Daily Record call on Celtic to share 1914/15 league title with Hearts

[flecktimus]

Leave history as it is.

[Jammy T]

Sorry guys but, although I doubt it will happen, I think it would be good thing.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

No thanks.

This

[Musemic]

No thanks. The time to do it, if they wanted to, was 100 years ago.

[colinmaroon]

Leave history as it is.

 

 

Tell that to academia - the revisionist historians!

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

 

Tell that to academia - the revisionist historians!

How would this fall into that category precisely?

[Guest Bilel Mohsni]

Personally I'd prefer it if The Record just messed off.

[Rattatooi]

First of all, I disagree with this proposal, because as many people have already stated, these gentlemen gave their sacrifice for humanitarian reasons, not to honour a football club. That was just a small by product for which we can also feel pride. Football should have stopped that year and titles should not have existed.

 

If they were to go ahead with this proposal, the subject of Hearts record would become controversial every time it was discussed in future making this sacrifice the talking point for all the wrong reasons.

 

Let history be history and what took place be remembered as it was. We can never change what has taken place - but we can learn..!!!

[ArcticJambo]

I find the idea of those despicable tramps throwing us a retrospective bone utterly repellent.

 

This. And, irrespective of the club involved, had I been a surviving member I wouldn't want a medal for something I didn't win by participating wholly.

[Dallas Green]

No thanks.

[tartofmidlothian]

Pass, some things are more important than football and trivialising this down to a "title" completely misses the point of the sacrifice they gave in my opinion.

 

The league should have been postponed at the time.

 

This.

 

Although it's quite a generous and nicely written piece, to be fair.

[Kalamazoo Jambo]

No thanks.

 

[Barney Rubble]

Personally I'd prefer it if The Record just messed off.

 

this ^^^^

[parisjambo]

The club won far more than a league title when the team volunteered. That history is enough for me.

[DETTY29]

Sorry guys but, although I doubt it will happen, I think it would be good thing.

I'm not so sure however if say Jack Alexander, our own historians e.g. Davy Allan, Celtic historians or if the late great Bob Crampsey was still alive and as an independent view said it wasiable and fitting then I wouldn't be adverse to it.

 

Anything would have to come from Celtic though and it their right either way what to do. Edit - and on the advice of our historians and fans accept / decline.

 

But as has been seen already on this thread it has started a debate - some so unfortunate that I'd rather Ralston had never brought it up.

[colinmaroon]

How would this fall into that category precisely?

 

"LEAVE - HISTORY - AS - IT - IS."

 

Seems simple enough to me but then, I'm not a nitpicker!

[Barney Rubble]

I'm not so sure however if say Jack Alexander, our own historians e.g. Davy Allan, Celtic historians or if the late great Bob Crampsey was still alive and as an independent view said it wasiable and fitting then I wouldn't be adverse to it.

 

Anything would have to come from Celtic though and it their right either way what to do. Edit - and on the advice of our historians and fans accept / decline.

 

But as has been seen already on this thread it has started a debate - some so unfortunate that I'd rather Ralston had never brought it up.

 

which was probably his main motivator rather than right some wrong from history !

[poultry]

Sorry for the rant, feel rather strongly about this. GM

Nothing to apologise for, your are spot on. 100 years to late, No thank you.

[TheMaganator]

No thanks.

[Lord Beni of Gorgie]

Worth a poll. How many believe Celtic would theoretically agree to this. Personally I agree with those who say its an irrelevance to the human tragedy.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

"LEAVE - HISTORY - AS - IT - IS."

 

Seems simple enough to me but then, I'm not a nitpicker!

Right, fine

 

[7628mm]

"LEAVE - HISTORY - AS - IT - IS."

 

Without trying to join yours' and GKs little love in I think the shout out above says it all for me.

[kingantti1874]

Not for me.. Understand the sentiment and it well intentioned but their sacrifice transcends football... The best way for Celtic to honour macraes battalion would be to encourage their fans to respect the silence on or around 11/11

[i wish jj was my dad]

I can't help but think the motivation for the article is to cause controversy and I find that very distasteful.

[jambali]

The most instructive thing about this is the unsavoury views of some who have commented below the article.

 

...but then they are probably victims....

[punkrockcroc]

We don't need their scraps, if Celtic had've offered this gesture 100 years ago then fair enough, but now? Tell them to ram it.

[jambovambo]

Is it possible for something to have a less than zero chance of happening ?

[KilbrideJambo]

Silly, provocative and unnecessary article.

[poultry]

Silly, provocative and unnecessary article.

That's the record for ye.

[Maple Leaf]

Sorry for the rant, feel rather strongly about this. GM

 

Quite right too. All Hearts supporters should feel strongly about the 1914 players, and what happened that year. It's a very important part of our history.

 

As for the suggestion about Celtic retroactively sharing the title, it's a 'No thanks' from me. We should not be re-writing the history books. Scotland in general suffered dreadful losses in the Great War, with about 10% of her adult male population being killed. The SFA should be taking steps this year to recognise all those men, not just the Hearts lads.

[Hearts Heritage]

Celtic used to always send representatives to Haymarket every year. They clearly acknowledged their 'debt' to Hearts in winning the title.

 

Anything done retrospectively seems 'wrong'. The poignancy is because they lost the title .

 

There is a scathing 'opinion' piece from the EEN shortly after Celtic won the league on the lack of players from other clubs signing up. I'll dig it out.

 

Re Celtic players signing up .

 

NB THIS IS STATING THE FACTS RATHER THAN ANY POINTS SCORING

 

no then 'current' 1st team players signed up

 

The famous ex Celtic player who won the VC only played a few games for Celtic and had no association with the Club when he signed up.

 

I'll also dig out the contemporary list of players who had signed up.

 

 

[Gav M]

Celtic used to always send representatives to Haymarket every year. They clearly acknowledged their 'debt' to Hearts in winning the title.

 

Anything done retrospectively seems 'wrong'. The poignancy is because they lost the title .

 

There is a scathing 'opinion' piece from the EEN shortly after Celtic won the league on the lack of players from other clubs signing up. I'll dig it out.

 

Re Celtic players signing up .

 

NB THIS IS STATING THE FACTS RATHER THAN ANY POINTS SCORING

 

no then 'current' 1st team players signed up

 

The famous ex Celtic player who won the VC only played a few games for Celtic and had no association with the Club when he signed up.

 

I'll also dig out the contemporary list of players who had signed up.

That's part of what I was trying to point out in my rant, far more factually put here so thanks for that.

[Sten Guns]

Nah, keep it.

[Pistol1874]

Quite right too. All Hearts supporters should feel strongly about the 1914 players, and what happened that year. It's a very important part of our history.

 

As for the suggestion about Celtic retroactively sharing the title, it's a 'No thanks' from me. We should not be re-writing the history books. Scotland in general suffered dreadful losses in the Great War, with about 10% of her adult male population being killed. The SFA should be taking steps this year to recognise all those men, not just the Hearts lads.

Agree entirely.

[The Mighty Thor]

The way the record has reported on Hearts over the last decade one would have to question what the angle here is. I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw them.

 

On the premise of the article; No thanks, a patronising sop a century later, that in any way enhances the tattered image of that shower of shite, is actually quite offensive.

[Hearts Heritage]

[Hearts Heritage]

[Hearts Heritage]

[westbow]

The poignancy is because they lost the title .

Sums it up for me. Daily Record guy doesn't get it.

[Guest oldcastlerock2012]

 

Agree that this is ugly stirring by the Record and an obvious attempt to generate on ingoing story during the summer slow period. Still that old article is fascinating.

 

Interesting the same discussions are still happening 100 years later, and the old firm still put their own success above everything

[Thunderstruck]

This has nothing to do with any other club. This is part of our Club's history.

 

Players of a bygone era took the decision to enlist en-masse in pursuit of a cause that was, to them, greater than playing football.

 

This football club honours and remembers their decision and the sacrifice that they made. That is right and proper and is an important part of the Club's history - one of the things that defines the Club.

 

Other Clubs can and do pay their respects at appropriate times - that is not mandatory and we should not belittle or demean any other club or its supporters if it/they do not become involved.

 

Equally, supporters of this Club should not use the commitment and sacrifice of former players in a high and mighty, holier than thou attempt at vainglory.

 

This suggestion should be quietly ignored - it has potential to embarrass both Hearts and Celtic and, no matter what our personal views are of other Clubs, it should not be allowed to deflect attention from the very men we should be honouring.

[Hearts Heritage]

This has nothing to do with any other club. This is part of our Club's history.

 

Players of a bygone era took the decision to enlist en-masse in pursuit of a cause that was, to them, greater than playing football.

 

This football club honours and remembers their decision and the sacrifice that they made. That is right and proper and is an important part of the Club's history - one of the things that defines the Club.

 

Other Clubs can and do pay their respects at appropriate times - that is not mandatory and we should not belittle or demean any other club or its supporters if it/they do not become involved.

 

Equally, supporters of this Club should not use the commitment and sacrifice of former players in a high and mighty, holier than thou attempt at vainglory.

 

This suggestion should be quietly ignored - it has potential to embarrass both Hearts and Celtic and, no matter what our personal views are of other Clubs, it should not be allowed to deflect attention from the very men we should be honouring.

 

Absolutely. I have found a small minority of our fans who try and point score about it.

 

Also why I am opposed to any attempt to have another memorial at Tynecastle dedicated to the McCraes however worthy it sounds. Haymarket is the memorial.

 

Article on Celtic players in WWI

 

http://en.wikipedia....and_World_War_I

[hueyview]

This has nothing to do with any other club. This is part of our Club's history.

 

Players of a bygone era took the decision to enlist en-masse in pursuit of a cause that was, to them, greater than playing football.

 

This football club honours and remembers their decision and the sacrifice that they made. That is right and proper and is an important part of the Club's history - one of the things that defines the Club.

 

Other Clubs can and do pay their respects at appropriate times - that is not mandatory and we should not belittle or demean any other club or its supporters if it/they do not become involved.

 

Equally, supporters of this Club should not use the commitment and sacrifice of former players in a high and mighty, holier than thou attempt at vainglory.

 

This suggestion should be quietly ignored - it has potential to embarrass both Hearts and Celtic and, no matter what our personal views are of other Clubs, it should not be allowed to deflect attention from the very men we should be honouring.

Totally agree.

[jamboozy]

have we not got enough problems with thoughtless football fans in this country without the DR coming out with this sort of article? They just lack common decency.

[ivanhoe]

This has nothing to do with any other club. This is part of our Club's history.

 

Players of a bygone era took the decision to enlist en-masse in pursuit of a cause that was, to them, greater than playing football.

 

This football club honours and remembers their decision and the sacrifice that they made. That is right and proper and is an important part of the Club's history - one of the things that defines the Club.

 

Other Clubs can and do pay their respects at appropriate times - that is not mandatory and we should not belittle or demean any other club or its supporters if it/they do not become involved.

 

Equally, supporters of this Club should not use the commitment and sacrifice of former players in a high and mighty, holier than thou attempt at vainglory.

 

This suggestion should be quietly ignored - it has potential to embarrass both Hearts and Celtic and, no matter what our personal views are of other Clubs, it should not be allowed to deflect attention from the very men we should be honouring.

 

 

 

Really good post that sums it up perfectly.

 

If we follow the values shown within it we will have a dignified season.

 

 

[Mister T]

An insult to our intelligence.

[Paolo]

I am afraid that I find it patronising shite.

 

If the Record genuinely believed this, they would campaign for the title to be given to Hearts, not shared.

 

Instead, they choose an option, which does not piss off Celtic too much, whilst appeasing some Hearts fans in the process.

 

 

The Hearts players chose our country before football. We should not try to reduce its significance - especially to make the Record to look good.

[Jambopara]

Want nowt from Celtic , neither would the men of the Sporting Battalion.

[Maiden Gorgie]

I am pretty sure Hearts and other clubs like Raith and Hibs etc will have their own plans to commemorate the sacrifice their players made.

 

They don't need a Daily Record journalist telling them what might be a good idea.

[martoon]

If an offer came directly from Celtic I think it would be worth considering. Hearts almost certainly would have won the title in 1915 if war hadn't broken out and I feel that, albeit a century late, there is some merit in that being recognized. It's true that in the last 100 years Hearts losing that title because of the sacrafice made has added to the poignancy of the story but I don't believe that would diminish if we and future generations could look back at those lads as the Champions they deserved to be.