Political history in the making tonight ?

[Drew Busby !]

Doesn't matter what your allegiences are, tonight at Crewe & Nantwitch is shaping up to be one of these landmark events that could go down in the political history books. Potentially the point where the end of Labour government is in sight ... and where the genuine resurgence of the Tory party becomes manifest.

 

• If you're a Tory, then this is the night where you can start to imagine perhaps a decade of Tory UK government.
  
• If you're Labour, then its a desperate hope that a bloody nose in this by-election wakes Labour up from out of their current sleep-walk to oblivion.
  
• If you're a Nat (I admit it) then theres the hope that this is another part of a "perfect storm" to come that might result in independence
  
• If you're Lib-Dem then ... eh I dunno ... I'll pass on that one !
  

 

Anyone staying up to watch it ? I'll have the coffee and digestives ready

[Toggie88]

I'm off work ill, and got no sleep last night. Still feel ****e so will probably be up all night again, glad there's something good to watch.

 

My prediction, Labour hold by less than a thousand votes.

 

Will be cheering on the Tories though...christ, never thought I'd say that.

[Drew Busby !]

I'm off work ill, and got no sleep last night. Still feel ****e so will probably be up all night again, glad there's something good to watch.

 

My prediction, Labour hold by less than a thousand votes.

 

Will be cheering on the Tories though...christ, never thought I'd say that.

 

Know what you're saying...

 

Read earlier today that the bookies were already paying out on the tory candidate winning. Lets face it they rarely get it wrong !

[Bonnie Prince Charlie]

I'm off work ill, and got no sleep last night. Still feel ****e so will probably be up all night again, glad there's something good to watch.

 

My prediction, Labour hold by less than a thousand votes.

 

Will be cheering on the Tories though...christ, never thought I'd say that.

 

You are well of the mark if you think liebour will win. The bookies are no mugs and the tories were 8/1 on on Saturday and ladbrokes stopped taking bets on Sunday. If you really think liebour will win then get a bet on and you would win a fortune. As a former miner brought up in a working class family where the Morning Star was the Daily read and everyone supported liebour apart from the grandparents who were communist party members I will be happy to see liebour get stuffed. It is time we broke away from this forced marriage and managed our own affairs.

[maltese jambo]

i think if it goes conservative, Brown will have to go. The electorate at every opportunity so far have been crystal clear that they do not want him.

 

Never liked Eric Pickles though, but the unpresedented negativity and hypocracy which the labour party have chose to ran their campeign on in Crewe puts me firmly behind the tories.

[billco98]

The precursor to Scottish Independence. Yes, history in the making right enough.

 

Yes, let's get back to 3.5 million on the dole, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, no minimum wage, no apprentices and no further improvements in public services (nasty waste of money) and continue down the road to hell in a hand cart - no thanks and stuff the UK in that case.

 

I'll go with an independent Scottish Republic, thank you very much and will actually pity our cousins south of the border when they see where right wing, Little Englander, foreigner bashing, reactionary and isolationist Tory government in perpetuity gets them - up **** creek without a paddle, that's where.

[CompleteIdiot]

The precursor to Scottish Independence. Yes, history in the making right enough.

 

Yes, let's get back to 3.5 million on the dole, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, no minimum wage, no apprentices and no further improvements in public services (nasty waste of money) and continue down the road to hell in a hand cart - no thanks and stuff the UK in that case.

 

I'll go with an independent Scottish Republic, thank you very much and will actually pity our cousins south of the border when they see where right wing, Little Englander, foreigner bashing, reactionary and isolationist Tory government in perpetuity gets them - up **** creek without a paddle, that's where.

 

I take it that you're not fond of the Conservative Party?

[jambos are go!]

Most by elections are meaningless . Thatcher and Major lost dozens only to recover them(some within months) at general elections. If Brown can handle the effects of the credit crunch and keep the economy growing over the next 2 years he will be re-elected IMO.

 

A financially competent Labour Party has great electoral appeal - again IMO. Thats why the opposition try to deride Browns record at every turn and say he was lucky. They wont be able to say that if weathers the present economic storms. Its a one trick tactic that could backfire.

[Toggie88]

Looks like the tories have walked it.

 

Apparently Labour were attacking the torie for driving a Bentley. What Labour never realised was that Bentley's are built in the constituency. They really are stoooopid.

[jamboinglasgow]

The precursor to Scottish Independence. Yes, history in the making right enough.

 

Yes, let's get back to 3.5 million on the dole, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, no minimum wage, no apprentices and no further improvements in public services (nasty waste of money) and continue down the road to hell in a hand cart - no thanks and stuff the UK in that case.

 

I'll go with an independent Scottish Republic, thank you very much and will actually pity our cousins south of the border when they see where right wing, Little Englander, foreigner bashing, reactionary and isolationist Tory government in perpetuity gets them - up **** creek without a paddle, that's where.

 

this annoys me alot, the idea that a party doesn't change over 20 years. Yes that happened in the thatcher era but the party has changed since then and if labour has changed so has the tories.

[CompleteIdiot]

this annoys me alot, the idea that a party doesn't change over 20 years. Yes that happened in the thatcher era but the party has changed since then and if labour has changed so has the tories.

 

I would rather deal with the Eurosceptic Tories. You know where you are with them. The rest are NWO shills.

 

The centre Tories and centre Labour are just a bunch of vote whores. They don't really believe in anything.

[CompleteIdiot]

Tories win.

[Toggie88]

Hammering!

[CompleteIdiot]

Hammering!

 

I feel dirty enjoying a Conservative win.

[neobis]

Hammering!

 

Yip!

 

Tamsin Dunwoody for a 49 year old looks awful, she probably smokes to age so quickly.

[CompleteIdiot]

Yip!

 

Tamsin Dunwoody for a 49 year old looks awful, she probably smokes to age so quickly.

 

Sex in the City Neobis reminds us of what gay men think about straight women again.

[neobis]

Sex in the City Neobis reminds us of what gay men think about straight women again.

 

You have already admitted tonight that a guy enters you CompleteIdiot ..not me!

 

 

What male watches Sex in the City? ....... I rest my case m'laud .... case closed.

[CompleteIdiot]

You have already admitted tonight that a guy enters you CompleteIdiot ..not me!

 

 

Dude, you are shallow and into Eurovision. That isn't straight. Come out of the closet!

[neobis]

Dude, you are shallow and into Eurovision. That isn't straight. Come out of the closet!

 

and you watch Sex in the City? ... you are already out of the closest.

 

Please dont call me dude, its not fitting for a guy who is 40 odd year old.

 

As already stated ...have you ever been to a Eurovision? ... although you believe the silly hype from this country to base your opinion ...... the irony is incredible.

 

I await your anti UK/council postings and remind you your narrow minded blinkered vision of such things as per Eurovision.

 

Its a bit like you and Israel, me having been on both sides the Palestinian and Israeli (staying in a Kibbutz) I see both sides however you have passed comment without being on both sides.

 

You keep your blinkered UK side whilst rebelling against it as it suits.

 

 

P.S - When are you fighting Mayweather as you stated you can take him? ..... ... once again m'laud ... I rest my case!

[CompleteIdiot]

and you watch Sex in the City? ... you are already out of the closest.

 

Please dont call me dude, its not fitting for a guy who is 40 odd year old.

 

As already stated ...have you ever been to a Eurovision? ... although you believe the silly hype from this country to base your opinion ...... the irony is incredible.

 

I await your anti UK/council postings and remind you your narrow minded blinkered vision of such things as per Eurovision.

 

Its a bit like you and Israel, me having been on both sides the Palestinian and Israeli (staying in a Kibbutz) I see both sides however you have passed comment without being on both sides.

 

You keep your blinkered UK side whilst rebelling against it as it suits.

 

 

P.S - When are you fighting Mayweather as you stated you can take him? ..... ... once again m'laud ... I rest my case!

 

I am not gay or female. Why would I attend a gay song contest? Dude.

[neobis]

I am not gay or female. Why would I attend a gay song contest? Dude.

 

So why watch Sex in the City

 

..... the impression .......

 

[Stuart Lyon]

Is it not Sex AND the City? That's what my wife always calls it.

[Coco]

Most by elections are meaningless . Thatcher and Major lost dozens only to recover them(some within months) at general elections. If Brown can handle the effects of the credit crunch and keep the economy growing over the next 2 years he will be re-elected IMO.

 

A financially competent Labour Party has great electoral appeal - again IMO. Thats why the opposition try to deride Browns record at every turn and say he was lucky. They wont be able to say that if weathers the present economic storms. Its a one trick tactic that could backfire.

 

The thought that the economically illiterate Brown would have any idea of how to 'handle the effects of the credit crunch' is absolutely hilarious.

 

His long term economic mismanagement is the prime reason behind the trashing that his party is getting at the polls.

 

It is sad that it has taken people so long to wake up to how bad a Chancellor he is ... it will end up with so much damage being done to the economy before he eventually gets booted out.

[felix]

The thought that the economically illiterate Brown would have any idea of how to 'handle the effects of the credit crunch' is absolutely hilarious.

 

His long term economic mismanagement is the prime reason behind the trashing that his party is getting at the polls.

 

It is sad that it has taken people so long to wake up to how bad a Chancellor he is ... it will end up with so much damage being done to the economy before he eventually gets booted out.

 

He has little control over global economics therefore it's a bit harsh to single out Brown as the prime reason for this defeat. Labour lost this seat for a number of reasons , I don't think Brown is the main one.

[Coco]

He has little control over global economics therefore it's a bit harsh to single out Brown as the prime reason for this defeat. Labour lost this seat for a number of reasons , I don't think Brown is the main one.

 

- Financial mis-regulation by Brown led to the first failure and nationalisation of a UK bank for generations.

- Failure to reference BoE re. asset prices has helped fuel house price bubble and now burst

- Combination of those 2 failures above led to house price bubble and burst.

- enormous increases in taxation and charges by Brown

- recent increase in taxation on the lowest paid in the country by Brown

- sale of Gold at long term record lows (imagine telling the market that you are going to sell gold each month - I am told gold traders call it the Brown Bottom)

- enormous increases in public sector squander

- plundering of fully funded private pension schemes for short term squander

- at the same time as plundering private pension schemes - gold plating the public sector pension schemes

- massive devaluation of the pound in the last year - bigger than the devaluation following the ERM

- waste on his social engineering 'tax credits' which have basically institutionalised dependence on the state - why not allow people to keep more of their own money?

- financing the 2 wars that our poor soldiers are fighting with no hope of any victory

- enormous off balance sheet debts - built up during the most benign period of global non-inflationary economic growth since the 1950s

 

Brown has been the most short termist of Chancellors. Tax and squander on the premise of 'investment' - and it will be at the long term cost of the country as the bills come in. People are finally recognising that it is Brown's fault. That he is an utterly disgusting man with a convenient wife is beside the point. His disastrous economic policies have just put us back into the 1970s.

[Stewart MacD]

The precursor to Scottish Independence. Yes, history in the making right enough.

 

Yes, let's get back to 3.5 million on the dole, double digit inflation, double digit interest rates, no minimum wage, no apprentices and no further improvements in public services (nasty waste of money) and continue down the road to hell in a hand cart - no thanks and stuff the UK in that case.

 

I'll go with an independent Scottish Republic, thank you very much and will actually pity our cousins south of the border when they see where right wing, Little Englander, foreigner bashing, reactionary and isolationist Tory government in perpetuity gets them - up **** creek without a paddle, that's where.

 

I can't add to that, but don't they need apprentices to go up the chimneys?

 

I disageee about pitying our distant cousins sarf of the border. HEHE. They'll probably leave the EU and fester in their own ******.

[Stuart Lyon]

What's a 'convenient wife'? Pray tell fountain of all matters economic. Why aren't you Chancellor?

[felix]

- Financial mis-regulation by Brown led to the first failure and nationalisation of a UK bank for generations.

- Failure to reference BoE re. asset prices has helped fuel house price bubble and now burst

- Combination of those 2 failures above led to house price bubble and burst.

- enormous increases in taxation and charges by Brown

- recent increase in taxation on the lowest paid in the country by Brown

- sale of Gold at long term record lows (imagine telling the market that you are going to sell gold each month - I am told gold traders call it the Brown Bottom)

- enormous increases in public sector squander

- plundering of fully funded private pension schemes for short term squander

- at the same time as plundering private pension schemes - gold plating the public sector pension schemes

- massive devaluation of the pound in the last year - bigger than the devaluation following the ERM

- waste on his social engineering 'tax credits' which have basically institutionalised dependence on the state - why not allow people to keep more of their own money?

- financing the 2 wars that our poor soldiers are fighting with no hope of any victory

- enormous off balance sheet debts - built up during the most benign period of global non-inflationary economic growth since the 1950s

 

Brown has been the most short termist of Chancellors. Tax and squander on the premise of 'investment' - and it will be at the long term cost of the country as the bills come in. People are finally recognising that it is Brown's fault. That he is an utterly disgusting man with a convenient wife is beside the point. His disastrous economic policies have just put us back into the 1970s.

 

Whilst some of your points may be correct, I think voters see Brown as someone who has overseen a healthy global economy over the past 10 years and is now in charge at a time when things aren't so rosy - hardly his fault.

You mention public sector squander but this government has invested more in the public sector during their term and financing the war is hardly Brown's fault ? .

 

The reality is the by-election was lost because the global economy is in a bit of a mess and people yearn for change in times like this..Labour fought an appallingly negative and insulting campaign and I reckon the effects of Iraq are still fresh in the minds of traditional Labour voters who have decided to turn their backs on the party. Unfair to pin this on Brown.

 

Is the result significant - Difficult to say, after all Kinnoch's lot won loads of dramatic by-elections; but when it came to the crunch, he was un-electable.

[upthehill]

Conservative Party Conference is on at Ayr Racecourse right now, great timing, hotel bar was bouncing last night!!!

 

Dave Cameron up today, the Scottish Conservatives are happy & confident!

[Drew Busby !]

What's a 'convenient wife'? Pray tell fountain of all matters economic. Why aren't you Chancellor?

 

Politicians need wives and children in order to generate empathy with the public...it indicates "normality" ...it allows them to posture on family matters, schooling, healthcare etc Yes, its true that many politicians are married because they met someone, fell in love ... just like the rest of us in fact. On the other hand a bachelor prime minister would be a very alien and unsympathetic public figure. If Broon is reviled now, how much worse would he be regarded if he hadn't tied the knot.

 

Being a single man - like it or not - invites too many questions in politics. "That question" would inevitably arise. And given that Brown shared a flat with Lord Murray Elder in his younger days, there could always be nods and winks.

 

Lord Elder never married I believe ?

[Coco]

Whilst some of your points may be correct, I think voters see Brown as someone who has overseen a healthy global economy over the past 10 years and is now in charge at a time when things aren't so rosy - hardly his fault.

You mention public sector squander but this government has invested more in the public sector during their term and financing the war is hardly Brown's fault ? .

 

The reality is the by-election was lost because the global economy is in a bit of a mess and people yearn for change in times like this..Labour fought an appallingly negative and insulting campaign and I reckon the effects of Iraq are still fresh in the minds of traditional Labour voters who have decided to turn their backs on the party. Unfair to pin this on Brown.

 

Is the result significant - Difficult to say, after all Kinnoch's lot won loads of dramatic by-elections; but when it came to the crunch, he was un-electable.

 

I think that now Brown is seen as a loser his supposed great record as a Chancellor will be picked apart by all sections of the media.

 

It is of course right to say that it is a protest vote - I presume that it is a protest vote against the awful state of the economy, falling house prices, removal of civil liberties, disastrous constitutional meddling, 2 unwinnable wars which continue to take blood and treasure, length of Government, awful Cabinet, negative campaigning - all that stuff. But central to it all is Brown. For all Blair's many faults - he was usually willing to face up to what he has done and why he had done it. Brown hides every time his decisions are called into question.

 

Brown will be gone by autumn I guess. Conservative party to win the next election. But the really interesting thing is going to be what happens up here. The SNP are doing a reasonable managerial job - they may well be more trusted now by the people. Are we going to see Brown cause the break up of the Union?

[jambos are go!]

- Financial mis-regulation by Brown led to the first failure and nationalisation of a UK bank for generations.

- Failure to reference BoE re. asset prices has helped fuel house price bubble and now burst

- Combination of those 2 failures above led to house price bubble and burst.

- enormous increases in taxation and charges by Brown

- recent increase in taxation on the lowest paid in the country by Brown

- sale of Gold at long term record lows (imagine telling the market that you are going to sell gold each month - I am told gold traders call it the Brown Bottom)

- enormous increases in public sector squander

- plundering of fully funded private pension schemes for short term squander

- at the same time as plundering private pension schemes - gold plating the public sector pension schemes

- massive devaluation of the pound in the last year - bigger than the devaluation following the ERM

- waste on his social engineering 'tax credits' which have basically institutionalised dependence on the state - why not allow people to keep more of their own money?

- financing the 2 wars that our poor soldiers are fighting with no hope of any victory

- enormous off balance sheet debts - built up during the most benign period of global non-inflationary economic growth since the 1950s

 

Brown has been the most short termist of Chancellors. Tax and squander on the premise of 'investment' - and it will be at the long term cost of the country as the bills come in. People are finally recognising that it is Brown's fault. That he is an utterly disgusting man with a convenient wife is beside the point. His disastrous economic policies have just put us back into the 1970s.

 

Brown has presided over 10 years of economic growth and everbody is much better off - including the rich. He's funded massive increases in public spending and tackled child poverty. Some of the poor are upto ?80 a week better off than 10 years ago. Ongoing economic growth has meant he can afford it by baking a much bigger cake. He's arranged for massive amounts of third World debt to be written off. If he weathers the current global economic storm he will rout the opposition IMO because as 'its the economy stupid' that most decides votes.

 

Most importantly he really cares about the poor and underpriveliged unlike the nasty party who despite calling him incompetent are saying they will follow his spending plans and leave his economic reforms in place.

[felix]

I think that now Brown is seen as a loser his supposed great record as a Chancellor will be picked apart by all sections of the media.

 

It is of course right to say that it is a protest vote - I presume that it is a protest vote against the awful state of the economy, falling house prices, removal of civil liberties, disastrous constitutional meddling, 2 unwinnable wars which continue to take blood and treasure, length of Government, awful Cabinet, negative campaigning - all that stuff. But central to it all is Brown. For all Blair's many faults - he was usually willing to face up to what he has done and why he had done it. Brown hides every time his decisions are called into question.

Brown will be gone by autumn I guess. Conservative party to win the next election. But the really interesting thing is going to be what happens up here. The SNP are doing a reasonable managerial job - they may well be more trusted now by the people. Are we going to see Brown cause the break up of the Union?

 

Agree with what you say except the bits in bold - you're getting Brown & Blair mixed up.

[deesidejambo]

Brown has presided over 10 years of economic growth and everbody is much better off - including the rich.

 

Wrong - thanks to stealth taxes and raids on Pension funds I am worse off than I would have been.

[Billy the Jambo]

Wrong - thanks to stealth taxes and raids on Pension funds I am worse off than I would have been.

 

We will be a lot worse off if Cameron and his Eton toffs get in at the next election .If that happens i am leaving the country a leopard never changes its spots as the saying goes .If the tories get in they will privatise anything that moves ,they will probably abolish the minimum wage ,and there will be no more nhs the doctors in hospitals will be looking for your bank account number before they treat you and we will have to pay a hefty health insurance bill each month and if you cant afford that then god fecking help you and thats just the start of it .The tories getting elected will be the death of this country

[jambos are go!]

Wrong - thanks to stealth taxes and raids on Pension funds I am worse off than I would have been.

 

Then you are the exception to the rule. Everyone is much better off - Source Andrew Marr for one. There are a multidude of other sources that agree.

[Boris]

Wrong - thanks to stealth taxes and raids on Pension funds I am worse off than I would have been.

 

It was the Tories who introduced Stealth taxes. Brown is simply playing with the same deck.

 

That isn't to say stealth taxes are right, just that to blame Brown for them is wrong.

[Boris]

We will be a lot worse off if Cameron and his Eton toffs get in at the next election .If that happens i am leaving the country a leopard never changes its spots as the saying goes .If the tories get in they will privatise anything that moves ,they will probably abolish the minimum wage ,and there will be no more nhs the doctors in hospitals will be looking for your bank account number before they treat you and we will have to pay a hefty health insurance bill each month and if you cant afford that then god fecking help you and thats just the start of it .The tories getting elected will be the death of this country

 

I agree with most of what you say. I certainly think that they could precipitate the break up of the UK (ironic for the Conservative and UNIONIST Party that).

 

The excesses of privatisation, especially with regards to the NHS would not necessarily be felt up here though due to the powers of Holyrood and what is and is not a devolved issue. That doesn't make it right for our comrades down south though....

[Stuart Lyon]

Drew Busby your explanation of a convenient wife is just a bit simple in my view and by insinuating either directly or indirectly that GB's sexuality is questionable you have lowered the level of the debate.

[Boris]

On the other hand a bachelor prime minister would be a very alien and unsympathetic public figure.

 

Although not British, it seemed to work in old Adolph's favour!

[Boaby Ewing]

Er, Ted Heath anyone?

 

Granted, we live in different times - ironically, it seems the Great British public would be less accepting of a 'bachelor *cough bummer cough*' PM now.

[Drew Busby !]

Drew Busby your explanation of a convenient wife is just a bit simple in my view and by insinuating either directly or indirectly that GB's sexuality is questionable you have lowered the level of the debate.

 

Not insinuating any such thing Stuart, in fact Brown had long standing documented relationships with a couple of women but where he didn't commit. Pointing out though - cynically and correctly in my view - that politicians a) use "family" for their own PR and that if they don't then they end up being open to nudge-nudge wink-wink questionmarks. DDLN has indeed pointed out a bachelor PM (I'd forgotten about Heath)...how could I have forgotten him ! (my era too...)

 

Sorry if I lowered the tone by putting my cynics hat on when it comes to politicians !

 

Edit: this BBC personal profile of Brown from a year ago makes some similar points, albeit better than me.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5238202.stm

 

.

[Ulysses]

a) use "family" for their own PR.....

 

I think recent PR events demonstrate that Gordon Brown has shown a little more integrity than David Cameron. Now there's a cynic if I ever saw one.