dundee v hearts 1986

[desperate]

Can someone please remind me who refereed this game?

[Father Tiresias]

Can someone please remind me who refereed this game?

 

Bill Crombie, a Hearts supporter!!

[dixie]

Bill Crombie from Edinburgh was the ref on that fateful day....alledgedly a Hearts man as well !

[desperate]

Bill Crombie, a Hearts supporter!!

 

CHEERS MATE

[Rudolf's Mate]

As much as I'd like to say that we were in control of our own fate...... The way they won it doesn't sit well with me one bit.

[Ogi fae Gorgie]

Not allegedly....IS. Never gave us a stonewall pen either.

[rudi]

Still a pen for the trip on Sandy Clarke would have helped.

Jambo bassa referee.

[Buffalo Bill]

Still a pen for the trip on Sandy Clarke would have helped.

Jambo bassa referee.

 

And of course it was commited by none other than Colin 'Wurzel Gummage' Hendry.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

[Del1812]

Penalty was not a stonewaller in my opinion. Was it a penalty? I'd say yes but to use the phrase stonewaller suggests no doubt whatsoever. I'd say there was doubt.

[joe1874]

please we have just had a bad season and this comes up push the knife harder in my back

[Martin_T]

On the subject of 1986...I've always been of the opinion that Hearts failure to secure the title, was Hearts fault and Hearts fault only. If Hearts had done the business at Dens Park, St Mirren could have played Paisley Panda in goals and been walloped 50-0, it would have mattered not a jot.

[The Old Tolbooth]

Penalty was not a stonewaller in my opinion. Was it a penalty? I'd say yes but to use the phrase stonewaller suggests no doubt whatsoever. I'd say there was doubt.

 

Get lost, we're allowed to be biased

[Hilary Briss]

Not allegedly....IS. Never gave us a stonewall pen either.

 

Correct, he used to stay round the conrer from me at Sighthill. I think he had to swerve the Dodger for a while after.

 

Dunno if its true, but I was told there was a bit pressure on him from SFA him not to be biased as they knew he was a hearts man, which had an effect on his decision.

[Horse]

On the subject of 1986...I've always been of the opinion that Hearts failure to secure the title, was Hearts fault and Hearts fault only. If Hearts had done the business at Dens Park, St Mirren could have played Paisley Panda in goals and been walloped 50-0, it would have mattered not a jot.

 

Don't think mascots like Paisley Panda were around in those days but take your point;)

[awadooningorgie2]

We really didn't turn up on the day when all is said and done. Pressure, flu bug, well who will ever know. We had Levein out that day - Robbo too if I remember correctly?

[Craigieboy]

I take it we aren't getting our 1986 programme this time around?

 

Cancelled one week & then it has been dumped.

 

.

[alwaysthereinspirit]

As much as I'd like to say that we were in control of our own fate...... The way they won it doesn't sit well with me one bit.

 

St Midden did lay down that day. We all know this but if we had won or drawn then Celtic could have scored 345,641 goals and we'd still have won the league. We blew it.

[Dirk Diggler]

We really didn't turn up on the day when all is said and done. Pressure, flu bug, well who will ever know. We had Levein out that day - Robbo too if I remember correctly?

 

If stories are to be believed by members of the Hearts squad that day, Bill Crombie had entered the dressing room before kick off and told them that no penalties would be awarded.

 

You're right, we never turned up.

 

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have been awarded a penalty at 0-0.

 

St Mirren had not conceded more than 2 goals in any one game before the last day of the season (IIRC) yet lose 5 against Celtic.

 

 

The whole episode doesn't sit well with me and never will.

[Craigieboy]

 

St Mirren had not conceded more than 2 goals in any one game before the last day of the season (IIRC) yet lose 5 against Celtic.

 

 

The whole episode doesn't sit well with me and never will.

 

I feel the same mate.

 

Hate them. Hope they go down next season.

 

Also have no time for Dundee. Wanted them in the final instead of Gretna so that we could have battered them.

 

*******s.

 

.

[Flo]

We really didn't turn up on the day when all is said and done. Pressure, flu bug, well who will ever know. We had Levein out that day - Robbo too if I remember correctly?

 

Team was -

 

Smith ; Kidd, Sandy Jardine, Roddy MacDonald, Whittaker ; Iain Jardine, Berry, Gary MacKay ; Colquhoun, Clark, Robertson.

 

Black came on for Whittaker (54 mins)

Billy MacKay came on for Iain Jardine (85 mins)

 

Flu bug or not, we blew it. The 2-6 defeat by St Mirren earlier in the season and a failure to win two matches (0-1 and 1-1) at Kilbowie against a rank Clydebank team is what cost us....

[Dirk Diggler]

I feel the same mate.

 

Hate them. Hope they go down next season.

 

Also have no time for Dundee. Wanted them in the final instead of Gretna so that we could have battered them.

 

*******s.

 

.

 

You didn't see the interview on Scotland today with the St Mirren chairman did you?

 

He was asked if suggestions that any team would lie down to either half of the old firm were 'insulting'.

 

He said the players would find those suggestions insulting.

 

I was close to putting my foot through the telly.

[John S]

Bill Crombie, a Hearts supporter!!

 

Chizzy - Although I'm not 100% sure now having read your response, I was always pretty certain that the ref that day was George Smith. I've met Bill Crombie several times and he's never mentioned it (but in fairness you wouldn't would you?) and since reading your post I've scoured the net for confirmation, but to no avail.

 

All my Hearts stuff is in the loft and I cant be bothered hunting it out, but I know I'd find confirmation there. If anyone has John Fairgrieve's (excellent) book 'The Boys in Maroon' to hand it would be in there, or even in Mike Aitkens book of the same year.

 

As I say, my memory may be playing tricks on me but I’m certain it was George Smith.

 

As an aside - looks like your avatar is Warren Zevon? A hugely talented guy, I've liked him since he played with Linda Ronstadt in the late 70s; sadly he passed away a few years ago, but he did produce some great stuff, notably 'Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner' which I see you refer to - good taste mate.

[Craigieboy]

You didn't see the interview on Scotland today with the St Mirren chairman did you?

 

He was asked if suggestions that any team would lie down to either half of the old firm were 'insulting'.

 

He said the players would find those suggestions insulting.

 

I was close to putting my foot through the telly.

 

Saw it.

 

To be honest, the guy looked like a ******.

 

Had to laugh at his comments.

 

*****!

 

.

[The cruckie cookie]

If stories are to be believed by members of the Hearts squad that day, Bill Crombie had entered the dressing room before kick off and told them that no penalties would be awarded.

 

You're right, we never turned up.

 

That doesn't mean we shouldn't have been awarded a penalty at 0-0.

 

St Mirren had not conceded more than 2 goals in any one game before the last day of the season (IIRC) yet lose 5 against Celtic.

 

 

The whole episode doesn't sit well with me and never will.

 

So the ref decided that a fundemental rule of the game would just be wiped from the rule book...Give me a break mate.

 

We lost the League Billy big time because we never turned up.

 

Flu bug or not we choked. And yes St Mirren IMO lay down to celtic, however as many on here have said, If we had won that day it wouldn't have mattered what happened in paisley.

 

Ref rules out penalties (ahem) Bollards

[Father Tiresias]

Chizzy - Although I'm not 100% sure now having read your response, I was always pretty certain that the ref that day was George Smith. I've met Bill Crombie several times and he's never mentioned it (but in fairness you wouldn't would you?) and since reading your post I've scoured the net for confirmation, but to no avail.

 

All my Hearts stuff is in the loft and I cant be bothered hunting it out, but I know I'd find confirmation there. If anyone has John Fairgrieve's (excellent) book 'The Boys in Maroon' to hand it would be in there, or even in Mike Aitkens book of the same year.

 

As I say, my memory may be playing tricks on me but I’m certain it was George Smith.

 

As an aside - looks like your avatar is Warren Zevon? A hugely talented guy, I've liked him since he played with Linda Ronstadt in the late 70s; sadly he passed away a few years ago, but he did produce some great stuff, notably 'Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner' which I see you refer to - good taste mate.

 

It was definitely Bill Crombie!! I used to work in the council computer centre at Chesser House occasionally and Crombie was a security guard there.

 

I've got loads of WZ stuff including a nine DVD collection which a lady in New Jersey was kind enough to send me. His last interview on the

show is particularly moving when he sings Roland.

[Ben Dover]

Aye, it was definitely Bill Crombie

 

Various versions of events have been circulating over the years, one being that he felt that he could not give a Pen due to being well known as a 'Hearts man'

I dont imagine anybody wants to dredge that up again ...........but yes we should have put it to bed much earlier than that.

I've not seen the St Lie-down highlights since that night but at the time I thought the Tic just went at them like a train ?

However at least one decent journalist ( maybe Fairgrieve himself ) felt driven to write that the game had been shamed at Love St that day

[interista]

Aye, it was definitely Bill Crombie

 

Various versions of events have been circulating over the years, one being that he felt that he could not give a Pen due to being well known as a 'Hearts man'

I dont imagine anybody wants to dredge that up again ...........but yes we should have put it to bed much earlier than that.

I've not seen the St Lie-down highlights since that night but at the time I thought the Tic just went at them like a train ?

However at least one decent journalist ( maybe Fairgrieve himself ) felt driven to write that the game had been shamed at Love St that day

 

A misguided sense of duty from Crombie there then. How many refs over the years have gifted pens and other decisions to OF teams despite being well known "sympathisers"?

 

After 1986 and 2002 (with Inter), yesterday's last day of the season title win by Inter was a major relief for me.

[tcjambo]

I can't help but think the 1-0 against Clydebank the week before cost us dear. I thought we'd win 4-0 or 5-0 - they were already relegated. If they'd had to get 8 no-one could have doubted a fix.

[Rees1874]

was defo Bill Crombie!

 

he used to referee boys club level a few of years ago not sure if he is anymore.

 

I was playin for Salvesen at the time against Mussie windsor and got fouled in the box and he didnt give the penalty. So u shouted that was just as much of a stone waller as 86 ya cheatin **** dont think he was too amused came over booked me and said im lucky not 2 have been sent off.

 

Hated him for 86 and hated him even more after that haha

[neave]

Lives in Sighthill Loan opposite St Nicholas' Church if you're interested. Next stair to my dad (check the name plate), third floor up

 

EDIT: The man's a wee Hitler ****, by the way. Your typical nosey, arsehole neighbour whocomplains about a leaf dropping next to his car.

[HawaiiJambo]

The only luck I had that day was missing the drive back after the game as I lived in Tombstone (Aberdeen), but heard it was pretty hard with all the ticks coming out of the woodwork on the overpasses.

 

It should make for an interesting drive back to weggie land on Thursday:wavey:

[TexasAndy]

Crombie admitted to his workmates the following week that the foul on Clark was indeed a penalty. The reason he never gave it was that it was 'too early'.

[Ben Dover]

A misguided sense of duty from Crombie there then. How many refs over the years have gifted pens and other decisions to OF teams despite being well known "sympathisers"?

 

After 1986 and 2002 (with Inter), yesterday's last day of the season title win by Inter was a major relief for me.

 

I cant recall the incident at all to be honest, although I was there

I imagine if it had been a clear stonewaller, as in a guy being scythed down from behind in clear view of everyone, then he would have awarded it no problem. However players tumbling in the box 'under minimal contact' can go either way..............either to Celtic or to Rangers

 

As for the Bankies game...........yeh, whilst you cant pin a season down to one game - that was one we should have nailed and the jitters clearly showed that day

[interista]

I cant recall the incident at all to be honest, although I was there

I imagine if it had been a clear stonewaller, as in a guy being scythed down from behind in clear view of everyone, then he would have awarded it no problem. However players tumbling in the box 'under minimal contact' can go either way..............either to Celtic or to Rangers

 

As for the Bankies game...........yeh, whilst you cant pin a season down to one game - that was one we should have nailed and the jitters clearly showed that day

 

I'm sure the penalty incident is discussed with Sandy Clark on the Bank from the Brink video/DVD.

[Walter Bishop]

Peter Godfrey, (ex St Mirren captain and Rangers supporter) told a story at a sportsman dinner about the after match celebrations, He said he and a couple of other St Mirren players stormed out because there was more celebrations coming from the St Mirren Dressing room than from Celtics!!

[Gibbo]

I had an excellent view of the penalty claim at Dens in 86 & it was definitely a foul but it was the sort of challenge that might have looked innocuous from other angles.

 

Can i add the 1-1 draw with Celtic at home on the first day of the season to the list of games that cost us the league? Neil Berry had Paul McStay in his back pocket for 85 minutes but then had to go off injured & McStay equalised in injury time.

[Hilary Briss]

ICan i add the 1-1 draw with Celtic at home on the first day of the season to the list of games that cost us the league? Neil Berry had Paul McStay in his back pocket for 85 minutes but then had to go off injured & McStay equalised in injury time.

 

The pumping we took of st midden at start of the season didnt help either.........I cant remember score. Its one of the few games I missed that season as I was on holiday.

[winston churchill]

It was definitely Bill Crombie!! I used to work in the council computer centre at Chesser House occasionally and Crombie was a security guard there.

I've got loads of WZ stuff including a nine DVD collection which a lady in New Jersey was kind enough to send me. His last interview on the

show is particularly moving when he sings Roland.

 

 

 

changed days indeed,as he worked at ferrantis at crewtoll in 86.

[Eggo]

And of course it was commited by none other than Colin 'Wurzel Gummage' Hendry.

 

 

Buffalo Bill

 

.

 

 

 

Was it not Bobby Glennie,as he told me it was him,,,while laughing like ****!

[Denny Crane]

I can't help but think the 1-0 against Clydebank the week before cost us dear. I thought we'd win 4-0 or 5-0 - they were already relegated. If they'd had to get 8 no-one could have doubted a fix.

 

 

No they were not. Due to the Premier League being expanded to 12 teams for season 86/87, relegation was not in force for 85/86.

 

As for the game itself (and the 1-1 v Aberdeen the week before), you could tell that the strain - both physically and mentally - was beginning to wear them down. Celtic had been down this road before and knew what to expect and how to cope with it. Only the likes of Alex MacDonald, Sandy Jardine and Roddy McDonald had been through it previously.

[MrH]

I had an excellent view of the penalty claim at Dens in 86 & it was definitely a foul but it was the sort of challenge that might have looked innocuous from other angles.

 

You can see why Crombie didn't give it though (aside from it being too early!) - the Dundee player doesn't quite go through the back of Sandy - it's more from the side, and although he does bring him down he hooks his foot around the ball quite cleanly.

 

It's the old referees' 'fear' problem again isn't it? If a ref who was a known Jambo awarded us a penalty in the first minute of that crucial game and it hadn't been conclusive, the press would have gone to town on him. It probably wasn't fair giving him this game to be honest.

[H2]

It was a stone waller.

To say we did not turn up is unfair. The players worked their bollocks off and were unlucky. We almost equalised immediatly after Bobby Ball scored. Alas it just was not to be.

Ah well there's always next season!

[mac]

I had an excellent view of the penalty claim at Dens in 86 & it was definitely a foul but it was the sort of challenge that might have looked innocuous from other angles.

 

Can i add the 1-1 draw with Celtic at home on the first day of the season to the list of games that cost us the league? Neil Berry had Paul McStay in his back pocket for 85 minutes but then had to go off injured & McStay equalised in injury time.

Gibbo, even the Sunday Mail had the McStay goal scored in the 91.5 minute.

[Shaggy2]

Crombie admitted to his workmates the following week that the foul on Clark was indeed a penalty. The reason he never gave it was that it was 'too early'.

 

That's the one I heard and I'm pretty sure it does happen.

 

The one I remember in that category was at the start of 2005/06 when we went to ICT for our seventh win on the trot. Hearts kicked off and after a neat passing move Roman Bednar was brought down within 10 seconds and it was a clear professional foul and the ICT player wasn't even booked. It sticks in my mind because we were hanging on for a wee while in that game and I would have been annoyed as feck if it had come back to haunt us.

 

A decision in the first minute should be exactly the same as a decision in the 21st, 31st, 41st etc.

 

Ref that day? - McCurry.

[Shaggy2]

Was it not Bobby Glennie,as he told me it was him,,,while laughing like ****!

 

I thought it was George McGeachie but it could have been Glennie.

 

Definitely wasn't Hendry. He did play that day but I'm pretty sure he was a striker back then???

[interista]

Was it not Bobby Glennie,as he told me it was him,,,while laughing like ****!

 

I always thought it was defender Jim Smith. Maybe, the memory's going

[cookieboy]

I thought it was George McGeachie but it could have been Glennie.

 

Definitely wasn't Hendry. He did play that day but I'm pretty sure he was a striker back then???

 

definitely was Hendry:p

[Shaggy2]

definitely was Hendry:p

 

Betcha anything it wasn't. The guy had short hair and a 'tache.

 

I'm not 100% sure who it was but I am 100% it wasn't Big Braveheart!

[rudi]

Betcha anything it wasn't. The guy had short hair and a 'tache.

 

I'm not 100% sure who it was but I am 100% it wasn't Big Braveheart!

 

How goes it "ole man Volvo driver" you going to games day on saturday to defend your crown.

[Big D]

Betcha anything it wasn't. The guy had short hair and a 'tache.

 

I'm not 100% sure who it was but I am 100% it wasn't Big Braveheart!

 

It's on the Back from the Brink video. It was that Munster faced albino Hendry alright.