Was the "abandonment" pre planned?

[Piper X]

Probably just over thinking this tbh, but on our way home last night we were discussing the shambles. It occurred to me that perhaps the Police and officials were basically caught out with the ferocity of the planned demonstration before the game. On the back of this, there were rumours of a planned pitch invasion at the 54th minute. Given the ferocity of the demonstration, the previously shrugged off rumours were perhaps taken a bit more seriously? The ground staff were then ordered NOT to clear the pitch, and despite the pockets of trouble, the police were mostly formed up at the main entrance pretty much ignoring the bedlam around them. It was almost as though they were just not ready and rather than risk a situation they couldn't control, they decide to cut it short before it could start.

Thoughts?

[kingantti1874]

Just watching new Douglas being cleared for the celtic game, it's hugely suspicious. They either wanted it abandoned or they thought the pitch would enhance their prospects... Either way - that pitch wasn't cleared on purpose

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

Yup.

Agree with all that and you can't really blame them.

 

Saved themselves being punished for the planned pitch invasion.

[Jamboelite]

Eh come on.

 

Unless they have a James Bond weather machine I think its far more likely to be incompetence rather than anything else. 

 

The pitch itself at inspection by all accounts was fine, whether the ground staff were then told to do minimal work so the pitch was a leveller then maybe but I dont believe for a second they were told to leave it so the weather could then get the game abandoned.

 

For 1 they will have to pay the costs for policing and stewards again while getting no more revenue due to the ticket being reimbursed and that is the last thing they need.

[Kramer]

Has anyone got a link to the story that says the ground staff were ordered not to clear the pitch?

[DETTY29]

Not sure how different the conditions are today but Tannadice with what I'd imagine a fully operating USL system facing second pitch inspection at 11.30.

 

That said, I'm sure a few bodies and shovels could have had the pitch cleared and fully ready no later than 8 last night.

[macg63]

think the game was on so that the demonstration would go into stadium , give the police time to regain control, sadly went tits up---rangers scum

[JamboX2]

Snow had been forecast all day. Where were the sheets to cover the pitch? Why was under soil heating on so late? And why were they not out earlier trying to clear the snow from the whole pitch rather than the goal mouths?

 

It's no conspiracy, it's incompetence on the part of the SFA and Rangers. Heard on the radio on my way back they'd brought heat lamps out after the game to help. After the game. Not before. After.

 

Even an extra 15 minutes through a delayed kick off to try clear the pitch and check it then would've been better. The SFA need to investigate why this was allowed to happen. Had the radio on in the car on my way through, 7pm, games a goer. Arrive late. Called off 20 minutes in. It's absolutely infuriating. A wasted night for all concerned, but travelling fans deserve to be considered in all of this. Be it an extra 15 minutes to get through in dreadful conditions which held many up or a proper call off decision sooner than during the game.

[William H. Bonney]

No, don't be ridiculous.

[Dutchmul]

My thinking is that they decided not to clear the pitch as it would inhibit hearts play as we would find it difficult to run with the ball and pass it and it would bring us down to their level. You can see that the 6 yard boxes were fully cleared so they could easily have cleared the pitch to make it playable, this was deliberate to gain an advantage and it's backfired.

 

An abandonment after kick off or cancellation before kick off costs sevco a lot of money that they do not have so I don't think they wanted the game off.

 

I do think they underestimated the strength of the demos before and after the game and also that the atmosphere amongst the orcs would result in lots of attacks on jambos at the game. Clearly strathclydes finest had decided not to bother trying to keep the fans apart after the game ended and that was a disgrace, too busy protecting property and the suits in the main stand and leaving hearts fans to be attacked by the knuckle draggers.

[FWJ]

Yup, I think it was just a good old fashioned snafu.

[Feeno]

I certainly think that the police where focusing on the safety of the rangers officials and keeping the mob out the front door.

 

If a hun dick got caught up savaging women and children it would be one less knuckledragger to worry about at the gates.

[Kramer]

I think the referee made a bad call starting the game. I assume he thought the snow would clear a bit with players running on it. Incompetence and bad weather.

[cal_rae]

Don't really see how the police (or anyone else besides the benches) could influence the game once it started. Not sure if there's much truth to the ideas that either a) they wanted it abandoned to avoid a riot following the inevitable Hearts win, or b ) they saw the snow as a leveller and fancied their chances. Catalogue of characteristic errors most likely the cause.

[Mikey1874]

what seems to be clear is it was possible to play the game if the pitch had been cleared

 

so questions are reasonable

[Maroon Sailor]

I think the referee made a bad call starting the game. I assume he thought the snow would clear a bit with players running on it. Incompetence and bad weather.

The snow would've cleared if the ground staff got their shovels out !

 

Put the kick off back to 20 minutes or so and I'm sure the match would've been played. Pitch was perfect underneath the White stuff

[Kramer]

The snow would've cleared if the ground staff got their shovels out !

 

Put the kick off back to 20 minutes or so and I'm sure the match would've been played. Pitch was perfect underneath the White stuff

Yes it would have. That's why I said it was incompetence by the referee to start the match.

[davieholt]

When a game is in doubt, it is normal to keep the gates closed until after the pitch inspection. Rangers opened the gates and allowed the (small) crowd in thus putting enormous pressure on the ref to get the game started. I reckon it was more to do with trying to disperse the angry hoards at the main gate than a serious attempt to have the game played. 

[Maroon Sailor]

When a game is in doubt, it is normal to keep the gates closed until after the pitch inspection. Rangers opened the gates and allowed the (small) crowd in thus putting enormous pressure on the ref to get the game started. I reckon it was more to do with trying to disperse the angry hoards at the main gate than a serious attempt to have the game played.

 

I think you're right

 

Believe Madden said as much with regards to people being in the Stadium

[davieholt]

There must have been collusion with the Police - who didn't give a toss about the fans and were only concerned to protect the suits.

[Marvin]

Just watching new Douglas being cleared for the celtic game, it's hugely suspicious. They either wanted it abandoned or they thought the pitch would enhance their prospects... Either way - that pitch wasn't cleared on purpose

 

Completely agree, last night was a total farce.

[JohnB]

Knowing that the decision on whether the game would be played or not was out of their hands and lay with the referee, they only cleared what they had to i.e. the lines and goal areas. They knew damn fine that was going to give them their best chance of beating us. That combined with turning the under-soil heating on too late (or not at all) was the best they could manage to in the circumstances.

[Paolo]

Perhaps they made little effort, as a postponement, rather than abandonment, would prevent the threatened pitch invasions etc.

[Jambof3tornado]

Perhaps they made little effort, as a postponement, rather than abandonment, would prevent the threatened pitch invasions etc.

I think they took advantage of the conditions to end the match without a result to dampen the protests. The atmosphere was nasty from the start.

The ref delayed stopping the game to supposedly allow the stewards and police time to make ready for the fans exiting the ground(worked well eh?)

[Maroon Sailor]

The only blessing was it was called off with the score still 0-0

[Bridge of Djoum]

I wonder if football clubs have insurance against games being called off/abandoned, to pay for policing and stewarding etc. It'd make sense to , I think. 

 

Also, (and I'm not a conspiracy theorist), the longer the game goes on, the longer punters have to buy food, club merchandise and the like. Might that be a factor? 

 

Just want to point out, I do not subscribe to these views, I just wonder if they have any merit.

 

As I wait for the 1st joker to type just, 'no'.

[Jambof3tornado]

I wonder if football clubs have insurance against games being called off/abandoned, to pay for policing and stewarding etc. It'd make sense to , I think.

 

Also, (and I'm not a conspiracy theorist), the longer the game goes on, the longer punters have to buy food, club merchandise and the like. Might that be a factor?

 

Just want to point out, I do not subscribe to these views, I just wonder if they have any merit.

 

As I wait for the 1st joker to type just, 'no'.

The costs of such insurances would be prohibitive you'd think.

[vegas-voss]

Absolutely everything at Rangers seems lackadaisical from board to players so why wouldn't it filter it's way down to groundstaff as well.The whole club is just stumbling along so on purpose maybe not but half arsed effort most definitely.

[Bridge of Djoum]

The costs of such insurances would be prohibitive you'd think.

Aye, good point. 

 

Another question, would this still be classed a ''category A'' game, despite it being a division lower?

[Kramer]

I think they took advantage of the conditions to end the match without a result to dampen the protests. The atmosphere was nasty from the start.

The ref delayed stopping the game to supposedly allow the stewards and police time to make ready for the fans exiting the ground(worked well eh?)

So Madden decided to stop the game because it would dampen the protests? According to Robbie Neilson, the referee asked the managers their thoughts and it was agreed that it was getting dangerous and the match should be stopped. Robbie Neilson also agreed that the referee was correct to start the game.

 

Could it simply be that the referee and managers thought that the snow would clear during the game and this didn't happen?

[Bridge of Djoum]

What was the attendance last night? I mean roughly as I'm sure it'll be difficult to get the official figure. Did it look north of 30,000. or lower?

[Jambof3tornado]

So Madden decided to stop the game because it would dampen the protests? According to Robbie Neilson, the referee asked the managers their thoughts and it was agreed that it was getting dangerous and the match should be stopped. Robbie Neilson also agreed that the referee was correct to start the game.

 

Could it simply be that the referee and managers thought that the snow would clear during the game and this didn't happen?

Madden did nothing to get the pitch playable to start with. He could have insisted the whole pitch be swept as the lines and 6 yard boxes were. I think Rangers as a club took advantage of the poor conditions. Imagine the game played on for 90 minutes with Hearts cruising at 3 nil. What we saw after the early abandonment would be like a kindergarten play party compared to what would have happened.

[Bindy Badgy]

Never blame something on maliciousness when you can blame it on incompetence.

[henry]

 

Don't think there's any conspiracy, more bad management and planning

[Kramer]

Madden did nothing to get the pitch playable to start with. He could have insisted the whole pitch be swept as the lines and 6 yard boxes were. I think Rangers as a club took advantage of the poor conditions. Imagine the game played on for 90 minutes with Hearts cruising at 3 nil. What we saw after the early abandonment would be like a kindergarten play party compared to what would have happened.

 

Yes, Madden should have requested for the pitch to be cleared and made a poor judgement call in thinking the snow would clear during the game. I assume that both managers also had to agree that the game should start.

 

It was clear after 20 mins of the game that the pitch was not improving and the referee, along with both managers, agreed that is was too dangerous and the game was stopped. There's nothing to suggest that Madden stopped it to dampen protests.

 

It was just a bad decision to start the game.

[portobellojambo1]

Don't think there's any conspiracy, more bad management and planning

 

 

I tend to agree with this. The steady fall of snow must have started around 17:00 at a guess, because when we arrived in the outskirts of Glasgow around 1 hour later the roads were already chaotic and it was coming down in bucket loads (so reports saying the snow only started in the Glasgow area around 1.5 hours pre KO, i.e. 18:15, catching them by surprise, are complete bollocks). At work, mid afternoon, yesterday I overheard a couple who live out West saying that snow was already falling on and off as they had been contacted about getting home. The councils all monitor weather reports and Glasgow council had time to make sure the roads were gritted, before the rush hour traffic started, Rangers had the opportunity to get their ground staff prepared to deal with the surface. If the whole pitch had been cleared, and the heating put on, then no ice would have formed on the surface, if indeed it did. I am nowhere near convinced the surface was unplayable when the game was abandoned. During the short part of it I managed to see I witnessed nothing which suggested it was dangerous. I do thin there is an element of police involvement, in that they probably wanted everyone away from the Ibrox area as quickly, given the off field non game related incidents taking place, but again that is down to bad planning, somewhere. The first people to know a game is going to be abandoned are the police and the stewards, as they need advance warning. And 5 minutes before the game was eventually abandoned the stewards were aware this was happening. I think there were possibly a mixture of reasons why it was abandoned, but I think the council, Police Scotland and the Rangers all had the opportunity to make sure they were prepared for both events on and off the field last night and could have made sure fans got there safely and in a reasonable time frame and the game was able to reach its natural conclusion.

 

On a bright note we are still 13 points ahead, and by the time this is replayed the fixture could be totally irrelevant, either because the league is already over or they no longer exist.

[number-16]

In fairness to Madden, he took advice from the professional groundsmen at the ground who should have a far better knowledge of the pitch and capabilities of the undersoil heating than him.

 

I'd leave any blame with the ground staff that advised him.

[The White Cockade]

to be fair it was RN who looked the most passionate about getting the game called off

at one point going by the tv pictures he said "it's your fault if anybody gets injured no mine" to the ref

if my lip reading is accurate

[Kramer]

to be fair it was RN who looked the most passionate about getting the game called off

at one point going by the tv pictures he said "it's your fault if anybody gets injured no mine" to the ref

if my lip reading is accurate

Yes, you could see he was trying to get the game stopped when talking to the ref. He must have been in on the pre planned abandoning of the game.

[Dave McCreery's knee]

Everything last night smacked of lack of resources and a club that couldn't run a bath. From lack of groundsmen, to strewarding/policing and not putting under soil heating on at the start of the day as a precaution. Whether deliberate or out of necessity, whow knows.

Some sympathy for ref as ball was moving ok at pitch inspections although more snow on pitch then. As it thawed, it became heavy and ball moved worse, although coversely pitch looked "better". How Michael Stewart didnt grasp that, I dont know.

Regardless, ref should have insisted on pitch being cleared by groundstaff and Rangers should have had the resources for that in place.

The rest of the stuff outside etc just shows what a significant sinister element they have in their support.

[Bazzas right boot]

Yip, it was, I seen the snow machines

[Bazzas right boot]

Everything last night smacked of lack of resources and a club that couldn't run a bath. From lack of groundsmen, to strewarding/policing and not putting under soil heating on at the start of the day as a precaution. Whether deliberate or out of necessity, whow knows.

Some sympathy for ref as ball was moving ok at pitch inspections although more snow on pitch then. As it thawed, it became heavy and ball moved worse, although coversely pitch looked "better". How Michael Stewart didnt grasp that, I dont know.

Regardless, ref should have insisted on pitch being cleared by groundstaff and Rangers should have had the resources for that in place.

The rest of the stuff outside etc just shows what a significant sinister element they have in their support.

 

That's the one- nail on head.

PS-Stewart, who I do have time for, did make himself out to be a bit stupid last night.

[Stuart G]

The police and stewards were aware of the abandonment, my sons arrived 5 minutes before game was stopped, they were told that they were not getting in as game was getting stopped, one of them phoned me and I spoke to a police officer who told me it was pointless letting anyone in and that the game would be over in 2 minutes, he said that they had been told to prepare, presume ref has passed the word to someone at edge of pitch to pass to police.

[DETTY29]

The police and stewards were aware of the abandonment, my sons arrived 5 minutes before game was stopped, they were told that they were not getting in as game was getting stopped, one of them phoned me and I spoke to a police officer who told me it was pointless letting anyone in and that the game would be over in 2 minutes, he said that they had been told to prepare, presume ref has passed the word to someone at edge of pitch to pass to police.

Bobby Madden confirmed as much in his post natch interview

[Maroon Sailor]

I tend to agree with this. The steady fall of snow must have started around 17:00 at a guess, because when we arrived in the outskirts of Glasgow around 1 hour later the roads were already chaotic and it was coming down in bucket loads (so reports saying the snow only started in the Glasgow area around 1.5 hours pre KO, i.e. 18:15, catching them by surprise, are complete bollocks). At work, mid afternoon, yesterday I overheard a couple who live out West saying that snow was already falling on and off as they had been contacted about getting home. The councils all monitor weather reports and Glasgow council had time to make sure the roads were gritted, before the rush hour traffic started, Rangers had the opportunity to get their ground staff prepared to deal with the surface. If the whole pitch had been cleared, and the heating put on, then no ice would have formed on the surface, if indeed it did. I am nowhere near convinced the surface was unplayable when the game was abandoned. During the short part of it I managed to see I witnessed nothing which suggested it was dangerous. I do thin there is an element of police involvement, in that they probably wanted everyone away from the Ibrox area as quickly, given the off field non game related incidents taking place, but again that is down to bad planning, somewhere. The first people to know a game is going to be abandoned are the police and the stewards, as they need advance warning. And 5 minutes before the game was eventually abandoned the stewards were aware this was happening. I think there were possibly a mixture of reasons why it was abandoned, but I think the council, Police Scotland and the Rangers all had the opportunity to make sure they were prepared for both events on and off the field last night and could have made sure fans got there safely and in a reasonable time frame and the game was able to reach its natural conclusion.

 

On a bright note we are still 13 points ahead, and by the time this is replayed the fixture could be totally irrelevant, either because the league is already over or they no longer exist.

I got through there very early yesterday and It snowed mid afternoon giving a fairly decent covering. Unfortunately at about 1800 when it came back on again it was much heavier and that lasted a good 40 minutes.

 

Got to the stadium at 1910 and the roads and pavements were treacherous - thought that in itself would have got the game called off as that has been a reason in the past at other venues.

[Hagar the Horrible]

After realising that McCoist was at our game at Dumbarton, obviously sussing us out, the tactical genius that he is was that to beat us was to have the pitch as it was last night or get the game called off?

[Sharpie]

On reading JKB prior to the game I was sure it would be cancelled. With regard to the police costs, who will be responsible for the payment of costs for the police during all the nonsense after the game was cancelled.  I understand the home team pay for policing costs for attendance at the game,  would last nights continuance and the possibilitry that extra police had to be called all go to the home team costs, not the best plan to save money.  sounds more like the old and trusted snafu.

[maroonlegions]

Pulling out all the stops judging by this photo. Look how much snow is on his shovel FFS..  

 

 

 

 

[Maroon Sailor]

Pulling out all the stops judging by this photo. Look how much snow is on his shovel FFS..  

 

 

 

 

More snow on his hair

[maroonlegions]