Walter Bishop Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just seen on news that ukio are set to challenge hearts bid to have kpmg appointed and hope to appoint there own administrators!! What could this mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7628mm Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Just seen on news that ukio are set to challenge hearts bid to have kpmg appointed and hope to appoint there own administrators!! What could this mean? A somewhat similar scenario to the appointment Fudd & Flaps by the blue nose bigotted barstewards. Look after yourself and forget everyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midloth_Iain Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Who would have (ultimately) decided to appoint KPMG ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 It's within Ukio's rights to do so. They are the secured creditor with first dibs on the assets. What it probably means is that they will try to guarantee any bottom line of a quantum for a CVA to be offered on. In other words, 2-3p in the ? won't buy you much of a business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Who would have (ultimately) decided to appoint KPMG ? The Hearts 'board' (used advisedly). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Is it the administrator of Ukios that wants to do this or the old Vlad board of the bank ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Is it the administrator of Ukios that wants to do this or the old Vlad board of the bank ? Ukio Bankas, not UBIG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToadKiller Dog Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Ukio Bankas, not UBIG. Sorry what I meant the banks administrators . Brain works slow after night shift . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hibsarepants Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The secured creditor will want to appoint their man this week to cut a deal with the prefferred bidder. They will want a quick process as well. The issue will be short term cashflow to meet wages whilst the legal process takes its (statutory) time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Is this not a bad thing in the sense they could block any cva thus pushing us into liquidation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory House M.D. Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Oh, great. Liquidation after a shameless asset strip then? Horrible *****. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Is this not a bad thing in the sense they could block any cva thus pushing us into liquidation? They could do that anyway, irrespective of who the administrator was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menstrie1874 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The secured creditor will want to appoint their man this week to cut a deal with the prefferred bidder. They will want a quick process as well. The issue will be short term cashflow to meet wages whilst the legal process takes its (statutory) time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
menstrie1874 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 So, this could be good for us and in line with Ian Murray 4th of July wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 They could do that anyway, irrespective of who the administrator was. I appreciate that Geoff but what I was trying to say was if they are pissed off it makes dealing with them a bit trickier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Brilliant... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I appreciate that Geoff but what I was trying to say was if they are pissed off it makes dealing with them a bit trickier. I don't know about that. Maybe they want the Duffers Mark 2 in! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1874robbo Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 I don't know about that. Maybe they want the Duffers Mark 2 in! You could be correct, if I was an employee so would I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 UKIO have their own preferred admins. We new this was potentially coming. They have 5 days to challenge but it looks like they are on top of it. I'd have preferred Edinburgh based KPMG though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy T Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Aye it's such a relief to be in administration, it makes things much clearer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Aye it's such a relief to be in administration, it makes things much clearer... We really need a handbag emoticon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartbeat Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Honest question here but 25m to UBIG/Ukio, 1.5 M to HMRC and possibly more now these are the well publicised largish creditors but is anyone aware of smaller creditors who may not individualy be due a large sum but collectively will no doubt add to the pile and who would require to agree to a CVA if they were to see any return on the debt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Aye it's such a relief to be in administration, it makes things much clearer... At least we know where we stand. Worth it to get rid of Romanov etc... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Honest question here but 25m to UBIG/Ukio, 1.5 M to HMRC and possibly more now these are the well publicised largish creditors but is anyone aware of smaller creditors who may not individualy be due a large sum but collectively will no doubt add to the pile and who would require to agree to a CVA if they were to see any return on the debt All season ticket holders for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 UKIO have their own preferred admins. We new this was potentially coming. They have 5 days to challenge but it looks like they are on top of it. I'd have preferred Edinburgh based KPMG though Me too... No guarantee it will succeed though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderstruck Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 All season ticket holders for starters. Correct and, as I said/asked yesterday, as a "class" who represents us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Correct and, as I said/asked yesterday, as a "class" who represents us? You are riding solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Honest question here but 25m to UBIG/Ukio, 1.5 M to HMRC and possibly more now these are the well publicised largish creditors but is anyone aware of smaller creditors who may not individualy be due a large sum but collectively will no doubt add to the pile and who would require to agree to a CVA if they were to see any return on the debt That's not how CVAs work is it? I thought if the larger creditors agreed, the others have no say in it. http://www.bankruptcy-insolvency.co.uk/business_solutions/company_voluntary_arrangement.php 75 per cent. Ukio and UBIG together are more than that. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambo66 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Honest question here but 25m to UBIG/Ukio, 1.5 M to HMRC and possibly more now these are the well publicised largish creditors but is anyone aware of smaller creditors who may not individualy be due a large sum but collectively will no doubt add to the pile and who would require to agree to a CVA if they were to see any return on the debt If UBIG and UKIO agree a CVA, no other creditors' votes will matter as they will not be able to block it. As has been said by many posters on several different threads, the only reason Rangers deceased went into liquidation is because HMRC do not do CVAs. Since they were the biggest creditor, they could and did block the CVA. All of the other creditors for us will know that they are likely to get more from a CVA than from liquidation. After all, the costs of administration are a given and will reduce their pay out - why would they then want to have the additional costs of liquidation reduce the pay out even more? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMac Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 All season ticket holders for starters. Season ticket holders are not creditors. They only become creditors if tickets are no honoured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 The secured creditor will want to appoint their man this week to cut a deal with the prefferred bidder. They will want a quick process as well. The issue will be short term cashflow to meet wages whilst the legal process takes its (statutory) time. This x 51..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
babertonjambo Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 This x 51..! I like these posts so I am in this camp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praha06 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 What are the chances of this move by Ukio (administrators) simply to make sure they get as much money as possible by way of completely asset stripping us and leaving hearts existing by name only? Liquidation and finally annhialation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zico Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Season ticket holders are not creditors. They only become creditors if tickets are no honoured. That's how I saw it. Hearts don't 'owe' us anything other than a service we've paid for, which they may or may not wish to/choose to/be able to provide. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jambof3tornado Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Wonder if the Lithuanian choice charges less per hour than kpmg who would drag their heels to up their fees while enjoying the free publicity they would be getting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
naeclue Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Honest question here but 25m to UBIG/Ukio, 1.5 M to HMRC and possibly more now these are the well publicised largish creditors but is anyone aware of smaller creditors who may not individualy be due a large sum but collectively will no doubt add to the pile and who would require to agree to a CVA if they were to see any return on the debt I am hoping that Hearts long term habit of waiting to be sued before paying bills led to most suppliers putting them on cash in advance terms. No idea if that is the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 If UBIG and UKIO agree a CVA, no other creditors' votes will matter as they will not be able to block it. As has been said by many posters on several different threads, the only reason Rangers deceased went into liquidation is because HMRC do not do CVAs. Since they were the biggest creditor, they could and did block the CVA. All of the other creditors for us will know that they are likely to get more from a CVA than from liquidation. After all, the costs of administration are a given and will reduce their pay out - why would they then want to have the additional costs of liquidation reduce the pay out even more? Exactly. I reckon 3 million would get you Hearts. No more than 5. But you'd need another few initially to keep club in SPL. You'd need up to 10 to make this work short term. Of course you could do it for less if you accept relegation next season. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToYouToMe Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 What are the chances of this move by Ukio (administrators) simply to make sure they get as much money as possible by way of completely asset stripping us and leaving hearts existing by name only? Liquidation and finally annhialation? Non existent. Why go through all that if someone offers you more? The administrator in Lithuania has already stated he has no interest in harming us. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diego10 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 What are the chances of this move by Ukio (administrators) simply to make sure they get as much money as possible by way of completely asset stripping us and leaving hearts existing by name only? Liquidation and finally annhialation? The way things stand UKIO would get the vadt majority of any cash from either a CVA or liquidation anyway. UBIG are what worries me as they have the power to block a CVA and not much to lose from doing so. Not much to gain either I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praha06 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Non existent. Why go through all that if someone offers you more? The administrator in Lithuania has already stated he has no interest in harming us. Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Yeh so the more likely motive here is keeping things simple by doing it all over there seeing as our two major creditors are over there (Lithuania) and the only ones req'd to see through a CVA. All in all making this a smooth relatively quick and painless operation? This is ******* horrible by the way! Hating the uncertainty of it all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Wonder if the Lithuanian choice charges less per hour than kpmg who would drag their heels to up their fees while enjoying the free publicity they would be getting. Their own choice isn't cheap either and KPMG would have a duty to get the best money for the creditors. There is also a high percentage chance that KPMG would have one or two Jambos in it - not that that would make a huge difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
On my Lunch Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 This x 51..! Gasman Your contributions have always come across as reasonable and balanced and you seem a hell of a lot closer to this than me and so many others so if this means " it may not be as bad as I think" then thanks for that small glimmer of hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PTBCAL Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 When is the hearing at Court? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praha06 Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Their own choice isn't cheap either and KPMG would have a duty to get the best money for the creditors. There is also a high percentage chance that KPMG would have one or two Jambos in it - not that that would make a huge difference. It wouldn't matter as Ukio and UBIG are our our major creditors and with us potentially using ukios own administrators you can guarantee they would do what's best for their creditors as they're effectively one and the same. It's UBIG that worry me as another poster has said. Ukio have been fairly encouraging in their rhetoric regarding the fate of Hearts football club. UBIG on the otherhand have been very quiet and strike me as a bunch of chancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Thor Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Season ticket holders are not creditors. They only become creditors if tickets are no honoured. That would be the ultimate **** you from this crooked mob and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Kilpatrick Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 That would be the ultimate **** you from this crooked mob and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. That would be the decision of the administrator and whoever agreed a CVA, if one happens. FoH have hinted that they won't honour them, for starters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 Gasman Your contributions have always come across as reasonable and balanced and you seem a hell of a lot closer to this than me and so many others so if this means " it may not be as bad as I think" then thanks for that small glimmer of hope It most certainly will not be easy, or painless, and I wouldn't pretend otherwise. Some of the doomsday scenarios being suggested on JKB and other places are theoretically possibly (some are complete pish!) but are about as likely as me winning tonight's Euromillions lottery though. As I was last month, last week, and yesterday, and while there can be no guarantees, I'd still say today that I'm cautiously optimistic about the outcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
letsalllaughathobos Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 But but but nobody can find anybody to deal with in lithuania, surprise surprise, treated like fools everyone of us, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 What are the chances of this move by Ukio (administrators) simply to make sure they get as much money as possible by way of completely asset stripping us and leaving hearts existing by name only? Liquidation and finally annhialation? You've got a car and you want to sell it. Do you get on Gumtree and let it go for the best price offered, even if it's less than you hoped for? Or do you try and sell the steering wheel, then the seats, then the fuel pump, then the mats, then the wipers, then the...? Stop and think. What assets do we have, seriously? How much hassle, time and expense do you think the admins want to try and wring an extra few hundred grand out of us via an asset sale? Remember, all the time they're breaking us up and selling us for pennies they're still getting paid, it's not likely to add much if anything to the pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tartofmidlothian Posted June 18, 2013 Share Posted June 18, 2013 It most certainly will not be easy, or painless, and I wouldn't pretend otherwise. Some of the doomsday scenarios being suggested on JKB and other places are theoretically possibly (some are complete pish!) but are about as likely as me winning tonight's Euromillions lottery though. As I was last month, last week, and yesterday, and while there can be no guarantees, I'd still say today that I'm cautiously optimistic about the outcome. Me too. I think this will be more of a Motherwell or Dundee administration than a Rangers one, hope so anyway. You're right about the doomsday scenario chat, some right pitiful knicker-twisters on here in the last few hours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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