FoH vs Season Ticket Debate

[bigladatthebackpost]

Had a discussion with a fellow Hearts supporter at work this morning and thought I'd see what the assembled masses of Kickback thought.

 

We started talking about the share issue after he asked if my certificate had arrived, then the subject of the Foundation of Hearts direct debit scheme came up after I'd mentioned that i pledge monthly. He couldn't understand why anyone would do that when "they get nothing in return".

 

His argument was that if he buys a season ticket the club get his 400 odd quid and he gets in the gate to watch games. My monthly contribution, in his eyes, gets me nothing back despite being a similar sum.

 

He just wasn't getting that he wouldn't have a match to watch if the Foundation and then Ms Budge hadn't stepped up.

 

He argued that Ann would've bought the club anyway then sold them once stable and back in the Premier.

 

I can almost see where he's coming from, as on the face of it a season ticket seems a better option (I don't have one as I can only manage about a quarter of the games due to work), but it still rankles.

 

His parting shot was that I "don't even even get a T-shirt or **** all".

 

I don't want a T-shirt by the way.

 

Thoughts?

[Boris]

Thoughts?  Your work colleague is an arsehole.

[Yoda]

I have a season ticket & contribute to FOH.  Anything and everything to support the club.

[3fingersreid]

This is only my opinion but he sounds like a right f**

[deejtee]

Not a one or the other question for many of us but if it was I suppose it would have to be a season ticket unless you could not get to games.

[bigladatthebackpost]

Selfish maybe Boris, but I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.

 

And yes, he is definitely an arsehole, but that's nothing new.

[Antwan]

Thoughts?  Your work colleague is an arsehole.

[scottish_chicP]

If I had to choose it would be my season ticket I would keep. Thankfully I'm not in a position where I have to choose.

 

Might want to enlighten your colleague if none of us pledged he wouldn't have a club to buy a season ticket for!

[Central Belt 1874]

Thoughts?  Your work colleague is an arsehole.

 

Haha this.

 

I never signed up to FOH to get something back.

 

Some people will never understand.

[Boris]

Selfish maybe Boris, but I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.

 

And yes, he is definitely an arsehole, but that's nothing new.

 

Hindsight is a wonderful thing for this guy, but I reckon had FoH NOT had the support it generated then Ann Budge may not have stepped up and bought the club.  No Ann Budge and we would never have achieved the CVA and we would have been liquidated.  So his season ticket would have been for FC Hearts in the South Seniors league (or whatever - at a push League 2 but I doubt that).

Wonder if he'd still have bought a season ticket for that?

[Paolo]

I do both, one to help the club and watch Hearts, the other to help the club.

 

If I could not get to games, I would still contribute to FoH.

 

Both are good for the club, and those who do both, or either, are doing they bit.   That should be acknwoledged by everyone.

[Currahee!]

If I had to choose it would be my season ticket I would keep. Thankfully I'm not in a position where I have to choose.

 

Might want to enlighten your colleague if none of us pledged he wouldn't have a club to buy a season ticket for!

 

Very much this.

[BelgeJambo]

if I lived in Scotland I would be doing both, but I don't, so happy to contribute to FOH, JKB and anything else good about/for Hearts  Life wouldn't be complete without the Famous

[WorldChampions1902]

It's not correct to suggest that a ?400 ST gives the club the same as a fan gifting ?400 via FOH. There are all sorts of costs associated with putting on a football match which the club don't have to pay if the money is 'gifted' via FOH. Furthermore, your ?400 FOH pledge is VAT free and the ST isn't. Every penny 'pledged' goes straight towards benefitting the club.

 

I don't care that I get 'nowt for my monthly pledges. My pledges mean that I still have a club to support and I will continue to pledge until I die. I guess that's what makes our fans different from the Vermin.

[Don Dan]

No DD no team/club/ground no need for a season ticket. I find it highly unlikely AB would have bought out the CVA without her invitation from her daughter and FOH.

[bigladatthebackpost]

All good points folks.

 

To give him his due he has held a season ticket for over 20 years but maybe needs a bit of re-education around bigger issues.

 

I'll flick his ears on behalf of all the Kickback aresholes...

[redm]

Wow. I get the feeling he doesn't really understand exactly what happened to us at all (or just how close we would have come to liquidation) without the fans committing to buying the club and Ann Budge having faith in those fans to do as they had promised. This wasn't a standalone plan, it could only work in conjunction with many thousands (often the same people) ALSO buying a season ticket. Not one or the other, it has to be both.

 

We sold a seriously healthy number of season tickets and we're packing out the stadium, yet we'd still be approx 1m under what we need per annum without the income from FOH to tide us over until we get back to the Premiership. That's how much it costs to run a club of our size. Maybe you should try explaining that to him too.

[I.T.K]

I get my club back.

[queensferryjambo]

I had always assumed most people with a season ticket would be avid enough supporters to contribute something to the FOH as well.

 

I can understand if he was skint and could only afford one.

[Don Dan]

Had a discussion with a fellow Hearts supporter at work this morning and thought I'd see what the assembled masses of Kickback thought.

We started talking about the share issue after he asked if my certificate had arrived, then the subject of the Foundation of Hearts direct debit scheme came up after I'd mentioned that i pledge monthly. He couldn't understand why anyone would do that when "they get nothing in return".

His argument was that if he buys a season ticket the club get his 400 odd quid and he gets in the gate to watch games. My monthly contribution, in his eyes, gets me nothing back despite being a similar sum.

He just wasn't getting that he wouldn't have a match to watch if the Foundation and then Ms Budge hadn't stepped up.

He argued that Ann would've bought the club anyway then sold them once stable and back in the Premier.

I can almost see where he's coming from, as on the face of it a season ticket seems a better option (I don't have one as I can only manage about a quarter of the games due to work), but it still rankles.

His parting shot was that I "don't even even get a T-shirt or **** all".

I don't want a T-shirt by the way.

Thoughts?

 

Just received this a minute ago makes me feel proud our club is being looked after.

 

 

Thank you for pledging to The Foundation of Hearts.

 

YOU WILL OWN THE HISTORY AND YOU ARE SHAPING THE FUTURE.

 

Visit www.foundationofhearts.org for all the latest news.

[Deevers]

Thoughts?  Your work colleague is an arsehole.

Harsh - but true!

[Swarlos]

Luckily there are around 9000 people who do get it.

[Francis Albert]

I do both (to answer the rule-breaking deleted post which suggested I was the work colleague in question!)

 

But maybe people should bear in mind that one third of ST holders and nearly half who attend games are not FoH members. I know children will account for some of that and that some will have to make a financial choice but there is nevertheless a substantial minority who for whatever reason could but do not contribute to FoH. To dismiss them as arseholes doesn't seem

helpful to anyone.

 

And it is true if it wasn't true before that the continued existence of the club probably does not depend on FoH contributions being maintained for another 3 or 4 years. So I'd sugest

FoH needs to keep selling the advantages of their model.

[iwasthere1954]

I have a season ticket and contribute to FoH. I would like to think that once Lady Anne has received her cash that we somehow create a members club for all Hearts fans that we can continue to contribute a monthly amount. Barcelona style?

[Boris]

I do both (to answer the rule-breaking deleted post which suggested I was the work colleague in question!)

 

But maybe people should bear in mind that one third of ST holders and nearly half who attend games are not FoH members. I know children will account for some of that and that some will have to make a financial choice but there is nevertheless a substantial minority who for whatever reason could but do not contribute to FoH. To dismiss them as arseholes doesn't seem

helpful to anyone.

 

And it is true if it wasn't true before that the continued existence of the club probably does not depend on FoH contributions being maintained for another 3 or 4 years. So I'd sugest

FoH needs to keep selling the advantages of their model.

 

FA, those that don't contribute because

 

Ann would've bought the club anyway then sold them once stable and back in the Premier

is an arsehole IMO.

 

It's an excuse not to help out.

 

If people have issues with the FoH model and so don't contribute, then fair enough, that is their individual right and I agree it is up to the FoH to sell the idea.  Buying a Season Ticket helps and in that sense, they are doing their bit.

 

Point remains though that without the FoH vehicle, there was a very high probability that we would have been liquidated.  Would those same people still have stumped up for their ST's in whatever league set up we re-emerged in, assuming we did re-emerge!

[Jamhammer]

If you can get to games and afford both then both. If you can't then FOH IMO. The seat next to me in the Wheatfeld is always free. Obviously someone has a season there cos I can never buy it for me Mrs when she can make a game. It's a noble thing to have an ST when you can't go but, when games are sold out that seat is there for someone.

[The Treasurer]

An ST is something that people will buy if they plan to attend all or at least most of the clubs home games.

If you only attend occasionally then it's not a good or sensible investment.

However contributing to FoH is something that all Hearts fans (finance permitting of course) can and should do.

There's no argument for not contributing, anyone who thinks otherwise either doesn't understand what FoH is about or is not really a fully committed Hearts fan.

[chuck677]

I live in Belfast so can't get to many games but I'm proud to donate to FoH. I was a season ticket holder about 15 years ago and I like to get back to catch the odd game a season when I can. I can't imagine not having a club to support so when the call came I was happy to put the money in.

 

This means that I'm a FoH donater but not a season ticket holder, which probably makes me in the minority. I'd be interested to hear what your mates thoughts are on that point of view.

[Diego10]

If folk hadn't pledged to the FoH he wouldn't have a ST because there wouldn't be a Hearts to watch.

 

I'm no sure why anyone would want other folk not to contribute btw, even if it's not for them

[Paolo]

If folk hadn't pledged to the FoH he wouldn't have a ST because there wouldn't be a Hearts to watch.

 

I'm no sure why anyone would want other folk not to contribute btw, even if it's not for them

I don't know anyone who does not want other folk to contribute, nor have I seen it suggested anywhere. I am not sure, even the OP's colleague is doing that. Not consciously, at least.

[jamtartsandbees]

Over the last couple of years money has been a bit tight. Actually I should qualify that by saying resources have been distributed differently. Last season I renewed my season ticket even though I knew I could not afford it. When the FoH came about I pledged as I knew it was the only way the club would survive. The important thing to me is that it is a pledge that I made and so not something I could back out of with any conscience.

 

Consequently I haven't seen a live game this season. It's a shame but I just see it as doing my part in the best way I can. Hopefully next season will be a bit different and I can get back to seeing games. To me it's not important if people pledge or if they invest in a season ticket which they haven't had for years. Just as long as the end result is the survival of the club.

[Boab]

Thoughts?  Your work colleague is an arsehole.

The thread could have been stopped here.....post 2!

[itsnomarooned]

Thoughts?  Your work colleague is an arsehole.

 

Not sure I'll bother going any further.  This, This and thrice This!

[DETTY29]

If you can only afford a season ticket, then season ticket is the way to go.

[fabienleclerq]

Imo both are equally important to the future of the club. There's a tonnes of reasons folk can only do one or the other, even if they have neither but go to two three games a season they're supporting the club.

 

I do both, I can afford it if I cut down in other things. I'm eternally grateful to Mrs budge but whose to say she would've been the one to put up the cash if the other 8/9000 didn't pledege theres? Short answer is we all contribute and your pals a bit of an arse making it a competition.

[Questy]

I followed Hearts Home and Away religiously for countless years but currently do not go watch them, however I would hate for future generations to miss out on the choice off watching Heart Of Midlothian and thus I chose to support the club I follow by setting up a DD with FOH, I want nothing back in return except the Clubs Existence, that is more than good enough for me.

 

I had a discussion with HOH Rep the other day and I said that Hibs fans opting into buying Shares must do it with the proviso they get nothing financially back, he said Who in their right mind would do this, to which I told him 9000 Hearts fans, myself included must be out of their minds as we all happily put money in with nobody wanting any rewards in return, he quickly removed my posts and went back on his crusade.

 

With regards your " Friend " , I would ask him again if he goes to Tyencastle or Easter Road as his comments smack of a Lochend Lounger

[Paisley Jambo]

I'd keep my FOH DD going as I don't attend every game through my season ticket and would just pay at gate without.

 

My FoH DD funds helped purchase club and provides working capital. That would stay between the two.

[Francis Albert]

FA, those that don't contribute because

 

is an arsehole IMO.

 

It's an excuse not to help out.

 

If people have issues with the FoH model and so don't contribute, then fair enough, that is their individual right and I agree it is up to the FoH to sell the idea.  Buying a Season Ticket helps and in that sense, they are doing their bit.

 

Point remains though that without the FoH vehicle, there was a very high probability that we would have been liquidated.  Would those same people still have stumped up for their ST's in whatever league set up we re-emerged in, assuming we did re-emerge!

I think if FoH had offered the same deal as Ann got to the fan base as a whole then there would have been no danger of liquidation. I'd certainly have been in for an equivalent portion of my wealth as Ann has put in. And so would thousands of others. The bloke referred to in the OP has in fact acted quite rationally and he still has a club to support.

 

Although an FoH funder from the first DD I can understand why others may choose not to be. There is much derision of the Hibs share offer but it is in fact more of a fan ownership

scheme than FoH. You actually get an ownership interest in HSL thus indirectly in the club and you can leave that to your kids. With FoH as things stand you can contribute for years and as soon as you stop your DD you have no membership and nothing you can pass on to your kids. It is a membership scheme not "fan ownership". There is also a big democratic deficit.

Again as currently structured half the FoH Directors will be drawn from candidates selected by the current FoH board. And FoH's first attempt at an open election of an FoH director was a farce. While even at this stage Hibs fans have two elected club board directors.

[buzzbomb1958]

He is a tight fisted ! No pun intended

[Teuchterjambo]

Thoughts?  Your work colleague is an arsehole.

 

 

And not the brightest of arseholes at that !

[iainmac]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing for this guy, but I reckon had FoH NOT had the support it generated then Ann Budge may not have stepped up and bought the club.  No Ann Budge and we would never have achieved the CVA

Correct!

[Victorian]

The vermin in my work were once of the opinion they would get 20k people to sign up to a similar scheme. They don't think that now. One of them thought our FoH payments all went to Ann Budge and that she would still own the club once the process is over. It's got to be some kind of congenital abnormality.

[henry]

 

It will continue to pay into FOH however I think there should be a big push to get more people on board further down the line. There's always continual costs attached to running the club and there's massive challenges ahead but building on what we have at present and going forward into the long term future with some sort of membership would give us an edge over the rest.

[Boab]

It will continue to pay into FOH however I think there should be a big push to get more people on board further down the line. There's always continual costs attached to running the club and there's massive challenges ahead but building on what we have at present and going forward into the long term future with some sort of membership would give us an edge over the rest.

Think they are already trying to get that message out.

11,000 visitors to the site after the reward thingy started.

Am I right in saying we're sitting at 8,500 contributors?

We could easily get that up to 11k with a big push.....an extra 2,500 even at a tenner a month would be 300k a year.....onwards and upwards.

[Nucky Thompson]

I never once think what I'm getting back. It's like being asked to pay a monthly fee for medication that would keep a family member alive. You wouldn't think twice

[Tams bird]

I despair about men sometime. !!

[BelgeJambo]

Whatever your contribution let's be thankful we have a team to support

[Craigieboy]

Not read the whole thread but Id have to say I couldn't hold a conversation with such a complete arsehole.

 

Nothing in return?

 

The ****ing club.

 

 

Crazy.

[Craigieboy]

And by the way, think about just a year ago.

 

I never outed it at the time but I was absolutely shitting it. Every single day. That the worst would happen. The club. Losing Tynecastle. A reformed Hearts.

 

Tell your work colleague to have a good look at himself and show some respect to everyone who helped save the whole thing.

[dode]

When someone asked me why I donate to FoH the answer is simple for over 45 years I have invested emotionally including the stage a lot of young fans go through crying at every defeat and a few quid a week for being able to keep that emotional link going is well worth it.

if people think differently no probs to each his own.

anyway surely this reward scheme addresses his concerns about getting nout in return.