jack D and coke Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Not wanting to derail things but we are and remain a nation - we just aren't a state. So Flower of Scotland can still be sung. Doesn't change the fact it's a pile of shite though. Yes but the words are absolutely ridiculous now. It was fine when we had this identity of the plucky underdog, the parcel of rogues chat etc..... What is our identity now? We'd be as well with GSTQ imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuck berrys hairline Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I can't see how no voters or unionists can sing it (FoS) hypocrites the lot of them. Tbh there should be a modern anthem written and conducted from scratch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Not having a go at you mate but it's not, it's ******* dreadful. Made even worse by the No vote which now means the words are frankly ludicrous, I don't think I could sing it again tbh. Scotland the Brave is another that is now unusable imo. My passion for all things scottish has been dampened by the No vote I must say. It all just seems a bit silly to me now. We want to pretend we're a proud and even a different nation but hide under England's skirt at the same time singing about being a nation again? Na, no for me it must be replaced. There was never anything proud in Flower of Scotland. It's a dirge. Uninspiring and poor. However, we are a nation and a people in our own right. With our own traditions and culture. We have a lot in common with the UK. It's a misunderstanding of the UK as a nation of 4 nations to think a No vote was to hide and as you suggest by the tone, become English. Arguably many of Scotland's best writers, poets, engineers, doctors, explorers, politicians and even soldiers were great as part of Britain. Their Scottishness and how they shaped our idea of Scotland was not hampered by being part of Britain. An anthem should reflect Scotland and what it means to be a Scot. We've a lot to be proud of and hold up high. Sadly we have an anthem which reflects none of that and arguably plays up a chipped shoulder nationalist mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 There was never anything proud in Flower of Scotland. It's a dirge. Uninspiring and poor. However, we are a nation and a people in our own right. With our own traditions and culture. We have a lot in common with the UK. It's a misunderstanding of the UK as a nation of 4 nations to think a No vote was to hide and as you suggest by the tone, become English. Arguably many of Scotland's best writers, poets, engineers, doctors, explorers, politicians and even soldiers were great as part of Britain. Their Scottishness and how they shaped our idea of Scotland was not hampered by being part of Britain. An anthem should reflect Scotland and what it means to be a Scot. We've a lot to be proud of and hold up high. Sadly we have an anthem which reflects none of that and arguably plays up a chipped shoulder nationalist mentality. I'm not disagreeing with any of that in the slightest but what song reflects scotland now? All my life Scotland has played up to this parcel of rogues patter, the songs at least had some meaning if nothing else. When we got the chance to see if we meant a single word of it we showed it all to be a lie and bravado, we were all fur coat and no knickers. Only an excuse had a good sketch on Hogmanay with the big braveheart going into the booth then putting a cross in the no box. I bet it was true in so may cases[emoji1] What song would reflect that? It's GSTQ imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 I'm not disagreeing with any of that in the slightest but what song reflects scotland now? All my life Scotland has played up to this parcel of rogues patter, the songs at least had some meaning if nothing else. When we got the chance to see if we meant a single word of it we showed it all to be a lie and bravado, we were all fur coat and no knickers. Only an excuse had a good sketch on Hogmanay with the big braveheart going into the booth then putting a cross in the no box. I bet it was true in so may cases[emoji1] What song would reflect that? It's GSTQ imo. Haha, sent up the other side with the boys wife telling him the Yes Posters had to come down for Christmas too mind. I think that parcel of rogues thing was a nonsense to peddle in the modern age anyway. If that was what made Scotland then it wasn't the best foundation. Then again Flower of Scotland would be good on that. There's more to Scotland than all that. An anthem to reflect that is needed. Imo, Scotland the Brave or A Mans A Man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Haha, sent up the other side with the boys wife telling him the Yes Posters had to come down for Christmas too mind. I think that parcel of rogues thing was a nonsense to peddle in the modern age anyway. If that was what made Scotland then it wasn't the best foundation. Then again Flower of Scotland would be good on that. There's more to Scotland than all that. An anthem to reflect that is needed. Imo, Scotland the Brave or A Mans A Man. Parcel of rogues was used to describe the unionists of the time when the Act of Union was sold - I think. 'Bought and sold for English gold, what a parcel of rogues in a nation' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 Haha, sent up the other side with the boys wife telling him the Yes Posters had to come down for Christmas too mind. I think that parcel of rogues thing was a nonsense to peddle in the modern age anyway. If that was what made Scotland then it wasn't the best foundation. Then again Flower of Scotland would be good on that. There's more to Scotland than all that. An anthem to reflect that is needed. Imo, Scotland the Brave or A Mans A Man. In what way is Scotland brave? That's a no go surely too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted January 14, 2015 Share Posted January 14, 2015 In what way is Scotland brave? That's a no go surely too? Small nation, punches above its weight in its international influence, good tune. You do realise the French aren't still going around chopping off the heads of the rich and corrupt nor America still fighting it's revolutionary war or that everyone in Denmark loves Denmark... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Small nation, punches above its weight in its international influence, good tune. You do realise the French aren't still going around chopping off the heads of the rich and corrupt nor America still fighting it's revolutionary war or that everyone in Denmark loves Denmark...I don't believe everybody in England wants to save the queen either but I'm not talking about these countries. You said it should be modern and reflect scotland, how does Scotland the brave do that? Punching above our weight? What does that mean? In what way? As part of the UK you mean? And brave how? I think scotland has shown that its not brave at all tbh, we regularly shite it when the chips are down. It's a cowardly little nation with a big mouth imo. We really can't be singing about being brave or rising again. When we played England in November they must've been pissing themselves listening to us singing FOS. I found it a bit embarrassing. I say GSTQ and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I don't believe everybody in England wants to save the queen either but I'm not talking about these countries. You said it should be modern and reflect scotland, how does Scotland the brave do that? Punching above our weight? What does that mean? In what way? As part of the UK you mean? And brave how? I think scotland has shown that its not brave at all tbh, we regularly shite it when the chips are down. It's a cowardly little nation with a big mouth imo. We really can't be singing about being brave or rising again. When we played England in November they must've been pissing themselves listening to us singing FOS. I found it a bit embarrassing. I say GSTQ and be done with it. We punch above our weight in that Scots have given far more to the world through invention and industry than other nations our size. Voting No was not cowardly. It was calculated and sensible (and vindicated with the oil price, if nothing else) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 We punch above our weight in that Scots have given far more to the world through invention and industry than other nations our size. Voting No was not cowardly. It was calculated and sensible (and vindicated with the oil price, if nothing else) See this is where I find it even more silly. Scots like to say things like The Beatles were a British band or wimbledon and the grand national is British etc but ask anybody who invented the telephone or the tv and they say a scotsman. Surely all these inventions were British inventions? What has scotland achieved on its own? Nothing. We like to claim all the great english things as ours but anything anybody came up with that has a granny born over this side of the border and we're like "Look we punch above our weight" it's laughable. The oil price mag? Cmon we're still two years away from indy if there had been a yes. Let's talk about it then and it might carry some weight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 See this is where I find it even more silly. Scots like to say things like The Beatles were a British band or wimbledon and the grand national is British etc Aye, but they don't. It'd be a great point if it was remotely true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ray Gin Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 God The Queen God Save the Queen = cornette squared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Aye, but they don't. It'd be a great point if it was remotely true. Ok it's not then ive never heard anybody scottish say these things are British right enough. British when it suits us and scottish when it suits us. :wiggo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ok it's not then ive never heard anybody scottish say these things are British right enough. British when it suits us and scottish when it suits us. :wiggo: I'm happy being Scottish when it suits me or British when it suits me. Also happy being an Edinburgher when it suits me. You can be proud of everything without lessening any of the individual components. Tbh this was a line we heard a lot during the referendum - you can't be a proud Scot and proud Briton. It's nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2NaFish Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Ok it's not then ive never heard anybody scottish say these things are British right enough. Not actually my argument, but you crack on being wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Not actually my argument, but you crack on being wrong.Well what was your argument then[emoji1]Am I supposed to guess? My last point on what was supposed to be about the anthem is im not really for singing about being brave or rising to be a nation again it's just silly now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 I'm happy being Scottish when it suits me or British when it suits me. Also happy being an Edinburgher when it suits me. You can be proud of everything without lessening any of the individual components. Tbh this was a line we heard a lot during the referendum - you can't be a proud Scot and proud Briton. It's nonsense. That's not really what I was getting at. Anyway this is getting off topic. The indy chat bores the life out of me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 http://youtu.be/CGcsuT3MRAg or maybe not!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 http://youtu.be/CGcsuT3MRAg or maybe not!! Could be a late contender. Sounds like pinky and perky but at least she is Scottish ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rand Paul's Ray Bans Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 The crux of it is that anyone can define themselves however they like. It's none of my business how and why they define themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Australis Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Flower of Scotland is like something that would be played at a funeral. It is horrendous. A new anthem needs written, what are all the Scottish song writers doing. #nowt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgiewave Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Not having a go at you mate but it's not, it's ******* dreadful. Made even worse by the No vote which now means the words are frankly ludicrous, I don't think I could sing it again tbh. Scotland the Brave is another that is now unusable imo. My passion for all things scottish has been dampened by the No vote I must say. It all just seems a bit silly to me now. We want to pretend we're a proud and even a different nation but hide under England's skirt at the same time singing about being a nation again? Na, no for me it must be replaced. Wanting to be part of something bigger than oneself can indicate strength. A No vote is not a synonym of cowardice. Getting and staying married (or being in a serious relationship) with the concessions that go with that does not mean you're weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jack D and coke Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Wanting to be part of something bigger than oneself can indicate strength. A No vote is not a synonym of cowardice. Getting and staying married (or being in a serious relationship) with the concessions that go with that does not mean you're weak. Yeah ok I agree with that. The song (FOS) sounds absolutely ridiculous now though surely? That is my point here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maroon Sailor Posted January 15, 2015 Author Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yeah ok I agree with that. The song (FOS) sounds absolutely ridiculous now though surely? That is my point here.... Crap lyrics anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted January 15, 2015 Share Posted January 15, 2015 Yeah ok I agree with that. The song (FOS) sounds absolutely ridiculous now though surely? That is my point here.... What was the song about? A battle in 1314. That's all. A battle and the intent of it to beat the English and allow the Bruce family to go from warlords to Kings. That's what it's about to me. It was nonsense to begin with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HaymarketJambo Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 I would stick with Flower of Scotland or if Scotland is looking for a new national anthem then Highland Cathedral? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The White Cockade Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 What was the song about? A battle in 1314. That's all. A battle and the intent of it to beat the English and allow the Bruce family to go from warlords to Kings. That's what it's about to me. It was nonsense to begin with. The Flower in Flower of Scotland refers to the people of Scotland it's not anti English as such it's about defending your own country and identity with your life having said that it's too slow and everybody gets out of time speeding it up so even though i like it would be happy to see it replaced with something a bit more stirring if there is anything else out there Scotland the Brave is the opposite - it has the good quick tune but not really the lyrics for an anthem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cade Posted January 16, 2015 Share Posted January 16, 2015 Keep FoS but change a few lyrics:"But we can still rise now. And be a nation again. We just chose not to at this particular point in time" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deesidejambo Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 FoS is a whiney dirge. Its about as whiney as Imagine. Or Chasing Cars. I hate whiney, greeting-faced "we are victims" songs. FoS gtf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Darius - Colourblind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Caledonia Is that that Tennents Lager advert tune? If so, decent shout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamboX2 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 The Flower in Flower of Scotland refers to the people of Scotland it's not anti English as such it's about defending your own country and identity with your life having said that it's too slow and everybody gets out of time speeding it up so even though i like it would be happy to see it replaced with something a bit more stirring if there is anything else out there Scotland the Brave is the opposite - it has the good quick tune but not really the lyrics for an anthem Never said it was anti-English. But the point remains, it's about the Battle of Bannockburn. It's a dirge and it's god awful to listen to on any instrument. If we were independent imagine our PM stepping off a plane at a state visit in any foreign capital the band strikes up that! As bad as god save the queen. Scotland the Brave is an excellent tune. Just write new words for it. Sadly the Flower of Scotland is now ingrained in the Scottish mind. Such a dirge and dreadful song. But would be hard to get rid of. Even just an instrumental song. Why words? Spain do well without them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bert Le Clos Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Not a fan of Flower of Scotland. I'd happily have it binned. I would get shot of this welt too I love the Welsh anthem sung at their rugby matches. I'd take Highland Cathedral as he anthem any day. Couldn't care less if the words were written by a German. I'm not ashamed to say when it's played at rugby matches, the point where the pipeband and drummers start playing the second verse after a solo piper has played the first brings a tear to my eye. I think that would sound magic with a stadium full of people singing along. Never been a fan of Scotland the Brave. Maybe it's my age but I'll always associate it with kids singer "Here comes the highland granny......" and so on. For me it's always sounded like a bit of a joke song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'd rather not have an anthem that harked on about nationalism, the beauty of our glens and lochs, or referred to battles waged long ago. It would be nice to have an anthem that talked about the ideals we would like to eschew as a nation, ? la Internationale, such as equality, compassion, respect, freedom, rights, brotherhood. I'll write one called "Jock Tamson's bairns" and get back to you... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redjambo Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'd rather not have an anthem that harked on about nationalism, the beauty of our glens and lochs, or referred to battles waged long ago. It would be nice to have an anthem that talked about the ideals we would like to eschew as a nation, ? la Internationale, such as equality, compassion, respect, freedom, rights, brotherhood. I'll write one called "Jock Tamson's bairns" and get back to you... Ha ha. Oops. "eschew" should read "support", "embrace" or similar. Serves me right for trying to use fancy words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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