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What can Scotland learn from World Cup 2014


Jamboy81

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Living abroad I often get asked about Scottish football and, generally, why we are so bad at a sport which is by far our national #1. I often manage to squeeze in a "well, we used to be good.." and then I start to wonder what are the major differences between now and not so long ago when we were producing quality of likes of Gemmill, Souness, Dalglish and Law.

 

Watching some of the nations at the world cup I see nations with small populations like Uruguay, Costa Rica, Belgium, and Switzerland and thinking about other countries who haven't made it this time but generally have decent sides like Sweden and Denmark, who have similar economies and climates too. It just seems other teams usually manage to produce 1 or 2 real stars every now and again while we can generally only produce a team of good honest pros.

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Hagar the Horrible

Become part of Team GB, Costa Rica have the same populous as us, and we just wont have a team as good as they have put out, If you cant compete don't waste anybody's time nor money, find a new game we are good at

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Bindy Badgy

Pointing to our small population size is a waste of time. Other small nations manage to produce good team.

We're too insular. Scott Brown could have gone down to England and tested himself against a much higher standard of opposition. Instead he chose to play for Celtic and only test himself in European games.

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Simple - All starts at grass roots - better facilities, fully qualified coaches, more dedication, more funding, etc etc blah blah blah. Use of the immigration system!!! EG Germany with Turkish imports, Belgium with North African imports. There must be more Scottish Grannies oot there somewhere hiding away talent!!!

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ArcticJambo

That no matter how alike the Scotland top i to France's we will never be as good, at a WC or otherwise. Just seen the top. Don't like it.

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chester copperpot

The coaching in this country for youth players is nothing short of a disgrace. I have had the 'pleasure' of working with grass roots coaches who are licenced up to the hilt, yet trying to get them to adopt more continental methods is neigh on impossible!

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doctor jambo

Stop coaching completely

It strangles the natural talent

It also allows others to select who to succeed and who to scrap- ie pick the tall athletic at the expense of the small skillful

The more coaching we do the worse we get

Let the kids develop naturally and go with their instincts- take people on, show boat and chase about

All this academy stuff too- costs more to run an academy than to merely sign the players from lower division teams like we used to

Meh

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Some thought provoking responses here. The main thought being 'greater restrictions on Internet access are necessary'

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Templeton Peck

Stop looking over the garden fence and basing your set up on another countries. Are the SFA currently copying the Dutch/German/Spanish/French?

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Pick a way of playing to suit you, stick with it, and develop players to fit it.

 

Costa Rica,the big surprise of the World Cup, aren't reinventing the wheel. It's a tight back line of 5 with 2 midfielders and 3 deep attackers who put in a lot of work. Or Greece, who got out their group with nicking a goal and holding into the lead. Doesn't have to be in the Dutch style or be as functional as Germany. Just play to your strengths. It's what the USA, Costa Rica and Greece have done. And Colombia.

 

The league should encourage more young players being played, especially from the Old firm who have the scope to develop players with their facilities and "better" coaches, to get game time to help produce a deeper pool to pick from.

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Don't fear any team. Self belief and getting players in Europes top leagues, eg Germany, Spain

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Stop looking over the garden fence and basing your set up on another countries. Are the SFA currently copying the Dutch/German/Spanish/French?

Should have been doing this years ago. Don't think Dutch kids play competitive football until they are in their teens, by that time they have a good grounding on the tactics and skill needed to become a good footballer.
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Alan Johnson
The coaching in this country for youth players is nothing short of a disgrace. I have had the 'pleasure' of working with grass roots coaches who are licenced up to the hilt, yet trying to get them to adopt more continental methods is neigh on impossible!

 

Yeah, some of the coaches are pony....

 

Sent from my GT-P3110 using Tapatalk 2

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Pick a way of playing to suit you, stick with it, and develop players to fit it.

This. It's what CL want's to do at Hearts and what WGS would like to do with Scotland. We've seen big improvements in Scotland performances since WGS took over, players holding onto the ball and trying to pass from front to back.

 

The key is to instigate the chosen style throughout the game, which is what Belgium set out to do, and also Germany. England will never be able to do this as long as the EPL dominates the game. Scotland could have a chance though, most clubs rely on bringing through home grown talent, rather than buy ready made from abroad. So the fact that we don't have the money available to the EPL might work in our favour, if the majority of clubs are prepared to buy into a blueprint.

 

Most Scottish players still see it as an honour to play for their country, it's only really at Celtic or Rangers (especially Rangers) that playing for Scotland might be seen as an unnecessary distraction.

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It does seem to be a statistical imbalance that in over 20 years we haven't produced one great player. Craig Gordon my just have proved the exception to that.

 

Prior to that we probably had more than our fair share and as a result we qualified for World Cups.

 

Has there been a law passed which says that all players born in Scotland have to be ordinary.

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It does seem to be a statistical imbalance that in over 20 years we haven't produced one great player. Craig Gordon my just have proved the exception to that.

Funny thing is that when I started out watching Scotland, the old joke was about the Scottish goalie being so poor. In the last 30 years, that seems to be one position we consistently excel in - Leighton and Goram were both top class in their prime, you rightly mention Gordon, but McGregor and Marshall were both excellent for their clubs in the EPL last season. Imagine Gordon had stayed injury free and we had those 3 at our disposal. It would be typical Scotland, we'd have 3 outstanding players all competing for the one position!

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Simple - All starts at grass roots - better facilities, fully qualified coaches, more dedication, more funding, etc etc blah blah blah. Use of the immigration system!!! EG Germany with Turkish imports, Belgium with North African imports. There must be more Scottish Grannies oot there somewhere hiding away talent!!!

 

Id rather have Scots play for us tbh, dont like the ruling behind players grans defining who they can play for

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Id rather have Scots play for us tbh, dont like the ruling behind players grans defining who they can play for

In an ideal world I would agree. But it always galls me when I hear Ray Houghton talking in his Glaswegian brogue knowing that we missed out on him because big Jack used the rules to full advantage for ROI.

 

I would like to see it restricted to parents only, which is fair enough, but if grandparents are allowed then we should make the most of this. I'm against the idea of assimilation, where a 'foreign' player can suddenly be adopted by a country because he's played there for so many years. Hence we have a Brazilian playing for Croatia. Am I right in thinking Januzaj at Man U had a choice of 5 countries to play for, before opting for Belguim? That shows how crazy the rules are.

 

However, if it's good enough for Germany who have a massive pool of home grown players to choose from and still have to rely on assimilated players like Klose, Podolski and Ozil, then it sure is good enough for Scotland.

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Our Rugby team try to take advantage of the situation. Most of them have southern hemisphere accents, however, not the most gifted bunch we could chose!!!. I hear in Belgium that Marc Willmots has demanded that all academies coach the formation he wants his national team to play. Young McCarthy at Everton (Ex Hamilton) is one major FCUK up by our big wigs. What did we not do to convince him Scotland was a better choice? Watch this one come back to bite our erse

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

Our Rugby team try to take advantage of the situation. Most of them have southern hemisphere accents, however, not the most gifted bunch we could chose!!!. I hear in Belgium that Marc Willmots has demanded that all academies coach the formation he wants his national team to play. Young McCarthy at Everton (Ex Hamilton) is one major FCUK up by our big wigs. What did we not do to convince him Scotland was a better choice? Watch this one come back to bite our erse

 

He was overlooked at youth level apparently. There is also the suggestion from some that his Celticness played a part.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

He is going to be a class player as he develops

 

He's already a bit of a favourite. My brother in law is an Everton fan and he is not alone in liking him.

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Everton is a stepping stone to bigger things for the lad. Just hope he never sees one of the Ugly Sisters as a bigger step to stardom

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One thing we need to do is not to give too much respect.

We've seen "smaller" nations take on and defeat bigger nations.

 

Levein in his infamous 4-6-0 is a perfect example of a game where we gave too much respect.

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Guest Bilel Mohsni

Everton is a stepping stone to bigger things for the lad. Just hope he never sees one of the Ugly Sisters as a bigger step to stardom

 

Good players normally step up to the likes of Everton from Rangers or Celtic. Even to smaller teams than Everton.

 

Tugay, Arteta, Stubbs, Reina, Ferguson, Jelavic etc.

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ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 4-6-0 - can we give Levein a break from that. Spain have played that and I don't hear anyone on Del Bosque's case, albeit they are miles above us in skill. Levein's problem IMO was the disrespect you get from Celtic and Rangers players if you have no affiliation with either club. E.G. Vogts, Burley and Levein, rough times in charge, Smith McLeish and Strachan, results!!! And anyone that can say McLeish is a decent manager, is on the bucky

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alwaysthereinspirit

 

Living abroad I often get asked about Scottish football and, generally, why we are so bad at a sport which is by far our national #1. I often manage to squeeze in a "well, we used to be good.." and then I start to wonder what are the major differences between now and not so long ago when we were producing quality of likes of Gemmill, Souness, Dalglish and Law.

 

Watching some of the nations at the world cup I see nations with small populations like Uruguay, Costa Rica, Belgium, and Switzerland and thinking about other countries who haven't made it this time but generally have decent sides like Sweden and Denmark, who have similar economies and climates too. It just seems other teams usually manage to produce 1 or 2 real stars every now and again while we can generally only produce a team of good honest pros.

Watching the play of some of the "smaller" nations has shown us exactly how far we've fallen. We wouldn't stand a chance.

Please don't tell me our world ranking has us looking good for the future.

We are pretty pathetic at bringing through young players unless they're world class OF types (Fleck) Anyone else remember that thread. As long as we continue as a league to cater to only two teams we'll forever be $#!te as a national team.

 

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Watt-Zeefuik

Thought of Scotland when I saw Costa Rica's 5-2-3/3-2-2-3 system. That disciplined offside trap has been absolutely chewing through offenses.

 

You'd need strikers with speed and a good work rate (a.k.a., not Kris Commons, but perhaps Snodgrass and Stevie May in time), and smart, disciplined defenders.

 

Costa Rica, Algeria, Colombia, and Chile have proven that you don't need expensive players drawing paychecks from Champions League knockout regulars to field a strong international team.

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brendan21jambo

I don't think we are as bad as we are made out too be. We have decent players with a host of young talent coming through. I think players moving to somewhere other than England might help. Its reported gauld is being offered ?2m by sporting Lisbon & Tony watt is wanted by zulte in Belgium & gms is wanted by some Bulgarian club that made it to the Europa league last 16. I honestly think we are getting much much better! I also think some people just say we're shite just to prepare ourselves for failure. Im optimistic about these new bunch of kids! May, gauld, Armstrong, Nicholson, king, holt, Paterson, Stanton, watt, Russell, Ryan Fraser, Matthew Fulham at everton, jack grimmer at Everton, jack Harper at Madrid, Kenny Andersen at that Dutch team, jay Fulton, Stefan scougall, Jamie Murphy, Andrew Robertson & even more!

 

Lets not forget we have players reaching their peak like Snodgrass, Marshall, McGregor, Anya, Bryson , McCormack, mulgrew...

 

Lets be optimistic for a change instead of being so negative.

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dunciboyjambo

I think its a mixture of many factors, I seen a lot of boys I was at school with regularly playing with Scotland school boys then making the step up and being scouted and training with top Scottish teams but by the time they were 17/18 they were more interested in chasing skirt, drinking, smoking and fitting in with the crowd rather than the football. Couple that with the small population and it rules out a high percentage of the "potentials".. I can only think of one player from my area that went on to play first division football, the rest all either play junior or amateur now and I reckon if they had really stuck at it at least 4/5 of them could have been playing with a top Scottish side.

 

Also the culture in this country (for the players that actually do make it), is to act big time charlies, out in the town at weekends, drinking, partaking in substances and heavy gambling.. I dont think we need to look far across the city to a few players that could have done a lot more in the careers if it had not been for the above.. Obviously there are exceptions to this, not all players do this but a large majority of them do...

 

I'm not saying this is everything that is wrong with the game in this county as I have not been involved or seen how the kids are coached these days but when you look at the likes of Bale, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar - Do you think these guys would have been out drinking, smoking etc when they were on the brink of making it? I doubt it...

 

Also another factor is social media, Playstation, XBox etc... Go back 20 years, its all we did, home from school out with the football for a game of world cuppy... Summer holidays were the same, out all day playing football and only came home for lunch, dinner then bed... A large majority of kids these days dont leave their rooms because of playstations, xbox and catching up on facebook etc... I could guarantee if Scotland put together an 11 a side FIFA 14 team we would be one of the top sides in the world!!

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I think its a mixture of many factors, I seen a lot of boys I was at school with regularly playing with Scotland school boys then making the step up and being scouted and training with top Scottish teams but by the time they were 17/18 they were more interested in chasing skirt, drinking, smoking and fitting in with the crowd rather than the football. Couple that with the small population and it rules out a high percentage of the "potentials".. I can only think of one player from my area that went on to play first division football, the rest all either play junior or amateur now and I reckon if they had really stuck at it at least 4/5 of them could have been playing with a top Scottish side.

 

Also the culture in this country (for the players that actually do make it), is to act big time charlies, out in the town at weekends, drinking, partaking in substances and heavy gambling.. I dont think we need to look far across the city to a few players that could have done a lot more in the careers if it had not been for the above.. Obviously there are exceptions to this, not all players do this but a large majority of them do...

 

I'm not saying this is everything that is wrong with the game in this county as I have not been involved or seen how the kids are coached these days but when you look at the likes of Bale, Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar - Do you think these guys would have been out drinking, smoking etc when they were on the brink of making it? I doubt it...

 

Also another factor is social media, Playstation, XBox etc... Go back 20 years, its all we did, home from school out with the football for a game of world cuppy... Summer holidays were the same, out all day playing football and only came home for lunch, dinner then bed... A large majority of kids these days dont leave their rooms because of playstations, xbox and catching up on facebook etc... I could guarantee if Scotland put together an 11 a side FIFA 14 team we would be one of the top sides in the world!!

We live in 2014 so forget the past, the memories which in fact do not always reflect what truly happened.

 

The majority of young players today who want to play professional football do work hard and try to reach the top. They do try to improve and are willing to sacrifice to make it.

You need talent, drive, coaching and facilities......Scotland lagged behind in facilities but is catching up (but could do so more quickly), it lagged behind in the coaching set up but it is being addressed..........the talent and drive are more often the result of natural ability...... parents/upbringing can help this though so their input is also important....even in simple things like diet and chauffeur duties !!

Weather is not in our favour also so facilities are vital

We live in a developed nation so those natural factors that used to help develop our best players such as playing in the street or in the park with few distractions have gone and in terms of society we live in a better place. We need to work hard to attract the young players at primary school and keep their interest alive through the teenage years...........they have a far greater degree of choice than many of us had years ago so football has to fight for its share of the talent as it is more widely spread throughout the sporting world and in a small nation that limits the talent base for football.

 

Some countries still have that wider natural talent base as their society has not developed as quickly as ours, many of their young do not have the 'distractions' our young people face though that will come in time. In the meantime we have to use the advantages we have in terms of facilities, coaching, medical back up........the footballing authorities job is to make sure the factors within its control are the best they can be and available for all of the talent we have. The finance needs to be there to help those who need it also.....simple things like bus fares/travel to the facilities can mean a lot to many of the parents of those talented kids.

 

Of course there is no quick fix but what needs to be done is to make available the infrastructure, help those who need it along the way and whether we like it or not hope that the development follows.....talent seems to come in cycles and maybe we are due a few talented youngsters in the next 10 years.

Take away the excuses and we will be left with the talented who are determined to 'make it'.

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ZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz 4-6-0 - can we give Levein a break from that. Spain have played that and I don't hear anyone on Del Bosque's case, albeit they are miles above us in skill. Levein's problem IMO was the disrespect you get from Celtic and Rangers players if you have no affiliation with either club. E.G. Vogts, Burley and Levein, rough times in charge, Smith McLeish and Strachan, results!!! And anyone that can say McLeish is a decent manager, is on the bucky

I'm one of Levein's biggest fans but he gave too much respect to an average Czech team.

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Seymour M Hersh

Getting the basics skills taught correctly at an early age (6-9). Our standard of living in comparison to a lot of others may not create as many youngsters with the burning desire and drive to get themselves out of poverty and I'm not sure how, if indeed you can, install that sort of near desperation to succeed in someone. But at least if we can coach the basics and have our youngsters the technical equals of our competitors the fitness and tactical nous can imo be trained and coached into them.

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It still irritates me that Wales have had two absolutely class players in recent years, and Scotland have had none.

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When trumpets with "coaching badges" who run youth sides stop thinking that winning an Under 11 trophy is an achievement and realise it should be about developing players for the greater good, then our game might just improve.

 

Football is about winning but at a young age it should always be about developing skills and as the years go on you drip feed the importance of winning.

 

Thing is, a winning mentality can be a natural instinct, most young lads have that edge and fighting sprit and its the aspect that needs the least attention at a young age.

 

Until coaches take more pride in nurturing players than anything else it'll continue to be a long road back.

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I've watched 3 documentaries on Andy Murray, Chris Hoy and Sir Steve Redgrave. For Hoy and Redgrave they were both in their mid 30s at the time.

 

I completely appreciate they are different sports, but what these guys put themselves through and the sacrifices they make appear to be like night and day from the Scottish footballer stereotype.

 

Back to the world cup you need to be super fit, hunt defensively in packs, attack at pace and be able to play yourself out of tight spaces with great close control and vision. Simple really.

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quincy adams wagstaff

Italian full backs taste like chicken

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ArcticJambo

When trumpets with "coaching badges" who run youth sides stop thinking that winning an Under 11 trophy is an achievement and realise it should be about developing players for the greater good, then our game might just improve.

 

Football is about winning but at a young age it should always be about developing skills and as the years go on you drip feed the importance of winning.

 

Thing is, a winning mentality can be a natural instinct, most young lads have that edge and fighting sprit and its the aspect that needs the least attention at a young age.

 

Until coaches take more pride in nurturing players than anything else it'll continue to be a long road back.

 

I see this time and time again in our small backyard of the world; year after year. The big centres with their population advantage play a long-ball (we're talking indoor soccer, mind) high energy 'hockey-style' game that inevitably wins almost every time, because mistakes at u14 & u16 happen often. (We have found it extremely difficult to break the mould with our possession-based game.) Anyway, these regional tournament winning players then have typically gone on to form the teams that represent the Territory at the Arctic Winter Games where they get annihilated by the Greenland and Russian teams because all of a sudden they are now paying against teams their equal in physicality and energy but also with one major difference, that being added skill. Basic skills, that have been learned from a young age.

 

Unfortunately we still have a pool of old time coaches in the major centres who seem quite content for the next set of kids to pick up their regional banners and medals and ride the parka-tails of the athletes to the international event every two years with their 'winning formula' to irrespective of whether it is ultimately detrimental to the development of the sport in the Territory as a whole.

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Getting the basics skills taught correctly at an early age (6-9). Our standard of living in comparison to a lot of others may not create as many youngsters with the burning desire and drive to get themselves out of poverty and I'm not sure how, if indeed you can, install that sort of near desperation to succeed in someone. But at least if we can coach the basics and have our youngsters the technical equals of our competitors the fitness and tactical nous can imo be trained and coached into them.

 

Sweden has a similar economy and possibly a worse climate and seem to manage so what is the difference? They might not win the world cup but are always competitive. Holland as well, for a country of only some 15m constantly produce top class footballers. I have thought for a while that Scottish players in general lack basic technique and this tournament has just reinforced that. Watching a south american back 4 pass the ball around is a thing of beauty and like night and day compared to our players and there is something fundamental there.

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I see this time and time again in our small backyard of the world; year after year. The big centres with their population advantage play a long-ball (we're talking indoor soccer, mind) high energy 'hockey-style' game that inevitably wins almost every time, because mistakes at u14 & u16 happen often. (We have found it extremely difficult to break the mould with our possession-based game.) Anyway, these regional tournament winning players then have typically gone on to form the teams that represent the Territory at the Arctic Winter Games where they get annihilated by the Greenland and Russian teams because all of a sudden they are now paying against teams their equal in physicality and energy but also with one major difference, that being added skill. Basic skills, that have been learned from a young age.

 

Unfortunately we still have a pool of old time coaches in the major centres who seem quite content for the next set of kids to pick up their regional banners and medals and ride the parka-tails of the athletes to the international event every two years with their 'winning formula' to irrespective of whether it is ultimately detrimental to the development of the sport in the Territory as a whole.

see, I hate the term "old school coaches". There will always be good and bad throughout the decades and some of the best were "old school".

 

The problem with this country is too many of the wrong ones are in the majority just now.

 

I'm not saying im the best judge but I played under what I regard a very good coach 20 odd years ago at under 18s. He'd actually been at Rangers but came back to Edinburgh to coach.

 

It was all about (coaching)touch, awareness, passing, speed of thought and he also pressed home personal discipline as a person and how we live away from the training field and matchday.

 

Now, 20 odd years on the guy is in his early 50s doing nothing , not through choice, but he became disillusioned with the set up in the country. My point is , too many of these guys are being lost to our game for some reason?

 

I played under many coaches afterwards and to this day I still regard him as head and shoulders above those others. He had the proper vision and methods young players need and apart from his technical coaching he was big on life habits and how you conducted yourself.

 

 

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