Russia aren't dicks, they are the exact same as the UK/US etc but just from a different perspective, anyone seriously going to argue we won't have did similar abroad, and again, quite right,. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Why are we meant to care? Country assassinates a traitor. Russia aren't dicks, they are the exact same as the UK/US etc but just from a different perspective, anyone seriously going to argue we won't have did similar abroad, and again, quite right,. We have and so have almost every country, just that 99.9% of the time the general public don't know anything about it. The few which do get reported mostly fall into the category of an unexplained accident or suspects unknown and that's the last we hear about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ibrahim Tall Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We have and so have almost every country, just that 99.9% of the time the general public don't know anything about it. The few which do get reported mostly fall into the category of an unexplained accident or suspects unknown and that's the last we hear about it. On that topic, have they explained the agent that apparently locked himself in a suitcase and died of natural causes yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 How about the expusion of all Russian 'diplomatic' staff from the UK. How about finding a way of breaking our reliance on Russian hydrocarbons. How about buzzing the borders of Russian airspace with our tactical bombers the way they do with ours? We will do none of the above or variations thereof. We are scared of Russia (rightly so), and will make some token moves - further requests for extradition etc, but that's it. That counts as shitting it. 1. A few minor staff may get moved on, but I doubt it. 2. Unless we find a major new oil field or start to drill for shale gas or invent a new power source then we don't have much choice but to rely on Russia for fuel. 3. Do you really think that Russia is the only ones playing this game of cat & mouse? NATO including the RAF have been 'Intelligence gathering' close to or over Russian airspace for the last 70 years, as do the US with China and China with India and so on and so forth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo-Jimbo Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 On that topic, have they explained the agent that apparently locked himself in a suitcase and died of natural causes yet? Even Houdini would have struggled with that trick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Anyone seriously going to argue we won't have did similar abroad, and again, quite right,. Aye, that's a given, but how do you think Vladimir would react if we took out someone in Moscow via the polonium method? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 1. A few minor staff may get moved on, but I doubt it. 2. Unless we find a major new oil field or start to drill for shale gas or invent a new power source then we don't have much choice but to rely on Russia for fuel. 3. Do you really think that Russia is the only ones playing this game of cat & mouse? NATO including the RAF have been 'Intelligence gathering' close to or over Russian airspace for the last 70 years, as do the US with China and China with India and so on and so forth. 1. Agreed. We'd shit out of that one. 2. Don't agree. There are alternatives - but not the economic or political will to follow them through (kind of like shitting it, no?). Lack of foresight has backed us into a corner here and uncle Vladimir is rubbing his hands 3. Press them a little harder. Perhaps if we annexed one of our neighbours or shot down a passenger jet to show how ruthless we are they'd be a bit more alarmed by strategic bombers on the edge of their airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 1. A few minor staff may get moved on, but I doubt it. 2. Unless we find a major new oil field or start to drill for shale gas or invent a new power source then we don't have much choice but to rely on Russia for fuel. 3. Do you really think that Russia is the only ones playing this game of cat & mouse? NATO including the RAF have been 'Intelligence gathering' close to or over Russian airspace for the last 70 years, as do the US with China and China with India and so on and so forth. 1. Agreed. We'd shit out of that one. 2. Don't agree. There are alternatives - but not the economic or political will to follow them through (kind of like shitting it, no?). Lack of foresight has backed us into a corner here and uncle Vladimir is rubbing his hands 3. Press them a little harder. Perhaps if we annexed one of our neighbours or shot down a passenger jet to show how ruthless we are they'd be a bit more alarmed by strategic bombers on the edge of their airspace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We have and so have almost every country, just that 99.9% of the time the general public don't know anything about it. The few which do get reported mostly fall into the category of an unexplained accident or suspects unknown and that's the last we hear about it. Of course, I don't give it much thought but when I do, it doesn't take me long to conclude that we and most of other states will have done the same. The grandstanding over this is hypocritical. Aye, that's a given, but how do you think Vladimir would react if we took out someone in Moscow via the polonium method? I actually think they'd be much less likely to turn it into a public thing like the UK has, they are more likely honest about the business of these things and unlikely to want to make a big song and dance about it. They haven't murdered a British citizen or some innocent guy, he was a spy who turned traitor against his state, did he think he'd just get an angry letter in the post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Just imagine if our own government went around conducting summary executions on people we didn't like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 strategic bombers on the edge of their airspace. We could do that if we had any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boris Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Just imagine if our own government went around conducting summary executions on people we didn't like Hahaha - good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 I actually think they'd be much less likely to turn it into a public thing like the UK has, they are more likely honest about the business of these things and unlikely to want to make a big song and dance about it. They haven't murdered a British citizen or some innocent guy, he was a spy who turned traitor against his state, did he think he'd just get an angry letter in the post? I'm absolutely convinced that Putin would use the fact that a British agent had smuggled radioactive material into Moscow and endagered the lives of hundreds of Russian civilians in order to rub out some treacherous agent as a pretext for some incursion or general nastiness elsewhere. The anti Western propaganda machine would make the most of it (a bit like ours will do over the coming days), and his people would lap it all up. Given the absolute disregard that the Russian elite has historically shown for it's people in order to prove a point or further their own aims, I can see why you would think they wouldn't be too arsed about something like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 We could do that if we had any. Another good point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Just imagine if our own government went around conducting summary executions on people we didn't like We can all play whataboutery. What's your opinion on the facts at hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 I'm absolutely convinced that Putin would use the fact that a British agent had smuggled radioactive material into Moscow and endagered the lives of hundreds of Russian civilians in order to rub out some treacherous agent as a pretext for some incursion or general nastiness elsewhere. The anti Western propaganda machine would make the most of it (a bit like ours will do over the coming days), and his people would lap it all up. Given the absolute disregard that the Russian elite has historically shown for it's people in order to prove a point or further their own aims, I can see why you would think they wouldn't be too arsed about something like this. Related to your second paragraph, if they did make a song and dance about it, it would definitely be because it would further their aims somehow and the safety of the Russian people wouldn't even appear on the list of reasons, although it would be the main reason cited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Related to your second paragraph, if they did make a song and dance about it, it would definitely be because it would further their aims somehow and the safety of the Russian people wouldn't even appear on the list of reasons, although it would be the main reason cited. For sure, but before anyone chimes in - I'm not for one minute suggesting that this modus operandi is exclusive to the Russians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 We can all play whataboutery. What's your opinion on the facts at hand? It's a minor incident that's been blown out of all proportion in order to play political games. If we in the west can get away with Iraq and if Israel can get away with killing dozens of Iranian nuclear scientists, Russia can get away with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 It's a minor incident that's been blown out of all proportion in order to play political games. If we in the west can get away with Iraq and if Israel can get away with killing dozens of Iranian nuclear scientists, Russia can get away with this. More whataboutery. You think that leaving a trail of radioactive material through a busy capital city - potentially endangering the health and lives of hundreds of innocent civilians - has been blown out of all proportion? Nae bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dusk_Till_Dawn Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 If russia can blow a passenger plain out of the sky and face no consequences, they can kill a russian spy with impunity too. Waste of time and effort this inquiry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arshavin Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 If he was infact involved with treason against Russia being a former FSB agent, are you saying if a British agent did the same and was about to leak secrets etc you wouldn't expect M15/Mi16 to do the same surely? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Dan Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Vladimir does what Vladimir wants. It's the Russian way and he has taken it to a new level. He's not interested in what we think or do for that matter he has plenty of "friends" around the world who will see him ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 If he was infact involved with treason against Russia being a former FSB agent, are you saying if a British agent did the same and was about to leak secrets etc you wouldn't expect M15/Mi16 to do the same surely? What would you class as 'the same'? Having him bumped off or having him bumped off in the manner he was? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphonseCapone Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 What would you class as 'the same'? Having him bumped off or having him bumped off in the manner he was? Is it the use of the polonium that is your issue more than the actual assassination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 Is it the use of the polonium that is your issue more than the actual assassination? Sort of. The method used showed scant regard for collateral damage in the capital city of a (supposed) friendly nation and key trading partner. That then begs the question - where does a European country such as the UK draw the line with Russia? When is it clear that they're taking liberties and all the sanctions and political posturing you are in a position to direct at them are laughed off. They gave Lugovoy a medal of honour FFS - that's practically waving their boaby in your face. My own view is that at present no European country is in any position to draw any lines with Russia, and that's not a very comforting thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Sort of. The method used showed scant regard for collateral damage in the capital city of a (supposed) friendly nation and key trading partner. That then begs the question - where does a European country such as the UK draw the line with Russia? When is it clear that they're taking liberties and all the sanctions and political posturing you are in a position to direct at them are laughed off. They gave Lugovoy a medal of honour FFS - that's practically waving their boaby in your face. My own view is that at present no European country is in any position to draw any lines with Russia, and that's not a very comforting thought. It might also beg the question, why are we discussing it today ? He was assassinated 10 years ago ! Could it be because the media have jumped on the inquiry and we've suddenly to "take action" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 It might also beg the question, why are we discussing it today ? He was assassinated 10 years ago ! Could it be because the media have jumped on the inquiry and we've suddenly to "take action" ? Probably because the results of the public enquiry have been released today, ergo the issue is once again topical. That was an easy one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aussieh Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Probably because the results of the public enquiry have been released today, ergo the issue is once again topical. That was an easy one. So, what's the UK government trying to hide. By using this as a distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 So, what's the UK government trying to hide. By using this as a distraction. Dunno. Tune me in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Probably because the results of the public enquiry have been released today, ergo the issue is once again topical. That was an easy one. So you've not really been bothered about "a trail of radioactive material" in a Capital city until today ? 10 years is a long time...! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Governor Tarkin Posted January 21, 2016 Author Share Posted January 21, 2016 So you've not really been bothered about "a trail of radioactive material" in a Capital city until today ? 10 years is a long time...! Where did I say that? You asked why we're talking about it now. I gave you a clear and concise answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boab Posted January 21, 2016 Share Posted January 21, 2016 Where did I say that? You asked why we're talking about it now. I gave you a clear and concise answer. Going by your posts, you seem very concerned about the use of a radioactive material in a crowed city. I knew about this 10 years ago...you probably did too....the difference here is that i'm not, NOW, going to jump up and down at those dastardly Russians. threatening our health ! The media shout boooo.....the public shout booooo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
64,122
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.