Is there a reason in this day and age that women should get shorter prison terms ?

[CJGJ]

The number of women being sent to prison should be halved, Justice Minister Simon Hughes has said.

Female offenders are a "special case" and should be treated differently to men because many had been victims themselves, he told BBC Radio 5 live Breakfast.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31027549

[Serj Tankian]

Crime against society not treating offenders the same .

[Cigaro]

I reckon it'll be something to do with equality.

[Paolo]

I wonder what the feminists views are on this.

 

I'd imagine they are against the idea, if they are true to their beliefs.

[TheMaganator]

""There are some women who do terrible things and deserve to be locked up for a very long time," he said. "My concern is for those who are not a danger to society, who have become caught by a system which then does not help them out of it.""

 

You should be able to apply this to men too.

[hughesie27]

Yes. Because no young lads turn to anlife of crime after years of having no suportive male role model or indeed a supportive female either.

[Paolo]

""There are some women who do terrible things and deserve to be locked up for a very long time," he said. "My concern is for those who are not a danger to society, who have become caught by a system which then does not help them out of it.""

 

You should be able to apply this to men too.

Like some female criminals, some male criminals, have also been victims in the past.

[Der Kaiser]

Merge with Miss West Lothian thread???

[swavkav]

No, do the crime, Do the Time!!!

[JudyJudyJudy]

the argument is that woman also have children and are mostly the carers for them so when they go to jail the children are left without a  carer. WELL booo hoo. If they do the same crime as a man then they should get the same sentence. Simple as that.  Believe methere are some dangerous woman out there , statistically a  lot less than men but dangerous nevertheless.

[Bert Le Clos]

No.

[doctor jambo]

Children should be no reason to "escape" with a lighter sentence.

Perhaps the "system" should re-consider its access and custody policies that are extremely sexist and discriminatory to allow more women to go to jail while the dads watch the kids

And men have kids too, and don't particularly want separated from them either

And I'm sure children don't want their dads in jail

Equal crime, equal sentence

[Gorgiewave]

Women are special cases, they're more important then men, in fact, women are part of Nature while men are a sinister, artificial addition.

[JudyJudyJudy]

Children should be no reason to "escape" with a lighter sentence.

Perhaps the "system" should re-consider its access and custody policies that are extremely sexist and discriminatory to allow more women to go to jail while the dads watch the kids

And men have kids too, and don't particularly want separated from them either

And I'm sure children don't want their dads in jail

Equal crime, equal sentence

Agreed

[Fitzroy Pointon]

Never seen the stats on re-offending but perhaps females are less likely to re-offend and therefore there is a better chance of rehabilitation than with males? 

 

Question:  Would you rather spend a week in Barlinnie or a week in Cornton Vale?  

[JudyJudyJudy]

Unsure about the stats to be honest but I did read somewhere that woman were more likely to be locked up for more" trivial" stuff like persistent shop lifting and a high percentage were on drugs ( heroin 0r methadone) and were more " vulnerable whilst inside .

[cashgenerator]

I wonder what the feminists views are on this.

 

I'd imagine they are against the idea, if they are true to their beliefs.

Your ignorance of feminism is spectacular but perhaps not surprising given the size of the chip on your shoulder regarding this issue.

[Marvin]

 

The number of women being sent to prison should be halved, Justice Minister Simon Hughes has said.

Female offenders are a "special case" and should be treated differently to men because many had been victims themselves, he told BBC Radio 5 live Breakfast.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-31027549

Try telling that to the random stranger who my ex attacked with a kitchen knife bought earlier that day. She even had the audacity to plead diminished responsibility

[CreativeCat]

Everyone needs to be treated as an individual case.

 

Don't think you can just assume because she's a woman she's less dangerous than a man.

 

That being said I would like to see lighter sentences for the more trivial things.

[BoJack Horseman]

Your ignorance of feminism is spectacular but perhaps not surprising given the size of the chip on your shoulder regarding this issue.

 

What's wrong about what he said? If they're for equality, they won't want women to get special treatment over men when it comes to prison sentences. That, or they'll want the same leniency applied to men when they're not deemed as menaces to society. If they want leniency for women, but not men, then how can they be for equality?

[CreativeCat]

Justice is blind m9 it doesn't matter if you're a man or woman.

[Paolo]

Your ignorance of feminism is spectacular but perhaps not surprising given the size of the chip on your shoulder regarding this issue.

No chip on my shoulder. I support equality, which is why I am against this.

 

I just assumed that feminists supported equality too. If they don't, and in actual fact do think women should be treated differently, then I apologise for misunderstanding their cause.

[Chester™]

Never seen the stats on re-offending but perhaps females are less likely to re-offend and therefore there is a better chance of rehabilitation than with males? 

 

Question:  Would you rather spend a week in Barlinnie or a week in Cornton Vale?  

 

Nearly every study on rehabilitation of offenders is proven to work and cut recidivism rates, male or female. The issue many rehab programmes have, is they are costly at startup, so short termism takes over. As an example, when I was undertaking my Social Work degree, one of our lecturers gave an example of one such programme within Polmont, which had the highest recidivism rates in the UK. Programme was put in and from the group they worked with, rates went down from around 75-80% to single digits. What happened to said programme? Got cut because the startup costs were too high and some justice 'hardliners' got wind of it and campaigned against it. The cost, over the lifespan, would have been less than continually having these young men going in and out of jail and cut the cost to society as a whole.

 

In terms of the OP, unless its changed, women are 'usually' sent to jail for a build up of petty crimes, usually to feed a substance misuse problem or help out with family, eg shoplifting to help feed themselves and their kids. While neither are an 'excuse', it perhaps shows that the focus of locking people up (this applies, IMO, to men as well), is wrong and focus should actually be a public health/wider society issue, some of which is linked to the failed 'War on Drugs'.

[doctor jambo]

Nearly every study on rehabilitation of offenders is proven to work and cut recidivism rates, male or female. The issue many rehab programmes have, is they are costly at startup, so short termism takes over. As an example, when I was undertaking my Social Work degree, one of our lecturers gave an example of one such programme within Polmont, which had the highest recidivism rates in the UK. Programme was put in and from the group they worked with, rates went down from around 75-80% to single digits. What happened to said programme? Got cut because the startup costs were too high and some justice 'hardliners' got wind of it and campaigned against it. The cost, over the lifespan, would have been less than continually having these young men going in and out of jail and cut the cost to society as a whole.

 

In terms of the OP, unless its changed, women are 'usually' sent to jail for a build up of petty crimes, usually to feed a substance misuse problem or help out with family, eg shoplifting to help feed themselves and their kids. While neither are an 'excuse', it perhaps shows that the focus of locking people up (this applies, IMO, to men as well), is wrong and focus should actually be a public health/wider society issue, some of which is linked to the failed 'War on Drugs'.

Two points

1- agree re the rehab and short termism- applies to both genders. There are very few criminals who are not "damaged" in some way.

2- the war on drugs has not failed- drug use is falling

[Chester™]

Two points

1- agree re the rehab and short termism- applies to both genders. There are very few criminals who are not "damaged" in some way.

2- the war on drugs has not failed- drug use is falling

 

We'll agree to disagree on Point 2. Its falling due to better health education, not because of the zero tolerance attitude of the legal systems in place, which is what the War on Drugs is.

[chuck berrys hairline]

Women are a bit like The Rangers when it comes to deciding what punishments they should get!

[grumpyjambo]

Women are a bit like The Rangers when it comes to deciding what punishments they should get!

[djf]

Women are special cases, they're more important then men, in fact, women are part of Nature while men are a sinister, artificial addition.

 

You've got some really unhealthy attitudes towards women and you should probably talk to someone about them. 

[djf]

I dare say most feminists would argue that removing damaging societal stereotypes such as women being expected to be the predominant care givers would help in addressing inequalities like this.

 

The answer to inequality is not to simply say "everyone is exactly the same starting.........now". It's a completely flawed argument.

[Gorgiewave]

You've got some really unhealthy attitudes towards women and you should probably talk to someone about them. 

 

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

 

I only quote. Women should be treated the same as men and get the same sentence for the same crime with the same attending circumstances.

[peter_hmfc]

[djf]

http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm

 

I only quote. Women should be treated the same as men and get the same sentence for the same crime with the same attending circumstances.

Your views have clearly been shaped by searching out extremist material. I assure you feminists and women aren't out to get you.

 

You should perhaps read more things like the following to help understand the movement's motivations

 

 

edit: link didn't work. Just read more about domestic abuse and gender inequality rather than internet tirades.

[Gorgiewave]

Just as a sample:

 

"The male is completely egocentric, trapped inside himself, incapable of empathizing or identifying with others, or love, friendship, affection of tenderness. He is a completely isolated unit, incapable of rapport with anyone. His responses are entirely visceral, not cerebral; his intelligence is a mere tool in the services of his drives and needs; he is incapable of mental passion, mental interaction; he can't relate to anything other than his own physical sensations. He is a half-dead, unresponsive lump, incapable of giving or receiving pleasure or happiness; consequently, he is at best an utter bore, an inoffensive blob, since only those capable of absorption in others can be charming. He is trapped in a twilight zone halfway between humans and apes, and is far worse off than the apes because, unlike the apes, he is capable of a large array of negative feelings -- hate, jealousy, contempt, disgust, guilt, shame, doubt -- and moreover, he is aware of what he is and what he isn't."

[Don Draper]

You've got some really unhealthy attitudes towards women and you should probably talk to someone about them. 

 

 

Finally, someone said it.

[scott_jambo]

That's some insight into GW's mind.

[Gorgiewave]

Finally, someone said it.

 

 

That's some insight into GW's mind.

 

Neither of you has a clue.

[djf]

Just as a sample:

 

"The male is completely egocentric, trapped inside himself, incapable of empathizing or identifying with others, or love, friendship, affection of tenderness. He is a completely isolated unit, incapable of rapport with anyone. His responses are entirely visceral, not cerebral; his intelligence is a mere tool in the services of his drives and needs; he is incapable of mental passion, mental interaction; he can't relate to anything other than his own physical sensations. He is a half-dead, unresponsive lump, incapable of giving or receiving pleasure or happiness; consequently, he is at best an utter bore, an inoffensive blob, since only those capable of absorption in others can be charming. He is trapped in a twilight zone halfway between humans and apes, and is far worse off than the apes because, unlike the apes, he is capable of a large array of negative feelings -- hate, jealousy, contempt, disgust, guilt, shame, doubt -- and moreover, he is aware of what he is and what he isn't."

 

I could probably collect together a handful of JKB posts over the past month aimed at women which would shape up similarly if less eruditely. That's from a mainstream football forum as opposed to some random extremist internet blog. It's just banter when men do it however. Because men are funny. Women aren't. They should go to the kitchen and make a sandwich. LMAO [topical meme].

 

Allowing stuff like the quoted to impact your view on feminism in any way is no better than the losers barging into mosques and scaring kids because of something Amjed Choudhury said once.

 

FWIW the person who wrote that also has unhealthy attitudes towards men and needs to speak to someone about them. For their own tranquility if nothing else.

[2NaFish]

Include me as someone who doesnt have a clue GW, because you come across as someone with a very genuine psychological problem. Now we know you are right wing in your politics because the cool kids laughed at you, so can you remember which woman it was who laughed when you asked them out that turned you in to this bitter parody of a human?

 

And just to show i'm not picking on GW, there are lots of people here who are really putting me off kickback with their shite, GW just happens to be ubiquitous with his shite.

[Gorgiewave]

Include me as someone who doesnt have a clue GW, because you come across as someone with a very genuine psychological problem. Now we know you are right wing in your politics because the cool kids laughed at you, so can you remember which woman it was who laughed when you asked them out that turned you in to this bitter parody of a human?

 

And just to show i'm not picking on GW, there are lots of people here who are really putting me off kickback with their shite, GW just happens to be ubiquitous with his shite.

 

Included!

 

See the "what have you achieved in life so far?" thread. But you won't.

[cashgenerator]

2- the war on drugs has not failed- drug use is falling

Seriously?

 

The 'war on drugs' (which incidentally is a nonsense phrase) has spectacularly failed. Every reasonable commentator would agree. The government's own adviser was of that view (Prof David Nutt) until he got sacked for speaking the inconvenient truth.

 

http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/david-nutt-magic-mushrooms-interview

 

The only places that drug use fell were countries where they abandoned the war on drugs. Eg Portugal.

 

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drug_policy_of_Portugal

[Gigolo-Aunt]

Included!

 

See the "what have you achieved in life

so far?" thread. But you won't.

 

That's quite a statement

[JamboX2]

Nearly every study on rehabilitation of offenders is proven to work and cut recidivism rates, male or female. The issue many rehab programmes have, is they are costly at startup, so short termism takes over. As an example, when I was undertaking my Social Work degree, one of our lecturers gave an example of one such programme within Polmont, which had the highest recidivism rates in the UK. Programme was put in and from the group they worked with, rates went down from around 75-80% to single digits. What happened to said programme? Got cut because the startup costs were too high and some justice 'hardliners' got wind of it and campaigned against it. The cost, over the lifespan, would have been less than continually having these young men going in and out of jail and cut the cost to society as a whole.

 

In terms of the OP, unless its changed, women are 'usually' sent to jail for a build up of petty crimes, usually to feed a substance misuse problem or help out with family, eg shoplifting to help feed themselves and their kids. While neither are an 'excuse', it perhaps shows that the focus of locking people up (this applies, IMO, to men as well), is wrong and focus should actually be a public health/wider society issue, some of which is linked to the failed 'War on Drugs'.

Couldn't agree more Chester. On all points.

 

I was delighted to see the Scottish Justice Secretary last week end the plans for the women's super prison and move to follow the former Lord Advocate, Eilish Angilini, report on this for smaller rehabilitation centres across Scotland.

 

What I would say, is rehabilitation should be equally open to men who'd benefit from it. The issue of prisons aren't are they soft or tough sentences but the fact they are failing to break the circle of crime and reoffending all too prevalent in Scotland.

[Morgaro Gomis]

Women are special cases, they're more important then men, in fact, women are part of Nature while men are a sinister, artificial addition.

 

Why do you hate women, GW?

[Gorgiewave]

I don't hate women but I'm not fond of girning "victims" who are nothing of the sort. Many are, many aren't.

[scott_jambo]

I'm not racist but

[2NaFish]

I don't hate women but I'm not fond of girning "victims" who are nothing of the sort. Many are, many aren't.

snivelling arseholes who aren't worthy of the oxygen they consume. those sorts of people, with their self righteous entitlement and victim mentality, are so blinkered to reality that they don't appreciate what real discrimination is and therefore perceive anything that they want but don't have as a personal slight. they live in a world of their own making and throw a fit when they are challenged.

 

you're right, GW those girning victims, when in reality they are nothing but the entitled, egocentric arseholes, are beneath contempt and I'd tell them they can go **** themselves. Imagine having the unbridled audacity to actually be a member of the ruling caste and then cry about discrimination.

 

you'd have to be a right ***** of a human to do that.

[Deevers]

Prisons should only be used for violent offenders, sex offenders and recidivists no matter what sex they are. Making out that females deserve some sort of special dispensation because of their gender is just downright stupid.