Football as a whole...

[tommythejambo]

Is there any point anymore?

 

I think the wee team, the bigots and ourselves have got very lucky this season, in that we all might be challenging for a title.

 

But IMO the game is finished. There's only 1 team that will EVER win the SPL, 2/3 capable of winning the premiership, 3/4 capable of winning the champions league.

 

Is it maybe just time to give up?

 

No one can afford to really challenge anymore.

 

For example, Hearts winning the Scottish cup is the greatest honour we will EVER see the club win. There's no room for progression.

[JamboGraham]

Looking forward to the new season I see Tommy...!!!!

 

 

[Sepp's Bladder]

I have never seen a hearts team that I truly believed would win the league and to be honest think that 12,000 ST contradict your outlook.

 

for me football is and always has been about more than just challenging for a title. I've always been grateful to my dad for taking me when young and i hope my kids will be too!

 

plus, things change constantly... tables will turn again before we are dead (I hope!!!)

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

There's only 1 team that will EVER win the SPL

Incorrect.

[tommythejambo]

I have never seen a hearts team that I truly believed would win the league and to be honest think that 12,000 ST contradict your outlook.

 

for me football is and always has been about more than just challenging for a title. I've always been grateful to my dad for taking me when young and i hope my kids will be too!

 

plus, things change constantly... tables will turn again before we are dead (I hope!!!)

 

I want that to be true, but I can't see it happening.

 

The big teams have too much money for us to even think about it.

 

Put it this way, David Luiz is worth 20 HMFC's.

[Sepp's Bladder]

 

Put it this way, David Luiz is worth 20 HMFC's.

 

20 Times our CVA. Not hearts.

[Sharpie]

There is no doubt money talks in football. Having said that it is not beyond realms of possibility that a team will make signings, and with a combination of good luck and good judgement the players signed gel. Buying teams works sometimes but not always, once in a whole a group come together and the parts all fit, they become winners. No reason to believe that it will not be Hearts if and when it happens.

[DesertDawg]

It's changing as you write. Whoever expected the "Romanov Revolution?".....for better or worse. Whoever thought that Manchester City would be champions again....twice? Whoever thought that Hearts, Hibs and Rangers would play in the Championship (second division) the same season? You just never know.

[Sepp's Bladder]

It's changing as you write. Whoever expected the "Romanov Revolution?".....for better or worse. Whoever thought that Manchester City would be champions again....twice? Whoever thought that Hearts, Hibs and Rangers would play in the Championship (second division) the same season? You just never know.

 

Exactly and is what makes it so enjoyable for me. Unpredictable pn and off the pitch. I'm sure Liverpool fans felt the lost cause approach for a long time... just have to see where the ride takes us!

[GJamboR7]

There is no doubt money talks in football. Having said that it is not beyond realms of possibility that a team will make signings, and with a combination of good luck and good judgement the players signed gel. Buying teams works sometimes but not always, once in a whole a group come together and the parts all fit, they become winners. No reason to believe that it will not be Hearts if and when it happens.

 

Athletico Madrid being a good example last season. Average players brought together with a good manager, passionate support and a lucky run and they've beaten 2 of the biggest spenders in football

[Watt-Zeefuik]

I firmly maintain my belief that if Hearts are well run in terms of budget, organization, player scouting an academy, and if Hearts fans are willing to continue the FoH contributions past the point at which we own the club, Hearts will win the SPL/SPFLP/whatever at least once in the next 20-25 years. We'll never be the size of Celtic or Rangers, but I don't believe Scottish football will always be the OF on one hand and everyone else on the other.

[BonnyriggSectionG]

Money is the only thing that matters nowadays.

 

UEFA, FIFA and all individual football governing bodies will try to keep the 'big teams' with the most money at the top and let the other teams suffer as long as they keep winning.

 

Nothing will change now particularly in Scotland. We missed our opportunity and are destined to go back to the way it was in the next 5 years.

[Alan Johnson]

It's changing as you write. Whoever expected the "Romanov Revolution?".....for better or worse. Whoever thought that Manchester City would be champions again....twice? Whoever thought that Hearts, Hibs and Rangers would play in the Championship (second division) the same season? You just never know.

 

Every one of the things you've mentioned (except arguably Hibs getting relegated) is entirely based on money. That's pretty much all the game is now.

 

Sent from my GT-I9195 using Tapatalk 2

[A Boy Named Crow]

I've been saying for a while now that the whole thing has to go go bust. What fans want is a game where making money isn't the key driver, but rather sporting integrity is. As long as there is money to be made from the game it will be ruined by moronic chairmen, inept clowns like Regan and Doncaster, and bled dry by the corrupt bastatds at FIFA.

 

While this goes on, the rich will get richer (see Champions League) and the poor will never compete. If there was some kind of financial meltdown in the game there would be casualties, teams would fold etc, but in the long term it's the only way football can ever be returned to the fans.

 

How do we make this happen? Not a scoobie!

[Snake Plissken]

I want to believe that Hearts will win the SPFL in my lifetime.

 

But watching us rebuild into a force once more will be far more rewarding than whatever lukewarm thrill plastic fans of the biggest clubs might feel when their team of millionaires beats another team of millionaires.

[Gershwin]

We'd need Sky and BT to go bust.

[letsalldothebeattie]

For me it's not how much clubs spend on players. For me it's about 1 thing and that's supporting Heart Of Midlothian Football Club! Home and Away in the Scottish Premiership or the Championship. In the Scottish Cup or the Petrofac Training Cup. Players come and go. Money gets higher and higher in football but Hearts stay constant throughout. Obviously if we win trophies it's great but it's not the end of the world if we don't. Just as long as we beat Hibs constantly

 

 

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[A Boy Named Crow]

We'd need Sky and BT to go bust.

 

Yup, I had high hopes for that case a year or two back where the pub took on Sky to be able to show Polish channels. Nothing seems to have come if it though.

[Paolo]

Yup, I had high hopes for that case a year or two back where the pub took on Sky to be able to show Polish channels. Nothing seems to have come if it though.

 

I could be wrong, but I do not think it is clear cut yet, as it was a prelimanary hearing, but did rule in the landlady's favour.

 

When it comes down to it, I suspect SKY and BT will win, personally. I am not sure either way if they should, but I think they will, probably due to copyright, or Intellectual Property laws, or something similar.

 

The English Premiership may also argue that it (the broadcasting of it) is their product (again perhaps copyright or Intellectual Property) and that they can decides who they authorise to 'sell' it in the UK, just like any other company can with their products. So if they want to give exclusive rights to one or two companies, then they can.

[h-e-a-r-t-s]

We'd need Sky and BT to go bust.

 

There are other enormous companies waiting in the wings to bid against sky and BT when the time is right (Google being one of them believe it or not) so the collapse of sky wouldn't change anything.

 

I think football needs to adopt a US model that promotes competition above all else. For example the college system that allows the bottom clubs to pick the best players to even things up. I also think proper and enforced fair play rules would help to stop wealthy sheiks spending billions to buy success.

 

Sport needs a level playing field to keep things interesting. Can't blame the likes of sky though IMO, they exist because the consumer is happy to shell out ?70 per month for a subscription to watch 6 prem games every weekend. I couldn't imagine anything more boring tbh.

[Five to One]

See Man City mentioned here. Don't want to belittle anyone winning a championship, but also fail to see how throwing money at a team in order to guarantee success is any sort of achievement. I'm actually glad there are now sensible constraints on Hearts that necessitate producing good young players mixed with one or two astute signings. It should be the norm for all teams.

 

 

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[ToYouToMe]

For me it's not how much clubs spend on players. For me it's about 1 thing and that's supporting Heart Of Midlothian Football Club! Home and Away in the Scottish Premiership or the Championship. In the Scottish Cup or the Petrofac Training Cup. Players come and go. Money gets higher and higher in football but Hearts stay constant throughout. Obviously if we win trophies it's great but it's not the end of the world if we don't. Just as long as we beat Hibs constantly

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

That mentality is what keeps us subservient.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk

 

 

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I enjoy the challenge. Winning a cup is an amazing feeling, and our occasional title challenges feel great too. European games?

 

What a depressing thread.

[h-e-a-r-t-s]

 

 

That mentality is what keeps us subservient.

 

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By the way I wouldn't necessarily call it subservience, I genuinely believe the fans of clubs like hearts can get more satisfaction from winning a cup than the like is utd, city or Chelsea can get from winning the Prem or Europa league for example. It's all about how high your bar is and how close you get to jumping over it.

[Tazio]

We might win the league in a few years if the Levein ethos works. Or Aberdeen or Dundee Utd may produce a team that can do it.

 

What I can guarantee though is that if it happens Celtic will just spend big as soon as it happens and buy it back.

[Debut 4]

For me it's not how much clubs spend on players. For me it's about 1 thing and that's supporting Heart Of Midlothian Football Club! Home and Away in the Scottish Premiership or the Championship. In the Scottish Cup or the Petrofac Training Cup. Players come and go. Money gets higher and higher in football but Hearts stay constant throughout. Obviously if we win trophies it's great but it's not the end of the world if we don't. Just as long as we beat Hibs constantly

 

 

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i know your post is about being upbeat mate but if I can pick a hole in it then Hearts shouldn't just be about "as long as we beat Hibs"....

 

The endless battle for Hearts , the main aim and target should be to become regular trophy winners.

 

Beating H1b5 is important as it's a big part of our history but shouldn't be the be all and end all for our club.

 

 

[eduardo.j]

If I belived only Celtic could win the spl I wouldn't be going to matches,football is about enjoying the beautiful days were upsets happen try asking a st Johnston fan "what's the point?" Right now or how about any Seville fans who went 64 years with nothing! Before winning 2 ueffa cups and playing in the cl or maybe swansea fans who were at the league cup final....do I need to give more examples?

[Barney Rubble]

Football has found a new level , just about at the WWF mark , all becoming a bit too razzmatazzy imo ! we could do with breaking away from the " old firm " if there is such a thing now , but money talks!

[skinnybob72]

As long as you can accept you're watching a different sport when tuning into the CL you should be ok.

[Nookie Bear]

See Man City mentioned here. Don't want to belittle anyone winning a championship, but also fail to see how throwing money at a team in order to guarantee success is any sort of achievement. I'm actually glad there are now sensible constraints on Hearts that necessitate producing good young players mixed with one or two astute signings. It should be the norm for all teams.

 

 

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Man City, PSG and Monaco are the new breed of money teams that make me hate football. At least clubs like Man Utd, Barcelona, Real Madrid, MIlan etc have a genuine pedigree (I would say that even celtic have a greater pedigree than Man City) and a tradition to build on whereas these 'new' powers are just like chavvy lottery winners.

[Ribble]

Sorry but don't buy this whole money is ruining football, it's been the same for over a hundred years where the teams with the most money buy the best players and have the biggest chance of winning. Professional football or in fact professional sport in general is by it's very nature money driven!

[Feeno]

Its a soap opera now, I ******* hate the 24hrs rolling news, mountain out of mole hill shite ye get from Sky or the negativity from newspapers. I hate build ups, I hate half time, I hate post match analysis, I hate transfer stories, I hate pundits, I hate bias for the big teams and snobbery towards the wee teams, I hate that fans clamour for the moral high ground, I hate that football fans are quicker to protest about a bad run of results rather than a tax increase. I hate the corruption. I hate the lack of competition and the strangle hold bigger clubs have. I hate idiots giving you their opinion on matters that you know has been lifted word, for word from the Sun

 

 

I love the 90 minutes of football, the rest can suck my dick.

[Fort Vallance]

Is there any point anymore?

 

I think the wee team, the bigots and ourselves have got very lucky this season, in that we all might be challenging for a title.

 

But IMO the game is finished. There's only 1 team that will EVER win the SPL, 2/3 capable of winning the premiership, 3/4 capable of winning the champions league.

 

Is it maybe just time to give up?

 

No one can afford to really challenge anymore.

 

For example, Hearts winning the Scottish cup is the greatest honour we will EVER see the club win. There's no room for progression.

So everything we've gone through in last 18 months has been pointless ? 19/05.12 was pointless. Sorry but I can't agree.

[Nookie Bear]

Its a soap opera now, I ******* hate the 24hrs rolling news, mountain out of mole hill shite ye get from Sky or the negativity from newspapers. I hate build ups, I hate half time, I hate post match analysis, I hate transfer stories, I hate pundits, I hate bias for the big teams and snobbery towards the wee teams, I hate that fans clamour for the moral high ground, I hate that football fans are quicker to protest about a bad run of results rather than a tax increase. I hate the corruption. I hate the lack of competition and the strangle hold bigger clubs have. I hate idiots giving you their opinion on matters that you know has been lifted word, for word from the Sun

 

 

I love the 90 minutes of football, the rest can suck my dick.

 

Bravo, Sir!

 

I maintain that, if the referee at a Scottish game walks onto the pitch and removes the match ball from a plastic stand, I'll walk out there and then.

[Five to One]

Sorry but don't buy this whole money is ruining football, it's been the same for over a hundred years where the teams with the most money buy the best players and have the biggest chance of winning. Professional football or in fact professional sport in general is by it's very nature money driven!

 

Total drivel. Wasn't money that won Notts Forrest the European Cup. No way that could be done now without a wave of oversees investment as with Chelsea and Man City. You need to spend more than you earn and that is wrong.

 

Money is a part of professional sport no doubt, but it should also be about creating a level playing field for teams to compete and nurture young talent. UEFA just pretend to do anything about it while protecting the 'big teams'.

 

 

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[fabienleclerq]

I hate to say it as I hate American sports but we could learn a thing or two from their competitions.

 

Ffp doesn't cut it atm, the leagues need a fairer split of money and salary caps. The champions league money should be spread to increase competition not given to the wealthiest clubs to become wealthier.

 

Delia or whatever his name his was complaining about competition? Stop strangling it and help them then. I'd drop the "champions"group stages too, they're just a safety net and cash cow for the big guns. Celtic have hardly any chance in groups with city and Barca, but over two legs they could upset them.

And let's have a proper "champions" league, ironically we used to and called it the European cup. We should swap the name back.

[Stupid Sexy Flanders]

I reckon at some point the Champions League teams will break away from their domestic leagues & just play each other every week. FIFA/UEFA care about money & absolutely nothing else. Until the governing bodies start taking an interest in fair competition rather than advertising & viewing figures, it's not going to get better.

 

The increasing number of people who now "support" Man City/United/Chelsea/Arsenal rather than a Scottish team is absolutely depressing.

[tynie chris]

 

 

 

I want that to be true, but I can't see it happening.

 

The big teams have too much money for us to even think about it.

 

Put it this way, David Luiz is worth 20 HMFC's.

 

But in reality, for a Brazil internationalist, he`s pants.

[Jammy T]

Unlike what the SFA will tell you or whatever the feck they are now - best thing for Scottish football would be for Celtic and rangers to feck off somewhere.

 

That said, as Celtic weaken due to a weak rangers I see a very very small chance that Hearts - if the current plan and model works - might just surprise to the upside and challenge for the league in the next 5 years

 

If we could challenge in 98 with Rangers near their peak we can do it again now.

 

I genuinely believe that

[Thomaso]

 

Is there any point anymore?

 

I think the wee team, the bigots and ourselves have got very lucky this season, in that we all might be challenging for a title.

 

But IMO the game is finished. There's only 1 team that will EVER win the SPL, 2/3 capable of winning the premiership, 3/4 capable of winning the champions league.

 

Is it maybe just time to give up?

 

No one can afford to really challenge anymore.

 

For example, Hearts winning the Scottish cup is the greatest honour we will EVER see the club win. There's no room for progression.

 

 

Do you think that 8,000 Hearts fans are pumping ?1.5m per year in DD to the Club because they think they will win the SPL one day?

 

Don't think so - it is because HMFC is in their blood. I have supported Hearts since boyhood. I left Tynie in tears in '65 after the Killie game - apart from a one off season in '86 that was our last REAL chance to win the league. "Time to give up"??? No way.

 

 

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

I reckon at some point the Champions League teams will break away from their domestic leagues & just play each other every week. FIFA/UEFA care about money & absolutely nothing else. Until the governing bodies start taking an interest in fair competition rather than advertising & viewing figures, it's not going to get better.

 

The increasing number of people who now "support" Man City/United/Chelsea/Arsenal rather than a Scottish team is absolutely depressing.

 

One man, one club.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Unlike what the SFA will tell you or whatever the feck they are now - best thing for Scottish football would be for Celtic and rangers to feck off somewhere.

 

That said, as Celtic weaken due to a weak rangers I see a very very small chance that Hearts - if the current plan and model works - might just surprise to the upside and challenge for the league in the next 5 years

 

If we could challenge in 98 with Rangers near their peak we can do it again now.

 

I genuinely believe that

 

If Celtic and Rangers **** off elsewhere where there is more cash and stature, then we wouldn't even pick up any decent youngsters anymore. Scottish football would be their feeder team. Their fan bases would multiply massively and everyone else's would decrease accordingly.

 

If they want to up sticks completely and take their stadia elsewhere then fair enough.

 

Our product would be devalued in the eyes of advertisers and TV, and we would suffer by having to scale back even further.

 

I don't want them to leave, unless it's a complete flit, bricks annaw.

[Thomaso]

 

 

If Celtic and Rangers **** off elsewhere where there is more cash and stature, then we wouldn't even pick up any decent youngsters anymore. Scottish football would be their feeder team. Their fan bases would multiply massively and everyone else's would decrease accordingly.

 

If they want to up sticks completely and take their stadia elsewhere then fair enough.

 

Our product would be devalued in the eyes of advertisers and TV, and we would suffer by having to scale back even further.

 

I don't want them to leave, unless it's a complete flit, bricks annaw.

 

I don't think there would be much change in the fan bases of Scottish Clubs including the Ugly Sisters.

 

They already have the fans from all parts of Scotland following the OF for bigoted reasons or just plain glory hunting. If they went to the EPL they would no longer regularly win trophies and the Glory hunters will lose interest. Also remember that thousands in Scotland detest the OF for their bigotry and will never follow them.

 

As for the other Scottish Clubs like Hearts, we certainly do not follow our team because we win loads of trophies. The vast majority of our fan base are Hearts fans because they were brought up as hearts fans - same goes for Hibs, Killie,etc. I do not see that changing if the OF depart.

 

Without the OF there would be a much more exciting league that will still attract TV and Scottish sponsorship interest.

[neave]

If it wasn't for Hearts I'd have given up on mainstream football years ago. Sterilised, modernised, commercialised pish.

 

The bubble will burst soon enough, but pretty much everything about modern football turns my stomach nowadays. Hearts are, of course, included in this to an extent, but you can't bite your nose off when Heart of Midlothian runs so deep in your psyche.

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

 

 

I don't think there would be much change in the fan bases of Scottish Clubs including the Ugly Sisters.

 

They already have the fans from all parts of Scotland following the OF for bigoted reasons or just plain glory hunting. If they went to the EPL they would no longer regularly win trophies and the Glory hunters will lose interest. Also remember that thousands in Scotland detest the OF for their bigotry and will never follow them.

 

As for the other Scottish Clubs like Hearts, we certainly do not follow our team because we win loads of trophies. The vast majority of our fan base are Hearts fans because they were brought up as hearts fans - same goes for Hibs, Killie,etc. I do not see that changing if the OF depart.

 

Without the OF there would be a much more exciting league that will still attract TV and Scottish sponsorship interest.

 

I don't really agree, but you might be right.

 

The way I see it is; there are already a growing number of EPL 'supporters' in this country who watch their team on the telly and buy their merchandise. Look at Liverpool, they have loads of Scottish fans despite not sweeping all before them these days. Celtic in the SKY Premiership would become enormous, and they would Hoover up anyone decent players from Scotland. No OF here would see the paltry TV and sponsorship shrivel to nothing, and cuts would need to be made in places like academies, reserve leagues and the like.

 

The OF would build academies and centres all over Scotland and burn through every available Scottish player like fire through a hay field.

 

We would become even more of a backwater in no time. All imo.

[Paolo]

 

 

There are other enormous companies waiting in the wings to bid against sky and BT when the time is right (Google being one of them believe it or not) so the collapse of sky wouldn't change anything.

 

I think football needs to adopt a US model that promotes competition above all else. For example the college system that allows the bottom clubs to pick the best players to even things up. I also think proper and enforced fair play rules would help to stop wealthy sheiks spending billions to buy success.

 

Sport needs a level playing field to keep things interesting. Can't blame the likes of sky though IMO, they exist because the consumer is happy to shell out ?70 per month for a subscription to watch 6 prem games every weekend. I couldn't imagine anything more boring tbh.

 

You are right. SKY going bust will make no difference, and I dot fully understand the disdain that peoe have for them.

 

SKY only exist because people are willing to pay the premium and expensive prices they demand (I am talking about residential customers mainly), and the clubs their customers want to watch, are happy to do business with them. The only way you will see a difference is if customers turn away and stop paying. That won't happen though, so SKY, BT or whoever else, will continue.

 

I don't have SKY myself, so if there is a game I am particularly bothered about, and I am not at the game, so maybe Hearts away, or another game, I would rather give the money to one of my local pubs, and watch it there. It works out so much cheaper for me.

[rossthejambo]

I'm struggling to think of any time in the last 10-15 years where the situation in Scotland has ever really been any different, the SPL has been won by Celtic/Rangers for as long as I've been alive.

[Don Draper]

Total drivel. Wasn't money that won Notts Forrest the European Cup. No way that could be done now without a wave of oversees investment as with Chelsea and Man City. You need to spend more than you earn and that is wrong.

 

Money is a part of professional sport no doubt, but it should also be about creating a level playing field for teams to compete and nurture young talent. UEFA just pretend to do anything about it while protecting the 'big teams'.

 

 

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Before my time, but didn't that Forest team include England's first million-pound player? Not trying to be arsey; just think Ribble has a point. Football has, to some extent, always been about money.

 

It's cyclical - clubs like Hearts pop up every now and again and challenge the big boys. In my lifetime, we could have won the league in '86, '98 and maybe even in '06. And I believe we'll have a go at it again over the next few years. And occasionally, as teams like Montpellier and Atletico have shown recently, if you get the right team together, you can fry even bigger fish than Celtic and Rangers.

[kingantti1874]

If it wasn't for Hearts I'd have given up on mainstream football years ago. Sterilised, modernised, commercialised pish.

 

The bubble will burst soon enough, but pretty much everything about modern football turns my stomach nowadays. Hearts are, of course, included in this to an extent, but you can't bite your nose off when Heart of Midlothian runs so deep in your psyche.

 

The first paragraph is bang on the money, the second : it won't burst, the top clubs and leagues are multi billion dollar business these days.

[Del1812]

It goes back to what was said on the "Will you watch the SPL" thread. Fans are spoiled by all the football available and people just end up watching the biggest games between the biggest teams, even though we've seen them so many times. The Champions League group stages is the best example of this. Everyone complains about it being the same teams all the time but TV listings are hardly plummeting.

 

In my opinion it's going to turn into franchise football; the UEFA Super League where 64 teams from across the continent play a regular season and then playoffs to decide the winner. Like the Champions League right now but that's all the games they'll play. The rest of the leagues will still exist, and most will be professional, but there will be the proverbial ceiling that all these teams just bang their heads off constantly.

 

I'm not saying this will happen now, or it'll happen in 20 years, but in my lifetime I expect this will happen.

 

Either that or all these rich sides will realise that their dominance is hurting the sport and spread the wealth around...