American revolution.(Gun control)

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

Russia,

Are they not in Europe?.

 

Yes, 23% of it is considered to be Europe, the other 77% is Asia.  Population wise the majority of Russians are in Europe. 

 

So the landmass of Europe and European Russia is equivalent to the land mass of the US. 

[aussieh]

Yes, 23% of it is considered to be Europe, the other 77% is Asia. Population wise the majority of Russians are in Europe.

 

So the landmass of Europe and European Russia is equivalent to the land mass of the US.

You counting Alaska then.

[aussieh]

Yes, 23% of it is considered to be Europe, the other 77% is Asia. Population wise the majority of Russians are in Europe.

 

So the landmass of Europe and European Russia is equivalent to the land mass of the US.

Europe 10.2 m sqkm 750m people.

USA 9.6 m sqkm 321m people.

Edited January 5, 2016 by aussieh

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

Europe 10.2 m sqkm 750m people.

USA 9.6 m sqkm 321m people.

 

So a trifling .6m sq km difference.  

 

Anyway - the point is - that you have an area ALMOST the size of Europe with a real mix and difference of cultures - just like Europe. 

[Ray Gin]

Obama takes executive action.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35236630

 

All sounds sensible enough. Unless you are one of these dimwits:
 

 

 

"Republican candidate Senator Ted Cruz tweeted that the executive actions are unconstitutional, with a link to sign up for his campaign correspondence on a webpage that says "Obama wants your guns" with a photo of the president in an army jacket and hat. 

Former Florida governor Jeb Bush tweeted that he would repeal the actions and protect the Second Amendment."

 

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by Ray Gin

[Stephen Muddie]

Somebody should make a smiley comparing Obama taking the guns away with China taking their people's guns away before they mercilessly ****ed them.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Somebody should make a smiley comparing Obama taking the guns away with China taking their people's guns away before they mercilessly messed them.

:tim:

[michael_bolton]

There are a few things here I'd like to say to our US chums - when we talk about 90% support for gun control, we are talking about them controlling them in a similar way to a loan application, we are not actually talking about banning guns. The % swings back the other way when you start to talk about support for the 2nd Ammendment and actually banning people from owning guns.

 

What would be the % that would support the introduction of the gun legislation in the US that matches that in the UK? I would guess that the UK laws are supported by well over 90% of UK citizens, so when you start to look at it from each others perspective you can see how utterly bizarre the US looks from over here.

 

The answer lies above in this thread ad has been said many times, ban bullets!!

 

27% of Americans would like handguns to be banned. 43% say they have a gun somewhere in the house. http://www.gallup.com/poll/186236/americans-desire-stricter-gun-laws-sharply.aspx

 

So, 73% of Americans are quite happy for the continuation of ownership of handguns by the general public. As has been said before, I don't think our American-resident friends can understand how absolutely barmy that seems to those of us who have never lived in a gun-nuts country. It's insane.

 

I'm looking, but can't find comparable figures for UK opinion.

[michael_bolton]

Found this interesting quote,

 

 

"Guns are not cool. They're not fun toys to have, and it doesn't make society safer to have lots of them in circulation. Most tellingly, our police are quite happy with a situation where even they are not armed; a 2006 survey of their members by the Police Federation of England and Wales found that 82 percent of respondents were opposed to the routine arming of police officers. If the police don't think they need guns, then why would anyone else?

 

And it is that question that reveals the historical difference between the U.K. and the U.S. on this issue. When gun lobbyists in the U.S. cite the Constitution, they tell us that the right to bear arms exists so that the people can defend themselves from an oppressive state, but when the Metropolitan Police were formed in London in 1829, they went for the opposite approach and decided that the police should not be armed in order to assert the principle that they maintained order by consent rather than by force. It may be a philosophical point, but it possibly helps to explain the gulf in gun attitudes between Britain and the U.S."

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/quora/2014/05/01/gun_laws_in_the_u_k_do_british_people_prefer_handgun_restrictions.html

[Hugh Phamism]

Can't remember the exact figure, but it was reported on the BBC News last night; that in 2014 (excluding suicides) there were 20 odd gun killings in the UK. On Christmas Day 2015 alone, in the USA, there were 48.

 

Staggering.

[Don Draper]

[Fourcandles]

Anyone know how many gun homicides in Scotland last year,

Not accidental discharges or suicides,

 

?

[Cade]

Anyone know how many gun homicides in Scotland last year,

Not accidental discharges or suicides,

 

?

Latest figures we have are for 2012/13, with 5 people being killed by firearms in Scotland.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Cade

[Rab]

Not sure how this turned into a comparison between the UK and the US. But seeing as it has, I agree public opinion is totally different in the 2 countries 

[Rab]

Because the American residents on here are very sensitive to criticism, especially generalised for the whole country. I think in the last few posts we have demonstrated why people talk about guns in the US using terms like nut jobs. I will never understand why 3/4 of the country support gun ownership.

 

That's because you're applying your UK perspective to a US problem. As long as you and others do that, you'll never understand what's going on. That's what the American residents are trying to tell you.

[Captain Sausage]

Pretty easy to lay on with the Yankee bashing but like Rab and others have pointed out, it's a cultural difference at an ideological level.

 

I do find it hilarious that so many kick backers get up on a high horse about how thick and backwards Americans are (not just this thread!). America is a great, diverse country which has a different culture to the UK.

 

FWIW, I do find it astounding that the NRA holds so much sway. Due to the way the voting structure works in the US, the House of Representatives is far from representative.

 

It's a while since I did US history but if I remember right, the republicans played some games which allowed them to get smaller rural populations a similar voice to large urban populations. The result was a skew in favour of the typically republican rural communities, despite a lower overall vote. (Similar I guess to the large SNP contingent in Westminster despite the relative size of their constituency). Long story short, a relatively small number of right wing gun toting idiot voters are actively voting and make their opinion known through the NRA.

 

The only way around that is for more people to vote, therefore diluting the crazies and reducing the importance of the NRA.

[aussieh]

Pretty easy to lay on with the Yankee bashing but like Rab and others have pointed out, it's a cultural difference at an ideological level.

 

I do find it hilarious that so many kick backers get up on a high horse about how thick and backwards Americans are (not just this thread!). America is a great, diverse country which has a different culture to the UK.

 

FWIW, I do find it astounding that the NRA holds so much sway. Due to the way the voting structure works in the US, the House of Representatives is far from representative.

 

It's a while since I did US history but if I remember right, the republicans played some games which allowed them to get smaller rural populations a similar voice to large urban populations. The result was a skew in favour of the typically republican rural communities, despite a lower overall vote. (Similar I guess to the large SNP contingent in Westminster despite the relative size of their constituency). Long story short, a relatively small number of right wing gun toting idiot voters are actively voting and make their opinion known through the NRA.

 

The only way around that is for more people to vote, therefore diluting the crazies and reducing the importance of the NRA.

Guns, nukes, death penalty, foreign policy, Killings an American Sport

Loonies.

[Captain Sausage]

Guns, nukes, death penalty, foreign policy, Killings an American Sport

Loonies.

I've seen you floating around the shed, Aussieh. I've come to the conclusion that you don't know a great deal about much, and what you do know is either wrong or misinterpreted to the point it might as well be wrong

 

If you want a reasoned debate, please contribute. If you're just going to fire pointless nonsense into the mix, feel free but understand it doesn't make you come across as smart and edgy, it comes across as an attention seeker posting nonsense.

[The Real Maroonblood]

Because the American residents on here are very sensitive to criticism, especially generalised for the whole country. I think in the last few posts we have demonstrated why people talk about guns in the US using terms like nut jobs. I will never understand why 3/4 of the country support gun ownership.

America is still the Wild West.

It's a young country and people have to be educated.

[aussieh]

I've seen you floating around the shed, Aussieh. I've come to the conclusion that you don't know a great deal about much, and what you do know is either wrong or misinterpreted to the point it might as well be wrong

 

If you want a reasoned debate, please contribute. If you're just going to fire pointless nonsense into the mix, feel free but understand it doesn't make you come across as smart and edgy, it comes across as an attention seeker posting nonsense.

[fabienleclerq]

Not sure how this turned into a comparison between the UK and the US. But seeing as it has, I agree public opinion is totally different in the 2 countries

 

Think that was you or the other US bsed kickbackers that done that tbh. One of which now carries a gun to church...

[fabienleclerq]

Pretty easy to lay on with the Yankee bashing but like Rab and others have pointed out, it's a cultural difference at an ideological level.

 

I do find it hilarious that so many kick backers get up on a high horse about how thick and backwards Americans are (not just this thread!). America is a great, diverse country which has a different culture to the UK.

 

FWIW, I do find it astounding that the NRA holds so much sway. Due to the way the voting structure works in the US, the House of Representatives is far from representative.

 

It's a while since I did US history but if I remember right, the republicans played some games which allowed them to get smaller rural populations a similar voice to large urban populations. The result was a skew in favour of the typically republican rural communities, despite a lower overall vote. (Similar I guess to the large SNP contingent in Westminster despite the relative size of their constituency). Long story short, a relatively small number of right wing gun toting idiot voters are actively voting and make their opinion known through the NRA.

 

The only way around that is for more people to vote, therefore diluting the crazies and reducing the importance of the NRA.

How dare you live in the states and talk about the snp?!!

 

Nobody is saying there aren't many great things about America but the threads about their awful stance on guns. If it was Germany they'd get it tight as would Australia. You guys are getting far too defensive to quickly, it's like unless you've lived in America you don't think people are allowed an opinion on it.

[aussieh]

I've seen you floating around the shed, Aussieh. I've come to the conclusion that you don't know a great deal about much, and what you do know is either wrong or misinterpreted to the point it might as well be wrong

 

If you want a reasoned debate, please contribute. If you're just going to fire pointless nonsense into the mix, feel free but understand it doesn't make you come across as smart and edgy, it comes across as an attention seeker posting nonsense.

I tell what I do know, I live next door to Houston, the real a Houston, where they pronounce it properly.

Hoo ston.

[Captain Sausage]

How dare you live in the states and talk about the snp?!!

 

Nobody is saying there aren't many great things about America but the threads about their awful stance on guns. If it was Germany they'd get it tight as would Australia. You guys are getting far too defensive to quickly, it's like unless you've lived in America you don't think people are allowed an opinion on it.

I live in Aberdeen these days...

 

I think you're misreading the comments from the American based posters. Unless you've lived in America, you won't understand the cultural differences which go someways to explaining why some people think like they do.

 

Without that understanding, a lot of what you read comes across as mental (even with that understanding, a lot of it seems batshit crazy). But a lot of the posters here fail to grasp the difference in culture (whether accidentally or otherwise) and come out with comments which are plain ignorant.

 

I posted earlier trying to explain why the NRA is so influential. The answer is to increase voter turnout to reduce the influence of the group and in turn allow less rabid response to firearm restrictions.

 

But I guess it's easier to call Americans out for being crazy, fat, uneducated morons, unlike the bastion of intelligence and health that is Scotland.

[Captain Sausage]

I tell what I do know, I live next door to Houston, the real a Houston, where they pronounce it properly.

Hoo ston.

That's how the yanks pronounce the Texan one too.

[AlphonseCapone]

How many of the American based posters are American out of interest?

[Rab]

it's like unless you've lived in America you don't think people are allowed an opinion on it.

 

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, but if you want to have a serious conversation about the issue, you should try to have an informed one.

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

What exactly is there to be informed about? We know what guns are, we know that you can buy them easily in the US and we know that there is a lot of people in the US killed with guns every day.

 

Given all the information available then you would have to be an idiot to think that gun ownership in the general population was a good thing. 75% of Americans are therefor idiots.

 

Again - go back to Houston's post - yes, you can be informed about guns, their easy availability in the US and the number of people killed by them each day. However, i'm Scottish, spent 32 years in Scotland holding many of the same perceptions and attitudes towards the US as have been exhibited on this thread, i've now spent nearly 10 years living here and while i'm still opposed to gun control/banning guns etc (as well as paying for healthcare, the political system being skewed etc) i have also been lucky enough to spend time in many parts of the country and understand the vast cultural differences between a UK perspective on guns and a US perspective on them.  I'm not saying that the US culture is right - i'm saying it helps to understand the culture and nuances to help give you more of an understanding around what is perceived as crazy from an 'outside' perspective. I don't think the US is the greatest country in the world, i agree that from an outside perspective it looks totally mental, when you spend years working with Americans and in America you get to understand the why - which then gives you a more informed opinion. 

 

Probably rambled a bit much there and please note - it's not a criticism of anyone, just my 2 cents (or tuppence worth)

[michael_bolton]

 I'm not saying that the US culture is right - i'm saying it helps to understand the culture and nuances to help give you more of an understanding around what is perceived as crazy from an 'outside' perspective. I don't think the US is the greatest country in the world, i agree that from an outside perspective it looks totally mental, when you spend years working with Americans and in America you get to understand the why - which then gives you a more informed opinion. 

 

 

 

So, basically you're saying that you agree with us that they're nuts. But you just understand them more.

 

I don't really see any difference. American views on guns are bonkers. Where you live or how much you understand the culture doesn't change the fact that broad support for something that causes so much suffering is utterly moronic.

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

So, basically you're saying that you agree with us that they're nuts. But you just understand them more.

 

I don't really see any difference. American views on guns are bonkers. Where you live or how much you understand the culture doesn't change the fact that broad support for something that causes so much suffering is utterly moronic.

 

Ha - not quite.  I believe the opposition to any gun control is nuts, I also believe that the NRA and other pro gun organizations are nuts,  i don't believe Americans are nuts. I also have a better understanding of why the gun question is so difficult to navigate and what i'm saying is that it's not as simple as "Americans are nuts" or to use your words - moronic.

[michael_bolton]

Ha - not quite.  I believe the opposition to any gun control is nuts, I also believe that the NRA and other pro gun organizations are nuts,  i don't believe Americans are nuts. I also have a better understanding of why the gun question is so difficult to navigate and what i'm saying is that it's not as simple as "Americans are nuts" or to use your words - moronic.

 

I didn't say Americans are moronic. I think you are deliberately missing the nuance. I think American views on guns are moronic. That's different from thinking the people themselves are moronic.

 

I live in an Islamic country with muslims from all over the muslim world and I'm growing to understand the culture much more than I did before, I still regard many of the things that happen here as incredibly stupid. But no more so than I did before I arrived. The treatment of women in culture here is ridiculous. I knew that before I lived around muslims. Understanding them a bit better and their motivations doesn't make the way they behave seem any less stupid to me.

 

Yet, you don't seem to grasp this with the guns. America's attitude to guns is demonstrably stupid. You're defending the indefensible.

Edited January 7, 2016 by michael_bolton

[doctor jambo]

I understand the problem that America has.

There are so many weapons available on the street that the first to surrender them would be the law- abiding, non threat individuals.

That would mean that the only people armed are the criminals/ nutters.

You can see why that is a hard sell.

As with many things - most of the deaths will be either criminals killing criminals, or domestics.

The chance of suffering firearms death from a total stranger will still be really small in the USA, so what you are trying to do is disarm the law abiding majority, THEN try and work out how to disarm the gangs

[michael_bolton]

I understand the problem that America has.

There are so many weapons available on the street that the first to surrender them would be the law- abiding, non threat individuals.

That would mean that the only people armed are the criminals/ nutters.

You can see why that is a hard sell.

As with many things - most of the deaths will be either criminals killing criminals, or domestics.

The chance of suffering firearms death from a total stranger will still be really small in the USA, so what you are trying to do is disarm the law abiding majority, THEN try and work out how to disarm the gangs

 

A long-term process of targetting poverty is really the only way to do that. Won't win an election in 10 months' time though.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

The key to understanding the gun debate in the US is the NRA.  (That and the "culture war.")

 

The NRA gets the majority of its funding from the gun manufacturers.  If they get any kind of story they can stir up about the government coming to take guns away, gun sales spike and they laugh all the way to the bank.  They only have 5 million members (roughly 1.5% of the US population) but those members basically vote only on gun control, and a very large percentage of them vote in a country where voter turnout rarely peaks above 50% and for smaller elections can be in the 15-20% range.

 

The NRA is not interested in a conversation, or for solutions, or for anything remotely approaching rational thinking on gun policy.  40 years ago it was a rational organization that was in favor of sensible gun control measures, but it's given itself over to the culture war completely, and at every teeny tiny bit of government control of guns they go full-throated screeching about tyranny.  For example: the Center for Disease Control is banned by Congress from collecting any data on gun violence for the purposes of prevention because the NRA doesn't want any data that show that gun ownership doesn't decrease crime (which it doesn't).  The State of Virginia used to have a policy that any individual could only buy one gun a month, and the NRA lobbied to get it repealed (who the hell needs to buy more than 12 guns a year?).  

 

The Republican party will continue to go all-out to block any effort at gun control, because 1) the NRA is the greatest voter turnout machine in their coalition, and 2) if they don't the NRA will throw its money behind a primary challenger and they'll lose their seat.

 

The reaction to Obama's executive order is a perfect example.  There is absolutely nothing in it that remotely involves taking away guns -- it just mildly widens who has to perform background checks and signals to the gun manufacturers that some federal arms purchases will start requiring "smart gun" technology in the future (if I recall correctly over 40% of gun manufacturers' business is to various governmental agencies).  Even this has the NRA screeching about government tyranny.

 

If we could have a reasoned debate on guns in this country, and actually collect data so that our policy was based on empirical results, we might get somewhere.  Unfortunately, the NRA won't allow that to happen.

[Watt-Zeefuik]

And for those wondering, I don't own a gun, nor do the majority of my friends and family.  A friend of mine took me skeet shooting (actually the guy who wrote this article: https://www.washingtonpost.com/posteverything/wp/2015/06/29/i-love-my-guns-but-i-hate-the-nra/ ) and I had a lot of fun, but I really don't need one at home, and I even live in a "high crime" neighborhood in Richmond.  

[Craig Gordons Gloves]

I didn't say Americans are moronic. I think you are deliberately missing the nuance. I think American views on guns are moronic. That's different from thinking the people themselves are moronic.

 

I live in an Islamic country with muslims from all over the muslim world and I'm growing to understand the culture much more than I did before, I still regard many of the things that happen here as incredibly stupid. But no more so than I did before I arrived. The treatment of women in culture here is ridiculous. I knew that before I lived around muslims. Understanding them a bit better and their motivations doesn't make the way they behave seem any less stupid to me.

 

Yet, you don't seem to grasp this with the guns. America's attitude to guns is demonstrably stupid. You're defending the indefensible.

 

I'm not defending the indefensible, i'm against guns.  My point is that i understand why the gun argument in the US is way more complex than people make it out. 

[Hugh Phamism]

I went to a shooting range once with a work colleague in Connecticut, I just thought it would make a nice change and something different to try. It turned out that he had at least 12 handguns, of varying calibre, locked in the boot (trunk) of his stupid big car (SUV). When he opened the lockbox and I saw what was in it my jaw dropped. He must have seen the look on my face and then went onto say 'it's OK I'm not some kind of gun nut'. I beg to differ...

 

Worth noting that he kept no ammo in the car, and I did have a interesting, and somewhat scary hour of shooting small berretta's up to a 44 Magnum. After feeling the recoil on the Magnum, I politely declined the Colt 45.

 

My colleague appeared to be a normal white collar American, but pity anyone who crossed his path on a bad day.   

[His name is]

[Watt-Zeefuik]

UA, that is all very informative stuff and does help explain the difficulties in getting any legislation tightened up. However what it does not address is that despite all the major mass shooting incidents as well as the general murder rate 3/4 Americans still think you should be able to buy and keep guns.

 

I'm not sure which stat you're referring to with the 3/4 -- how the question is asked makes a lot of difference.  If it's the "23% support a handgun ban," that doesn't mean that 77% said they opposed it, it means that probably 30% said they opposed it and the rest said they didn't know or hadn't thought about it.

 

On the other hand, as far as people who think there should be a general ban on all gun ownership and purchases, I'd say 3/4 is too low.  I don't think there's any need for that.  Hunting is a hugely popular activity here across all walks of life and is widely seen as a fully legitimate reason to own a basic hunting rifle or shotgun.  We are a long, long ways away from banning rifle and shotgun ownership at this point -- I don't know of a single person or party who is proposing that.  Clipless or small clip long guns account for a tiny percentage of gun violence in the country, with semi-automatic rifles and handguns being far, far more problematic.

 

Hell, I'd thrilled at this point if we could just keep the current minimal restrictions on long guns and just require a permit and a safety test for owning handguns or semi-automatics, but according to a very vocal minority that makes me an enemy of freedom.

[cosanostra]

i've now spent nearly 10 years living here and while i'm still opposed to gun control/banning guns etc (as well as paying for healthcare, the political system being skewed etc) i have also been lucky enough to spend time in many parts of the country and understand the vast cultural differences between a UK perspective on guns and a US perspective on them. I'm not saying that the US culture is right - i'm saying it helps to understand the culture and nuances to help give you more of an understanding around what is perceived as crazy from an 'outside' perspective. I don't think the US is the greatest country in the world, i agree that from an outside perspective it looks totally mental, when you spend years working with Americans and in America you get to understand the why - which then gives you a more informed opinion.

 

Probably rambled a bit much there and please note - it's not a criticism of anyone, just my 2 cents (or tuppence worth)

I've also lived in the US and i don't really agree with any of that. I don't think that there are vast cultural differences between us and them. We have or had, similar religious background, lots of immigration and very similar pop culture tastes.

I was only there for a year in the Pacific Northwest and I never saw a gun and didn't know anyone who owned a gun apart from some Alaskan hunter types. Nearly everyone i knew was hugely against guns.

Then i spent some time in Texas and New Mexico. It was gun central in both of those states. The attitude seemed to be "I'm allowed a gun so I'll have a gun" along with "they can come and try to take them from me."

There's no logical reason for owning a handgun so they must just like guns and want to own them because they can.

The people in Northwest were no different to European people in their attitudes. The people in Texas and New Mexico were way into guns and Jesus.

Very strange dichotomy.

[Stephen Muddie]

The people in Northwest were no different to European people in their attitudes. The people in Texas and New Mexico were way into guns and Jesus.

Very strange dichotomy.

Totally get what you're saying. I left out the rest as I wanted to focus on this part but you're right - it's a massive landmass with extremely different sub-cultures throughout, or in pockets.

 

I don't see a great deal of difference between gun and bible wielding fanatics and gun and koran wielding fanatics in that extreme sense.

Edited January 8, 2016 by Stephen Muddie

[cosanostra]

Totally get what you're saying. I left out the rest as I wanted to focus on this part but you're right - it's a massive landmass with extremely different sub-cultures throughout, or in pockets.

I don't see a great deal of difference between gun and bible wielding fanatics and gun and koran wielding fanatics in that extreme sense.

Never really understood the link between guns, Jesus and right wing politics but in some of the Southern states in particular, it's absolutely rife.

One of the commandments is about not killing. Surely that's an important one. Where does shooting burglars or car thiefs and electrocuting criminals to death fit into that exactly?

Very mixed up ideology.

I noticed that the people i met who held those views were largely ignorant, racist and had rarely left US soil.

Compared to the people I know in Oregon, Washington state, California, Massachusetts and New York - they couldn't really be much more different.

[Stephen Muddie]

Pro-lifers who support the death penalty and who think an Arab is synonymous with "bad"... so much fail.

I hear you man. The states you mention are fairly liberal are they not? I suppose it's like how daft folk from Fife or East Lothian might say Edinburgh is full of poofs etc. As if that is necessarily a bad thing. Ie same kind of ignorance as displayed in some southern states. Must be all the fresh air and cattle beefing. (hypocritical ignorance, I know)

Edited January 8, 2016 by Stephen Muddie

[Watt-Zeefuik]

Never really understood the link between guns, Jesus and right wing politics but in some of the Southern states in particular, it's absolutely rife.

One of the commandments is about not killing. Surely that's an important one. Where does shooting burglars or car thiefs and electrocuting criminals to death fit into that exactly?

Very mixed up ideology.

I noticed that the people i met who held those views were largely ignorant, racist and had rarely left US soil.

Compared to the people I know in Oregon, Washington state, California, Massachusetts and New York - they couldn't really be much more different.

 

The Baptist denomination, which for decades was the heart of the evangelical movement, is extremely anti-centralized control -- basically anyone who feels the call to preach can call themselves a Baptist minister, although certain sub-denominations require a little more.  In the south, it got mixed up with race politics as the federal government was seen to be forcing racial integration on the south.

 

There are plenty of us leftists in the south, primarily in the urban areas, we're just a bit more outnumbered here.

[cosanostra]

The Baptist denomination, which for decades was the heart of the evangelical movement, is extremely anti-centralized control -- basically anyone who feels the call to preach can call themselves a Baptist minister, although certain sub-denominations require a little more.  In the south, it got mixed up with race politics as the federal government was seen to be forcing racial integration on the south.

 

There are plenty of us leftists in the south, primarily in the urban areas, we're just a bit more outnumbered here.

Spent some time in Atlanta and found it extremely liberal and generally a great city. Rural Georgia and the Carolinas on the other, not so much.

[NewYorkJambo]

27% of Americans would like handguns to be banned. 43% say they have a gun somewhere in the house. http://www.gallup.com/poll/186236/americans-desire-stricter-gun-laws-sharply.aspx

 

So, 73% of Americans are quite happy for the continuation of ownership of handguns by the general public. As has been said before, I don't think our American-resident friends can understand how absolutely barmy that seems to those of us who have never lived in a gun-nuts country. It's insane.

 

I'm looking, but can't find comparable figures for UK opinion.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/01/07/politics/poll-obama-gun-action/index.html

 

Statistics. They can show whatever you want I guess

[Stephen Muddie]

Spent some time in Atlanta and found it extremely liberal and generally a great city. Rural Georgia and the Carolinas on the other, not so much.

It's maybe a city/country thing. Makes a lot of sense, even if it kind of doesn't on another level. I try not to understand insanity too much haha, cheers.

[Rab]

So, basically you're saying that you agree with us that they're nuts. But you just understand them more.

 

I don't really see any difference. American views on guns are bonkers. Where you live or how much you understand the culture doesn't change the fact that broad support for something that causes so much suffering is utterly moronic.

 

Part of my issue with these discussions are posts like this. To label the collective opinion of 300 million people on a complex issue as nothing more than 'utterly moronic' shows a lack of understanding of any nuance or complexity in the issue. It's nice that you see simple black and white patterns in things like this, but most people realise it's not that simple, and we'd like to have a discussion about it please.

[doctor jambo]

How dare you live in the states and talk about the snp?!!

 

Nobody is saying there aren't many great things about America but the threads about their awful stance on guns. If it was Germany they'd get it tight as would Australia. You guys are getting far too defensive to quickly, it's like unless you've lived in America you don't think people are allowed an opinion on it.

Cologne events would not have happened in the US.........

[MrRobbo10]

You're trolling now Rab