The Gasman Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 The way I see it ... If a business is sold while solvent then they'll be worth far far more than when insolvent, why on earth would the Administrators let us go into Administration as the 15 point deduction would also reduce our value as there's a bigger risk of relegation. I'm confident they won't push us into administration, but I don't think they can or will do anything to prevent it happening. They don't have cash to pay any of our debts, that's our problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 Now that liquidation proceeding have been confirmed, it should actually make it a little easier for a prospective buyer. Hearts debt is classed as a "bad debt", otherwise it would have been transferred to Siauliu along with the good loans and assets. As is the case for all bad dets, the liquidator will now seek to recover whatever he can, otherwise it will be written off. Anything he can recover is a bonus. While the security over Tynecastle has a value, it is really a subjective one. Now is the time for FoH, or any other party, to start negotiating hard with the liquidator and most importantly talk down its value of the main asset. e.g. its a firesale situation, work is required to replace the main stand, site clearance costs for any developer, planning permission unlikely due to COMAH concerns re the adjacent ethanol storage. If Ukio have taken ownership of the 29.9% of the shares in the club pledged to them by UBIG, then they should be included in any deal. What should the offer be? That's the $64,000 question. Start with a low offer of, say, 5p in the ? for the debt, security and the shares and negotiate from there. Sorry if you have updated this later in the thread. Yes its the only way that negotiations can start. Bad debts are any debt that cannot be repaid in full. An administrators first priority is to determine whether or not the business can be turned around to repay the debt over a period by whatever means he/she sees fit, which i still see as an option for them as apparently HMFC is self sufficient now. Administrators will have all the facts and figures i.e land value etc underscored before entering any negotiation so i do not believe 'talking them down' is an option. These points in a negotiation are usually very quickly established. UKIO or nominated board will be envloved without doubt. I think the negotiation will go something like this, "This is how much we want, can you oblige ?" - "No, ok then....goodbye" I cannot see a quick resolution unless either the administrators see a trading escape themselves or any potential bidder agrees with their valuation straight off. Just about every card is in the admins hands including time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Hunt Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 After reading the whole thread it seems people are assuming administrator and liquidator are the same thing! What is an Administrator? This is the name given to a licensed Insolvency Practitioner who is tasked with overseeing the administration of the company which is the process by which it is aimed to rescue the company as a going concern. This is in strict contrast to a liquidator who sole purpose to to turn all assets into cash. Schedule B of the Insolvency Act 1986 deals solely with administration, the office holder's remit and the governing principles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Footballfirst Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 After reading the whole thread it seems people are assuming administrator and liquidator are the same thing! What is an Administrator? This is the name given to a licensed Insolvency Practitioner who is tasked with overseeing the administration of the company which is the process by which it is aimed to rescue the company as a going concern. This is in strict contrast to a liquidator who sole purpose to to turn all assets into cash. Schedule B of the Insolvency Act 1986 deals solely with administration, the office holder's remit and the governing principles. The Lithuanians appear to use the term "administrator" for both the functions that we use "administrator" and "liquidator". It's their jurisdiction so they can call themselves what they want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snake Plissken Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 So basically, this could be good news depending on who the new owners are? If it's someone with our best interests at heart, we've just slashed a very large part of our debt and maybe, depending on the other part of it, we're off the hook completely. Of course if it's someone out to grab a quick buck, we're right back in the shit. Imagine if we get out of this debt free, I fear our neighbours will combust with seethe. When I say 'fear', I really mean 'hope'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMaganator Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 So basically, this could be good news depending on who the new owners are? If it's someone with our best interests at heart, we've just slashed a very large part of our debt and maybe, depending on the other part of it, we're off the hook completely. Of course if it's someone out to grab a quick buck, we're right back in the shit. Imagine if we get out of this debt free, I fear our neighbours will combust with seethe. When I say 'fear', I really mean 'hope'. That's what I took from one of FFs posts too. Potentially Massone or A N Other could get the club dirt cheap & then we'd be in the hole to them for the debt and whatever interest they'd charge on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 To be fair that could be applied to the global banking industry as we've seen over the last 5 years. Exactly and we know virtually zero re why and how it happened and who was responsible. The guys at the top of the banks have been fired but they were not the real culprits merely the media's fall guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Exactly and we know virtually zero re why and how it happened and who was responsible. The guys at the top of the banks have been fired but they were not the real culprits merely the media's fall guys. You don't think it was the fault of the guys at the top of the banks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soonbe110 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 You don't think it was the fault of the guys at the top of the banks? Not entirely and certainly not as much as the media would have us believe. Did Fred personally authorise every loan that RBS gave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Not entirely and certainly not as much as the media would have us believe. Did Fred personally authorise every loan that RBS gave? I think it was the fault of some more powerful bankers at some more powerful banks than Fred and RBS, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 I think it was the fault of some more powerful bankers at some more powerful banks than Fred and RBS, personally. There were not many of them in the world At the time, Rbs were top 2/3.. Fred created the culture, aggressive boom and bust profit at all cost... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bilel Mohsni Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 There were not many of them in the world At the time, Rbs were top 2/3.. Fred created the culture, aggressive boom and bust profit at all cost... I was thinking more about the top boys who control the entire market. Federal reserve, Bank of England, the equivalents of them in other countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUTOL Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Exactly and we know virtually zero re why and how it happened and who was responsible. The guys at the top of the banks have been fired but they were not the real culprits merely the media's fall guys. A lot, or rather, an awful lot of the blame lies with the 'ratings' companies that approved the subprime loan loan packages/investments. But they rarely get a mention, never mind any of the blame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jambogjh Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Statement on official website. Club welcomes today's positive statement made by bank's administrator. Heart of Midlothian Football Club (Hearts) today welcomes the news that the administrator for Ukio Bankas is keen to work with the club to reach a suitable solution that can satisfy the requirement to meet achievable returns for creditors of the Lithuanian-based bank, while also protecting the business operations and future sale prospects of the club. The bank's official administrator, Gintaras Adomonis, made the announcement earlier today and welcoming the development, Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas said: "We are in regular dialogue with the administrator of Ukio Bankas and, as a result, we know that the club's interests are being very well treated. "Our intention is to maintain this positive dialogue with a view to ensuring a suitable resolution relating to the business interests that link both the football club and the bank in administration." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 There were not many of them in the world At the time, Rbs were top 2/3.. Fred created the culture, aggressive boom and bust profit at all cost... It was actually the disastrous acquisition of the bad bits of ABN Amro which sunk RBS. Fred's vanity project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kram Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Can someone just clarify (maybe FF) ukio are being liquidated therefore there is no attempt to keep them going. The guy in charge will be looking for the best bid available in a lump sum. For that you basically get Tynecastle and what looks like 30% of the business (or shares). Is that correct? Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 4 Beta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfstar Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Can someone just clarify (maybe FF) ukio are being liquidated therefore there is no attempt to keep them going. The guy in charge will be looking for the best bid available in a lump sum. For that you basically get Tynecastle and what looks like 30% of the business (or shares). Is that correct? Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 4 Beta This is how I understand it. Whoever owns this then has the driving seat for owning all of hearts, or do a rangers and start again. I really hope the federation has the means to purchase the stadium as they will be the only group with the best interests being 'hearts' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingantti1874 Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It was actually the disastrous acquisition of the bad bits of ABN Amro which sunk RBS. Fred's vanity project. It was the straw that broke the camels back, and it was a mess, still working in Amsterdam was pretty cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davieholt Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 It was the straw that broke the camels back, and it was a mess, still working in Amsterdam was pretty cool It's an ill wind etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Craig_ Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 The bank's official administrator, Gintaras Adomonis, made the announcement earlier today and welcoming the development, Hearts director Sergejus Fedotovas said: "We are in regular dialogue with the administrator of Ukio Bankas and, as a result, we know that the club's interests are being very well treated. MAD GINTY OOT!!1! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy T Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Any financial wiz kids clarify - Is it possible that the UKIO admins/liquidators will effectively take Hearts from UBIG as part of the debt repayment, then effectively prop Hearts up with at least the cash to pay the rest of the small tax bill and player wages while they look for a suitable buyer. Part of the asking price will be the repayment of that money they used to keep us going plus some sort of 10p in the ? deal on the entire 25m debt plus an agreed amount for Tynie? If this is possible how will the SPFL (or whatever they are called today) view this - will it be classed as Admin ?? Or I'm I just a delusional Yam (Copyright Hibs.net) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gasman Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 Any financial wiz kids clarify - Is it possible that the UKIO admins/liquidators will effectively take Hearts from UBIG as part of the debt repayment, then effectively prop Hearts up with at least the cash to pay the rest of the small tax bill and player wages while they look for a suitable buyer. Part of the asking price will be the repayment of that money they used to keep us going plus some sort of 10p in the ? deal on the entire 25m debt plus an agreed amount for Tynie? If this is possible how will the SPFL (or whatever they are called today) view this - will it be classed as Admin ?? Or I'm I just a delusional Yam (Copyright Hibs.net) I think the first part is exactly what will happen, but I don't think there's any chance of them sticking a penny in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuart McNeill Posted June 13, 2013 Share Posted June 13, 2013 http://www.heartsfc.co.uk/articles/20130308/be-part-of-edinburghs-heartbeat_2257176_3101469 So with this being posted. Is this in us now in the brown stuff. With a possible fire sale on the cards, I think we're screwed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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