Ukio look to appoint own administrator.

[babertonjambo]

So it will likely be Pinsent Masons in Glasgow who are the Administrators if UKIO are successful in contesting this?

[TheMaganator]

You've got a car and you want to sell it. Do you get on Gumtree and let it go for the best price offered, even if it's less than you hoped for? Or do you try and sell the steering wheel, then the seats, then the fuel pump, then the mats, then the wipers, then the...?

 

Stop and think. What assets do we have, seriously? How much hassle, time and expense do you think the admins want to try and wring an extra few hundred grand out of us via an asset sale? Remember, all the time they're breaking us up and selling us for pennies they're still getting paid, it's not likely to add much if anything to the pot.

 

Agreed - my burdz works in insolvency and she thinks there is little change of us being liquidated. Not that this will provide much, if any, solace, but just thought I'd put it out there.

[Robbo-Jambo]

 

 

 

It most certainly will not be easy, or painless, and I wouldn't pretend otherwise.

 

Some of the doomsday scenarios being suggested on JKB and other places are theoretically possibly (some are complete pish!) but are about as likely as me winning tonight's Euromillions lottery tho

 

As I was last month, last week, and yesterday, and while there can be no guarantees, I'd still say today that I'm cautiously optimistic about the outcome.

 

Are you cautiously optimistic because of the consortium that you know about or just in general terms ?

[jambo19]

Just seen on news that ukio are set to challenge hearts bid to have kpmg appointed and hope to appoint there own administrators!!

 

What could this mean?

 

Can they appoint their own administrator though? Surely a conflict of interest, not very independent compared to KPMG

[Haken]

Agreed - my burdz works in insolvency and she thinks there is little change of us being liquidated. Not that this will provide much, if any, solace, but just thought I'd put it out there.

 

It does offer a wee bit of solace, because what I understand is that if the club is able to exit adminstration as a going concern, season tickets will have to be honoured. If the club ends up in a liquidation scenario, bye-bye season tickets.

 

The fact is that it looks as though adminstration, whatever the nationality, is now going to happen. One way or the other, we're going to have answers. They range of possibilities seems to include Favourable, Acceptable, No-Likey and FFS.

[TheMaganator]

Can they appoint their own administrator though? Surely a conflict of interest, not very independent compared to KPMG

 

Yes, they can. As they have the floater over Tynie.

 

Anyway, from what I've heard it is a respectable firm and not a D&F job ala Rangers.

[Francis Albert]

It does offer a wee bit of solace, because what I understand is that if the club is able to exit adminstration as a going concern, season tickets will have to be honoured. If the club ends up in a liquidation scenario, bye-bye season tickets.

 

The fact is that it looks as though adminstration, whatever the nationality, is now going to happen. One way or the other, we're going to have answers. They range of possibilities seems to include Favourable, Acceptable, No-Likey and FFS.

Ian Murray said the opposite on Friday - no guarantee FoH will be honour STs if they buy the club through administration. (see iainmac's thread on the "media transcript")

[Glamorgan Jambo]

Not sure the judge will allow this move by UKIO's administrator. Anyone know when the case comes up at the COS?

[Kinkster]

So it will likely be Pinsent Masons in Glasgow who are the Administrators if UKIO are successful in contesting this?

 

Doubt it, they are lawyers.

 

This is not really that unusual. The secured creditor /floating charge holder would always want to appoint their own adminstrator. If there was a UK Bank holding the charge they would do exactly the same thing.

[altyjambo]

It shouldn't really matter which administrator is appointed - in theory they have the same job which is to get as much back for the creditors as possible. As UBIG and Ukio will have 25m out the probable 30m or so, they should get the lion's share of any money raised. If you were in their situation, you'd want your man to be in the chair, so it's not surprising they are asking for this.

 

Issues as I see it -

1) what assets do we have? Tynecastle is probably the only one worth diddly-squat. Any players worth into six figures will have been released or sold by now. So, selling these assets for anything will be unlikely to do more than cover the administrator's costs. As for Tynie, it's different from the Pieman's days - the housing market's dead, there's three big supermarkets within spitting distance and there's unlikely to be anyone else in for a landlocked bit of real estate in Gorgie.

2) What income do we have? The administrator has to balance the books - to keep paying staff and tax and so on, there's got to be a source of income, and I get the impression there's little money coming in. That could lead to a lot more short term cost cutting than say Rangers who were mid-season. That means staff and players sadly.....Obviously the likes of Wilson who hasn't even been registered will have to go by the wayside now. It does put the pressure on, as the administrator can't keep paying players with no money coming in.

3) The Lithuanians - will the administrators want to do something quickly - I suspect they will for the reasons above - liquidation won't do them any good. A quick offer of a few million to walk away is the best they'll get and they should realise that, It's just finding that xmillion that's the problem....

[On my Lunch]

 

2) What income do we have? The administrator has to balance the books - to keep paying staff and tax and so on, there's got to be a source of income, and I get the impression there's little money coming in. That could lead to a lot more short term cost cutting than say Rangers who were mid-season. That means staff and players sadly.....Obviously the likes of Wilson who hasn't even been registered will have to go by the wayside now. It does put the pressure on, as the administrator can't keep paying players with no money coming in.

 

This to me is key however whats the chance that anyone who was holding off getting a season ticket as they were waiting for new owners will buy whilst we are in admin ?

[TheMaganator]

This to me is key however whats the chance that anyone who was holding off getting a season ticket as they were waiting for new owners will buy whilst we are in admin ?

 

Zero.

 

You may get a few sales in the shop but that'll be it while we're in admin.

[Hungry hippo]

The secured creditor will want to appoint their man this week to cut a deal with the prefferred bidder. They will want a quick process as well. The issue will be short term cashflow to meet wages whilst the legal process takes its (statutory) time.

 

Listen to this poster. He been correct about everything so far including predicting this.

 

The good news it's he also predicted agreed CVA and debt free in 40 to 45 days.

[On my Lunch]

Zero.

 

You may get a few sales in the shop but that'll be it while we're in admin.

 

Which means no income coming in so does that mean a very short admin before the administrator must move to liquidation.

 

I'm still holding onto my hope that Gasman knows the score

[jimthejambo]

Apparently they want BDO to be the administrators

[Footballfirst]

It will be interesting to see who gets precedence for the selection of administrators in Hearts case.

 

It many ways it is similar to the RFC case. The largest shareholder CW wanted D&P while the largest creditor, HMRC, wanted BDO. In Hearts case you can substitute UBIG for CW and Ukio for HMRC.

 

What the difference of opinion may be is that the relationship between the Ukio liquidators and UBIG, in Lithuania, may already be somewhat strained or broken down completely. (remember that UBIG will be Ukio's largest debtor). The Ukio liquidator will keen to ensure that the position of Ukio is not compromised by a compliant UBIG selected administrator for Hearts.

 

There is no historical floating charge at play in Hearts case, which means that there will be no receiver appointed who's primary duty is to the floating charge holder. I'm sure that any Scottish based company appointed will conduct the administration fairly and in the interests of all creditors, as they are legally required to do.

 

I hope that KPMG get the gig as Blair Nimmo has plenty experience in football administrations and should know the right buttons to press with the football authorities.

 

BDO's Bryan Jackson would also be ok, but he is currently tied up with an important phase in the Dunfermline process (final bids are due in today).

[Haken]

Ian Murray said the opposite on Friday - no guarantee FoH will be honour STs if they buy the club through administration. (see iainmac's thread on the "media transcript")

Saw that, but the info. I posted cam from a lawyer (offering a view rather than advice). Murray's statement is a little strange given that they're still encouraging people to pledge ie 'pledge to our group; our group might not honour season tickets if successful.'.

 

Guess we'll know soon enough, one way or t'other.

[Kinkster]

 

It will be interesting to see who gets precedence for the selection of administrators in Hearts case.

 

It many ways it is similar to the RFC case. The largest shareholder CW wanted D&P while the largest creditor, HMRC, wanted BDO. In Hearts case you can substitute UBIG for CW and Ukio for HMRC.

 

What the difference of opinion may be is that the relationship between the Ukio liquidators and UBIG, in Lithuania, may already be somewhat strained or broken down completely. (remember that UBIG will be Ukio's largest debtor). The Ukio liquidator will keen to ensure that the position of Ukio is not compromised by a compliant UBIG selected administrator for Hearts.

 

There is no historical floating charge at play in Hearts case, which means that there will be no receiver appointed who primary duty is to the floating charge holder. I'm sure that any Scottish based company appointed will conduct the administration fairly and in the interests of all creditors, as they are legally required to do.

 

I hope that KPMG get the gig as Blair Nimmo has plenty experience in football administrations and should know the right buttons to press with the football authorities.

 

BDO's Bryan Jackson would also be ok, but he is currently tied up with an important phase in the Dunfermline process (final bids are due in today).

 

Couldnt disagree more about Blair Nimmo.

[Footballfirst]

Couldnt disagree more about Blair Nimmo.

 

Any particular reasons or bad experiences? I'd be interested to know. It may alter my views on what's best for Hearts.

[TheMaganator]

Any particular reasons or bad experiences? I'd be interested to know. It may alter my views on what's best for Hearts.

I'd prefer BN too but BDO was the firm I had heard was preferred by UKIO.

 

You may have answered this before Footballfirst, and apologies if so, but can our admins (whoever they may be) actually sell the club until we know what's going on with UBIG?

 

My understanding is that they are a rudderless ship with no directors and no admins - so what does that mean for Hearts? Do we know when UBIG will be appointing admins?

[Footballfirst]

I'd prefer BN too but BDO was the firm I had heard was preferred by UKIO.

 

You may have answered this before Footballfirst, and apologies if so, but can our admins (whoever they may be) actually sell the club until we know what's going on with UBIG?

 

My understanding is that they are a rudderless ship with no directors and no admins - so what does that mean for Hearts? Do we know when UBIG will be appointing admins?

The administrator will have to get access to the UBIG shares as they have to be part of any deal. I'm not sure of the extent of the powers of the administrator, but I expect that he could probably go to the Court of Session and seek authority to sell the shares in the best interest of the creditors.

[CJGJ]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22953448

 

Hearts' parent company UBIG have approached insolvency firm BDO to become the club's administrators.

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22953448

 

Hearts' parent company UBIG have approached insolvency firm BDO to become the club's administrators.

So the BBC get it wrong again!

 

It is Ukio who has asked for BDO.

[TheMaganator]

http://www.bbc.co.uk...otball/22953448

 

Hearts' parent company UBIG have approached insolvency firm BDO to become the club's administrators.

 

Strange - who is in charge there? to make the approach?

[TheMaganator]

The administrator will have to get access to the UBIG shares as they have to be part of any deal. I'm not sure of the extent of the powers of the administrator, but I expect that he could probably go to the Court of Session and seek authority to sell the shares in the best interest of the creditors.

 

Would the Court of Session have the power to do that to a Lithuanian company? I am not sure they would.

So do we not need to wait until UBIGs position has been confirmed by the courts in Lithuania?

[Footballfirst]

Would the Court of Session have the power to do that to a Lithuanian company? I am not sure they would.

So do we not need to wait until UBIGs position has been confirmed by the courts in Lithuania?

 

I'm afraid that the answer to that question is beyond my ken. However, Hearts is a Scottish registered company and any owner would have to observe Scottish law as it applies to their shareholding.

[Strachsuit]

It shouldn't really matter which administrator is appointed - in theory they have the same job which is to get as much back for the creditors as possible.

 

That's what folk thought when Mr Whyte appointed D&P...

[RosscoC]

 

 

 

Couldnt disagree more about Blair Nimmo.

 

There's a surprise.

[babertonjambo]

http://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/top-football-stories/hearts-four-bidders-eyeing-moves-for-club-1-2970062

[Francis Albert]

http://www.scotsman....-club-1-2970062

Surely the idea that KPMG would look after Hearts but a Ukio appointed administrator would only look after Ukio alone is nonsense. The administrator, whoever is appointed, is acting primarily in the interests of creditors (or should be).

[babertonjambo]

Surely the idea that KPMG would look after Hearts but a Ukio appointed administrator would only look after Ukio alone is nonsense. The administrator, whoever is appointed, is acting primarily in the interests of creditors (or should be).

 

I agree. Other than providing the Haines Watt connection it is a very poor article IMO.

[deko 94]

http://www.scotsman....-club-1-2970062

?They are going to have to appoint someone local. I think rules are that they can?t use someone who has administered or liquidated a club in the last 12 months, so that rules out big companies involved at Dunfermline and Rangers. There aren?t many left." so will this rule out BDO being administrators?

[bobbydee]

Yeah that's right smaller creditors don't have a say in what happens either way its up to the main creditors to agree .

A client of mine went in to admin . It was a large chain of pubs and I only worked for one of them .i was due $4.5k and I got a check for $11.00

 

I was lucky that I got on with the manager and he honored the original payment as he needed my services on going .

There was nothing u could have said or done

 

 

That's not how CVAs work is it? I thought if the larger creditors agreed, the others have no say in it.

 

http://www.bankruptcy-insolvency.co.uk/business_solutions/company_voluntary_arrangement.php

 

75 per cent. Ukio and UBIG together are more than that.

 

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta

[jambojardine7490]

has anybody else noticed the utter sh**e that brian mclaughlin reports? for his and your information, administration is not an insolvency event therefore there will be no points deduction under these news insolvency rules. as long as hearts exit administration successfully as the same company then none of these new insolvency penalties can be applied. end of. to sum up administration does not equal liquidation. bbc get your facts right

[Diego10]

has anybody else noticed the utter sh**e that brian mclaughlin reports? for his and your information, administration is not an insolvency event therefore there will be no points deduction under these news insolvency rules. as long as hearts exit administration successfully as the same company then none of these new insolvency penalties can be applied. end of. to sum up administration does not equal liquidation. bbc get your facts right

you're no the Hearts financial director by any chance?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

has anybody else noticed the utter sh**e that brian mclaughlin reports? for his and your information, administration is not an insolvency event therefore there will be no points deduction under these news insolvency rules. as long as hearts exit administration successfully as the same company then none of these new insolvency penalties can be applied. end of. to sum up administration does not equal liquidation. bbc get your facts right

 

[graygo]

has anybody else noticed the utter sh**e that brian mclaughlin reports? for his and your information, administration is not an insolvency event therefore there will be no points deduction under these news insolvency rules. as long as hearts exit administration successfully as the same company then none of these new insolvency penalties can be applied. end of. to sum up administration does not equal liquidation. bbc get your facts right

 

What a lot of guff.

 

Administration, is an insolvency event as far as the football authorities are concerned and we WILL be hit with a 15 point deduction next season.

[Monkey Watcher]

It will be interesting to see who gets precedence for the selection of administrators in Hearts case.

 

It many ways it is similar to the RFC case. The largest shareholder CW wanted D&P while the largest creditor, HMRC, wanted BDO. In Hearts case you can substitute UBIG for CW and Ukio for HMRC.

 

What the difference of opinion may be is that the relationship between the Ukio liquidators and UBIG, in Lithuania, may already be somewhat strained or broken down completely. (remember that UBIG will be Ukio's largest debtor). The Ukio liquidator will keen to ensure that the position of Ukio is not compromised by a compliant UBIG selected administrator for Hearts.

 

There is no historical floating charge at play in Hearts case, which means that there will be no receiver appointed who's primary duty is to the floating charge holder. I'm sure that any Scottish based company appointed will conduct the administration fairly and in the interests of all creditors, as they are legally required to do.

 

I hope that KPMG get the gig as Blair Nimmo has plenty experience in football administrations and should know the right buttons to press with the football authorities.

 

BDO's Bryan Jackson would also be ok, but he is currently tied up with an important phase in the Dunfermline process (final bids are due in today).

Out of interest (I genuinely don't know), what football administrations has Nimmo been involved in directly? I can think of one where the club was liquidated - and he didn't cover himself in any glory whatsoever apparently. I know he's doing the East End Park side for Dunfermline (i.e. not club) and KPMG did Leeds but I dont think it was him.

 

Brian Jackson on the other hand appears to be the go to man (e.g. Motherwell, Dundee, Portsmouth) - although you are right about being involved in the Dunfermline process.

[Boris]

What if we are bought over quickly? Are we then still in admin?

 

Apologies if a daft question.

[heartsfc_fan]

UBIG have apparently knocked back KPMG

[troonmaroon]

From admin thread - stv saying we haven't even lodged papers in court yet!?

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

From admin thread - stv saying we haven't even lodged papers in court yet!?

I'm beginning to wonder if Southern called them in but the directors won't sign off on it.

 

EDIT: I just received a message indicating this is a very strong possibility. This is worrying.

[jambojardine7490]

but legally it isnt. if hearts take it through the courts theyd win. I know this since I work for her majesty

[Tiberius Stinkfinger]

I'm beginning to wonder if Southern called them in but the directors won't sign off on it.

 

EDIT: I just received a message indicating this is a very strong possibility. This is worrying.

 

 

You didn't really think this was going to simple did you..........

[TheMaganator]

You didn't really think this was going to simple did you..........

 

If this is true it'll be the end for us.

 

HMRC will lodge a winding up order and unless we pay it we'll be wound up.

[On my Lunch]

If this is true it'll be the end for us.

 

HMRC will lodge a winding up order and unless we pay it we'll be wound up.

 

We get approx 8 days from the date they lodge the order

[Geoff Kilpatrick]

 

 

If this is true it'll be the end for us.

 

HMRC will lodge a winding up order and unless we pay it we'll be wound up.

Yep, and maybe that is the intention of it.

[shaun.lawson]

I'm beginning to wonder if Southern called them in but the directors won't sign off on it.

 

EDIT: I just received a message indicating this is a very strong possibility. This is worrying.

 

Uh oh.

[altyjambo]

If the Directors of a business know that it is trading insolvently, then they have no choice but to call in administrators. Otherwise they will be personally liable for the debts.

The main definition is that they cannot afford to pay liabilities as they fall due and have no reasonable means of being able to do so.

Given ST money has dried up, and there isn't a serious white knight in discussions with the board, and obviously nothing from the owners, there seems little choice. Presumably DS knows this....

[Fermit the Krog]

Shit.