The 2015 General Election Megathread

[niblick1874]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcEsLWMda-s

 

Austerity and welfare cuts, you gotta laugh.

I've been Keeping an on this thread and I have noticed that every now and then a post comes up like this from random posters that are completely ignored. Why. Could it be that everyone is so taken with infighting and personal vendettas that no one can see the wood for the trees? Help me out here.

[JamboX2]

I've been Keeping an on this thread and I have noticed that every now and then a post comes up like this from random posters that are completely ignored. Why. Could it be that everyone is so taken with infighting and personal vendettas that no one can see the wood for the trees? Help me out here.

QE is a scandal which will be subject to a panorama special is 5 years time when some civil servant leaks to the press. If the government wanted to it would place specific restrictions and conditions on where and how that money is spent. They'd do likewise with the banks they've nationalised. They should also break up the banking sector and force a glass wall between investment and high street banking. Would be a good first step.

 

 

On a side note. Saw Jeremy Corben interviewed on Newsnight. Very impressive, honest and open about himself, his history and his vision for Labour. Makes Burnham, Kendall, Creagh and Cooper look positively wooden. He's already won my vote on that showing.

Edited June 8, 2015 by JamboX2

[JamboX2]

Not interested.

Voted for indy, not pishy third rate powers, if you can call it that, a ruse plain and simple.

Aussie, they're the powers of independence within the union. It's powers to better folks lives. Not a ruse. This is like the pre-devolution SNP position of ignore and deflect change because it isn't wholly your type of change. It's frankly ridiculous.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Not interested.

Voted for indy, not pishy third rate powers, if you can call it that, a ruse plain and simple.

Scottish Parliament should be abolished by this logic.

[niblick1874]

QE is a scandal which will be subject to a panorama special is 5 years time when some civil servant leaks to the press. If the government wanted to it would place specific restrictions and conditions on where and how that money is spent. They'd do likewise with the banks they've nationalised. They should also break up the banking sector and force a glass wall between investment and high street banking. Would be a good first step.

 

 

On a side note. Saw Jeremy Corben interviewed on Newsnight. Very impressive, honest and open about himself, his history and his vision for Labour. Makes Burnham, Kendall, Creagh and Cooper look positively wooden. He's already won my vote on that showing.

Thanks. I just found the hole thing very specific in its purpose and I find it very telling that it was aloud to go ahead by those that could have done something about it, indeed I have my doubts that they could have if they wanted to. Just my take on it. 

[aussieh]

Scottish Parliament should be abolished by this logic.

Yes, its pointless until Indy.

They voted to be ruled by WM.

[Arnold Rothstein]

Yes, its pointless until Indy.

They voted to be ruled by WM.

Surely the best way to work towards independence is by showing the Scottish people how effectively you're using current powers and that you need more? Or am I simplifying it?

[aussieh]

Surely the best way to work towards independence is by showing the Scottish people how effectively you're using current powers and that you need more? Or am I simplifying it?

I'd love it, if the SNP, withdrew from 2016 Holyrood elections, and left Slab first dibs on these mighty powers.

[jack D and coke]

I haven't really looked at what the Smith commission has offered but I was interested to hear Jack McConnell say a little while ago they made him feel like banging his head off a wall or words to that effect.

Labour won't need to worry about using them anytime soon though other than weaponising them as a stick to beat the SNP with for the next ten years.

[aussieh]

I haven't really looked at what the Smith commission has offered but I was interested to hear Jack McConnell say a little while ago they made him feel like banging his head off a wall or words to that effect.

Labour won't need to worry about using them anytime soon though other than weaponising them as a stick to beat the SNP with for the next ten years.

Spot on.

That's all these things are, a Wm obstacle course. Designed to stop the SNP.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Yes, its pointless until Indy.

They voted to be ruled by WM.

Well, at least that's consistent.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Douglas Flint writing in a personal capacity in August 2014 " a yes vote next month would mean a giant step into economic uncertainty , with doubts over currency arrangements potentially triggering a capital flight over currency .

 

The company in which he is chairman of today is to slash up to 25000 and is considering moving its HQ out of the UK .

 

http://www.aol.co.uk/2015/06/09/hsbc-set-to-axe-up-to-25-000-jobs/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D357042&ncid=aolshare_facebook

[jack D and coke]

Interesting reading the Yes and No arguments from 1975. Which one rings true for you now....

Yes.... http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumYES.pdf

No.... http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

Edited June 9, 2015 by jack D and coke

[Thunderstruck]

Douglas Flint writing in a personal capacity in August 2014 " a yes vote next month would mean a giant step into economic uncertainty , with doubts over currency arrangements potentially triggering a capital flight over currency .

 

The company in which he is chairman of today is to slash up to 25000 and is considering moving its HQ out of the UK .

 

http://www.aol.co.uk/2015/06/09/hsbc-set-to-axe-up-to-25-000-jobs/?icid=maing-grid7%7Cuk%7Cdl1%7Csec1_lnk3%26pLid%3D357042&ncid=aolshare_facebook

Does his subsequent move invalidate what he said prior to the Referendum? I don't think so.

[Boris]

Interesting reading the Yes and No arguments from 1975. Which one rings true for you now....

Yes.... http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumYES.pdf

No.... http://www.civitas.org.uk/eufacts/1975ReferendumNO.pdf

 

From the YES pamphlet

 

Alternatives: Some want a communist Britain, part of the Soviet bloc.

 

[Arnold Rothstein]

I'd love it, if the SNP, withdrew from 2016 Holyrood elections, and left Slab first dibs on these mighty powers.

Lol. How would that help?

[jambo1185]

Kate Hoey being lined up to lead the No campaign (aka Out) apparently.

 

She's a really interesting Labour MP, but a very good one.

[ToadKiller Dog]

Andy Burnham booed at the GMB hustings for supporting the Tory Benefit cap .

[SE16 3LN]

Andy Burnham booed at the GMB hustings for supporting the Tory Benefit cap .

Quite right too. The only point of a benefit cap is to drive working class people out of London. Salmond supported it, as did 65% of the Scottish electorate according to recent polls. Sturgeon opposed because she knows the rest of the UK is exploiting London.

[Cade]

A benefit cap only works if the government can control prices of essential goods and services.

Since everything has been sold off and prices are being set by the free market, it won't work.

[jambos are go!]

A benefits cap so stringent that it does not protect the well being of kids in large families or those in extreme need is barbarism IMO. Lets hear any politician deny needy kids for the perceived sins of their parents.

[JamboX2]

Labour is very interesting at the moment.

 

In Scotland the party is in desperate need of newer blood and more energetic leadership. Of a reset.

 

At UK level it's fast becoming clear that they should not have ran head long into leadership elections. Miliband or Harman should have lead Labour on for a year. Review the election defeat, review the party structures and maintain unity against the Tories in that first 3 months to exploit growing tensions there.

 

As it is all the leadership contenders are fighting a battle of blandness between themselves because no one knows why they are where they are really and all are reverting to Blair in some ways and in others despite Blairism really being a one off phenomenon which in current times doesn't work.

 

Labour lost 2015 in the first weeks of the coalition in 2010 because there was no clear leader running the show. The same could happen again.

[Malinga the Swinga]

I'd love it, if the SNP, withdrew from 2016 Holyrood elections, and left Slab first dibs on these mighty powers.

Sure you aren't a Conservative, hoping your true party favourites pick up more seats. Why don't you campaign for this and see where it gets you and the SNP. Deserting the Scottish people because they failed to win a referendum; that's losers talk is it not. Reckon Greens would pick up a few seats as well, although Labour would probably get majority.

[aussieh]

Sure you aren't a Conservative, hoping your true party favourites pick up more seats. Why don't you campaign for this and see where it gets you and the SNP. Deserting the Scottish people because they failed to win a referendum; that's losers talk is it not. Reckon Greens would pick up a few seats as well, although Labour would probably get majority.

No, another 56 seats in 2020, UDI. Sorted.

No, its just a thought for future Scottish government, possibly labour, that these powers maybe theirs one day.

So be careful what your sending up to feck with SNP, these things will be law.

[Mikey1874]

Some naive but positive views

 

still waiting to hear specifically how independence will be better - just another form of government but they all have the same challenges

 

a least a debate started on tax so credit due though a bit inconsistent with the council tax freeze

[JamboX2]

No, another 56 seats in 2020, UDI. Sorted.

No, its just a thought for future Scottish government, possibly labour, that these powers maybe theirs one day.

So be careful what your sending up to feck with SNP, these things will be law.

Why another 56 seats? They've 56 now. Why not UDI now?

 

An empowered Scottish Parliament is good for all parties. Gives them options on how to exercise power and raise taxes. Only the SNP could argue that is a bad thing.

[JamboX2]

Some naive but positive views

 

still waiting to hear specifically how independence will be better - just another form of government but they all have the same challenges

 

a least a debate started on tax so credit due though a bit inconsistent with the council tax freeze

It won't. It's just an empowered government closer to home. Whether or not it's better is a side issue. How it would be better is again open to debate and it's likely things would stay pretty similar. After all we share an economy with the wider UK and a free market with Europe. Proposals for a currency union and EU membership and free trade in both the British Isles and the EU would limit the scope and ability to reform as you wished, as at the end of the day all decisions need to be made with the maintenance of the currency union / strengthening of the free market.

 

Scotland would be no better or worse off. Different policy decisions maybe, different ways to spend money, but tied to the same neo-liberal, free market capitalism that the western world has signed up to.

 

On tax, it is good we are seeing debate grow here. It will be harder for Scottish Governments to hide behind others when they have control over the purse strings. They want to top up benefits, they can do, but money must be found to pay for it (just like any independent nation). If that means an end to the council tax freeze or free car parking in hospitals, then maybe so be it. Some needs out weigh such things and Scots are not entirely used to seeing their politicians justify why they are spending on x but not y.

 

With power comes responsibility. With tax powers comes an ability to raise income to spend on services. Just like any other nation, Scotland would and her politicians would need to justify spending on certain things if others are to be cut.

[3fingersreid]

not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been asked and answered already but

 

Now I'm certainly not as clued up on politics as some are on here and I'm not a SNP voter or supporter but I do back their opinion of remaining in the EU ,but ,the way they have worded the statement that all 4 parts of the United Kingdom have to vote to leave the EU before it should happen could potentially now be used by the Tories when/if another referendum on the future of the Union arises again could it not?

In other words Scotland will only get independence if the rest of the Union agreed ?I appreciate we only voted on the independence question last time but this is the Tories I'm asking about , so is that possible ?

[aussieh]

Why another 56 seats? They've 56 now. Why not UDI now?

 

An empowered Scottish Parliament is good for all parties. Gives them options on how to exercise power and raise taxes. Only the SNP could argue that is a bad thing.

EMPOWER you say, thatd be good, but its not, theres more vat, but cutting your budget, but hey theres income tax powers make it up, by double tax, great, since theyre not.

Top line of mine was not serious X2, relax.

[jack D and coke]

Only the SNP could argue that is a bad thing.

You've obviously not seen Jack McConnell saying he was left shaking his head when he seen the smith proposals. I admired his honestly tbh it was pleasing to see him step away from labour's motto of "SNP bad nazi's" and actually give his opinion.

Labour are the enviable position now that they won't have to worry about power pretty much anywhere for years so they can sneer from the sidelines. I was going to say at both the Tories and the SNP but that would be ridiculous. The Tories are their pals now.

Edited June 10, 2015 by jack D and coke

[aussieh]

It won't. It's just an empowered government closer to home. Whether or not it's better is a side issue. How it would be better is again open to debate and it's likely things would stay pretty similar. After all we share an economy with the wider UK and a free market with Europe. Proposals for a currency union and EU membership and free trade in both the British Isles and the EU would limit the scope and ability to reform as you wished, as at the end of the day all decisions need to be made with the maintenance of the currency union / strengthening of the free market.

 

Scotland would be no better or worse off. Different policy decisions maybe, different ways to spend money, but tied to the same neo-liberal, free market capitalism that the western world has signed up to.

 

On tax, it is good we are seeing debate grow here. It will be harder for Scottish Governments to hide behind others when they have control over the purse strings. They want to top up benefits, they can do, but money must be found to pay for it (just like any independent nation). If that means an end to the council tax freeze or free car parking in hospitals, then maybe so be it. Some needs out weigh such things and Scots are not entirely used to seeing their politicians justify why they are spending on x but not y.

 

With power comes responsibility. With tax powers comes an ability to raise income to spend on services. Just like any other nation, Scotland would and her politicians would need to justify spending on certain things if others are to be cut.

Its more than X2, but you know that.

Of course itll be hard, and we'll feck up, but you have to learn from mistakes.

Scotland, not The UK, is the greatest mechanism to build it. Britain/UK/England, the world thinks theyre the same entity.

[jack D and coke]

Its more than X2, but you know that.

Of course itll be hard, and we'll feck up, but you have to learn from mistakes.

Scotland, not The UK, is the greatest mechanism to build it. Britain/UK/England, the world thinks theyre the same entity.

England is Britain and Britain is England. It's hard to argue with that as well tbh especially when most scots are happy to accept it.

I was in Brisbane a couple of years ago and got bangers and mash from an English pub and the guy after hearing my accent said do you mind mate it comes with an English flag in it? I laughed when it arrived with fecking Union jacks in the sausages. Ashes were on too and I heard Aussie radio, more than once, calling it the British cricket team as well

[IMac]

England is Britain and Britain is England. It's hard to argue with that as well tbh especially when most scots are happy to accept it.

I was in Brisbane a couple of years ago and got bangers and mash from an English pub and the guy after hearing my accent said do you mind mate it comes with an English flag in it? I laughed when it arrived with fecking Union jacks in the sausages. Ashes were on too and I heard Aussie radio, more than once, calling it the British cricket team as well

to be fair the scottish cricket team is shit. 

[jack D and coke]

to be fair the scottish cricket team is shit.

[emoji1]certainly is!

[JamboX2]

You've obviously not seen Jack McConnell saying he was left shaking his head when he seen the smith proposals. I admired his honestly tbh it was pleasing to see him step away from labour's motto of "SNP bad nazi's" and actually give his opinion.

Labour are the enviable position now that they won't have to worry about power pretty much anywhere for years so they can sneer from the sidelines. I was going to say at both the Tories and the SNP but that would be ridiculous. The Tories are their pals now.

I actually have seen McConnell's interview. He didn't say the proposals weren't good enough. He said the fact 56 SNP mps were elected has shifted the goal posts.

 

His proposal was a UK wide convention to assess devolution and balance power evenly. Whilst I agree we need a UK wide convention the fact is to not continue the Smith process would be an open goal to the SNP to claim the vow has been reneged on.

 

Fwiw, this is a huge constitutional mess and a convention is needed to sort it out. However, McConnell is not saying Smith doesn't go far enough, he was saying events have passed it by. I agree with him there, but we should still implement the package.

[JamboX2]

England is Britain and Britain is England. It's hard to argue with that as well tbh especially when most scots are happy to accept it.

I was in Brisbane a couple of years ago and got bangers and mash from an English pub and the guy after hearing my accent said do you mind mate it comes with an English flag in it? I laughed when it arrived with fecking Union jacks in the sausages. Ashes were on too and I heard Aussie radio, more than once, calling it the British cricket team as well

To be fair its the English and Welsh cricket team too.

[jack D and coke]

To be fair its the English and Welsh cricket team too.

If it was Scotland and NI would they call it the British team? Course they wouldn't. England is Britain even in countries where they should know better.

[aussieh]

60% SNP

19% Slab

15% STories

3% Libdem

73 out of 129 Msps.

And it will rise by next year, fecking tremendous.

[HaymarketJambo]

60% SNP

19% Slab

15% STories

3% Libdem

73 out of 129 Msps.

And it will rise by next year, fecking tremendous.

Saw that pole today, great news

[Busman2]

Aussieh if you think living in a one party state is a good thing then fill your boots,I think it will damage scotland

Edited June 10, 2015 by Busman2

[aussieh]

Aussieh if you think living in a one party state is a good thing then fill your boots,I think it will damage scotland

Its not the one party state you object too, its the party.

Didnt hear any complaints, when it was Slab.

Edited June 10, 2015 by aussieh

[jambo1185]

Why is it tremendous Aussieh? I thought you wanted the SNP to pull out of the Scottish elections? So why do you care how many people vote for them?

 

Interesting that so many Green voters seem to be backing the SNP in constituencies (makes complete sense if you are a pro-indy green I think). Also the gap between Tory and Labour continuing to close - "fecking tremendous" indeed.

[aussieh]

Why is it tremendous Aussieh? I thought you wanted the SNP to pull out of the Scottish elections? So why do you care how many people vote for them?

 

Interesting that so many Green voters seem to be backing the SNP in constituencies (makes complete sense if you are a pro-indy green I think). Also the gap between Tory and Labour continuing to close - "fecking tremendous" indeed.

I said id love, it be funny watching Slab trying to work the trap they and blue labour, are setting.

But the more indy parties the better, anything to seethe the onionists.

Is closing the gap when you become as pish as the party behind you.

[Thunderstruck]

I said id love, it be funny watching Slab trying to work the trap they and blue labour, are setting.

But the more indy parties the better, anything to seethe the onionists.

Is closing the gap when you become as pish as the party behind you.

You should probably contact Tech Support as your keyboard/chair interface has developed a logic problem.

[aussieh]

You should probably contact Tech Support as your keyboard/chair interface has developed a logic problem.

Enjoying the Sun.

[jack D and coke]

Didnt hear any complaints, when it was Slab.

Totally ironical as Charlie Nick might say.

50 years of labour domination after they demonised the Tories out of electability and it's all hunky dory but now they're getting a right royal dose of their own medicine it's a disaster.

The Labour Party are a parody these days.

Maybe if they changed their tune from "SNP bad" they might actually start making inroads. It's beyond them though I reckon.

[Thunderstruck]

Enjoying the Sun.

Lucky you.

[aussieh]

Totally ironical as Charlie Nick might say.

50 years of labour domination after they demonised the Tories out of electability and it's all hunky dory but now they're getting a right royal dose of their own medicine it's a disaster.

The Labour Party are a parody these days.

Maybe if they changed their tune from "SNP bad" they might actually start making inroads. It's beyond them though I reckon.

Spot on, once again.

Show me the Labour Party and I will vote for them, but I dont see one.

[Boris]

 Also the gap between Tory and Labour continuing to close - "fecking tremendous" indeed.

 

It's not that the Tories are catching up though, is it?  Their support has by and large remained constant around the 14-15% mark.  The gap closing is down to Labour "doing a Hibs" and going into freefall.

[jambo1185]

In the current political climate Boris you gotta clutch at the positives wherever you can find them!