Summary of Hearts financial position over the Romanov years

[Tommy Brown]

Figures from the 2008 accounts in ?k's

 

Turnover 9,161

Staff costs (11,319)

Depreciation (2,845) - Includes (2,206) written off intangible assets i.e. player contracts for Gordon + Bednar I assume

Operation costs - (6,243)

------------------------------

Operating Loss (11,246)

Gain of player registrations 9,964

-----------------------------

Loss before interest (1,282)

Interest (2,248)

-----------------------------

Loss (3,530)

Would be good to be able to comb through those staff costs and see who was earning what.

We will never really know, I suppose.

[Spencer]

We owed it to ourselves though...........that was the line we got was it not?

Some of the Vlad loving imbeciles that peddled that line and worse have no right to have access to the internet

[royal navy hearts man]

Was a hell of a ride though!

[Yoda]

We must've had about approaching 50 signed players at that point though

 

IIRC it was around 90 odd players we had on the books at one time.  JJ comeneted that new players were turning up at training every week and he didn't know who they were.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Some of the Vlad loving imbeciles that peddled that line and worse have no right to have access to the internet

Do Chelsea have debt Spencer? If so, to whom do they owe it?

[Jamboy81]

What was even more bewildering than the actual debt management itself, were the copious amounts of fannys on here telling us that ?50m of debt was nothing to worry about

 

I wonder if we'll have any such Alan Sugars elected to the board one day..

[Spencer]

Do Chelsea have debt Spencer? If so, to whom do they owe it?

Have Chelsea entered Administration Geoff?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Have Chelsea entered Administration Geoff?

If Sibneft went bust tomorrow, what do you think would happen?

 

Answering a question with a question is deflection.

[dkmmgcycbwc]

2 things WE owe Romanov.

1 Tynecastle still exists.

2 By accident or design he made sure our biggest creditor was not Inland Revenue. If it had been we would now be dead.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

2 things WE owe Romanov.

1 Tynecastle still exists.

2 By accident or design he made sure our biggest creditor was not Inland Revenue. If it had been we would now be dead.

Correct.

 

But that is imbecilic thinking, apparently.

[Clerry Jambo]

2 things WE owe Romanov.

1 Tynecastle still exists.

2 By accident or design he made sure our biggest creditor was not Inland Revenue. If it had been we would now be dead.

[XB52]

anyone who says Romanov was all good for Hearts is as bad as anyone saying he was all bad. I will always be glad he turned up and saved the club but there was so much he did wrong in his time with us. 

[Francis Albert]

Some of the Vlad loving imbeciles that peddled that line and worse have no right to have access to the internet

Surely the fact that nearly ?30m of debt (almost all the new debt created under Vlad) was forgiven or written off suggests there was something in the "we owe it to ourselves" argument.

[DETTY29]

Re Chelsea,

 

I've barely even skim read these articles, but they were debt free in 2009 after ?370m loans were converted to equity.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/dec/30/roman-abramovich-chelsea-debts-accounts

 

Although according to the Telegraph he has provided over ?700m loans altogether.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/10149386/How-Chelsea-owner-Roman-Abramovich-changed-the-face-of-football-in-England.html

 

But according to Guardian this year, net debt for Chelsea for 2012-2013 is ?958m

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/01/premier-league-club-accounts-debt-wages.

 

If UBIG (and UKIO) hadn't gone bust, we would probably still be living the roller coaster of a parent company subsidising the football club's losses.

 

I'm glad it's all over considering some of the very poor on field decisions made.

 

As long as we get promoted this year.  Next year at a push as long as it's not Hibs that beat us, then I might rather be back with (a solvent) Vlad.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

Re Chelsea,

 

I've barely even skim read these articles, but they were debt free in 2009 after ?370m loans were converted to equity.

 

http://www.theguardian.com/football/2009/dec/30/roman-abramovich-chelsea-debts-accounts

 

Although according to the Telegraph he has provided over ?700m loans altogether.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/chelsea/10149386/How-Chelsea-owner-Roman-Abramovich-changed-the-face-of-football-in-England.html

 

But according to Guardian this year, net debt for Chelsea for 2012-2013 is ?958m

 

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2014/may/01/premier-league-club-accounts-debt-wages.

 

If UBIG (and UKIO) hadn't gone bust, we would probably still be living the roller coaster of a parent company subsidising the football club's losses.

 

I'm glad it's all over considering some of the very poor on field decisions made.

 

As long as we get promoted this year. Next year at a push as long as it's not Hibs that beat us, then I might rather be back with (a solvent) Vlad.

Quite.

 

Anyone want to put a "tick tock" over Stamford Bridge?

[Jammy T]

Not bad for two scottish cups and champions league qualifiers.

 

Compared to the Pieman.

A cup win and group stages of UEFA league, a title challenge for longer than Romanov managed and successful rebuild of half of Tynecastle. Good football for a period longer than one season.

 

All of this at the peak of Rangers and Celtic spending powers

 

Arguably better success globally from Robinson if you ask me.

[Jammy T]

So in real terms our debt at the end of Vlad's reign was pretty much the same as the debt he inherited. Under CPR however ...

Robinson didn't have the wherewithal to commit finance crimes though....(allegedly) and ultimately we didn't go bust under him in any event and didn't get relegated.....

[Jammy T]

Robinson.

 

1million to 21million in a few years.

To be fair, without cooking the books Romanov took us from ?20m to ?60m in 4 or 5 years.

 

If you are being fair handed about it all

[We_are_the_Hearts]

To be fair, without cooking the books Romanov took us from ?20m to ?60m in 4 or 5 years.

 

If you are being fair handed about it all

And without building 3 new stands!

[Diego10]

Figures from the 2008 accounts in ?k's

 

Turnover 9,161

Staff costs (11,319)

Depreciation (2,845) - Includes (2,206) written off intangible assets i.e. player contracts for Gordon + Bednar I assume

Operation costs - (6,243)

------------------------------

Operating Loss (11,246)

Gain of player registrations 9,964

-----------------------------

Loss before interest (1,282)

Interest (2,248)

-----------------------------

Loss (3,530)

the operation costs seem insanely high that year. You had also quoted ?12m DfE swap as being in that year which is why I asked. If we Brought in 10m in transfers and a further 12m was written off that looks like a 16m(ish) Loss in the headline figures. In a year.

[Rudy T]

Robinson got caught out by trying to keep us in line with the old firm who were spending an incredible amount of money at that time, rangers midfield for example, around 1998 was van bronkhurst, gazza, laudrup, guttso we also saw tugay, negri the ?12m Flo and many others the likes we'll probably never see agan in Scottish football. We as fans have to shoulder some of the blame as we were demanding Robinson keep pace with the old fim. He did rebuild tynie and win us a trophy.

 

BUT

 

When things started to go breasts north, he hit the panic button and got us deeper into debt as opposed to trying to address it. Fairly sure he did a number on Leslie Deans to stop him seeing the extent of the damage - then he really lost the plot with the Tynecastle not fit for purpose routine and the murrayfield move........this in turn lead to Romanov as he was waving the dollars at Pieman.

 

So IMO Robinson is directly responsible for the mess we ended up in, and still has the cheek to turn up free gratis at the games.

[We_are_the_Hearts]

Robinson got caught out by trying to keep us in line with the old firm who were spending an incredible amount of money at that time, rangers midfield for example, around 1998 was van bronkhurst, gazza, laudrup, guttso we also saw tugay, negri the ?12m Flo and many others the likes we'll probably never see agan in Scottish football. We as fans have to shoulder some of the blame as we were demanding Robinson keep pace with the old fim. He did rebuild tynie and win us a trophy.

 

BUT

 

When things started to go breasts north, he hit the panic button and got us deeper into debt as opposed to trying to address it. Fairly sure he did a number on Leslie Deans to stop him seeing the extent of the damage - then he really lost the plot with the Tynecastle not fit for purpose routine and the murrayfield move........this in turn lead to Romanov as he was waving the dollars at Pieman.

 

So IMO Robinson is directly responsible for the mess we ended up in, and still has the cheek to turn up free gratis at the games.

You missed Kanchelskis, Albertz and De Boer as well, scary to think of the players they bought at that time!

[Footballfirst]

the operation costs seem insanely high that year. You had also quoted ?12m DfE swap as being in that year which is why I asked. If we Brought in 10m in transfers and a further 12m was written off that looks like a 16m(ish) Loss in the headline figures. In a year.

The dates are correct for the DFE swap being included in that set of accounts.  It wouldn't show on the P&L for the year, but would reduce the balance due to UBIG and the net debt position.

 

Like you, my thinking would have the trading loss at around ?16M, rather than ?11.25M, but I haven't had the time (or the inclination) to read through the 2008 accounts forensically to find out exactly where the difference is accounted for. However a quick check shows that the amount due to UBIG only fell from ?15.7M to ?9.6M, a drop of ?6.1M despite the ?12M write off.

 

The other Operational costs were even worse the previous year at ?7.692M

 

Edit:  I've just noticed in the footnote to the Creditors position in the 2008 accounts which states that ?6M was due to UBIG in Loan notes, but that "The remaining balance is in respect of payments for player transfers made by the ultimate parent company on behalf of the company"

 

That reads to me as if a lot of the player trading (Lithuanian and others) was funded directly by UBIG and was not included under the normal category of "player trading"

[Jammy T]

So IMO Robinson is directly responsible for the mess we ended up in, and still has the cheek to turn up free gratis at the games.

If Romanov had forgiven ?20M of debt at the start of his tenure we'd have been debt free.

 

Its Romanov's fault we got in the mess we did, as he still had it within his power to get us out of it.

[Diego10]

The dates are correct for the DFE swap being included in that set of accounts. It wouldn't show on the P&L for the year, but would reduce the balance due to UBIG and the net debt position.

 

Like you, my thinking would have the trading loss at around ?16M, rather than ?11.25M, but I haven't had the time (or the inclination) to read through the 2008 accounts forensically to find out exactly where the difference is accounted for. However a quick check shows that the amount due to UBIG only fell from ?15.7M to ?9.6M, a drop of ?6.1M despite the ?12M write off.

 

The other Operational costs were even worse the previous year at ?7.692M

from memory was there not questions raised of Roman Romanov about where the operational costs were going amid rumours of payments to Lithuania? Seem to recall he got quite stroppy about it.

[Paolo]

If Romanov had forgiven ?20M of debt at the start of his tenure we'd have been debt free.

 

Its Romanov's fault we got in the mess we did, as he still had it within his power to get us out of it.

Firstly, it wasn't his debt to forgive, until it was transferred over?

 

Secondly, why should he have done that? As a big Hearts fan, I certainly would not have.

[Jammy T]

Firstly, it wasn't his debt to forgive, until it was transferred over?

 

Secondly, why should he have done that? As a big Hearts fan, I certainly would not have.

He could have forgiven any of our debt he wanted with his financial slight of hand, but he didnt. What he did towards the end of his time was pointless, meaningless and didnt save us. Not sure why he gets any credit for this at all - it wasnt even his money.

[Coco]

from memory was there not questions raised of Roman Romanov about where the operational costs were going amid rumours of payments to Lithuania? Seem to recall he got quite stroppy about it.

 

There were unanswered questions about ?3.8m or so of payments - speculated to be transfer fees routed to Kaunas if I remember rightly.

[Diego10]

There were unanswered questions about ?3.8m or so of payments - speculated to be transfer fees routed to Kaunas if I remember rightly.

aye, that sounds right.

 

It was some caper.

[Jammy T]

There were unanswered questions about ?3.8m or so of payments - speculated to be transfer fees routed to Kaunas if I remember rightly.

I'd be fairly certain that unanswered outgoings were "pocketed" by individuals whereas heavily advertised debt forgiveness came from corporate sources without any impact on said individuals....

[Gorgie_Rules]

Those figures show that even if Romanov's plan worked best case scenario it still wouldnt have been sustainable. If we won the league and got the reported ?10million windfall from being in the champions league groups it still wouldnt clear the debt, would take a run of consecutive league wins to come near to it.

 

Administration was the only realistic way we were going to clear the debt from the Robinson era regardless of the Romanov era