Stand Up-Date....Anyone?

[jkato]

All's quiet on the planning approval.

 

Anyone in "the know" care to appease us masses?

[Horse]

Too busy trying to spin the ST sales at the moment.

[iainmac]

It's with the Council - they're expected to come back to Hearts later this year (September, possibly). What's to know............?

[Praha06]

Too busy trying to spin the ST sales at the moment.

 

They must be well dizzy!

[Francis Albert]

Too busy trying to spin the ST sales at the moment.

 

What the Town Councll are at it too?

[PTBCAL]

All's quiet on the planning approval.

 

Anyone in "the know" care to appease us masses?

 

Hearts have to met several obligations with the council that requires financial committment on our part - i.e money in place to remove whisky vats and rebuild nursery. Seemingly the money should have been lodged earlier this year (hence the leaked stories by the council to the press) but Hearts have confirmed everything is in order (my guess is that Bednar money will be used).

 

I understand a favourable decision is expected around August/Sept.

[iaing]

this white elephant will disappear into the abyss after knockback after knockback after knockback.

[IMA MAROON]

With only 7,000 season tickets sold they are as well getting the work started right away.

[Guest casper]

With only 7,000 season tickets sold they are as well getting the work started right away.

 

Yeah, who needs the councils permission. Get it up NOW.

[IMA MAROON]

Yeah, who needs the councils permission. Get it up NOW.

 

Ha ha. I'm just saying there is no point in waiting until the end of next season because the ground is going to be half empty. Get it up asap.

[rudi]

With only 7,000 season tickets sold they are as well getting the work started right away.

 

Too right,yep lets get a stadium to hold 28,000 people when all we can muster is 7-9000 ST holders,where oh where are the other 19,000 going to come from?

[PTBCAL]

Too right,yep lets get a stadium to hold 28,000 people when all we can muster is 7-9000 ST holders,where oh where are the other 19,000 going to come from?

 

23,500.

[rudi]

23,500.

 

Is that all,jee,hardly worth putting it up then.

[Billy the Jambo]

Is that all,jee,hardly worth putting it up then.

 

You will have nothing to worry about because it wont go up .The hobos will win the scottish cup before that stand is built

[jambojim52]

It's with the Council - they're expected to come back to Hearts later this year (September, possibly). What's to know............?

 

A simple " factual" update might help. Hearts claimed they were in constant touch with the council over an 18month period, when the plans were being drawn up. How then does it take 8months to approve the plans.? Surely during the 18months any problems the council saw, would have been put right?

Surely it's a simple matter of rubber stamping the plans? If not what were they talking about for 18months?

[Guest casper]

A simple " factual" update might help. Hearts claimed they were in constant touch with the council over an 18month period, when the plans were being drawn up. How then does it take 8months to approve the plans.? Surely during the 18months any problems the council saw, would have been put right?

Surely it's a simple matter of rubber stamping the plans? If not what were they talking about for 18months?

 

Someone else said the whole thing now hinges on Hearts paying money for relocation of the whiskey and the nursery. I think the problem is the "paying money" bit. FWIW I doubt we will ever see this stand built.

[jambojim52]

Someone else said the whole thing now hinges on Hearts paying money for relocation of the whiskey and the nursery. I think the problem is the "paying money" bit. FWIW I doubt we will ever see this stand built.

 

FWIW I think you are right. Since that clown took over we have never paid a bill anywhere near on time. Money should have been put aside for this, with easy access for whoever is in charge of building the stand. I too am not convinced it will be build we can only wait and see. However someone MUST come clean soon and tell us what the **** is going on.

[rudi]

FWIW I think you are right. Since that clown took over we have never paid a bill anywhere near on time. Money should have been put aside for this, with easy access for whoever is in charge of building the stand. I too am not convinced it will be build we can only wait and see. However someone MUST come clean soon and tell us what the **** is going on.

 

That ,my friend ,will never happen,about anything,not from Vlads bunch anyway.

Funny that when someone does"come clean" and tell us somethig they get ripped to bits and called all sorts off names.

[Seymour M Hersh]

It's with the Council - they're expected to come back to Hearts later this year (September, possibly). What's to know............?

 

Indeed and what's to spin?

[Seymour M Hersh]

Is that all,jee,hardly worth putting it up then.

 

Apart from the fact that the old stand will sooner rather than later fail H&S and be closed. But don't let that stop the bile.

[Guest casper]

Apart from the fact that the old stand will sooner rather than later fail H&S and be closed. But don't let that stop the bile.

 

More spin.

[rudi]

More spin.

 

Nah to be fair Casper the stand is a bit off a death trap now, but I honestly cannot see Vlad ploughing millions into a new stand for no return,Murrayfield I say.

[Guest casper]

Nah to be fair Casper the stand is a bit off a death trap now, but I honestly cannot see Vlad ploughing millions into a new stand for no return,Murrayfield I say.

 

I agree that we'll end up at Murrayfield.

However the old stand could get remedial work to allow it to be used for many more years for much much less than ?51M.

[John Findlay]

Whether the stand gets built or not only time will tell.

 

What is evident is that getting things done via the council for a football stadium is not easy and very time consuming.

 

Take Portsmouth Football Club for example. Although the best and I mean the best in the EPL for match atmosphere the facilities at Fratton Park are without doubt the worst in the EPL and this was despite two seasons ago charging ?680 for a seat in the North Stand with a pillar in the way.

 

Way back in 1992 Portsmouth wanted to build a new stadium at Farlington on the North east of the city. The north side of the Four laned both ways A27.

The residents of Farlington were not best pleases as this is Portsmouth's equivalent of Barnton/Cramond. However there were already football and rugby pitches were Portsmouth wanted to build. The then council were in favour but, Portsmouth North had a Tory MP at the time Peter Griffiths and his seat to say the least was marginal. The plan was called in and refused by the then minister that loving Chelsea chap David Mellor on the grounds that the pitches were a breeding ground for Brent(Canadian) Geese.

 

Sixteen years later Portsmouth are still at Fratton Park.

 

 

 

John

[Phage]

Id like to see the biggest cheapest stand possible built where the main stand is. Double the seats that Hearts are talking about and less than quater the price.

 

Mind you the 51mil super stand sounds quite nice... but then I like the sound of me buying a Ferrari. Only thing is when I went to the garage and got means tested to buy my new car id be thrown straight back out and called a time waster.

[Phage]

Brent Geese sounds like a good player does he play right wing ?

[Coco]

I agree that we'll end up at Murrayfield.

However the old stand could get remedial work to allow it to be used for many more years for much much less than ?51M.

 

Any surveyors or construction guys on here who want to have a guess at how much it would cost to get Tynecastle over the safety rules hurdles?

 

Was there any information in the infamous Not Fit For Purpose report on this?

 

Is it as simple as removing the asbestos? Or what?

[PTBCAL]

Someone else said the whole thing now hinges on Hearts paying money for relocation of the whiskey and the nursery. I think the problem is the "paying money" bit. FWIW I doubt we will ever see this stand built.

 

It does not hinge on this.... Hearts need evidence that they have sufficient funds to relocate the nursery and whisky vats should the work begin. Bascially the council don't want to knock down the old nursery and build a new one costing over ?1m to find out Hearts are no longer going ahead with the project.

 

A lot of people on here say it won't get built etc.... but no-one ever gives a reason as to why it won't get built. Too easy to say Mad Vlad etc.... but the reality is that if it doesn't get built it will down to Hearts changing their minds - no other reason. And that might happen.

 

H&S - Tick

Police- Tick

Nursery - Tick

Whisy Vats - Tick

Chemical Vats - Tick

Council approval - Initial tick

 

5 obstacles in the way of Hearts have all been removed.

 

A lot of money and effort spent in trying to mislead the fans if you listen to some on here.

[Stuart Lyon]

Agreed Jammyjambo we should at least have a gander at him!

[Guest casper]

.... but no-one ever gives a reason as to why it won't get built.

 

I could give you 51,000,000 reasons.

[Coco]

It does not hinge on this.... Hearts need evidence that they have sufficient funds to relocate the nursery and whisky vats should the work begin. Bascially the council don't want to knock down the old nursery and build a new one costing over ?1m to find out Hearts are no longer going ahead with the project.

 

A lot of people on here say it won't get built etc.... but no-one ever gives a reason as to why it won't get built. Too easy to say Mad Vlad etc.... but the reality is that if it doesn't get built it will down to Hearts changing their minds - no other reason. And that might happen.

 

H&S - Tick

Police- Tick

Nursery - Tick

Whisy Vats - Tick

Chemical Vats - Tick

Council approval - Initial tick

 

5 obstacles in the way of Hearts have all been removed.

 

A lot of money and effort spent in trying to mislead the fans if you listen to some on here.

 

I think that their 'business plan' has gone down the swanny with the property market/credit crunch.

[Boris]

The ?51m is in relation tothe whole development though, noot just the stand.

 

To say that the stand will cost ?51m is akin to saying we were promised two world cup stars.

[Guest casper]

The ?51m is in relation tothe whole development though, noot just the stand.

 

To say that the stand will cost ?51m is akin to saying we were promised two world cup stars.

 

To get the stand it's either ?51M or nothing.

Do you think the stand will get built without the rest of the development?

[Coco]

The ?51m is in relation tothe whole development though, noot just the stand.

 

To say that the stand will cost ?51m is akin to saying we were promised two world cup stars.

 

Losses on both the stand and the other developments are not going to be very attractive.

 

Though of course, there have been very few rational acts by the regime since they took over, so they might be irrational on this development too.

[PTBCAL]

I don't think it will go ahead. Hearts may have spent money doing feasibility etc. However, the market changes all the time and I think they will be severly questioning the viability of investing ?51m in a relatively high risk development.

 

I also suspect the ?51 million would be a very conservative estimate. Extra's and under estimating alway lead to overspend on these type of things.

 

I have little doubt UBIG will looking at the whole development and particulary the financing of it in the current climate.

 

IMHO, I do not think the development would be succesfull and I suspect the powers that be may think similar. I do not think the location is suitable for the commercial activities that they are looking to attach. I also suspect that they are not able to attach as many commercial centures as they would like on the back of the stadium.

 

Being honest, whilst Hearts may have spent a lot of money. It is better to loose 2 million than potentially 10's of millions.

 

I suspect Hearts/Vlad/UBIG will be looking for some one to blame for the development not going ahead. Possibly pinning it on the council not bending enough on certain issues, I think is a real possibility.

 

Also I have little doubt Ripo spent a lot of money on the proposed development. Though thats not started either.

 

Just because Hearts have spend a lot of money does not mean, as you rightly say, will go ahead. There is a very real possibilty that Vlad/Hearts/UBIG will change their mind.

 

So do I.

[redm]

I don't think it will go ahead. Hearts may have spent money doing feasibility etc. However, the market changes all the time and I think they will be severly questioning the viability of investing ?51m in a relatively high risk development.

 

I also suspect the ?51 million would be a very conservative estimate. Extra's and under estimating alway lead to overspend on these type of things.

 

I have little doubt UBIG will looking at the whole development and particulary the financing of it in the current climate.

 

This isn't a high risk development but I'd be interested in knowing why you assumed it might be considered one.

 

 

IMHO' date=' I do not think the development would be succesfull and I suspect the powers that be may think similar. I do not think the location is suitable for the commercial activities that they are looking to attach. I also suspect that they are not able to attach as many commercial centures as they would like on the back of the stadium.[/quote']

 

The powers-that-be being the council? Not at all. Gorgie has been earmarked for regeneration and therefore developments like this are actively encouraged by the local council. Anything which enhances the local area and generates employment gets their vote - if you don't want to take my word for it, just grab yourself a copy of the local plan and get reading. Our stadium plans might suddenly look a whole lot more viable if more people were to look into the background to it all. Which commercial activities do you think are unsuitable though?

[ibpc]

A simple " factual" update might help. Hearts claimed they were in constant touch with the council over an 18month period, when the plans were being drawn up. How then does it take 8months to approve the plans.? Surely during the 18months any problems the council saw, would have been put right?

Surely it's a simple matter of rubber stamping the plans? If not what were they talking about for 18months?

 

As a former Council (not Edinburgh) planner, I can assure you that even after pre-application negotiations, the process is not speedy. The earlier suggestion of September sounds possible but would be a relatively speedy outcome for such a complex application. Pre-application discussions can help to identify and look at ways of eliminating problems but the processing of the application can throw up new issues and requires lengthy consultation with technical consultations and public comment.

 

Having seen the detail in the application, I am persuaded by the professionalism involved that this has been submitted as a serious project.

 

My big issue as a Hearts supporter is that I have difficulty squaring the high intentions for the development of the stadium with the way the team is currently being run into the ground with no investment in better players.

[topcat]

Am I the only one who saw the Thread title and initially thought that the OP had been stood up by their original date and was looking for a replacement?

[redm]

As a former Council (not Edinburgh) planner, I can assure you that even after pre-application negotiations, the process is not speedy. The earlier suggestion of September sounds possible but would be a relatively speedy outcome for such a complex application. Pre-application discussions can help to identify and look at ways of eliminating problems but the processing of the application can throw up new issues and requires lengthy consultation with technical consultations and public comment.

 

Having seen the detail in the application, I am persuaded by the professionalism involved that this has been submitted as a serious project.

 

My big issue as a Hearts supporter is that I have difficulty squaring the high intentions for the development of the stadium with the way the team is currently being run into the ground with no investment in better players.

 

Hooray! Great to have a professional opinion, finally. People seem convinced that the lengthy planning process is just a smokescreen for more dodgyness behind the scenes. In addition to standard timescales for large developments of this type, would the backlog associated with domestic/smaller applications also be likely to affect the timescales for this application?

[Dr. Bapswent]

As a former Council (not Edinburgh) planner, I can assure you that even after pre-application negotiations, the process is not speedy. The earlier suggestion of September sounds possible but would be a relatively speedy outcome for such a complex application. Pre-application discussions can help to identify and look at ways of eliminating problems but the processing of the application can throw up new issues and requires lengthy consultation with technical consultations and public comment.

 

Having seen the detail in the application, I am persuaded by the professionalism involved that this has been submitted as a serious project.

 

My big issue as a Hearts supporter is that I have difficulty squaring the high intentions for the development of the stadium with the way the team is currently being run into the ground with no investment in better players.

 

Booo Hisss

 

Stone him!!!

[Guest casper]

Hooray! Great to have a professional opinion, finally. People seem convinced that the lengthy planning process is just a smokescreen for more dodgyness behind the scenes. In addition to standard timescales for large developments of this type, would the backlog associated with domestic/smaller applications also be likely to affect the timescales for this application?

 

I certainly have no questions about the time it's all taking.

My questions are more about where the ?51M is coming from and, given the state of the team, where the 24,000 bodies to fill it are going to come from.

[Jammy T]

 

A lot of people on here say it won't get built etc.... but no-one ever gives a reason as to why it won't get built. Too easy to say Mad Vlad etc.... but the reality is that if it doesn't get built it will down to Hearts changing their minds - no other reason. And that might happen.

 

.

 

I personally think the economic climate - from a financing, investment, commercial property, inflation related capital cost increase, construction drain to the olympics etc basis - will be a hindrance to the project progressing past planning in the near term

 

This isnt Vlads fault of course

[rossi_1983]

Liverpool's Stanley Park proposals have recently been accepted, after the planning started 4 years ago, so it isn't just Hearts that this process takes time with!

 

People complaining about the cost of the stand...it is largely for the auxiliary development, which we need to be able to sustain ourselves as a club.

[Simmo]

A simple " factual" update might help. Hearts claimed they were in constant touch with the council over an 18month period, when the plans were being drawn up. How then does it take 8months to approve the plans.? Surely during the 18months any problems the council saw, would have been put right?

Surely it's a simple matter of rubber stamping the plans? If not what were they talking about for 18months?

 

Obviously you are not in the building trade. The 18 months were spent on the discussion of the technicalities of the design. Having thrashed all that out with the Council and other interested parties and having the mountain of Planning Application paperwork prepared the formal application is submitted for Council approval. I can assure you from personal experience that 8 months for that, if achieved, will be a bloody miracle. I am involved with another major project in the city and that has already been three years on the table and still nowhere near ready to start construction!!!!!! If you have the time and inclination then I suggest you have a look at the Council website and have a wee read of all the correspondence regarding the application to date then come back on and tell us it is all the fault of VR and HMFC.

[Jammy T]

Liverpool's Stanley Park proposals have recently been accepted, after the planning started 4 years ago, so it isn't just Hearts that this process takes time with!

 

People complaining about the cost of the stand...it is largely for the auxiliary development, which we need to be able to sustain ourselves as a club.

 

Absolutely

 

This is why any cost projections based upon a new stand being built within 2 or 3 years of Romanov arriving were always doomed to be flawed.

 

This point is made purely upon the presumption that the economic cost cutting argument is correct.

[redm]

I certainly have no questions about the time it's all taking.

My questions are more about where the ?51M is coming from and, given the state of the team, where the 24,000 bodies to fill it are going to come from.

 

Yes, I didn't mean everyone...just some....

[Jammy T]

Obviously you are not in the building trade. The 18 months were spent on the discussion of the technicalities of the design. Having thrashed all that out with the Council and other interested parties and having the mountain of Planning Application paperwork prepared the formal application is submitted for Council approval. I can assure you from personal experience that 8 months for that, if achieved, will be a bloody miracle. I am involved with another major project in the city and that has already been three years on the table and still nowhere near ready to start construction!!!!!! If you have the time and inclination then I suggest you have a look at the Council website and have a wee read of all the correspondence regarding the application to date then come back on and tell us it is all the fault of VR and HMFC.

 

It also ignores the right of public objection and enquiry into any planning application

 

A lot of people with no connection to Romanov, or over whom he has no control can (and will, no doubt) still delay this much longer

 

It will be interesting to see how this impacts upon him and the club

[Coco]

Liverpool's Stanley Park proposals have recently been accepted, after the planning started 4 years ago, so it isn't just Hearts that this process takes time with!

 

People complaining about the cost of the stand...it is largely for the auxiliary development, which we need to be able to sustain ourselves as a club.

 

My guess is that someone at UBIG is waking up to the realisation that a hotel/office development in a subprime area of Edinburgh at this point in the property/business cycle would be a financial millstone which would make losses even if they can finance it.

 

If it is to gift Hearts a stand (and why would they do that) it has to compete against all the other developments which haven't gifted a football club a stand. Difficult. If it is not to gift Hearts a stand - do you think that the extra revenue it would bring in would be enough to offset the costs of the stand?

[Guest casper]

People complaining about the cost of the stand...it is largely for the auxiliary development, which we need to be able to sustain ourselves as a club.

 

This is what we're led to believe, but nobody has ever adequately (or even inadequately) explained where the initial funding is coming from, who will be paying the cost of that funding and what will be the scale of the financial benefit to Hearts (if any) that leads you to believe we could "be able to sustain ourselves as a club" from this development.

[Coco]

This is what we're led to believe, but nobody has ever adequately (or even inadequately) explained where the initial funding is coming from, who will be paying the cost of that funding and what will be the scale of the financial benefit to Hearts (if any) that leads you to believe we could "be able to sustain ourselves as a club" from this development.

 

I remember a club in Edinburgh where a string of hotels and pubs were going to bring in riches to spend on players ... that did not end too well.